Triggered by a stranger

[isshebpd]

It was the end of a hot and stressful day, and I was sitting in my apartment writing a report I had to get done. Outside my apartment window was traffic chaos due to nearby construction. All of a sudden some guy is leaning on his horn, repeatedly, right outside my building.

I yelled at him to stop honking. It was driving me (and surely others) crazy and it wasn't helping the traffic jam. We exchanged words, as I leaned out my window. Anyhow, I loudly tore into him in front of a lot of people. My wife actually found it a bit amusing, but at the same time pointed out that I could bring on trouble.

I don't normally act like that, and I was totally sober. I'm wondering whether the healing process from growing up with a uBPDmom is making me edgy. Anyone else experience anything like this?

He did stop honking, by the way.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Could be that you have a few ADD traits.  One trait of ADD/ADHD is the inability to filter out the noises of others. I've never had a formal diagnosis, but I've come to learn that I have several ADD tendancies.  :)uring my working life, I have struggled with trying to concentrate on work tasks, if my office neighbors in adjoining cubicles were noisey.  Loud talkers and those who take a conference call on a speaker phone, had to be the worst for me to deal with.

Loud noises by others drives me crazy.  As the hours pass, the more disturbed I get.  Before head phones became so common and accepted (common these days for many people to have some form of a headphone/blue tooth device on) I was the odd one who had small headphones on at work (usually with a tiny am/fm radio,  an Ipod when they came into being, or tuned into something from the computer). It seems odd, but if I were working on your report, I'd probably be able to hyperfocus on it with headphones on.  I might be semi listening to talk radio, a podcast or music.

I can relate to your annoyance with the excess horn honking. I live in a very multicultural neighborhood in CA...  I, also, live at the end of a cul-de-sac and have an extremely large yard, by CA standards.  It has become an obnoxius trend, in my area, for neighbors to have loud outdoor parties with extremely loud maraichi bands outside, with amps.  Someone seems to be marketing a special:  a maraichi band,  an outhouse and a bouncy house.  Sounds laughable, but that's my world.

If not a maraichi band, then some neighbors have the ususal outdoor party (or just a day in their swimming pool) with outdoor speakers (amp cranked up, mega base to the level that my window start vibrating and rattling).  Occasionally, when I make a disturbing the peace complaint, the volumn will come down.  On rare occasions, I've shut down the noise completely (propably when minors have a party with no legal adults on the property).  Sometimes, the volume is cranked up, after the police come out for the first complaint.

I've never been successful with getting anyone to lower the volumn.  When I  close all my windows and doors, turn  a fan on high (white noise) and crank up the sound on the TV (to enjoy my  movie on a Saturday evening), I consider making a disturbing the peace complaint. I laugh about it now, but a few years ago, a neighbor behind me had a child that  was learning to play the tuba.  The child was put outside to play off key tuba for hours at a time.  

"my personal noise", helps me focus on whatever the task at hand is, and filters out distracting/annoying noises to some degree.  There is a point, however, as with a maraichi band, outdoor speakers, mega base that rattles my windows, etc., that the personal noise distraction stops working for me.  That would have been the case for me with the horn.  A similar situation would be with a run away car alarm that is either too sensitve or malfunctioning.

It can be a challenge to deal with the noise annoyance and the associated anger.  The longer the noise annoyance lasts, the more that anger can escalate.  BPD or not, it can be tough to manage your reaction when you can't stop an annoyance in your own home.  I've had some miserable afternoons and evenings (at durations of several hours).  People refuse to listen to requests to lower the volumn.  Some turn up the volumn, after you make a disturbing the peace complaint. (knowing that most people won't make the 2nd one, as they have to make a citizen's arrest).

In most instances, we have no power to change selfish, rude or insensitive people, who impose their loud noise upon us.  Even with attempts to use various relaxation tools, the loud noise  hampers it.  Ear plugs would be one option, but you can't listen to your own music, guided meditation, movie, etc. with ear plugs in your ears.  I haven't tried using noise canceling ear phones, might be worth a try.  


Sometimes, I suck it up and have a miserable evening.  Other times, I make a disturbing the peace complaint. It happens so frequently, that I have the office phone number to my local police dept. as a phone contact.  In the notes section, I have listed all the addresses of the neighbors who have loud parties regularly.  

Someone might have some other logic to offer. I can relate to your anger with the noise.  I don't know what the best option is if it isn't convenient to leave your home (shouldn't have to), have no power to make the offender stop and by nature of the offensive noise, have limited means to use some relaxation techniques to diffuse your anger.  Every community has different laws on disturbing the peace.  Even If I go that route, it will take hours before I work through the first complaint, then the 2nd complaint and citizen's arrest. 

