BPD vs avoidant attachment

[Depression = 72% of members]

Ok, not sure if this is the right forum.

Anyway I was reading about attachment styles and it struck me that the fearful-avoidant attachment resembles BPD.

But surely there must be differences... .do any of you know what the differences are?

[Tomacini]

Ok, not sure if this is the right forum.

Anyway I was reading about attachment styles and it struck me that the fearful-avoidant attachment resembles BPD.

But surely there must be differences... .do any of you know what the differences are?

[WoundedBibi]

I'm sure it is the right forum    Can you elaborate a bit? In what way do they resemble in your opinion?

[Tomacini]

Not sure if i can post it but this is a great article:

https://jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/fearful-avoidant/

- the push pull

- scared of intimacy but at the same time longing for it

- neglect/abuse in early childhood

- chronic feelings of hollowness

- low self esteem

- under severe stress they show their true self which can be shocking for those who are close

Sounds a bit like BPD but less severe. I'm pretty sure someone with BPD has an avoindant attachment style but could it be that some people who are labelled BPD could just have this type of attacment style... .

[MapleBob]

Not sure if i can post it but this is a great article:

https://jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/fearful-avoidant/

- the push pull

- scared of intimacy but at the same time longing for it

- neglect/abuse in early childhood

- chronic feelings of hollowness

- low self esteem

- under severe stress they show their true self which can be shocking for those who are close

Sounds a bit like BPD but less severe. I'm pretty sure someone with BPD has an avoindant attachment style but could it be that some people who are labelled BPD could just have this type of attacment style... .

I remember reading something similar about "anxious" attachment style. Either of those could potentially describe pwBPD in their close, intimate relationships.

[Tomacini]

Well you have 4 attachment styles: secure, anxious pre occupied (codependants often), anxious avoidant and dismissive avoidant.

I truely believe that BPD have an anxious avoidant attachment style. But my point is: there must be a lot of people that have this attachment style without having BPD. It might just be that people with BPD traits are just anxious avoidant.

What also struck me that they have very low empathy and they only care about their own feelings. Often have difficulties expressing their own feelings or enter into a conversation about the relationship for the fear of engulfment.

This also applies to BPD and just makes me wonder if my exgf just had this attachment style rather than being a BPD.

Makes you wonder where you draw the line... .

[once removed]

but could it be that some people who are labelled BPD could just have this type of attacment style... .

yes. thats why as non professionals, our efforts to diagnose are dubious. there is, however, a very strong correlation between BPD and insecure attachment styles, particularly of the fearful variety.

Attachment Studies with Borderline Patients: A Review

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1857277/


"Nevertheless, every study concludes that there is a strong association between BPD and insecure attachment. The types of attachment found to be most characteristic of BPD subjects are unresolved, preoccupied, and fearful. In each of these attachment types, individuals demonstrate a longing for intimacy and—at the same time—concern about dependency and rejection. The high prevalence and severity of insecure attachments found in these adult samples support the central role of disturbed interpersonal relationships in clinical theories of BPD."

[steelwork]

Tomacini, what leads you to think it's either or?

[Tomacini]

Tomacini, what leads you to think it's either or?

Nono, not either or. I'm sure a person with BPD has a fearful avoidant attachment style. But does it also work the other way around whereby someone with this attachment style doesnt necessarily has to be diagnosed with BPD

[WoundedBibi]

It's a really interesting article and yes, my ex certainly is avoidant in his attachments, I have recently come to that insight. But that doesn't explain a lot of his other behaviour and personality.

The moodswings. They could be every few minutes from elated to depressed.

The need to regulate his emotions with booze and drugs.

Loosing jobs every 1.5 years tops because he can't deal with authority and he can't get he cannot have a relationship, a flirt, an affair, or lead on a subordinate.

Confusion about his sexuality.

Confusion about women and their sexuality.

And so on.

[steelwork]

Tomacini, what leads you to think it's either or?

