Attempt to contact her after 14+ months of NC: complete failure

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, this post is the millionth proof that trying to have a friendship with a BPD individual is almost impossible.

Here's the story.

Last month I was in the city of my ex BPD/HPD gf, since I had to attend a birthday of a friend of mine (completely unrelated to her); before going to my friend's home, I stopped by a bar and I met her completely by accident, after 13+ months of NC.

Here's the full story: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292690.0

To make it short: We were both shocked. She asked me to sit at the table, and we had a 40+ minutes very nice conversation. At the end she even asked me to spend the night with her, but I kindly refused since I had to attend a birthday of a friend of mine (who is completely unrelated to my ex)  

Anyway, she asked me to come to her work-place the day after, and I agreed.

The following day I went there: she seemed a little bit cold, and talking was not that easy, since the bar was full of clients. In the end we parted quite kindly, but she seemed quite colder with respect to the day before.

Anyway, 1 month passed, and we arrive at today. We didn't have any contact during this month, but I though it could have been nice to ask her to spend some time togheter. She refused, and frankly I'm quite shocked at her motives. Here's the conversation.

ME: Hi L! Since the last time we met I didn't have the chance to spend the night with you... .I was thinking to do a one-off in your city, so we can have an evening togheter; what do you think?

L: Sorry, but I'd prefer no.

ME: Ok L... .I understand that there are deep psychological reasons which bring you to always cut-off the past; obviously I respect your choice, even if I'm a little bit sorry about it, since one month ago we had a very amicable conversation and you even asked me to spend the night togheter.

ME: Should you change your mind the door obviously stays open; be aware also that I don't bear any grudge with respect to what happened in the past.

L: It's obvious you are not bearing any grudge! I didn't do anything wrong... .No, obviously that did not cross my mind... .that (Saturday) evening I was tired, and probably I was talking nonsense to even think to spend the night with you... .the day after, when you came to my workplace, everything about you got clear again.

ME: Well... .okay, perfectly understood. Bye.

To me it's simply mind-boggling how she splitted me white and then black again in only 24 hours, how she lacks even a small amount of decency, how she completely bends the reality and how she is totally unaware of her psychological problems. She even didn't motivate what I did wrong the following day (obviously nothing).

I was so angry that I was going to throw the "BPD bomb" to her, but then I didn't act on it. And I think I'll leave at that. She's a lost cause.

So, what do you think guys?

[Fr4nz]

So, this post is the millionth proof that trying to have a friendship with a BPD individual is almost impossible.

Here's the story.

Last month I was in the city of my ex BPD/HPD gf, since I had to attend a birthday of a friend of mine (completely unrelated to her); before going to my friend's home, I stopped by a bar and I met her completely by accident, after 13+ months of NC.

Here's the full story: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292690.0

To make it short: We were both shocked. She asked me to sit at the table, and we had a 40+ minutes very nice conversation. At the end she even asked me to spend the night with her, but I kindly refused since I had to attend a birthday of a friend of mine (who is completely unrelated to my ex)  

Anyway, she asked me to come to her work-place the day after, and I agreed.

The following day I went there: she seemed a little bit cold, and talking was not that easy, since the bar was full of clients. In the end we parted quite kindly, but she seemed quite colder with respect to the day before.

Anyway, 1 month passed, and we arrive at today. We didn't have any contact during this month, but I though it could have been nice to ask her to spend some time togheter. She refused, and frankly I'm quite shocked at her motives. Here's the conversation.

ME: Hi L! Since the last time we met I didn't have the chance to spend the night with you... .I was thinking to do a one-off in your city, so we can have an evening togheter; what do you think?

L: Sorry, but I'd prefer no.

ME: Ok L... .I understand that there are deep psychological reasons which bring you to always cut-off the past; obviously I respect your choice, even if I'm a little bit sorry about it, since one month ago we had a very amicable conversation and you even asked me to spend the night togheter.

ME: Should you change your mind the door obviously stays open; be aware also that I don't bear any grudge with respect to what happened in the past.

L: It's obvious you are not bearing any grudge! I didn't do anything wrong... .No, obviously that did not cross my mind... .that (Saturday) evening I was tired, and probably I was talking nonsense to even think to spend the night with you... .the day after, when you came to my workplace, everything about you got clear again.

ME: Well... .okay, perfectly understood. Bye.

To me it's simply mind-boggling how she splitted me white and then black again in only 24 hours, how she lacks even a small amount of decency, how she completely bends the reality and how she is totally unaware of her psychological problems. She even didn't motivate what I did wrong the following day (obviously nothing).

