Pathological lies, lies and do they know they are doing it?

[JerryRG]

My exBPDgf lied to me with such ease, she would tell me things about how she sung at a national football game and how she wrote songs that county singers later on put to music, and many other silly things, I can understand her need for validation but serious lies are wrong no matter what.

Then there was the lies about where she was and who she was with and then blaming me for lying when I didn't, do pwBPD always lie and do they even know they are lying and if they do why would they betray a loved ones trust this way?

My exgfs mother told me she would lie about anything and everything, I witnessed my ex lie to her family members with such ease it was shocking.

Can they just stop or control this? Do they lie to everyone?

I ask because I want to know if it was just me she had no respect for and how could our relationship or any relationship work when pwBPD behave this way? I know people will lie to family but to a trusted loved one? Your relationship partner?

Another thing I wanted to ask is my ex would sometimes walk around naked and show off but when we made love she would sometimes, often want to wear her clothes, especially not wanting to remove her top. She said she was self conscious but would bathe with me watching or drop her towel for me to see her naked, she had some strange ideas when it came to sex, as if she wanted it but felt it was a bad thing, then do a complete reversal and think sex was ok.

Very difficult to understand her, sex was wrong and hurtful and wrong then it was ok and normal.

[Herodias]

Not sure about her particular sex thing, but mine was into lots of weird sex... .main thing is usually they push you away when you want it. I know someone who had a BPD wife and she was hyper religious... .that was a whole other deal. They are all different there. I know someone who walked around naked in front of her kids... .I am talking college age in front of their girlfriends! Her ex-husband told me this.

I will say about the lies, yes, they know they are doing it. Mine was a compulsive ,pathological liar. He would lie when the truth fit better! I believe they do this for lots of different reason depending on the situation. Usually it is to make them look better, cover up for bad behavior (think toddler) or just to see if they can get one over on you... .That is the narcissist side. If you fall for it, it makes them feel better about themselves. My Husbands Mother said she can never believe a thing he said! Mine made up big lies, deaths in the family, told people at work I had breast cancer, told people he fought in war, told people he had an arsenal of weapons at home... .I was put into all kinds of awkward positions over the years. He lied on top of lies. They know it- they can compartmentalize and can usually remember what they say... .if they mess it up then they just gaslight you and make you feel like you have dementia. They are never wrong, never said it and you are just giving them a hard time. It's also a way to keep you confused... .in my case he never ever told me his correct work hours... this would enable him to cheat on me or do what ever he wanted. Sometimes he would come home early to try and catch me doing something. If I said" you are home early", he would say- "no, I told you I was done at this time... .you are getting Alzheimer's and don't remember". They know- they just see what they can get away with! You are the dumb one for letting them dupe you-in their eyes.  He always told me that he knew lying was bad and he wasn't going to do it anymore- but that was a lie! He can't stop. That's what part of their therapy is for - to help them stop that behavior if it is a problem.

[Ahoy]

I think you will find the lies come easy because most BPD's seem to lack a moral compass. Their innate version of right/wrong can be warped by their distorted sense of reality so they can justify telling you these things.

These are only my thoughts (who can REALLY see what's going on in a BPD mind) but I think the lies serve one of two purposes:

1. To cast off shame/guilt. For example when you are replaced and then the smear campaign starts against you, with her friends/family/whoever. They know they did something wrong (cheated, hid the fact about the replacement from you) but to admit doing something wrong potentially opens up their core-wounds, which of course they simply are not equipped to handle. Solution? Tell lies making you out to be a monster, feed into the victim complex and project these feelings on to you!

2. To gain validation/attention. Continuing on from 1., the lies fed to your replacement about you, her accomplishments, all help to entice her new partner into giving her love/attention/care feeding her narcissistic side and soothing her emotions.

I don't think the no moral compass thing exists because they don't know right from wrong, its just the need to 'feel good' or case of shame outweighs the importance of being truthful. Throw in the ability to distort reality when needed and it's a powerful mix!

I think I'm happy to admit now that I work in law enforcement. for 8 years I have dealt with some of the meanest, coldest and ruthless criminals who certainly have no morals. You know the best liar I have met during these 8 years was? My wife.

[JerryRG]

Thank you Herodias

I thought she had no respect for me so she just lied about whatever. I know she's lying to her new bf so she hasn't changed. She had little in the way of morality. Shoplifted and told me one time she probably wouldn't steal if or son was with her.

She did control our sex life, eventually cutting me off until we were married then telling me she wanted more. So confusing I am so glad I'm not in that hurricane of emotional madness.

