I got a text

[Tomacini]

10 days ago i went nc telling my exBPDgf that i cannot be friends with her because it's too soon and its too difficult for me to be around her. But I told her she was welcome to contact me if she wanted to talk about us and how we can improve as a couple.

10 days of dead silence and then suddenly at 0.40 am 2 texts:

- can we talk when youre back home (i'm on holiday)

- i tried my best not to contact you

I texted back the next day that this was ok and we chatted a bit. We agreed to meet on sunday... .and to be honest, i don't know what to expect... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Tomacini, How do you see this playing out?  What are your hopes/expectations?  Are you interested in giving it another try with her?

LuckyJim

[Tomacini]

Honestly i dont know yet... .hell i dont even know what to make of those texts... .

[Grey Kitty]

Never mind what she wants or means... .for now... .what about you--what do you want? Consider the possibilities:

A "closure" conversation about what wasn't working.

Being civil, but not close.

Being friends.

Jumping back into the relationship you had.

Trying to re-start the relationship, but with differences. [I don't mean with her being nicer/less abusive; I mean more structural differences, perhaps living arrangements, etc.]

Which are of interest to you?

Perhaps you are interested but not ready yet for some of them?

[Survivingher]

 I read back through your past posts.  seems like she is hot and cold since late March.  you always come away burnt after meeting with her and interacting with her.  maybe she also suffers from NPD and is trying to keep you as a backup.  personally I would make her come to you. come to your house.  put the burden on her.  if she is unwilling to do that, then her interest level isn't very high.  ask her to do that and to talk 2x.  if she refuses, then either go no contact or simply say hi and cut the conversation short and say you gotta run.  don't ever talk about the relationship.  she will start chasing you.   eventually if and when you get her back, remember the attitude that you had that won her back.  at the end of the day, youll probably discover that you are in love with the idea of her instead of her.  relationships should be more effortless than this.  you will always be wondering who she is texting and what she is thinking.  is it worth it?   im a better coach than a player though.  I miss the ___ outta my girl, even though she was baaaaad news.  so don't beat yourself up to bad

[livednlearned]

Hi Tomacini,

People miss each other after being involved with each other, whether BPD or not. She may want some validation from you, briefly. She may feel sad about the way things ended, and has trouble figuring out how to make things better (without getting involved again).

Do you want to talk about the relationship again? If she brings it up, do you have a plan for what you will do next?

Boundaries are important in BPD relationships, whether they are on the rocks or not.

She sounds like someone who does not want to hurt your feelings (BPD makes this difficult for her). The more confident and healthy you are when you meet with her, the more likely she can relax (she may feel less shame about her ability to hurt you).

This means setting aside any neediness or clinginess, and just have a nice time with her. If your boundary is to not discuss the relationship, then stick to that boundary. She may not like it; she will respect it if you are firm about it.

[Tomacini]

So she called me up with a lame excuse: i had a missed phone call of a private number and i thought it was you.

Anyway: 2 weeks ago i said i couldnt be fiends with her and not to contact me again. She could contact me if she wanted to talk about more than friendship.

We talked a bit on the phone and she said her standpoint on the relationship hadnt changed. We've had too many discussions and thats not normal in the beginning of a relationship. But she also found it strange not to hear from me anymore and expressed the wish to be friends. She also agreed to meet up this weekend and now has her child all weekend and doesnt want to talk when she has her child.

I said that being friends is too diffcicult for me. She said she will call me back tomorrow but i'm feeling like she is not respecting my boundaries. I clearly stated no friends and now 2 weeks later she's there with the same request.

Tomorrow I will have to tell her that this is unacceptable to me and go back to no contact.

It sucks but i have to

[Survivingher]

she found it strange not to hear from you anymore... .she expected you to chase her and was confused why she didn't.  man these girls are hard to date.    I was gonna break down and text mine tonite, but now im thinking I wont.  it just starts the pain all over again.  sorry your going through this. 

[Tomacini]

Believe me, when i heard her on the phone she was her typical uninterested self, not willing to compromise. She said i'll call you back tomorrow but i'm guarding my boundaries: no friendship. End of story

Oh yeah and suddenly it isnt possible anymore to meet up this weekend. I asked: dont you find it hard to see me. She said: not really, i've turned the switch in my head and its not like we're going to see eacht other every week.