[isshebpd]

My brother38 was recently diagnosed with ADD. He also has a lot of BPD and NPD traits. He is extremely sensitive to other people's noise sometimes, much more than me. Ironically, at the same time, he can be one of the noisiest people I know.

Sometimes I have to work with him in the family business. He will talk loudly on the phone, usually about nothing to do with the business, while others are trying to work. This caused conflicts between him and a former employee.

A few weeks ago, the two of us had to run the family business while our parent were out of town. We managed to work together to get a very time-sensitive shipment out on time. But after that, I could tell things were going to go badly. uPDbro was suddenly listless and unable to focus on his tasks. I did my tasks in advance, knowing the next shipment was at risk of going out late.

When it came to the last hour for shipping, I checked on uPDbro and he had fallen asleep. No way was the shipment ready to go. He suddenly reached this highly irritated state, where I couldn't say anything or make any noise without him freaking out.

Also at a recent family gathering, my uPDbro could not tolerate the noise of our nephew8 (sister's son) at play. Everyone else was tolerating it, but he couldn't. After our nephew ignored his request to quiet down, my uPDbro went out in the yard to escape the noise that was apparently tormenting him so much.

While I'm not as noise-senstive as my brother, I am probably more so than most people. I don't like loud ambient noise so tend to avoid certain restaurants and bars. I also can be easily startled by sudden noise. The startle reflex is a C-PTSD symptom which I believe was brought on by uBPDmom's rages when I was a child (scapegoat).

Sorry to hear about your noisy neighbours, Naughty Nibbler. We moved a few years ago after we realized the house next to us became a crash-pad for crackheads. Their noise was driving me crazy, but the final straw was a scary police incident.

BTW my enDAD definitely has some ADD traits too. So such tendencies may run in the family.

[Naughty Nibbler]

My brother38 was recently diagnosed with ADD. He also has a lot of BPD and NPD traits.

Is your brother in therapy?  What led him to seek a diagnosis?  Was that something he did on his own, or did something or someone prompt him?  :)oes he have a plan to manage his ADD in some way?  What behaviors of your brother would you identify as BPD, as opposed to ADD?

I believe my sister is uBPD, so I'm on a bit of a learning curve regarding BPD.

A couple of days ago, I caught a radio interview from an AM radio broadcast.  The person interviewed was  Peter Shankman.  You might want to check out his website at   www.fasterthannormal.com/  He refers to himself as being gifted with ADD/ADHD.  You have to laugh at a photo Peter Shankman has of himself on his home page, with the following quote, "About to go on TV, distracted by something shiny."  He laughs at himself, so you have to laugh along with him, .  There are a lot of people with ADD/ADHD who have tamed their creativity and have had very successful careers

Peter Shankman has several podcasts that look interesting.  I definitely plan to check them out.  When I went to the Website, I was invited to subscribe to their newsletter, which I did.  I'm always eager to get suggestions and new info.  You might consider checking it out and listen to a few Podcasts.  Maybe it is something that can be used to open up a discussion between you and your brother.

The book, ":)riven to Distraction" (by Hallowell and Ratey), was mentioned on the radio interview as well.  The book has been around for several years, but I think it may have been revised.  If you haven't read it, it is worth a read.

The radio host indicated he had ADD/ADHD as well.  He shared something I could relate to. He indicated that when he goes to the movie theater he is always eager to go, generally enjoys the movie, but after about half way through the movie, he is anxious to leave.  It isn't because he doesn't like the movie.  This probably seems strange to most people, but I could relate, as I have the same experience.

My brother 38  is extremely sensitive to other people's noise sometimes, much more than me. Ironically, at the same time, he can be one of the noisiest people I know.

Ironically, I tend to be a "loud talker" as well, LOL.  I've been told to "talk softer" at times in the work place.  It is something that is hard for me to consistently do.  Phone reception has a lot of variables these days.  If I have a hard time hearing someone, I know I talk louder, even if the problem is only with my reception.  If I'm enthused with a conversation, having a hard time getting my point across or irritated with a situation, my voice level is hard to control.  It is probably a situation where I would benefit by keeping a little written reminder by my phone, (Check your volume. Do you need to lower your voice?)

Maybe, you could catch your brother at a time when he is receptive and perhaps you can work something out with him, some signal that he will agree with, to get him to lower his voice. (i.e. wave a red flag when he is too loud, etc.).  Maybe you put yourself in the mix and say we will all wave the red flag at whomever is being too loud.   It doesn't have to be a red flag, but some sort of signal to get the person's attention without being angry. It could be an opportunity for a little humor.

