Met with my Pastor not feeling sure of his counsel

[strongerthanU]

Soo this whole process of detaching just got a lot more complicated for me and I welcome the wisdom of those more experienced or further along than I am.

I work for a faith based organization and was encouraged to take my plan to get divorced and discuss it with my boss/Pastor. I did so with much ambivalence as this decision has been completely agonizing and exhausting. I explained the journey of the past 28 years, one legal separation, no willingness at any point by h to seek help etc... .

Pastor listened and expressed grace and understanding but highly suggested that I instead seek a 12 month legal separation to ensure before the church that I have in fact given every opportunity for my h to be counseled and helped. This is the only way he felt he could endorse my seeking a divorce, I hold a leadership position in this organization and he felt this would ensure I was appropriately submitted.

I was so distraught by his suggestion because it has almost wrecked me even getting myself to this point. I have already experienced my h begging and offering to do anything after 25 years of absolutely nothing. He is desperate and I trust nothing he says. I feel he just wants to relieve his pain and discomfort in the process. That's what happened in previous separation and I sorely regretted not finalizing and felt oh so foolish for believing him last time.

Pastor indicated I don't have to do what he suggests but highly recommended due to my position and the spot it puts him in that a year from now I can sign and be done if h does nothing or makes no attempt.

Welllllll I kinda think h will pretend and act awesome for anyone watching. He did it before and lasted a whole 8 months post separation before Dr Jekyll came out. My h has not been officially diagnosed BPD just ptsd. His therapist from a work related counseling hesitated to give further RX to protect him in the workplace which he performs with skill and standards of high excellence. He is very sharp.

If you were me would you hold your position of divorce or buckle down for the year and sign off in 12 months?

Side note lawyer informed me legal separation stands at 180 days then goes to divorce filing in my state. I don't want to file multiple proceedings.

My kids feel this presents a sort of emotional limbo for all involved.

I appreciate your wisdom!

[Ulysses]

I can only offer you information from my personal experience.

I had older women in my life who urged me not to "unfile" my divorce proceedings, as my exH wanted.  They had similar issues with their husbands, and in their experiences, they wished they hadn't listened to their husbands' begging.  One ended up divorced, one is still married.  I was very very scared to file for divorce. 

My mother's pastor heard about my situation, and the "unofficial" diagnosis a psychologist gave my exH.  He said, wow, years ago we had a woman who experienced similar things to your daughter.  We counseled her to stay married.  Maybe we didn't understand about the mental health issues, and maybe we counseled her wrong.

My church pastor told me to stick with the divorce.  She had been in a similar situation when she was younger.  She divorced her husband and is remarried today.

I don't know your situation.  Only you know what is the right thing for you and your family.  My exH used the time I gave him to stall the divorce (he said he wanted to stay married, loved me, etc. etc.), then when it was too late for a MMPI (the court wouldn't grant it because of time limits to divorce filings in our state, I guess), he filed to get the divorce moving.  He'd found another affair partner by then and knew he wouldn't be alone. 

I believe what I experienced in my marriage included verbal, emotional, psychological, physical and financial abuse. 

If you stay married, I hope you are able to protect yourself legally, and the ways I listed above.  I hope my experience helps you protect yourself and make the right decision for you.

[strongerthanU]

Thanks for your input Ulysses,

I have no intention of staying married, I don't see any real value to enduring the year my Pastor is asking for because after 28 years I've seen nothing significant in wanting true change. I have been thru verbal abuse, anger, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse and more recently long drawn out silent treatments that last from 10 days to 4+ weeks and then just like that were all good. I can't endure the wrecked special occasions like all of them not just a couple, every event is surrounded by what he needs and what is comfortable or not for him. The recycle has worn on me one to many times. I don't want to live oppressed and lonely like this anymore. I have children and grandbabies and a zest for life he doesn't want to allow. My kids love me and are tired of the roller coaster ride as well. They are neutral towards their dad none of them have deep roots because he isn't going to be known by anyone. Part of the reason my pastor asked for this was because he doesn't really know my situation and he would feel better if he could invest himself in my life more. It's been a lifetime and it isn't gonna change in 12 months enough to convince me of anything. I'm wrestling with my codependent tendency to put what my pastor is asking above what my heart, mind, and common sense is saying and for once it's all seemingly lined up!