Look i can totally understand why she wants me in her life: we work in the same branch and ive been in it for much longer than she is so i could always give her advise on things. I was always there for her to listen to her.

But what she has to offer is just not good enough... .

[Survivingher]

I sent you a pm

[Tomacini]

Sent you a reply :-)

What's more: i found myself constantly wondering what she meant with those texts. I mean i was in obsessive mode back again. I do not want this and the only way to stop this is to cut contact. Then i don't have to wonder what she means, when she will call etc... .

[Survivingher]

that's true.  maybe I should block her.  that way I don't have to wonder about if and when she will call.   a friend of mine is in middle of divorce from his BPD and and its been going on for nearly a year.  now they are like a month from finalizing and she just called him and told him she loves him and wants to work it out.  its really messing with him. its like they just have to torture us.  its a sick game.  what worries me is that my ex still gets texts and emails from boyfriends from 5 years ago that want back.  God help me.  I cannot/will not be one of those guys!.  no wonder she feels entitled.   

[Lucky Jim]

Tomorrow I will have to tell her that this is unacceptable to me and go back to no contact.

It sucks but i have to

Hey Tomacini, Agree, you have to do it, in order to move forward; otherwise, you will be back on the roller coaster.  LJ

[livednlearned]

Tomacini,

people with BPD don't have boundaries, so it's up to us to provide them. It sounds like she has been fairly consistent in all of this by telling you she is only down for friendship, that's it.

The person who is fluctuating here is you, and it only takes a text from her to make you feel hopeful.

If she is BPD, then she won't be very good at processing or resolving past grief. She won't want to or know how to talk about it, and so if you want this relationship to work out, you have to give her a reason to believe that you're the original awesome guy she first fell in love with. She doesn't want to *go there* in terms of talking about things, she's looking forward full steam.

If your ultimatum is that she has to be all in or nothing, and that isn't ok (which is fine, by the way), then this is a stand off in which you are playing a part.

It's ok, it's also good to acknowledge your role.

[Tomacini]

Well livednlearned, you've opened my eyes, really.

Maybe i'm the one thats inconcistent by replying to her texts.

What do you mean by: she's looking forward full steam? Am i being too needy here? Or is giving an ultimatum not a good idea. You know, I still like her and wantvthings to work out. I'm just not sure if i can take all the waiting anymore... .

[JQ]

Hi Tomacini & Survivingher,

Both your stories are similar to so many on these forums after i read them. You get some good guidance from LNL & LJ 

With both of your stories and you pointing out Tomacini that you want to go NC for the betterment of your mental & physical health by moving forward on your journey might you two be posting on the wrong board of "Saving a relationship" vise "etaching from Wounds" or maybe " Deciding or conflicted"?

What are you thoughts LNL & LJ?  Just throwing something out there after reading this thread ... .

J

[Tomacini]

I told her on the phone that i couldnt be friends. She wanted to talk in person but is not making an effort to do so. So i had to tell her on the phone.

And yes of course i get my hopes up when she sends a message. Because i said: contact me ONLY if you want to talk about something more than friendship. So when you get a text: lets talk, you assume its to talk about that. Turns out she wants to talk about friendship.

Did i not make myself clear to her? To me it seemed she crossed my boundary be again asking to be friends

[Grey Kitty]

Did i not make myself clear to her? To me it seemed she crossed my boundary be again asking to be friends

It isn't her job to stay inside your boundaries.

It is your job to protect your boundaries.

That said... .when it comes to being friends with your ex (BPD or not), here is my take on that idea:

When you are still hoping for reconciliation and still healing from the break, you aren't ready to be friends--it isn't safe for you. So keep enough distance to keep yourself safe, and let yourself heal.

Allow this to take as long as it will take... .perhaps months. You will know when you are no longer hoping she will take you back and reconcile/recycle/etc.

Then you can reach out to her... .or be receptive when she's reaching out to you.

For now... .if you don't want this, enforce your boundaries about contacting yourself.

Don't talk call her. Don't answer her calls. Don't see her in person. If you do need to tell her anything, do it in text or email. (You probably shouldn't)

If you get too much text/email from her, ask her to stop, and if she doesn't, block her. Q: What is too much? A: Depends how much it hurts or bothers you.