Talking too loud is something I'm generally oblivious of.  I used to have an office teammate who was a "loud talker" as well. (the poor person between us, ).  Unfortunately, it won' be an issue that you bring up once and never have to mention it again.  When someone mentions I'm too loud, I'll make an effort to talk lower but after a period of time, I'll end up talking loud again at some point in the future.  It's like a lack a volumn control or it is broken most of the time.

Also at a recent family gathering, my uPDbro could not tolerate the noise of our nephew8 (sister's son) at play. Everyone else was tolerating it, but he couldn't. After our nephew ignored his request to quiet down, my uPDbro went out in the yard to escape the noise that was apparently tormenting him so much.

There can sometime be a fine line between children playing and making noise or children being very rowdy and out of control.  Some children scream their lungs out for extended periods of time. There is something about the pitch of a child's scream that can be a problem for some people.

Another way to look at it is that for your brother, the noise of the children playing , may have equated to the noise level in restaurants/bars that you like to avoid or the horn honking experience you had.  Not all people with ADD will react the same way to the same noises.  Some days, they may handle it better than others.

Working with family members can be a struggle, even in the best of circumstances.  I hope your brother can gain some skills to handle his ADD and maybe learn to use it to some benefit for him.

[isshebpd]

Is your brother in therapy?  What led him to seek a diagnosis?  Was that something he did on his own, or did something or someone prompt him?  :)oes he have a plan to manage his ADD in some way?  What behaviors of your brother would you identify as BPD, as opposed to ADD?

I'm fairly certain he is still in therapy. He seems to be having a harder time coping lately, but I can't say for sure what his motivation is, or whether it was anyone else's idea. He is on some sort of medication for his ADD.

I think he could have both ADD and a personality disorder (co-morbid). I'm not involved in his life much, other than when we have to work together at the family business. He is practically unemployable outside of the business because of his behaviour.

For example, he can rarely be relied on to be somewhere at a certain time, or to get anything done. The most reliable thing about him is he is predictably unreliable. If he is pressed about any of his commitments - if you can get him to make a commitment at all - he may go into a rage. Or he will play our parents against each other. This seems highly narcissistic to me.

He also is unable to organize his workspace. There are literally piles of junk around his computer that are a foot high. Sometimes the stuff topples and falls on the floor. It's been like that for many years, and he never cleans it up no matter how much our enDad pleads with him. I suppose this could be an ADD thing, but it is also highly narcissistic.

Our parents have let him behave like an over-grown child, and kept him a part of the business. In a few years, the business will probably be wrapped up. Our parents are almost 70 and, as much as my enDad likes what he is doing, are going to retire at some point. That is when my uPDbro will have to face the real world. How will he survive?

Perhaps he is starting realize he needs to change or end up sleeping under a bridge. Maybe that's why he's in therapy. Just a guess.

He also has a history of drinking and driving, and came very close to getting a criminal record. He got off on a technicality. I can think of few things more narcissistic than drinking and driving, especially at his age.

Thanks for the info about ADD. I'll look into it.

[Naughty Nibbler]

You brother may well be preparing for his future, and that is great! It might be the best thing that could have happened to him.  The problem with working in a family business for as long as he has, is that he seems to have gotten away with NOT learning how to deal with his various ADD type behaviors and challenges.  He needs to learn how to do many things in a different way.

There is a lot of information out there in regard to ADD coaching and strategy.  His medication may help, but some people have to quit, due to side effects.  The most important thing is to learn certain strategies that help ADD individuals deal with focus, organization and getting things done.  He needs the tools.  Some ADD people get an ADD Coach to help straighten them out. (it is generally different from therapy)

Disorganization and a messy desk is a big ADD thing.  Those without his level of ADD can't understand.  It sounds simple, just do it.  The worse it gets, the harder it is for the ADD person to start the cleanup.  It is a mixed bag of issues: Pressure to make it perfect (impossible), have to make decisions (keep it, throw it away, put it where?, etc.), then there is staying focused with the task at hand.

Tardiness is because he gets distracted along the way.  He underestimates the time he needs, he may try to do one more thing before he leaves or just loses track of time. 

I can see how someone with unmanaged ADD could present as a big overgrown inmature and selfish kid.  Sounds like your parents have taken it easy on him, perhaps not fully realizing that they were perpetuating something that could be managed better.  Hopefully with some good coaching, he can find his way.