I was so angry that I was going to throw the "BPD bomb" to her, but then I didn't act on it. And I think I'll leave at that. She's a lost cause.

So, what do you think guys?

[sweet tooth]

She was insulted you wouldn't spend the night with her and now she's playing childish games.

[Dhand77]

Sweet Tooth nailed it.

[steelwork]

I don't know... .isn't it possible that she simply regretted the impulse that led to her inviting you to spend the night with her? That she later felt she'd been ambushed by the surprise encounter? It reads to me like she was reacting defensively to being psychoanalyzed... and also to the implication that she had something to apologize for (the thing you aren't holding a grudge about). I don't think I'd appreciate being approached that way, either, to be honest.

I mean, what game is she playing? She'd prefer not to see you, and she said so in a straightforward way.

I know it hurts, getting your head back into the relationship only to be denied like this. If you feel like it's set you back, maybe try going back to being gentle with yourself for a while.

[steelwork]

By the way, I hope that didn't sound harsh. It really wasn't meant to be.

Reading your post was useful for me. I realized how crushed I'd be in your shoes, which is a good reminder that I'm not ready to attempt any rapprochement with my ex.

[Stripey77]

Or... .is it just possible that in the cold light of day, she realised she HAD got carried away and that it was probably a good thing that you didn't spend the night together, and didn't want to rekindle the friendship? She couldn't have been that insulted you didn't spend the night, seeing as she asked you to meet her the next day. Ok, she wasn't as warm and friendly as the night before, and having myself been on the receiving end of a bag of mixed messages like this, it is confusing and can seem hurtful. But, even someone with BPD is allowed to change his or her mind. If you don't mind me saying so, your text message to her seems to be hammering home the point somewhat, reminding her that she asked you to spend the night. Do you think that she forgot that and needed that reminder? I'm sure her memory is not so short, is it? She said sorry and she'd prefer not to, so why couldn't that have been enough?

Let's say for a minute that this was a conversation with a 'non' - and they had, in the heat of the moment, asked you to spend the night but it didn't happen. A month a later and having thought about it, they decide that they would prefer not to spend time together, for whatever reasons. Would you all be so quick to say that he/she was 'insulted' and playing childish games? People change their minds. People are fickle. Other, non BPD people do things like this and far more hurtful things, every day.  Maybe, just maybe, she went away -  and  you are talking a whole month later - thought it was better to let sleeping dogs lie. Who of us hasn't had second thoughts about something, anything?

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, I am just saying that all human beings are capable of changing their minds/2nd thoughts, and it is our right to do so, even if it means hurting someone else. This is true of ALL relationship break ups when one person really really doesn't want to break up. If the other one does, then sadly, it's over. No amount of reminding someone what they promised in the past or said, means that they have to stay with us.

And... .were you both drinking on night in question when you had this lovely conversation and the idea of staying over was brought up? Because once you have that in the equation, as we all know, it clouds judgments/makes our mouths run away with us/makes things seem like a good idea when they actually might not be.

I do know how this feels because my ex, after weeks of silence following our first break up, jumped on me at the bar in a club and in front of all our respective friends, had a 1 hour conversation with me and then kissed me in front of everyone.  I was on cloud 9. He texted me the next day and for a day or two... .and then total silence for 3 weeks, which broke my heart. The silence and limbo was agony. Until he did it all again a few weeks later and recycled me.  

She at least had the decency to communicate with you and politely decline, and I honestly think that her explanation that she realised the next day that for her, it wasn't a good idea, should be enough.

[steelwork]

Stripey, if you read my first post above, you'll see that I agree with your take.

This stuff is so hard, so awful for everyone. It reminds me of the last time I saw my ex, before I knew about the replacement, and he tried to get me to go home with him. I held onto that fact so tight, for months and months--a year, maybe--as evidence of his "true" feelings, when in fact it was just a dying ember.

I'm staying no-contact.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Fr4nz, I am confused.  Were you hoping to rekindle something with your BPD Ex?  Presumably there is a reason why you went NC for 14 months, right?  If so, why did you want to spend the night w/her last month?  What, if anything, has changed?

LuckyJim

[Fr4nz]

Hey Fr4nz, I am confused.  Were you hoping to rekindle something with your BPD Ex?  Presumably there is a reason why you went NC for 14 months, right?  If so, why did you want to spend the night w/her last month?  What, if anything, has changed?

LuckyJim

Hey Lucky,

as I said, 1 month ago I met her completely by accident in a bar. If it wasn't for that episode, I would have stayed NC forever.