[Tomacini]

Ugh it's like they never stop: she just sent me a text: ok i respect your decision. Have a nice weekend.

Like nothing happened and we resume talking on monday

[livednlearned]

GK summed it up really well.

What do you mean by: she's looking forward full steam? Am i being too needy here? Or is giving an ultimatum not a good idea. You know, I still like her and wantvthings to work out. I'm just not sure if i can take all the waiting anymore... .

She does not seem interested in talking or processing the past with you, period. Whatever situation she has going right now is working for her and she has no reason (at the moment) to change that. Whatever happened between the two of you, she is content to have you join her in her present reality without the baggage (ie. just be friends).

It seems like you have both a boundary (protect yourself with no contact) and a rule (only contact you if she wants a relationship). The boundary is going to work as long as you are asserting it (ie I'm not going to answer her texts or calls). If you expect her (or others for that matter) to do the work of respecting your boundaries for you, be prepared to be disappointed! It's one of the best lessons to learn here, that it's our job to protect our boundaries. If you come from a dysfunctional home where boundaries were blurry, this work will probably feel quite challenging at first.

The rule, on the other hand, isn't going to work because you are assuming it (and you) can control her behavior. Plus, ultimatums are generally something used as a last resort, OR they are something that have pretty bad consequences attached. The former comes from a place of weakness and the latter will appear weak if there are no consequences. Not to mention that ultimatums can feel like coercion and control, and no one likes to feel coerced or controlled.

From her behavior, my guess is that she reaches out when she is seeking some validation, however briefly. This might explain why she says something (let's talk) and doesn't follow up.

[Tomacini]

Thank you.

How do i give her this validation then? Just by answering her texts? Does this give her the signal that i'm still interested?

Also i was wondering how a person can become like this? Is it also a result from us nons not having boundaries?

[Grey Kitty]

How do i give her this validation then? Just by answering her texts? Does this give her the signal that i'm still interested?

If you don't want to be "just friends" with her, and that is all she is offering... .then you cannot validate her feelings, because that is engaging with her, and not giving you a chance to heal from the breakup.

This is about YOUR feelings, not hers.

Also i was wondering how a person can become like this? Is it also a result from us nons not having boundaries?

If you take two people in a relationship, if either one of them has strong healthy boundaries, a lot of this stuff doesn't happen. pwBPD pretty much always have utterly TERRIBLE boundaries. And generally non's who get involved with them don't have good ones either.

You can work on your own boundaries. It will do you a lot of good.

[patientandclear]

I don't see Tomacini being inconsistent. When someone reaches out to you having been told "I don't want to do a friendship but let me know if you want to explore something more," and the recipient of that message then gets in touch, it is reasonable to think that may mean she wants or is willing to meet him in his terms. Turns out, not, but him responding to find out is not vascillating. She too is entitled to change her mind and for all he knew, she had. (I was guessing not from her initial "I'm sorry I tried not to contact you".

I am not getting how he is "playing a part" with his "ultimatum." He set a boundary, not an ultimatum. The "friends" boundary, as I learned myself, is uniquely tough to enforce. How do you find out if your BPD person is open to something more than friends without talking? By the time you've talked with no pressure etc as often advised here, nothing heavy, allow some subject matter other than the r/ship (because who wants to talk only about the r/ship) ... .You've de facto already given what the pwBPD may prefer, which is an ambiguous intimate connection without it being on terms that work for you.

Tomacini, I think you are handling this well. I see the danger for you being that setting an important boundary as you did and then letting it slide is a ton of intermittent reinforcement for her to keep trying to get you on "friends" terms. So unless you change your mind on friends, it's now up to you to mean what you said. For me that is tough because I know very well that it feels like control to my person wBPD, that things optimally grow from a slow start, that you have to repair from a base of real interaction ... .It's sort of a rock and a hard place. It's a confusing situation because it is genuinely hard to find a place of integrity that is pro-relationship but also respects your own (completely reasonable) limits.

All I can say, if you ARE communicating, is--be as open and kind about your needs and the reason for them as possible, and try not to shame or guess what she is feeling or going to do. You do your part and then let her decide how she wants to respond.