Realizing that I'm VERY susceptible to BPD traits

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey guys,

I recently had a girl I was dating who I was really into disappear on me, and it's really gotten to me. I've already posted about this so I won't go into too much detail. It's been over a month since we last spoke but I'm still not fully over it. What I've realized is that she seemed to have a lot of traits that reminded me of my uBPDx, and I apparently just fall for this stuff every time.

Something I've been wondering... .It seems like this girl was never really sure about me, yet I still got the idealization treatment. Is that the norm with BPD? To string multiple guys along in the early stages, yet idealize each one?

It's possible she has a different disorder entirely, but something is definitely up with this girl. I guess this might be kind of messed up, but something I find oddly therapeutic is to try to kind of armchair diagnose a persons issues. It's like it helps me to realize that a healthy relationship was never going to come from dating this person.

She seems to have the following symptoms:

• Idealization - crazy amount of compliments, after we first met in person told me that I was "exactly what (she) hoped I would look like" (very similar to things I'd only ever heard from my uBPDx).



• Possibly mirroring - We had a lot in common that I don't think she could have made up, but I think she played up some of it. She had a lot in common with men in general, and I wonder if that's partly from mirroring the interests of her exes.



• Impulsive/Risk taking behavior - Getting into a car with a relative stranger on a first date and being very sexually aggressive, inviting a guy over for sex after a second date (sex didn't happen because she fell asleep right after we got to her place), driving very fast while buzzed, quit her job without having another lined up (then quickly got another but is strongly considering a total career change), bad spending habits, etc.



• Black/white thinking - I did nothing to deserve being ghosted, and she made it clear she was very into me on our two dates. Only other time I felt a girls feelings seem to change so quickly the morning after a good night was with my uBPDx.



• Fear of abandonment? - When she invited me back to her place after our second date I explained that I had to be somewhere in the morning, so I asked if she would be ok with it if I stayed a while and then slept at home so I could be ready to go in the morning. She said that's totally fine and we went to her place, and I ended up staying the night because when we got to her place she immediately passed out on the couch and I didn't want to leave without saying goodbye. When she finally woke up at 6am she angrily asked "are you seriously going home right now?" and then seemed kind of off when we got up in the morning.

Anyway, I really feel like an idiot for falling for this girl. There's a part of me that's still stupidly hoping she'll eventually text me and apologize, and want to go out again, but the rational part of me knows there's almost no chance of that happening, and that if it did I'd be an idiot to even respond to her. I think the reason I'm not over it is that my brain just can't reconcile the fact that the best first two dates of my life led to the girl disappearing for no apparent reason. I knew this girl for about 4 months in total and really thought we would end up as good friends at a minimum.

I've been on 4 first dates since, and they all seem to be healthy people. And I find that I'm really not that interested in any of them. I'm really just stuck on how much I liked this girls personality, and how great it seemed to be to finally date someone I felt I had almost everything in common with... .

[cleverusername]

Hey guys,

I recently had a girl I was dating who I was really into disappear on me, and it's really gotten to me. I've already posted about this so I won't go into too much detail. It's been over a month since we last spoke but I'm still not fully over it. What I've realized is that she seemed to have a lot of traits that reminded me of my uBPDx, and I apparently just fall for this stuff every time.

Something I've been wondering... .It seems like this girl was never really sure about me, yet I still got the idealization treatment. Is that the norm with BPD? To string multiple guys along in the early stages, yet idealize each one?

It's possible she has a different disorder entirely, but something is definitely up with this girl. I guess this might be kind of messed up, but something I find oddly therapeutic is to try to kind of armchair diagnose a persons issues. It's like it helps me to realize that a healthy relationship was never going to come from dating this person.

She seems to have the following symptoms:

• Idealization - crazy amount of compliments, after we first met in person told me that I was "exactly what (she) hoped I would look like" (very similar to things I'd only ever heard from my uBPDx).



• Possibly mirroring - We had a lot in common that I don't think she could have made up, but I think she played up some of it. She had a lot in common with men in general, and I wonder if that's partly from mirroring the interests of her exes.



• Impulsive/Risk taking behavior - Getting into a car with a relative stranger on a first date and being very sexually aggressive, inviting a guy over for sex after a second date (sex didn't happen because she fell asleep right after we got to her place), driving very fast while buzzed, quit her job without having another lined up (then quickly got another but is strongly considering a total career change), bad spending habits, etc.