However, since that episode made me think that she painted me white again, I thought that, perhaps, a friendship (without benefits, obviously, I'm not that crazy to have sex again with a BPD!) would have been possible.

Let's say that keeping things on good terms would have been the definitive closure for me, that was the goal.

That is what you do with sane, civil and reasonable exes some time after the break/up.

Boy, I was so wrong... .and I feel stupid, because I should have known that BPDs are usually incapable of that.

[Fr4nz]

I don't know... .isn't it possible that she simply regretted the impulse that led to her inviting you to spend the night with her? That she later felt she'd been ambushed by the surprise encounter? It reads to me like she was reacting defensively to being psychoanalyzed... and also to the implication that she had something to apologize for (the thing you aren't holding a grudge about). I don't think I'd appreciate being approached that way, either, to be honest.

I mean, what game is she playing? She'd prefer not to see you, and she said so in a straightforward way.

I know it hurts, getting your head back into the relationship only to be denied like this. If you feel like it's set you back, maybe try going back to being gentle with yourself for a while.

Hey Steelwork,

I also think that she acted on impulse when she asked me to spend the evening with her (NOTE: we drank a little bit, but not nearly that much to lose the reason).

On my part, I used that improvised nice talk (I say again: it happened completely by accident) just to seize the opportunity to remain on good terms. There were no other goals from my side.

Now, about her refusal: it's absolutely her right to refuse to meet, I don't question that. In fact, I kept the conversation very short in the end. However, we are taught in these forums that communication is very important in any kind of relationship.

So, considering that I thought we remained on good terms, her refusal is so abrupt that I felt the impulse to let her know that there are psychological reasons behind her refusal. Perhaps not the best move, but my answer was not offensive in the end; I was hoping that that sentence would have made her think a little bit about her refusal. Wrong.

In turn, she denied every horrible thing she did me in the past, and used an unfounded reason to justify her no.

That's when I thought "okay, BPD stuff, whatever, bye" and I cut the conversation short.

Anyway, my point is that, even if you offer them a friendship after they made you think they are open to reconnect, they are capable of destryoing everything again. Not worth any second of my time anymore.

But, even someone with BPD is allowed to change his or her mind. If you don't mind me saying so, your text message to her seems to be hammering home the point somewhat, reminding her that she asked you to spend the night. Do you think that she forgot that and needed that reminder? I'm sure her memory is not so short, is it? She said sorry and she'd prefer not to, so why couldn't that have been enough?

Yes, I added that information on purpose, just to basically remind her that on the basis of what I heard from her 1 month ago, it was natural for me to think that she wanted to reconnect as well.

As for the short memory, she has an uncanny ability to twist the reality - as you can see from the other messages, so citing facts can help (somehow).

[steelwork]

Staying on good terms isn't really closure, though, is it? Is it that you want to be friends, or did you want to have a clearing-the-air conversation? Anyhow, I'm not seeing where you communicated either of those things to her in a clear way.

You asked what we thought... .

ME: Hi L! Since the last time we met I didn't have the chance to spend the night with you... .I was thinking to do a one-off in your city, so we can have an evening togheter; what do you think?

"One-off" sounds kind of like "quickie" to me--especially in the context of "spending the night with you". But maybe you meant hanging out as friends? (Again, not closure.)

L: Sorry, but I'd prefer no.

So, she'd prefer no to this one-off. That's all I'm seeing here. She'd obviously reconsidered the day after she proposed it, a month ago, so it's not surprising.

ME: Ok L... .I understand that there are deep psychological reasons which bring you to always cut-off the past; obviously I respect your choice, even if I'm a little bit sorry about it, since one month ago we had a very amicable conversation and you even asked me to spend the night togheter.

ME: Should you change your mind the door obviously stays open; be aware also that I don't bear any grudge with respect to what happened in the past.

You're presenting her as someone with deep psychological dysfunctions and yourself as a generous, forgiving person with great forbearance. This doesn't really give her much of an opening to reestablish friendly contact, if that's what you want (you haven't said), and it's not a promising opening to a closure conversation, either. And you bring up her previous offer in a way that kind of puts her on the spot.

L: It's obvious you are not bearing any grudge! I didn't do anything wrong... .No, obviously that did not cross my mind... .that (Saturday) evening I was tired, and probably I was talking nonsense to even think to spend the night with you... .the day after, when you came to my workplace, everything about you got clear again.

She's on the defensive now, but she's being pretty restrained, in my opinion. Gentle irony: obviously you're not bearing a grudge, since you seem to be propositioning her. She gives you an explanation for the inconsistency, but she shouldn't have to. As stripey said, we are all entitled to change our minds. Everyone needs to respect that. It's a cornerstone of consent and mutual respect.