I'm enjoying peace, took a long while to stop waiting for the next chaotic disaster to come around.

[JerryRG]

Thank you Ahoy

I finally grew numb to her lies and just stopped listening, great relationship.  And yes my exgf could find an excuse for anything she did, being a victim placed her in the perfect position to get away with murder. Lying about someone's character is assassination. I have no way to defend myself from her lies, and I'm certain she will continue lying just for the high and chaos.

[Notsurewhattothinkofthis]

Not sure about her particular sex thing, but mine was into lots of weird sex... .main thing is usually they push you away when you want it. I know someone who had a BPD wife and she was hyper religious... .that was a whole other deal. They are all different there. I know someone who walked around naked in front of her kids... .I am talking college age in front of their girlfriends! Her ex-husband told me this.

I will say about the lies, yes, they know they are doing it. Mine was a compulsive ,pathological liar. He would lie when the truth fit better! I believe they do this for lots of different reason depending on the situation. Usually it is to make them look better, cover up for bad behavior (think toddler) or just to see if they can get one over on you... .That is the narcissist side. If you fall for it, it makes them feel better about themselves. My Husbands Mother said she can never believe a thing he said! Mine made up big lies, deaths in the family, told people at work I had breast cancer, told people he fought in war, told people he had an arsenal of weapons at home... .I was put into all kinds of awkward positions over the years. He lied on top of lies. They know it- they can compartmentalize and can usually remember what they say... .if they mess it up then they just gaslight you and make you feel like you have dementia. They are never wrong, never said it and you are just giving them a hard time. It's also a way to keep you confused... .in my case he never ever told me his correct work hours... this would enable him to cheat on me or do what ever he wanted. Sometimes he would come home early to try and catch me doing something. If I said" you are home early", he would say- "no, I told you I was done at this time... .you are getting Alzheimer's and don't remember". They know- they just see what they can get away with! You are the dumb one for letting them dupe you-in their eyes.  He always told me that he knew lying was bad and he wasn't going to do it anymore- but that was a lie! He can't stop. That's what part of their therapy is for - to help them stop that behavior if it is a problem.

This is so spot on Herodias. They pretend they never said something when you catch them lying. When I caught my ex I could see her backing up and starting arguments. She would be mad at me for like 3 days for confronting her on something that I knew she had said. Sometimes she would use her "short memory" excuse. I think they are compulsive liars and they can't help it.

[JerryRG]

Hello Notsurewhattothinkofthis

My ex loved keeping secrets, she was dark, she loved to play games with me. Cat with a mouse until the mouse is so beaten or dead then find another mouse. I know this hurts to even think about but the facts cannot be denied. My ex told me she couldn't love herself so she found another mouse to move through the stages of her never ending search for love and acceptance to fill her empty shell. My hope was she would realize only God could fill her emptiness through recovery, her choice was mortal man.

We are not Gods

[troisette]

My ex's education and work info on Facebook claimed that he'd attended an exclusive fee-paying school and worked at a prestigious company. I was surprised about the school as it's religious and not the religion ex was born into. I knew people who'd worked at the same company.

At the time I thought he was mentally healthy and took him at face value.

I mentioned the school, casually in passing as it confused me. He brushed aside my comment saying the school thing was a joke.

I mentioned that I knew people who'd worked at the same company and asked if he knew them. He said he didn't and I thought nothing of it.

Within a day those details were removed from his FB information. I thought it a bit odd but still didn't think deeply about it as I was so enamoured.

He didn't go to the school and I'm not sure if he worked for the company in the capacity he claimed. It's plausible/possible he did but in that case, why take down the details unless he inflated his role?

So yes, he did lie and knew he was lying. But the reason is sad, it's about emptiness, self-validation, creating a false reality.

[Hadlee]

Sometimes she would use her "short memory" excuse. I think they are compulsive liars and they can't help it.

WOW I got the "short memory" *explanation* a number of times.  Along with the, "my head is all foggy."  Wow the similarities are insane

[lunchbox123]

I've caught my exBPDgf in so many lies. I believe she is a pathological liar.

Most of the time it was done through not being open and hiding things by answering questions literally rather than the spirit of the question. I caught on quite quickly and would have to grill her to get the truth. Then she would get frustrated when I asked so many questions but the truth always came out eventually.

She was ashamed of her behaviour and tried to cover it up by not being truthful. You'd think someone would learn from this and take the opportunity to improve when they had a clean slate. Unfortunately her actions just kept going and to this day i'm left with questions about what was and wasn't true.