[Lifewriter16]

This is not to influence your decision in anyway, because I am a divorced Christian... .but reading your post, I wondered what you expect a legal separation to be. To me, legal separation is that the relationship is ended. All it does, is give you time to be absolutely certain before you take the final step of divorce. It doesn't have to be chance for your husband to win you round unless you give him that chance. Perhaps I am wrong in my understanding, but if your husband chooses to do something to mend it or says he does, you could tell him to go and work on himself in therapy. Tell him that as far as you are concerned it's over and maintain that stance. Keep very low contact. Bore your husband and be careful to provide him with no personal support when you have any contact with him. You might even find that he meets someone else during that time which makes the whole divorce process less messy than most BPD divorces.

Have a look at this article on the purpose of no contact and how to find an alternative way of low contact that reduces panic in pwBPD and induces boredom so they start to lose interest and go elsewhere. It is enlightening:

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

Having said all that, if you want a divorce, just get one. If you are done, you are done and there's no need to do what anyone else says even if you (or they) feel they have the sanction of God behind them. To me, that's religious abuse. GOD UNDERSTANDS YOUR HURT AND DISAPPOINTMENT AND JUST HOW HARD IT HAS BEEN FOR YOU TO EVEN GET TO THIS POINT. Follow your intuition.

Love  Lifewriter x

[Lucky Jim]

Hey strongerthanU, Your Pastor is probably unfamiliar with BPD, so I would take his advice, though well-intentioned, with a grain of salt.  In my view we are not meant to suffer and be miserable in our lives.  I can't tell you what to do, though I will suggest that you listen to your gut feelings.

LuckyJim

[strongerthanU]

Lifewriter,

I appreciate your input and reflection. The article was actually quite helpful. My concern in even entertaining the thought of separation was the message it would send my h that it would create hope and thus create more pressure on me to reconcile, when the message I prefer to send at this point is "I'm done".

I think my h would also speculate as to what changed my thinking from divorce to separation.

My intent is to keep sending the message it's over. I just felt agreeing to my Pastors request was counterproductive at this time.

I'm so grateful for the reflections and sharing on these boards it helps me pull my thinking back to the center.

[strongerthanU]

Lucky Jim,

I am certain my pastor has no knowledge of BPD I was warned before talking to him to not throw diagnoses around as it would look like I was fishing for excuses and unless you truly understand borderline you don't really understand. So I just indicated my husband suffered emotional issues and ptsd which is accurate. Thanks for your support!

[Joebagodonuts]

Hi STU, I'm very new here finally come out of the FOG, I'll be 53 this year & I know I feel that at my age I need to get to the next phase ASAP I've got 25+ years I need to move on from

[Lucky Jim]

Hey stronger than, Sounds like you put it well with your Pastor.  Agree, unless you've experienced it, it's tough to appreciate what it's like in a BPD r/s.  We get it, however, and are here to help.  LJ

[SWLSR]

STU

This is one of those times when you have to make a difficult decision.  Many churches take divorce very seriously.  I am sure you are aware of biblical grounds, if your divorce contains them I would be prepared to use them, you know what they are I am sure but for those who do not they are adultery and being married to a non believer, any issues lack biblical grounds.  You have to decide what is worth it to you.  I can tell you some churches frown on divorce and in your case it could affect your job, but if you want out of this marriage and having  been married to a BPD I know how awful it is, then you may just have to take that risk.   

[strongerthanU]

Thanks everyone for your input!

SWLSR- I found out just how important this matter was to my boss/Pastor after our second meeting this past Wednesday. He once again impressed to me that I have no grounds for a biblical divorce although he understands and supports why I would seek one. He did in fact point out that based on the contract I signed when I joined the staff that I would have to transition off of staff and he would support me in that if I refuse to comply with a 12 month separation. I'm not gonna lie I was pretty angry when he first brought it to my attention and then after he explained his position as my Pastor and boss and what his role is with my being a ministry leader I understood more.

He has given me his word that he will protect me through this and that his goal is to put the outcome on my spouse (which is the scary part as you all know! The spouse doesn't even want this, I am his caretaker and he is sorely missing that).

