What is the truth?

[FlSunshineGirl]

It's been awhile since I've posted... .been doing some thinking about something since I recently found out my ex/BPD had sent me a text back in March (but I didn't receive it since I had him blocked on my phone.)

Some background on my situation, we had an on and off again 5 year relationship. He's got a past of cheating and quick rebound relationships.  Right before I ended things (January of 2015) I had found out he had been lining up someone behind my back and they quickly became a couple after we were over.

They lasted from January to April and as soon as they were over I got two emails from him and saw him parked at the entrance to my neighborhood one day. I never stopped. I've been strong and remained NC for a year and 4 months now that it's been over and we said goodbye. He hooked up with a new person right after my replacement and has been with her about a year now.

One year to the day we last spoke (January this year) I received another email from him saying again like in the previous two emails, how he missed me and not a day went buy that he didn't think of me.

Now I find out about his attempt to text me and he's in a relationship and I can only guess that from what I've seen and know of his patterns that they had a fight or things aren't going well.

Has anyone dealt with this type of situation?

So what is the truth? Do we mean anything to them? Is it all lies and manipulation of us by telling us how much they miss us and think of us to try to line up new supply in case they end up alone again? Do the people they replace us with mean anything either to them since they throw the word love around so easily and can replace us and replace them without a second thought?

Towards the end when he and I had a falling out I had found out he was searching for an ex he was with 18 years before!

So apparently I'm not the only one he has missed and thought about.

And he had also reached out to a different ex shortly after we were over but she was already in a relationship.

I just don't know what to think or believe anymore and this is messing with my head... .

[Hadlee]

A lot of people will say it's manipulation, etc.  The behavior does come across as manipulative, however it's their way of coping with life amidst the inner turmoil they are in 24/7.  Anything to soothe the pain, so they will do whatever it takes to feel relief.  It's the way they cope.  And reaching out to a person who once soothed them is a way to relieve the pain in that moment.

I honestly believe they mean it when they say they miss us.  They miss the way we used to make them feel. They felt safe with us for a time, until they didn't.  They love us as best they know how.  It's not a mature love like we know it, it's the love only a BPD is capable of, which is the stuff a teenage crush is made up of.  

It's totally understandable that it is messing with your head.  Are you wanting to break NC and speak with him or are you able to accept what he says at face value then let it go?  Kind of like saying to yourself, "Ok great. You miss me.  That's lovely.  Now, what am I going to have for dinner."

[Ahoy]

"Oh no my current partner isn't fulfilling my needs any more and I don't have anyone lined up. Wait I remember SunshineGirl, she was useful for a while, actually now I think about it we had a unique love, not like this loser I'm with"

10 minutes later

"SunshineGirl didn't respond. That's right I hated her, how did I forget that. Oh wow I need someone to make me feel better, hey that girl is cute, I'm going to ask her out for coffee, I bet she can soothe me, yeah, everything is going to be ok. SunshineGirl who?"

My crappy attempt to understand a BPD mind searching for new attachment/recycle. Did not mean to cause any offense by it!


i'm with busy, whats IS for dinner?

[FlSunshineGirl]

Hi Busygall, thank you for replying to my post. I agree with what you said in your post. Maybe they do mean what they say, even if those feelings are fleeting and I believe they definitely do it to soothe their inner pain. I feel like it's also kind of like drug seeking behavior (my ex was a former addict as well) and he's in search of some sort of high he would get from contact from me (or whoever else takes his bait and reaches out to him.)

I've played the scenario in my head... .what I would say to him if I replied back, what he might say in return... .but I can honestly say that I am not going to break NC and set myself back in the healing that's taken place over all these months since he's been out of my life.

Our last conversation he said time healed all wounds and he knew he'd see me again. He also didn't understand how we couldn't be best friends. Ha!

Part of me wants to prove him wrong and show him that we won't be talking or seeing each other again and when I said goodbye I meant forever.