So that's what I see in the exchange.

[once removed]

Now, about her refusal: it's absolutely her right to refuse to meet, I don't question that.

In fact, I kept the her refusal is so abrupt that I felt the impulse to let her know that there are psychological reasons behind her refusal. Perhaps not the best move

In turn, she denied every horrible thing she did me in the past, and used an unfounded reason to justify her no.

That's when I thought "okay, BPD stuff, whatever, bye" and I cut the conversation short.

I was so angry that I was going to throw the "BPD bomb" to her, but then I didn't act on it. And I think I'll leave at that. She's a lost cause.

these are contradictory statements. there is no need to pathologize her refusal. i understand that it hurt, anyone would feel the sting of that exchange. i think if you want to have contact with her, you just came on a little strong this time. give it a breather, start small.

[rfriesen]

Human motivations are complex and often unstable in any case -- add BPD or related symptoms to the mix and all of that is multiplied, and often in a painful way.

So, with the caveat that I really don't know enough about your situation to say anything confidently, it seems to me sweet tooth and steelwork could both be right. Just thinking of my own ex, she was so terrified of rejection, so easily hurt by the slightest hint of it, so ready to lash out in pain, that she could well play "childish games" to cover over the pain of rejection. And though they seem like childish games to us, it's a defence mechanism for them, and maybe one they need if they're really hurting and don't have other emotional tools to cope.

And from your ex's point of view, it might have seemed like you were playing games. I'm not at all saying you were -- but to someone who's terrified of rejection and who plays games as a defence mechanism, I think it often appears that everyone is playing the same games. In bad cases, it's a kind of paranoia that infects all their intimate interactions. My ex even had enough self-awareness to put it that way to me once - she said something like, "I've been hurt too many times. And if I think you're going to hurt me, I'm going to strike first."

I get why it hurt to have your ex say no, and in your shoes I would be hurt too. Especially after feeling like you're back on decent terms and have a chance to keep things that way.

(On this point, I don't entirely agree with steelwork - in my experience of past relationships (other than with my BPD ex), staying on good terms was a kind of closure. I've stayed friends, or at least on good terms, with many former girlfriends and that always felt healthy to me and - I believe - those former girlfriends too.)

But if I picture my ex in the position of your ex in this story, then I can also sympathise with her -- it's that painful fear of rejection that makes them play what might seem to us to be childish games.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Fr4nz]

Staying on good terms isn't really closure, though, is it? Is it that you want to be friends, or did you want to have a clearing-the-air conversation? Anyhow, I'm not seeing where you communicated either of those things to her in a clear way.

You asked what we thought... .

ME: Hi L! Since the last time we met I didn't have the chance to spend the night with you... .I was thinking to do a one-off in your city, so we can have an evening togheter; what do you think?

"One-off" sounds kind of like "quickie" to me--especially in the context of "spending the night with you". But maybe you meant hanging out as friends? (Again, not closure.)

Yes, it was like hanging out with friends, not a quickie. I'm translating from my language, so pardon me if the meaning was not so clear

As for the rest, yes, I recognize that perhaps I came too strong... .this was due to her rejection, which I admit was quite a big blow for me in the immediate. As for patologizing... .I'd been with her for 1.5 years, so I know that the abrupt refusal came from pure anger; indeed, she seemed cold the day after, when I met her at her workplace (by her request), and in the end she really used that as the reason to not meet.

[steelwork]

(On this point, I don't entirely agree with steelwork - in my experience of past relationships (other than with my BPD ex), staying on good terms was a kind of closure. I've stayed friends, or at least on good terms, with many former girlfriends and that always felt healthy to me and - I believe - those former girlfriends too.)

By the way, we don't disagree. I'm on good terms with all my exes but two. It's just that the OP said "keeping things on good terms would have been the definitive closure for me"... .so if he felt they were already on good terms, what more needs to be done to achieve closure? What he seemed to be looking for was a reestablishment of contact.

[steelwork]

Staying on good terms isn't really closure, though, is it? Is it that you want to be friends, or did you want to have a clearing-the-air conversation? Anyhow, I'm not seeing where you communicated either of those things to her in a clear way.

You asked what we thought... .

ME: Hi L! Since the last time we met I didn't have the chance to spend the night with you... .I was thinking to do a one-off in your city, so we can have an evening togheter; what do you think?

"One-off" sounds kind of like "quickie" to me--especially in the context of "spending the night with you". But maybe you meant hanging out as friends? (Again, not closure.)