Anyway Pastor has advised that I pursue separation as planned and that he will be in immediate contact with my h to further the plan.

My h is about half moved out and has been staying at his own place for a week now. He keeps texting me and asking if I am alright with my decision.

I'm in a kind of numb place right now. H has been so incredibly unavailable to me for so long it doesn't feel all that different to me that he isn't here. I was really weepy and upset the first few nights just because when you sleep next to someone for 30 years there is a rhythm and routine to it. Otherwise I feel huge relief at not being stressed or ignored and taunted by the push pull.

I very much appreciate all of you! Thanks for being there for me when so many others just don't get it.

[strongerthanU]

Joe, welcome to the forum!

Keep connected and you will come out on the other side of this difficult journey. Life isn't as short as it is worth living to the fullest, don't count days celebrate every opportunity that you didn't before.

[Makersmarksman]

I have a somewhat similar situation.  My therapist was once our MC, and had been our individual therapist for at least 10 years for both me and my stbx.  He knows enerything, and perhaps many things I do not know as he counseled her individually for quite some time, as well as my children.  He saw us through a prior seperation, with divorce papers on the table, he saw her through a rehab and reconciliation 8 years ago.  He sat there and in joint MC heard her divulge multiple affairs during that time.  I still see him twice a week and sometimes bring my kids.  He also is one of two therapists to throw the cluster B diagnosis on her, but he still was never able to give her full Dx.

Heres the thing, to this day, with EVERYTHING he knows he still leans towards me keeping the door open to her, its far more subtle now but he continues to hold firm in that you cannot be concerned with what anyone else thinks, only what you feel is right.  He has stated that he has never seen a more intense love/hate relationship in his 35 years of practice, and he holds firm to the idea that "wouldnt you want to experience that intensity of love, if it remained only that, forever?"  He thinks there is always hope, on both sides. 

He also, if this goes to trial, has agreed to testify on my behalf, something he said he had never done for any client!  Its all very confusing, its not like he ever tells me what to do, but he remains one of the people in my life that doesnt think all the recycles have been crazy and he absolutely believes that my stbx can be "cured", but only when her addictions are first cured.

Makes things a bit foggy, honestly.

[SWLSR]

Stu my thoughts prayers and support are with you.  When I went through my divorce I had to go before the session and show I had biblical grounds.  If I had not done that then I would not be able to take communion.  I have seen the church deny communion to people who divorced without the grounds.  So I am aware that you are in a difficult place.  I am here for you and many on this site are also, but also God is here for you. 

[strongerthanU]

Hey MM,

I understand where your coming from, us strong, loyal, co dependent types who have weathered a long term BPD relationship or any other mental/addiction based relationship develop some serious tenacity! Or maybe the marines developed that for you  

I have realized everyone who cares for me and my h has an opinion about how our relationship should go and what I think I can say to you with confidence is when you are done, your done!

It doesn't mean you don't or didn't care, it means exactly the opposite, you have exercised every possible option over a lengthy period of time, honoring to the very best of your ability your vows and commitment to love your spouse and raise awesome kids.

It's important to LOVE you now, as much as you tried to love her. It's up to her and God now to work out what's left of her future.

As my kids tell me "Mom, you have a beautiful life waiting for you to welcome it, please quit killing yourself for the one you will never have with dad."

You remind me of myself in the hope department! Even the bible points out that hope deferred makes the heart sick... .  It's ok to let hope go and have faith in the one who can heal you both without feeling like you have to step back in...

I admire and respect the man you have been to your wife and family, you are a good man, and your children are blessed to have you through all of this trauma. Hang in there!

[strongerthanU]

SWLSR,

I am truly grateful for your perspective, prayers, and encouragement!  this isn't how I thought things would be for me, like I said to MM sometimes it's alright to let go of hope and embrace faith in one who can take this big mess and make something of it.

At the moment I am planning on taking the 12 month separation because I love the ministry I am in and don't want to lose what I am passionate for over a code of conduct clause.

I trust my pastor will protect and look out for me and so far the separation is going alright aside from the daily text from h reminding me that what I'm pursuing is wrong :/ go figure.