He even asked me when I said goodbye "you mean forever?" like a little kid would ask... .

[FlSunshineGirl]

Ahoy, I think that's probably exactly what goes on in his mind!

I needed that laugh. Thank you! 

Busy, I can't wait to get to the "oh great he misses me, what's for dinner" instead of having a "What the heck does this mean?, was any of it real?" moments that his contact brings me.

[Hadlee]

I won't speak for all pwBPD, they may follow the same script, but they are also individuals.  I'll share what I observed with mine.  I don't believe they realize goodbye is forever as that means true abandonment.  I like the analogy of being a toy... .we are placed safely on the shelf while they have other distractions (supply).  We are expected to remain there until such time as they reach out for that toy again.  They wouldn't dare dream that the toy is no longer there... .it can't be... .they placed it there themselves... .to be safe until next time.

Yes, they can be like a child, which is very sad to see.  The whole thing is sad.

Judging from past behavior, I suspect mine will reach out eventually, and I hope to goodness I don't go back to over thinking things.  I'll remember to ask myself, "What's for dinner?"

[FlSunshineGirl]

Yes, goodbye forever would be true abandonment which is what they fear most.

Do you think at some point he will stop trying to contact me and realize it really is forever?

How long has it been since you've heard from your ex busy?

[Hadlee]

Do you think at some point he will stop trying to contact me and realize it really is forever?

Honestly?  I really don't know.  Reading stories on this board and elsewhere indicates some usually make contact, if they can.  I'm starting to believe the only way to truly be free from pwBPD who do come back is NC.

Last contact for me was a few months ago with my ex.  I've blocked him everywhere now!

I've also dealt with the end of a friendship with a pwBPD after I split with the ex as well.  Lucky me!  Fortunately, after all the research I did regarding my ex, I was able to recognize what was happening when she started flipping out.  She is proving to be more toxic than he was   I have been NC with her for a couple of months now.  During that time I've had an increase of "strange online activity" i.e. someone trying to hack into my online accounts, fake friend requests on Facebook, etc.  Knowing her, and what she was like with other friends, I would say she is leading up to contacting me.  Hope I am wrong  

[SoMadSoSad]

If goodbye forever is abandonment then what does that say about the ones that are considered the "cut off" type that we never hear from again?

[Hadlee]

If goodbye forever is abandonment then what does that say about the ones that are considered the "cut off" type that we never hear from again?

As I said, I'm not speaking for all pwBPD, only the ones that have been in my life.  Goodbye is not forever in their case.

[FlSunshineGirl]

SoMad, my opinion in their case is they have split you black. Maybe for some they never get split white again, maybe the shame for the ex is so great they can't bear to make contact again and potentially get rejected.

[C.Stein]

With respect to my ex I think any contact from her will be to seek validation that she is not a bad person.  I don't believe it would be for any other reason.

SoMad, my opinion in their case is they have split you black. Maybe for some they never get split white again, maybe the shame for the ex is so great they can't bear to make contact again and potentially get rejected.

This could happen.  I believe this is what happened with my ex, and even though she contacted me once in an attempt to return some stuff, I believe her shame and guilt will keep her silent as it had up to that point, that is until she "forgets" why she would even have a reason to feel shame and guilt.  Then she will seek validation because she wants desperately to be seen as a good person.

[JQ]

Hey guys,

this is a good string. Sunshine girl, to answer your question, "So what is the truth?" "how he missed me and not a day went buy that he didn't think of me."   I've asked that question many times myself in my pursuit of learning all that I can about BPD.

Like so many here I was recycled more than once by my exBPDgf. She had told me more then once the same thing, "I've missed you and not a day goes by that I didn't think about you".   She also told me more than once, "I love you", and I asked her, "What does that mean to you?".  Her response, "That's a great question, I don't know".  We tried to discuss it but she kinda changed the subject since it made her a little uncomfortable. This is a woman who is Ivy league educated and has 2 Masters and she has a hard time articulating "what loves means to her".