Yes, it was like hanging out with friends, not a quickie. I'm translating from my language, so pardon me if the meaning was not so clear

As for the rest, yes, I recognize that perhaps I came too strong... .this was due to her rejection, which I admit was quite a big blow for me in the immediate. As for patologizing... .I'd been with her for 1.5 years, so I know that the abrupt refusal came from pure anger; indeed, she seemed cold the day after, when I met her at her workplace (by her request), and in the end she really used that as the reason to not meet.

Right... .there's always so much more to a seemingly simple exchange, shades of meaning that no one outside the relationship will understand.

[Fr4nz]

I get why it hurt to have your ex say no, and in your shoes I would be hurt too. Especially after feeling like you're back on decent terms and have a chance to keep things that way.

(On this point, I don't entirely agree with steelwork - in my experience of past relationships (other than with my BPD ex), staying on good terms was a kind of closure. I've stayed friends, or at least on good terms, with many former girlfriends and that always felt healthy to me and - I believe - those former girlfriends too.)

But if I picture my ex in the position of your ex in this story, then I can also sympathise with her -- it's that painful fear of rejection that makes them play what might seem to us to be childish games.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Indeed, it can be fear of rejection, who knows... .she treated me so badly towards the end of the r/s that the idea of having to do with me again, perhaps, is going to pull out some unpleasant memories... .and induce shame.

Or, it can be some criticism (frankly, I don't remember any kind of criticism AT ALL) she perceived when we met the day after... .

Anyway, the end point is that: I gave it a try and I failed. I think I've done my part, civilly, and on the basis of previous evidence. It didn't work. And, if that doesn't work after 14 months of NC, then there's definitely nothing more I can do.

She has a history of repeating the same behavioural patterns across relationships, and she's known to be a cut-off type, so perhaps I was just a fool to hope that a reconnection was possible.

(On this point, I don't entirely agree with steelwork - in my experience of past relationships (other than with my BPD ex), staying on good terms was a kind of closure. I've stayed friends, or at least on good terms, with many former girlfriends and that always felt healthy to me and - I believe - those former girlfriends too.)

By the way, we don't disagree. I'm on good terms with all my exes but two. It's just that the OP said "keeping things on good terms would have been the definitive closure for me"... .so if he felt they were already on good terms, what more needs to be done to achieve closure? What he seemed to be looking for was a reestablishment of contact.

Yes, perhaps in this case it is more appropriate to talk about "reestablishment of contact". As you guys, I didn't have any problem to maintain contacts with my former exes, even sporadic ones, except for the BPD and another girl.

[steelwork]

I tend to pass a lot of internal judgment on cut-off types, I guess... .fairly or not, I think of it a the coward's way out, a sign of cruelty, lack of compassion, all those things. Because I'm so the opposite of that. One thing I've come to see is that I go overboard in the other direction. I keep up connections with people long after I feel any benefit from it & tend to stay enmeshed with friends, exes, relatives, old acquaintances, co-workers, whoever. My therapist pointed out that this is the way fear of abandonment surfaces for some people. I tend to be that person.

So what am I saying?

My ex is the cut-off type. I spent a lot of time feeling victimized by that. I still do, I guess. But partly that's a mismatch of types. Others might actually prefer it, I suppose. I think neither of us are good at graceful partings. I feel like now I could do a better job of it, if he gave me a chance, but he was probably acting the best way he could given his own limitations--like, preventing himself from even more lashing-out and cruelty by staying away from me.

[Fr4nz]

I tend to pass a lot of internal judgment on cut-off types, I guess... .fairly or not, I think of it a the coward's way out, a sign of cruelty, lack of compassion, all those things. Because I'm so the opposite of that. One thing I've come to see is that I go overboard in the other direction. I keep up connections with people long after I feel any benefit from it & tend to stay enmeshed with friends, exes, relatives, old acquaintances, co-workers, whoever. My therapist pointed out that this is the way fear of abandonment surfaces for some people. I tend to be that person.

The same things hold for me as well!

And, as pointed out by my T some time ago, I have a borderline personality style, so I can relate to fears of abandonment as well. Perhaps it also explains why I felt so bad at her rejection before.

Anyway, I'd add also that cutting off allows to compartmentalize the past and have a fresh new start.

[steelwork]

And, as pointed out by my T some time ago, I have a borderline personality style, so I can relate to fears of abandonment as well. Perhaps it also explains why I felt so bad at her rejection before.

Great insight, Fr4nz, I think it holds for a lot of us here: abandonment fears meet abandonment fears, with disastrous results.