• Black/white thinking - I did nothing to deserve being ghosted, and she made it clear she was very into me on our two dates. Only other time I felt a girls feelings seem to change so quickly the morning after a good night was with my uBPDx.



• Fear of abandonment? - When she invited me back to her place after our second date I explained that I had to be somewhere in the morning, so I asked if she would be ok with it if I stayed a while and then slept at home so I could be ready to go in the morning. She said that's totally fine and we went to her place, and I ended up staying the night because when we got to her place she immediately passed out on the couch and I didn't want to leave without saying goodbye. When she finally woke up at 6am she angrily asked "are you seriously going home right now?" and then seemed kind of off when we got up in the morning.

Anyway, I really feel like an idiot for falling for this girl. There's a part of me that's still stupidly hoping she'll eventually text me and apologize, and want to go out again, but the rational part of me knows there's almost no chance of that happening, and that if it did I'd be an idiot to even respond to her. I think the reason I'm not over it is that my brain just can't reconcile the fact that the best first two dates of my life led to the girl disappearing for no apparent reason. I knew this girl for about 4 months in total and really thought we would end up as good friends at a minimum.

I've been on 4 first dates since, and they all seem to be healthy people. And I find that I'm really not that interested in any of them. I'm really just stuck on how much I liked this girls personality, and how great it seemed to be to finally date someone I felt I had almost everything in common with... .

[eeks]

Hi cleverusername,

Some people find it helpful to investigate into their FOO history, to understand why they might be attracted to certain traits in a partner, even if those traits lead to pain and disappointment in the end.  It's not useful to just go "ok, I am like this because my mother and father treated me this way, the end", you have to make the emotional link, and one of the ways to do that is to see what unmet needs the emotions are pointing to, and find more effective ways of getting those needs met (either as a single person or in a relationship). 

What do you think the draw is for you about the idealization, impulsivity, etc.?  What's there for you that seems to be missing in the "healthier" women?

eeks

[cleverusername]

The thing is, I don't feel like the reason I'm attracted to these types is due to some sort of unmet emotional need. I could be wrong, but I just find that these types are so much more interesting to interact with. I don't know how to explain it. This girl (and my uBPDx) just... .had a charisma that I find that healthy girls can't seem to match. It somehow even transcended our early text conversations. Before meeting both I knew we'd have a great time on our first dates, and I was completely right.

There's also an excitement that these girls seem to bring. I'm in my late 20's and I really haven't done much of that fun sort of trouble making in my life, and I think there's part of me that wants to experience that before I get old and lame. Nothing illegal or anything... .Just as a stupid example that you'd see in a movie, I want the type of girl who would persuade me to go skinny dipping in a neighbors pool with them, that sort of thing I guess, haha.

I think these crazy girls get me out of my comfort zone in a way, and their risk taking behavior ends up feeling exciting and refreshing. I guess I feel that I'm getting a bit boring and want someone who is going to get me out of my comfort zone and get me to take more risks, do more exciting things, etc.

Also, when I go out on a first date with a girl, for the most part I end up totally unsure if I want to see them again. I'm just kind of "meh" about them. I think part of the problem may be that there's this feeling that I really don't know them well, and I probably won't for a pretty long time. And while that's okay and probably for the best, it just doesn't seem to keep my attention.

It's like when dating a healthy person there's this wall to get through before things get fun. For instance, with the girls I date who really capture my attention and then wind up seeming unhealthy, they seem comfortable with showing the fun side of their personality on the first date... .their mannerisms, quirks, crazy/entertaining stories, etc, that you usually only learn about after dating someone for a couple months.

Maybe my problem is a lack of patience in getting to know someone? One thing that I've realized is that I'm very afraid of dating someone for too long and getting close enough to hurt them when I'm not sure I'm 100% into them. And without them being the type that can really get my attention quickly (the disordered type apparently), I end up losing interest. I'm kind of going through this now. I have a third date coming up Friday and so far I know my interest level is way lower than hers, and it's really not a good feeling... .

[Grey Kitty]

There's also an excitement that these girls seem to bring. I'm in my late 20's and I really haven't done much of that fun sort of trouble making in my life, and I think there's part of me that wants to experience that before I get old and lame. Nothing illegal or anything... .Just as a stupid example that you'd see in a movie, I want the type of girl who would persuade me to go skinny dipping in a neighbors pool with them, that sort of thing I guess, haha.

I think these crazy girls get me out of my comfort zone in a way, and their risk taking behavior ends up feeling exciting and refreshing. I guess I feel that I'm getting a bit boring and want someone who is going to get me out of my comfort zone and get me to take more risks, do more exciting things, etc.