I truly believe that she did have a hard time trying to understand that due to her BPD, some analogies that have been expressed here might apply in addition to others. The toy to be put up on the shelf when I'm bored with it only to be brought down later to see if I get the same pleasure and love from it later".

As busy points out, "I honestly believe they mean it when they say they miss us.  They miss the way we used to make them feel. They felt safe with us for a time, until they didn't.  They love us as best they know how."   I would agree with her on this statement, at least in my case.  In fact, I remembering my exBPDgf telling me, "I'm trying to love you the best I know how".  Again, I asked "what does that mean to you?"  She told me she didn't know. I truly believe she wasn't dodging the question. I now know after so much reading and educating myself on BPD that she actually didn't know what "loving someone" was meant to be. Her mental illness prevented her from learning this, or at least her mental illness warped what the meaning was in her case.

The push/pull, abandonment/engulfment emotions come into play here and it's so overwhelming to them. I've really come to learn that they are so frustrated themselves trying to truly understand why they behave the way they do. They really want to find love, be with someone, but their brain is actually physically broken, this affects the ability for them to fully understand or behave in a manner that we would like them too. Unfortunately from my studies, conversations, education, I understand that they will never fully be able to repair themselves. That the best ANYONE can hope for is some level of behavioral modification IF they, the s/o, the T can all work together. I also understand that there will be setbacks, and failures in this process. BPD is a brutal mental illness without equal & without a good outcome for so many. As Busygall said, "The whole thing is sad".

For some NONs, they only way they can get past this point is to be angry with their BPD for cheating on them. To be angry with their BPD for the chaos, drama, the day in and day out raging, and the list goes on.  I don't judge anyone, if it takes someone to be angry to get past their BPD r/s, then that is what works for them.  If it helps them move forward to find a r/s that works for them then so be it.

I know from personal experience as Busygall says, "Goodbye is not forever in their case."   I've come to learn that there are no absolutes in life except death & taxes.      

I know that there will be a really good chance my exBPDgf will reach out and pull me off the shelf once again. I'm much more educated, wiser in the ways of BPD then I was when I was put up on that shelf.  In order to play, it takes two. Will I play?  I seriously doubt it ... .

J

[MapleBob]

If goodbye forever is abandonment then what does that say about the ones that are considered the "cut off" type that we never hear from again?

Mine was initially firmly the "some day" type, but when I said "uhhhh no, you don't get to come and go from relationships as you please, that's messed up" she agreed to be in contact with me in an effort to establish friendship (or whatever, I don't really know exactly what we thought we were doing during that time). When that wasn't working out she became the "cut off" type. At least so far (haven't spoken in five months).

It may not be as cut and dry or black and white as we'd like it to be.

[FlSunshineGirl]

Thank you JQ and everyone who has responded and shared their views and stories on this topic. Very valid opinions from everyone and what you all have said makes sense in light of these relationships.

JQ, I know I'm finally able to let go of so much anger that I've held in concerning my ex.

I think I did hold on to a lot of it for a long time because I was afraid if I let it go I'd allow myself to get sucked back in. Another reason I held on was thinking if I let it go it's like believing his behavior was ok. I know better now, I can let go of the anger and get to a place of forgiveness for ME, so I can heal and move on.

Another thought I had in processing this new information, was maybe them missing us and reaching out after a period of time is because they rush into a new relationship so fast and bury any pain that the end of a relationship brings and now they are finally grieving the loss (as much as they can) since the new "shiny toy" isn't bringing pleasure at the moment.

The toy analogy is a great analogy. It explains a lot.

I really appreciate all of you helping me sort through this.  

[Fr4nz]

If goodbye forever is abandonment then what does that say about the ones that are considered the "cut off" type that we never hear from again?

They exist, definitely. Mine is. However, they usually keep tabs on you by other means... .for example, by looking at your facebook profile regularly (mine does this).

Probably, it is their way of maintaining some sort of connection.