I worked in a very large company for 35 years.  It is common for most work groups to have a few people who have a "messy desk problem".  There would always be cycles.  People were periodically forced to completely clear their desks for some visit by executive mgmt. or some important visitor.  It was always predictable, the same people's desk inched back to the prior cluttered condition.

There are a lot of books out there.  Just Google "Best Attention Deficit Disorder Books" and you will find a large selection to check out.

Here are a couple more ADD Websites:

www.addforums.com/

www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/1570.html

Best wishes!  Once your brother learns to manage his ADD, you might discover that some of his bad traits might improve.

[unicorn2014]

Do you think you have ptsd?

[isshebpd]

Do you think you have ptsd?

Me? I'm diagnosed with PTSD by a Psychologist. Somehow, I don't have a personality disorder.

[unicorn2014]

Ok you didn't mention it. How long and how do you treat it?

[isshebpd]

Ok you didn't mention it. How long and how do you treat it?

I should be in therapy, but it is expensive. I am on pills for my anxiety.

Mostly, I try to stay in touch with my feelings. This is a fairly new thing to me because, growing up with uBPDmom, I learned to suppress my feelings.

I try to keep myself out of stressful situations which means I can't do some work I used to do. My wife and I starting to do things like going for long walks and visiting our city's art gallery in our spare time. We are also arranging to get a cat. We had one for 17 years until it died of cancer. Having a pet again will help both of us... .and deal with our mice problem.

I'm also preparing myself for some difficult times with my FOO and the family business. My uBPDmom has been forcing my enDad to bring my uPDbro along on business trips. The last time was a shipshow and enDad wishes he could just go NC with him. He really pissed off enDad to the point that he is now making plans to get uPDbro out of the business. As uPDbro (GC) has always manipulated uBPDmom, this is causing huge fights between my parents and their marriage is now in danger.

My parents are almost 70 and, as dysfunctional as their marriage is, it is what they have. It has lasted almost 50 years.

If my uPDbro leaves the business graciously, he'll probably have a passive income for many years. It has really been passive for a long time, but my parents have also had to deal with his disruptive behaviour as well.

If not, my enDad might end up divorcing uBPDmom and cutting my uPDbro out of the business, with no more income. I don't know how uPDbro could work a regular job and how he could survive in the long run. Things might get very ugly.

My role in the business, which is basically admin support, may not longer be necessary at some point. But I have always worked in the real world, know how to be a reliable worker, know my place, and can take orders. My uPDbro can't.

[busybee1116]

There's one person at work that I can't stand. Long story, but at one time we worked together, I was her superior. She worked for me before I started therapy. My boundaries with her were not good and once I started therapy, I recognized this to be an issue. I tried setting some with her and it escalated to a point where she was insubordinate and yet not fired. I'm still angry about this... .but that's another story. She now works in a different part of the office and I don't have to interact with her directly. There are weeks that I don't even catch a glimpse of her. However, her cackling laugh carries and every time I hear her laugh, I cringe. I get mad. I am triggered. I'm especially triggered when I need quiet and I'm trying to concentrate, get work done. I discovered it was not just her laugh, but loud talking or people preparing lunch and banging plates together. I didn't realize it was just noise in general that bothered me. It was much easier to point at her and say--she's the one, it's obvious why. I now wear noise canceling headphones when I need quiet. They are amazing. It helped me realize not just her laugh. Now when I hear her cackle, I do try metta lovingkindness. I think "may you be happy and may I be happy". I know now she's an incredibly unhappy person and partly why she has dysfunctional relationships (not just with me). It helps. When I am triggered, I try to pause and ask... .why? What is going on with me that this bugs me right now? Sometimes the answer is--I'm stressed, I'm trying to get this done. I don't like being interrupted. Sometimes the answer is--I'm tired. or I'm hungry. Or I'm actually upset at someone else.  Whatever. And if you have PTSD, any noise can be triggering!

[isshebpd]

When I was in University, I encountered a "cackler" while volunteering. In this case, she also had a sidekick who mirrored her. They seemed to know they could upset me. I wasn't the only one they annoyed. A lot of people left the organization, including me, because of their bad behaviour. A few weeks after I learned she was no longer part of the organization. I suspect she was ousted from her position by those who remained. She later sort of apologized to me when I ran into her at a social function.

I guess the evil laugh is passive-aggressive. In this case, it eventually came back at her. But not before she messed with a lot of people.

At least, she's not your problem now.

Yeah, unpleasant noise is a huge issue for me. I grew with my uBPDmom's epic, endless rage fits. Any kind of raised voice grates me. Other loud noises too, if they are unexpected.