You know, I kinda feel for you on that one--I'm a bit conservative on the risk-taking side of things, and like the idea of somebody nudging me in that direction. But then again I'm in my late 40s, so I've had a bit more time to get comfortable in my own skin that way, I guess.

I think that it would be far healthier for you to look for ways you can draw yourself out of your "boring" shell and do things that excite you... .without needing a woman to yank you out there.

It's like when dating a healthy person there's this wall to get through before things get fun. For instance, with the girls I date who really capture my attention and then wind up seeming unhealthy, they seem comfortable with showing the fun side of their personality on the first date... .their mannerisms, quirks, crazy/entertaining stories, etc, that you usually only learn about after dating someone for a couple months.

There is a fine line there--healthy boundaries mean not opening up their entire life to you after one date, because they really can't know you well enough to trust you that much yet. And unhealthy boundaries show up in other (and much worse!) ways as well.

One thought is that perhaps if you share more about yourself and your interesting/quirky/personal side semi-slowly with healthy women, they may well be comfortable doing the same with you.

That said, don't keep dating women you find uninteresting just because they seem less messed up.

[starshine]

Thank you for this conversation.   I also am VERY attracted to people with BPD traits- especially boundary busting and idealization.  Goodness, it's an intoxifying combination. 

I just spent the last couple evenings getting to know someone better, someone I have know very casually for about 15 years.  He's always been very complimentary to me over the years, and we ran into each other at a concert on Friday.   We exchanged a couple texts on Saturday morning, and ran into each other at another concert on Saturday evening.  We ended up going out to a dance club and then for a late night meal to keep the incredible conversation going.  It was super fun.  As we parted ways in the parking lot he gave me a hug and a kiss that I responded to- his kiss matched my style, so great.   We sent a couple texts yesterday, his was first, which I dig.   That sort of communication matters to me.   We agreed that we would like to explore the chemistry we feel, so when he called last night to swing over for a visit I eagerly invited him by.  We talked and kissed, I stated some boundaries (no below the belt explorations for my body, I wanted to take that slower).  He ended up spending the night, as we were up until 2am, and we continued to kiss and talk.  He respected my no below the belt boundary, though told me it was ok if I wanted to explore further with him. 

We talked a lot about ourselves, our lives.  We are both grown, I'm 48 he's 62.  It felt like he respected my boundaries, although he playfully pushed them and I playfully would determine if it was one I wanted to hold onto or allow to fall.  The challenge for both of us is that we are both ready to enjoy a sexual relationship, but we also want to be smart and not hurt ourselves and each other. 

That being said, he asked me if I had ever experienced anything like this, that felt so comfortable and fun so quickly.   I had to say yes, my last relationship.   He asked me how long it lasted and if it was good.  I told him 5 years, and though good and powerful things came from that relationship if I could go back in time I would choose not to experience any of it, since it has ended in such a painful way for me.  That being said, I am having issues with myself in all this- damn, I WANT it.  I want handsome older man candy.  I want to rush this just as much as I want to be smart and careful.   

Well, I suppose the good thing is that we are both really busy with our own lives, so the intense fun of NRE will have plenty of time to simmer.   I'm not the type of woman to just drop by his place and I don't see him as being the type to drop over unannounced or without a plan either.

[Grey Kitty]

Hi starshine,

You've got an interesting situation there. Because you have known him for a 15 years you do have good reason to trust him more, and could jump in faster more safely than with a new person you just met on a dating site or at a bar or something.

I'm also wondering about what the consequences of going how far or how fast would really be?

I remember an essay I read once about "the other safe sex question", which suggested you have a conversation along the lines of "If we have sex now, what will it mean to you?"

The idea being that if one person thinks "I'm sex positive, sex is fun, and I'd like to try it with you, to see if it is as fun with you as I hope it will be... .no more expectations." and the other person thinks "This is a critical step toward a life-long relationship" then somebody is probably going to be disappointed and brokenhearted.

From what you say, you clearly have sexual chemistry and interest. Can you run with that and see where it goes? Some people are good with (relatively) casual sex. Are you?

Or are you going to immediately get attached and involved if the sex is good, no matter what other red flags and concerns pop up?

Taking it slowly is about keeping yourself safe... .and you know where your risk areas are; I don't. (I personally would be willing to run with something casual with a friend I respected, even if I knew it was going to be an occasional or perhaps never repeated thing. But that doesn't mean it is a good idea for YOU.)