[john83]

It's been awhile since I've posted... .been doing some thinking about something since I recently found out my ex/BPD had sent me a text back in March (but I didn't receive it since I had him blocked on my phone.)

Some background on my situation, we had an on and off again 5 year relationship. He's got a past of cheating and quick rebound relationships.  Right before I ended things (January of 2015) I had found out he had been lining up someone behind my back and they quickly became a couple after we were over.

They lasted from January to April and as soon as they were over I got two emails from him and saw him parked at the entrance to my neighborhood one day. I never stopped. I've been strong and remained NC for a year and 4 months now that it's been over and we said goodbye. He hooked up with a new person right after my replacement and has been with her about a year now.

One year to the day we last spoke (January this year) I received another email from him saying again like in the previous two emails, how he missed me and not a day went buy that he didn't think of me.

Now I find out about his attempt to text me and he's in a relationship and I can only guess that from what I've seen and know of his patterns that they had a fight or things aren't going well.

Has anyone dealt with this type of situation?

So what is the truth? Do we mean anything to them? Is it all lies and manipulation of us by telling us how much they miss us and think of us to try to line up new supply in case they end up alone again? Do the people they replace us with mean anything either to them since they throw the word love around so easily and can replace us and replace them without a second thought?

Towards the end when he and I had a falling out I had found out he was searching for an ex he was with 18 years before!

So apparently I'm not the only one he has missed and thought about.

And he had also reached out to a different ex shortly after we were over but she was already in a relationship.

I just don't know what to think or believe anymore and this is messing with my head... .

Hi FISunshineGirl... .re read your post... .I think you've answered you're own question. Sounds like he's been messing with your head for a while, and continues to mess with those of others... .Leopards and Spots!

I know that close contact with a pwBPD will leave you with many unresolved questions and emotional detritus; this may also continue for far longer than the barbs of a failed r/s with a nonBPD. In some ways, the 'controlling' continues in his/her absence but it's important to realize that you are now effectively doing this to yourself... .you don't have to open his emails, or read his texts, yet you're choosing to do so... .don't get me wrong, I understand why you did it, and I hope you recognize that I'm not being harsh or unsympathetic... .just don't go there! keep everything blocked... .no sneaky peaks on FB or whatever... .you know this already.

My exBPD sold me a story when we first met... .I bought it... .it may be true, it may be a crock of sh*t... .I didn't question any of it while the blinkers were on... .now they're off, I have my doubts... .does it make me feel any better to ruminate over what bits were true, and what bits were BS? Not one iota... .it just keeps me on the roller coaster. I'm determined that this emotional harridan won't get the better of me... .(do i sound bitter? Hell Yes!  )

Rejoice that you've had the strength to escape from his psychological clutches, remind yourself of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth... .get with the bitterness, for a day or two, then treat yourself to something nice... .Don't let this creep creep back in  

It's early days for me, so this is how I feel right now. Perhaps in time, I'll feel more compassion towards her. 

[FlSunshineGirl]

Hey John,

Thank you for your response.

You're right, opening and reading the emails are a choice I'm making and I could choose to just delete them instead of reading them and letting this guy take up more space in my head.

Curiosity gets the best of me though.  Maybe I'm looking for an apology in them, which never comes of course. Maybe I just want to hear how miserable he is now... .

I won't let the "creep, creep back" into my life. 

There is calm and peace now without him where there once was chaos and turmoil with him. I feel thankful every day that it ended!

[FlSunshineGirl]

If goodbye forever is abandonment then what does that say about the ones that are considered the "cut off" type that we never hear from again?

They exist, definitely. Mine is. However, they usually keep tabs on you by other means... .for example, by looking at your facebook profile regularly (mine does this).

Probably, it is their way of maintaining some sort of connection.

I know my ex was a huge stalker like that. Even when we were together he always lurked on my Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram... .

I think you're right and one reason for them doing that is a way for them to feel connected.