Nono, not either or. I'm sure a person with BPD has a fearful avoidant attachment style. But does it also work the other way around whereby someone with this attachment style doesnt necessarily has to be diagnosed with BPD

I don't think so. What I mean is, I think here's were we get into the spectrum. I think it goes something like this:

insecure attachment style --> BPD traits --> BPD

With the higher categories including the latter but not vice versa.

So I imagine it would be pretty much impossible for someone with BPD traits to display secure attachment style, but not everyone with an insecure attachment style manifests with a personality disorder or even traits.

My I speak from personal experience (i.e. of myself)? I would not say that I have a secure attachment style, generally. There are historical FOO reasons for that, and it's something that can be improved, and I'm working on it.

I've seen patterns in my relationships that resemble BPD patterns--for example, fear of engulfment. But that pattern doesn't result (I think, I hope) in unmanageable behaviors like splitting and projection and the like. I don't think it qualifies as a BPD trait, but it does probably have something to do with my attachment style.

Now, say I did have BPD traits that have their roots in a fear of engulfment. That wouldn't mean I had a personality disorder.

So I think it's like that: the lower-order patterns are necessary for the higher-order patterns but not vice versa.

[steelwork]

Nono, not either or. I'm sure a person with BPD has a fearful avoidant attachment style. But does it also work the other way around whereby someone with this attachment style doesnt necessarily has to be diagnosed with BPD

I don't think so.

Oh--I read this as "does it work the other way around whereby someone with this attachment style necessarily has to be diagnosed with BPD?"

So I'm not sure what you're asking by "work the other way around."

[Confused108]

It's a really interesting article and yes, my ex certainly is avoidant in his attachments, I have recently come to that insight. But that doesn't explain a lot of his other behaviour and personality.

The moodswings. They could be every few minutes from elated to depressed.

The need to regulate his emotions with booze and drugs.

Loosing jobs every 1.5 years tops because he can't deal with authority and he can't get he cannot have a relationship, a flirt, an affair, or lead on a subordinate.

Confusion about his sexuality.

Confusion about women and their sexuality.

And so on.

BIG YES! Expect from what I know mine held down jobs  and now has her own buisness. But other then that Yes to all the above!

[HurtinNW]

This is fascinating.

I would say I definitely have anxious pre-occupied attachment. It is something to work on, for sure. My kids have healthy attachment and I'm glad I gave them that.

My ex was definitely avoidant. Fearful and dismissive both, I would term it more like reactive.

Which makes me also think of the similarities between BPD and RAD (reactive attachment disorder). I once fostered a nine-year-old girl with RAD. She was incapable of living in a family setting. She bounced in and out of psychiatric placements, because any degree of intimacy caused her to react so severely. Kids with reactive attachment disorder are so afraid of intimacy they will do everything they can to sabotage it. They make false allegations, lie, steal, and attack others.

It interests me all the overlaps between these disorders, and how many are rooted in the inability to attach to others. It's very sad. 

[WoundedBibi]

Yes... Makes me think of the (adopted) sister of an old boyfriend of mine. Looking back she had a lot of signs of BPD, and I'm pretty sure she had it. Drama, arguments, teen pregnancy, dropped out of school, worked in a massage salon... .the works. She was the black sheep and my intellectual artsy 'inlaws' had no clue what to do with her. At the time I tried to avoid her as I sensed there was something 'off' and I couldn't handle the behaviour and the moods and didn't want to either. I just didn't like her. I listened to my gut    She was in a home for the first 6 months of her life. Of course there were nurses there but not one primary caregiver for her to attach to.

[HurtinNW]

I don't know why I didn't connect the dots with my ex and what I know about children with attachment disorders. It's much the same. I think my ex is so convinced he is normal that is practically hypnotizing. He's developed a heck of a mask. When I was in his reality field I would become convinced too. But then he would take off the mask and show the disorder underneath. There is a profound lack of attachment to others.

[WoundedBibi]

I'm on a learning curve today... I now see why he chose his flying monkeys and why I don't like them; they are ALL avoidant...