Thank you for this conversation.   I also am VERY attracted to people with BPD traits- especially boundary busting and idealization.  Goodness, it's an intoxifying combination. 

So what about other such   signs?

Playfully pushing your limits in a make-out session where you are both clearly having fun, and he's respectful of your limits when you mean them doesn't sound like it *has* to be boundary busting behavior, although it is one tiny hint in that direction.

There are tons of other possible signs of bad boundaries, either oversharing, or little controlling things. They tend to start kinda small, and build to larger things or bigger patterns of them.

Is this guy idealizing you?

Is he doing anything concerning besides kissing really well? [by your standards]

[starshine]

Hi Grey Kitty, thanks for your thoughtful response. 

Although we have known each other for a long time it has always been very casual public meetings- either of our old retail sales jobs, farmers markets, concerts, etc.  Nothing where we have just hung out and chatted it up.  We spent a couple evenings talking and I really felt he was idealizing me.  He kept telling me how much light was in my eyes, how beautiful I am, how smart I am.  I believe all those things are true, but he said them more than once, which was kind of annoying and felt like a red flag. 

What could be the consequences of jumping in quickly?  So, I worry that maybe he's nutty.  I worry that I'll really like him.  Or that I won't.  I just worry.  I pushed it myself and had "the sex talk" with him- I have hsv and figured if he was going to advocate for some sexy time that he needed to be informed.  I think he still would have had sex with me had I not told him I wanted him to do a little reading and make a really informed choice.  I like the "other safe sex conversation" that you suggested.  I made a note of it on my phone so I can integrate that into our future conversation. 

We have exchanged a few texts over the last few days, the first day being full of descriptive language and ramblings.  The next day was short but sweet, telling me how much he enjoyed something specific I did in our hot makeout session.  By the 3rd day he wasn't really using personal pronouns "went out to the store".  I kind of felt, through his diminishing use of language, that he was withdrawing from the situation in a creating distance kind of way. 

I just want to say that I know this is crazy talk, because I really don't know him well enough to determine what his communication style is like.  I blame it on the fact that until today I hadn't washed the sheets we had rolled around in and I could smell/sense him in my bed still.  Ah, Beltane's fires... . 

So, me being me who likes clarification and communication, sent him a text saying I noticed a change in his tone and guessed that he wasn't interested in pursuing something sexual with me, and that was ok.  I was just reaching out so things wouldn't be weird between us in the future and wished him the best of luck.     WOW.  So, as I watch myself throw red flags all over the playing field... . 

Or maybe I didn't throw red flags.  I don't know.  Anyways, he responded with a very long text.  Kind of all over- but he covered a lot of ground and really wants to be in the conversation.  He wants to expand our friendship.  He's interested in being my lover, but has to learn more about hsv.  I am afraid he will say no to sex with me when he reads up on it, I completely understand. (Heck, had the guy who infected me given me the choice I wouldn't have chosen to have sex with him)  And of course, I won't sleep with him until he gets a full panel sti test. 

In the past I have had successful booty call relationships, but I generally do fall in love to some extent.  I can think of one person in particular that I had a 3 year booty call relationship with that we never did anything else, just sex.  He never met my kids, we never chatted on the phone, it wasn't like that.  We eventually went on one date and it never went anywhere else, it was boring.   I got into a relationship with my last personality disordered lover who I was with for 5 years.  I've been single for 4 1/2 years.  Only gone on a few dates, none of those led to anything.  The only sex I've had has been and handful of times with an old friend who I trust it not to go anywhere, and that still was a couple years ago.

I'm worried I might get attached, just because I'm so lonely in my heart.  I live a very fulfilling life at this point.  My work is great, I go out every weekend, I take really great care of my health.  I can almost not have time for a big relationship.  I'm going to pitch it to him that if we choose to move forward we keep it light, maybe referring to ourselves as playmates.  More than friends, not sure what else to call it that doesn't imply baggage. 

So, to answer your final question, no he has done nothing else other than being a fantastic kisser on a whirlwind weekend romance.  He is out of town over the weekend, so I don't expect to hear from him until Sunday or Monday.   

[Grey Kitty]

starshine, it sounds like taking things slowly would be the conservative thing to do for you this time 'round.

People with poor boundaries will show them in fairly short order.

Still one incident with questionable boundaries isn't a big deal (like your freaked out text)... .pay attention, and if it is a real issue, there will be more and worse versions of it continuing regularly.

But most of you doesn't seem to really want to wait very much. Hard to figure out how to balance it... .good luck!