[FlSunshineGirl]

[/quote]
Mine was initially firmly the "some day" type, but when I said "uhhhh no, you don't get to come and go from relationships as you please, that's messed up" she agreed to be in contact with me in an effort to establish friendship (or whatever, I don't really know exactly what we thought we were doing during that time). When that wasn't working out she became the "cut off" type. At least so far (haven't spoken in five months).

It may not be as cut and dry or black and white as we'd like it to be.[/quote]
My ex did that too... .

Try to break up and cut me out of his life and then a few hours later I'd get a panicked email, call or text (or show up at my place) begging to take him back.

[MapleBob]

Mine was initially firmly the "some day" type, but when I said "uhhhh no, you don't get to come and go from relationships as you please, that's messed up" she agreed to be in contact with me in an effort to establish friendship (or whatever, I don't really know exactly what we thought we were doing during that time). When that wasn't working out she became the "cut off" type. At least so far (haven't spoken in five months).

It may not be as cut and dry or black and white as we'd like it to be.

My ex did that too... .

Try to break up and cut me out of his life and then a few hours later I'd get a panicked email, call or text (or show up at my place) begging to take him back.

Mine never really did THAT (she would never come right out and say that she wanted me again romantically - though she hinted at it, long story), but the one time I actually steeled myself up to walk out on our "friendship" (because she was acting extra nuts) she sent me flowers and promised that she was committed to us being in each other's lives. Three months later she was gone. "It's just easier this way", she said.

[FlSunshineGirl]

Maplebob, I misread what you wrote and thought it said the "same day" type. Meaning break up and want back together the same day.

Lol

My ex kept insisting we could be great friends, best friends after we would break up. He didn't have any friends and I don't want to stick around and have him use me to meet his needs then one day drop me on my head when a better source came along for him.

He would throw friendships away and say he wasn't into superficial friendships.

His last email to me this past January he signed off "take care my friend". Apparently I'm still his friend whether I like it or not! Haha

[Phenomenal Woman]

I wish I knew of this board 2 years ago, it would have saved me from a lot of grief. My exBPDbf/daf, was notorious for "same day" break ups, initially it hahad no impact on me. But 3 months into the r/s I started to get fed up and began to request to be left alone or for him to allow me to process things or space to recoup... .Ahha... .looking back I continued to feed a brewing monster. But during the moment not realizing it was BPD symptoms, I would complain about everything being on his time, his lack if patience, boundaries, blah blah blah... .that never sunk in... .when I started to get fee up, I would block him or not answer the door. You can imagine his reaction. But I would take him back again not realizing the recycling is a part of the disorder... .and the cycle would start all over again with EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. So I learned I was pregnant 9 months after meeting him. I thought the pregnancy would be suffice to abate his fears of the same abandonment and rejection that he continuously projected onto me. Nope not at all. He  was already nasty when he got ready but he became  beyond disgusting and threatening. Long story short   I enforced an OOP. I was not going to loose our daughter over stress... .So he had no choice but to respect the "cut off". He told.me.he wanted to call many times but did not. I imagine because he did not want to go back to jail, yup I had him arrested for threatening our life. Based on his erratic and intense behaviors I didn't know what he was capable of at that point. Fast foward I give birth, I allow him opportunity to know his daughter, I leaned that I was replaced he drops replacement gets back with me cycle starts alllll over again. Oh wait in the midst of all if this I have an observant 6 yo who is not his child but bonded with him and who tbecame affected by his coming and going in the past but NOW is 2 steps away from being emotionally scarred behind his symptoms! Remember our baby we had, she is 7 months old and she too started crying in his last episode of him yelling that its over. Thus far it seems like this is the big " cut off"... .I dont know, I haven't heard from him. He blocked me on FB as if I did something to him and I believe he called my job by accident (late on a Sunday evening)  in the attempt to erase my contact and dialed  by accident. I guess the money will keep the "cut off" going because he owes me CS and he is already funny with money and strange with change.