It's sad to think about the things she's done, I pity her for having been in a situation to feel the need to do them. When i say she's ashamed of it, I don't believe she ever thinks about it. Only when she is confronted with it does she remember it. That's probably why she can live happily without me but is a mess whenever we had contact. I'm a trigger, I remind her of who she really is and what she's really done, a person the replacements have yet to discover.

[CC85]

Well, I'm currently going through my 2nd week, following my ex udBPDgf walking out on me and our son, and apparently moving on with another man already.

I have never heard so many lies in the 4 years I was with her, so it's probably best to list them in chronological order (the lies I now know are not true!):

1/ Told me she didn't drive, as she had a car crash where her best friend was killed, even pointed to the spot that the "crash" happened, and how she couldn't face ever getting behind the wheel.

-Turns out, said best friend was alive and well, but had slept with one of her ex's so was no longer a friend and had moved away.

2/ Told me she was a psychic medium, I even went to a spiritual night (and didn't speak to any ghosts!) as an open minded chap. She would constantly claim ghosts were in the room with us.

3/ Told me she may have been r***d by her Grandad as a little girl, but surprise surprise no police action had ever been taken.

4/ Told me she had slept with 16 people initially but after I revealed I had been in 1 long relationship prior to her, she reduced this figure to 6 including me and swore that she was exaggerating all along (I still don't know, nor really care, what the true figure was)

5/ Told me she used to play guitar in a band... .she obviously forgot her chords though as when I gave her my guitar (which I also cannot play) she couldn't play a thing!

6/ Told me her ex (father of her eldest son) had gone to kill himself with the son when she left him, and that he was subject to mental health care etc (I found out later that although he went through a breakdown, he never came near to carrying out anything so dramatic).

The above were all in the first few weeks of meeting her. Naturally I felt sorry for her, and that knight in shining armour trait came through as I quickly became her best boyfriend ever!

After the first few years, we had the following recurring lies:

1/ Announcing she was pregnant, then saying it was a false alarm (each time without going to the doctors).

2/ In line with the above, she had numerous "mis-carriages", sometimes not even telling me she was going to the hospital. We had one time where she spent the night in hospital thinking she had an ectopic pregnancy. No scans or tests ever revealed anything so she claimed she had an infection she had picked up from me (apparently I was a serial cheat - I wasn't!)

3/ Regular lies about where she was going or doing during the day. My Mother was trying to meet her on one of the school holidays and my ex said she had gone to the local museum (Despite the museum being closed on the day in question!). When my Mum asked why she would lie, her response was that she went to go but realised it was closed!

4/ Regular illnesses / health problems. She never let me accompany her to the doctors but would always have a "diagnosis" and require further x-rays / scans etc, but none of these were ever followed up and the problem would miraculously disappear.

As much as I loved her, and am still finding it hard not to ruminate over her, the lies she told bred a deep issue with trust, to the point that I couldn't trust her, which she got offended with and one of the reasons she left was because I would constantly accuse her.

I dare say the new man (although she is being coy saying that her moving on is all in my head), despite texting someone else before she left, will hear all these lies plus further ones about how evil I was.

The thing is, some of the things she told me which myself and her family brushed aside thinking she was lying, were actually true. For example her Father being on the sex offender's register for 10 years when she was a child. He is currently awaiting trial for further allegations, fuelled by my ex. Had I know her claims were true and not an outrageous lie I would've never let my own son go anywhere near their "Grandad" as we haven't since the current investigation.

Hope people can relate to these kind of lies, but of course in the eyes of my ex un-diagnosed, she didn't lie, and I merely misunderstood her! 

[Lexisdad]

Lets see;

Deceased father was an attorney/ no he owned a cleaning business

Cousin who was a police officer was shot/ never happened

Worked as a dj at a radio station/ no was a college intern

Has cervical cancer/ no it was hpv

Sold her townhouse so her ex bf could add an addition to his restaurant and he owed her 260 thousand dollars/ never owned a piece of real estate in her life

Went sky diving with her ex bf/ no pics of it/ never happened

Her ex bf took her and her son to paris for vacation/ son asks where paris is and she says we went there with--, no mom we did not!

Has a court date in family court with sons father/ that days a federal holiday,courts closed

Just moved into her apt when first mer/ lived there for 3 years already

Ive been in law enforcement 29 years. No doubt the most pathological liar i've come up against. Her own mother told me all she does is lie and tell stories!

[Notsurewhattothinkofthis]

Hello Notsurewhattothinkofthis

My ex loved keeping secrets, she was dark, she loved to play games with me. Cat with a mouse until the mouse is so beaten or dead then find another mouse. I know this hurts to even think about but the facts cannot be denied. My ex told me she couldn't love herself so she found another mouse to move through the stages of her never ending search for love and acceptance to fill her empty shell. My hope was she would realize only God could fill her emptiness through recovery, her choice was mortal man.

We are not Gods

Hey Man,  They do love keeping secrets it is a game to them. It is part of who they are. They lie, manipulate, betray and keep doing it. They will stop ONLY until we had enough and leave. We leave not because we want to, we live because we come to realize that that is the only solution to end the madness.

[Confused108]

Lies? Did someone say lies? Hell YES! All the time! But at the moment I had no idea the extent of her lies! My ex lied frim being raped by one of her ex boyfriends to her ex husband cheating on her, to her own brother and his buddy molesting her to the next door neighbor is looking at her for a possible relationship. To who she had sex with back when we were teens and the list goes on and on and on. One sick puppy!

[once removed]

i think the big picture here is what drives pathological lying. im stating the obvious when i say that its an emotionally immature coping mechanism.

You'd think someone would learn from this and take the opportunity to improve when they had a clean slate.

you would think so, yes. i recall blatantly lying to build myself up when i was much younger, on a number of occasions. i outgrew it. the thought makes me cringe.

was i aware i was lying? of course.

did i see the bigger picture? did i know what motivated me? was i fully conscious of what i was doing? probably not. at the time i had pretty low self esteem (people with BPD generally have low self esteem). i wasnt aware of that either.

so why doesnt that someone learn from this and take the opportunity to improve? "mental illness" is an answer in many of our cases, but doesnt seem to suffice.

many of these stories involve an ex that would turn the tables, or deny ever saying something, or make excuses. what is important to keep in mind, through the lens of mental illness, is that for a person with BPD, feelings = facts. facts are shifted to fit feelings. that is not generally a conscious thought process or a game. people with BPD simultaneously live with, and frantically avoid feelings of deep shame. throw in impulsivity, and you will often get lying as a means of emotional survival (why else does anyone lie?).

on top of that, you have dissociation as a diagnostic criteria. this goes much deeper than selective memory.

in other words: not all of these are examples of lying so much as the ex very much believing in their reality. imagine if the sky were actually green and someone was telling you that, how would you react? how would you react if they offered proof that the sky is actually green? now, try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who, by the very nature of their disorder and twisted thinking, has serious difficulty challenging themselves or their belief system.

of course there are plenty of examples of, to varying degree, calculated/pathological lying, and i could give you some myself. i think, at the heart of the matter is understanding, and depersonalizing, what drives that lying.

[Makersmarksman]

Of all the lies I have been told in 20 years with her, the BEST was "I have filed for divorce".  I immediately contacted my attorney who I had already seen and told him lets file the counterclaim.  Well, that was a lie too, she didnt file so I got the initial filing.  Woops, she just didnt think I had it in me even though I had previously filed twice against her and had been recycled, I guess, why would she think I would actually go through with this?

[GoingBack2OC]

- After we became "an item", said "I love you", were "us"- She was planning to see her ex, whom she hadn't seen in 3 years. In a far away city while on travel. I told her I felt real feelings for her, and that it simply bothered me; if it was coffee for an hour here at home, but away, in a beautiful country, meeting up? She told me she canceled it. She felt the same way. They stayed 3 nights in the same room.

- Nothing happened.

- She did cheat on me.

- She was lying. She didn't cheat on me. She was lying when she was telling the truth, or the the lie was the truth... .mmm I'm confused now.

- She got pregnant, with me.

- She aborted it.

- It never happened.

- She never said that.

- No really, I'm crazy, she never said that.

- Her parents have forced her to sign a marriage contract to marry a man the family knows. They are concerned I won't put a ring on it.

- Asked to see the contract. Oh--- I misheard, there's no contract, they just agreed.

- Confronted her about it- in front of her parents. They looked like they had the wind knocked out of them. Like: Excuse me?  She looked at me, embarrassed- I was just joking around; shrugging it off.

- She's in business meetings all week.  She was in the Bahammas.

- She leaves on Thursday for a business trip. She didn't leave till the following Monday.

- Yes I still have the IUD in. (Asked because usually i could feel it).

- 1 Year later:  I had it taken out. Havent been on BC for a year.

- I'm sorry I lied. I still have the IUD. Yes I am on BC.

- I never said that.

- I just had the IUD taken out. Wear a condom (last one who knows).

BUT THE KICKER:

I love you.

  no

I hate you.

    no

I love you.

I gave up wondering or even caring.