[john83]

Hey John,

Thank you for your response.

You're right, opening and reading the emails are a choice I'm making and I could choose to just delete them instead of reading them and letting this guy take up more space in my head.

Curiosity gets the best of me though.  Maybe I'm looking for an apology in them, which never comes of course. Maybe I just want to hear how miserable he is now... .

I won't let the "creep, creep back" into my life. 

There is calm and peace now without him where there once was chaos and turmoil with him. I feel thankful every day that it ended!

I don't think you'll ever get an unreserved apology... .the only 'apologies' I ever received from my ex (whilst we were still together) were merely prefaces to accusations/guilt-tripping... .

eg. "I'm sorry I hurt you but it's because I can't trust you and you won't allow me to have any expectations... ." 

that sort of shizzle

Schadenfreude (and curiosity) will keep you attached... .I'm looking forward to complete and utter indifference

[john83]

I wish I knew of this board 2 years ago, it would have saved me from a lot of grief. My exBPDbf/daf, was notorious for "same day" break ups, initially it hahad no impact on me. But 3 months into the r/s I started to get fed up and began to request to be left alone or for him to allow me to process things or space to recoup... .Ahha... .looking back I continued to feed a brewing monster. But during the moment not realizing it was BPD symptoms, I would complain about everything being on his time, his lack if patience, boundaries, blah blah blah... .that never sunk in... .when I started to get fee up, I would block him or not answer the door. You can imagine his reaction. But I would take him back again not realizing the recycling is a part of the disorder... .and the cycle would start all over again with EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. So I learned I was pregnant 9 months after meeting him. I thought the pregnancy would be suffice to abate his fears of the same abandonment and rejection that he continuously projected onto me. Nope not at all. He  was already nasty when he got ready but he became  beyond disgusting and threatening. Long story short   I enforced an OOP. I was not going to loose our daughter over stress... .So he had no choice but to respect the "cut off". He told.me.he wanted to call many times but did not. I imagine because he did not want to go back to jail, yup I had him arrested for threatening our life. Based on his erratic and intense behaviors I didn't know what he was capable of at that point. Fast foward I give birth, I allow him opportunity to know his daughter, I leaned that I was replaced he drops replacement gets back with me cycle starts alllll over again. Oh wait in the midst of all if this I have an observant 6 yo who is not his child but bonded with him and who tbecame affected by his coming and going in the past but NOW is 2 steps away from being emotionally scarred behind his symptoms! Remember our baby we had, she is 7 months old and she too started crying in his last episode of him yelling that its over. Thus far it seems like this is the big " cut off"... .I dont know, I haven't heard from him. He blocked me on FB as if I did something to him and I believe he called my job by accident (late on a Sunday evening)  in the attempt to erase my contact and dialed  by accident. I guess the money will keep the "cut off" going because he owes me CS and he is already funny with money and strange with change.

Wow Phenomenal Woman... .and there was I thinking I had it bad! Following my ex's tirades I'd often chose not to contact her for a day or two, for two main reasons: firstly, like you, I really needed some time to try and process what had happened (as it was as confusing as it was hurtful and upsetting); secondly, I'd feel that she ought to be the one to contact me to apologize for her abusive behaviour. When I'd calmed down and her call wasn't forthcoming, I'd 'phone... .she'd then say I was a game-player and toying with her heart! Nothing was ever her fault... .I was always to blame  

Your situation sounds awful, if you don't mind me saying. I know it may seem like small consolation, but atleast the authorities are aware of his tendencies. That must've taken some strength on your part to make the call. The fewer dealings you have with this guy the better... .not that you need me to tell you. I don't know how the Law stands in the US, but here in the UK, if someone has threatened your life, you have grounds to take out a restraining order, and any access rights to children may be forfeited, if you can demonstrate that to provide access is damaging or potentially harmful to the child's welfare... .CS is still a requisite

There's a world of a difference between being a responsible dad and merely the biological father... .

Take care of yourself and your kids