Wife is charming right now. I need help

[Wize]

2 weeks separated, I filed for divorce.  We're texting back and forth right now. She's telling me she doesn't want the divorce and then she'll say something like, but I'm doing so much better now that you're gone.  And then she says, but divorce is never the answer.  I'm feel like my head is spinning. I just want our marriage to work.  I'm losing her more and more.  Help please.

[Turkish]

Hello Wize,

What brought you to the point of filing? How long were you planning this?

Turkish

[Wize]

Hello Wize,

What brought you to the point of filing? How long were you planning this?

Turkisj

Our marriage was exceedingly painful and quarrelsome.  All the BPD symptoms.  There was no love exchanged ,really and I saw no way to get better.  Especially once I realized that she has BPD.  Just, so painful and negative everyday. 

[Turkish]

This is a tough point. Divorce by definition is adverserial, even those that are relatively amicable. You sound conflicted, however, saying you want it to work. Can you dig into that? What don't you want to lose?

Any kids?

[Wize]

This is a tough point. Divorce by definition is adverserial, even those that are relatively amicable. You sound conflicted, however, saying you want it to work. Can you dig into that? What don't you want to lose?

Any kids?

Just her 3 kids from a previous marriage.  What I don't want to lose is my wife and our future together, the potential for something better, something more loving.  But, in spite of all her degrees and education, she just doesn't seem to grasp the most basic principles of relationships; selflessness, empathy and love.  Not passive love but active love.  She just doesn't know how to do it.  

I have been hopeful that she can have enough insight to say "all these trashed relationships in my life have left me alone, all except my kids.  Maybe there's something wrong with me."  She doesn't have the ability to look closely at the mirror and tell herself what she really sees. I think looking in the mirror is a terribly frightening prospect for her.  So many years of covering up the shame by over-achieving.  Flaunting her success to people but being a disaster at home.  It's like she doesn't need any sort of deep relationship.  Just someone to give her that validation she was taught to value above all else. When I begin to break through one of the layers in her BPD armor, she immediately clams up and accuses me of attacking.  

I left our conversation tonight telling her how much I loved her but sticking to my guns and leaving the ultimatum intact.  Either she get's treatment for her BPD or the divorce process will continue. She admits she has acute anxiety and she admits she may of attachment issues.  That's as far as she'll go at this point.  Either way, I think we're getting divorced.  I don't know.  

[Wize]

I'm starting to think that she doesn't want me back because she loves me and I her, she wants me back because of what I can do for her idealist vision and her image in public.  I think that somewhere in there she truly does love me, but it's just buried beneath the selfishness and desire for self preservation.  I don't see her as just a pwBPD, I see her as a real person.  She has been very real to me, with times of true connection and possibly even love.  I don't know though.  The whole damn thing is so confusing. 

I almost feel like letting myself get recycled but this time with the knowledge of her BPD. Before I left I didn't know she had BPD, I just knew something was totally effed up with her.  So maybe get recycled, go back and see if anything was real; the nights laying in bed with her, chatting into the wee hours, the rare mornings when we would step outside and watch the sunrise while holding each other.  I want to know if it was real or just her doing and saying whatever she needs to keep me with her. 

[KarmasReal]

Hey wize,

I understand exactly where you are coming from in fact I've said many of the same things you just recently posted. My exBPD too seemed extremely concerned with an idealized image to give other people.

I've also wondered under my exes selfishness and and disordered mentality if she loved me. We had the same amazing conversations, up all night, sharing, seeing the first snow, the words, the smells, everything felt hypnotic and wondrous.

We eventually had a break up over a year ago and that's when I found out about BPD. 6 weeks later I was recycled or we got back together whichever term is the truth, I'm not sure. And I thought to myself now that I know what BPD is I can handle things better and really see where this goes.

That lasted a 3 or 4 months. Everyday you spend you slowly forget BPD and they are the person again. The person you love who you want love from. Then once they no your guard is down, and trust me they know, they flip that switch again, and the cruel words, selfishness, depression, anger, all come back slowly but surely. There's no way to protect yourself against it. There's no way to handle it better you would have to be on guard 24 hours a day. Is that how you want to live your life? Just some thoughts from my own experiences. Hope this helps.

[Mutt]

Hi Wize,



I'm sorry to hear that it's difficult for you. I can see how it would feel hopeless, stressful and emotionally exhausting when you're facing the possibility of divorce.

A pwBPD can be very self absorbed when they are feeling emotionally overwhelmed, it's hard for the person to think about someone else's needs. I can relate with going through a crisis and being self absorbed and feeling like I wasn't there for family and friends.

She admits she has acute anxiety and she admits she may of attachment issues.  That's as far as she'll go at this point

Anxiety and attachment issues is a good start. BPD is heavily stigmatized and anxiety and depression are more socially acceptable, people are often judgmental of others that suffer from a severe mental illness. It think that it's hard to anybody, disordered or non-disordered to look in the mirror.

When I begin to break through one of the layers in her BPD armor, she immediately clams up and accuses me of attacking.

I touched on BPD stigmatization and non-acceptance, how do you break-through a kink in the armor? At the moment, it sounds like things are difficult for both of you, a break-down.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Wize, I'm sorry to hear that you are stressed out and having second thoughts about filing for divorce.  Presumably you filed for a reason, so if I could make a suggestion, it would be to focus on why your marriage broke down in the first place and the reasons why you filed for divorce.  What makes you think any of these things/reasons will change if you elect to recycle?  Sometimes a recycle only makes it that much more painful to leave down the line (I did it, so I should know).  You seem to be considering whether she really wants you back or not.  I would flip that around and try to figure out if YOU really want her back.  Your thoughts and feelings are paramount here, not hers.

LuckyJim

[C.Stein]

Hey Wize, I'm sorry to hear that you are stressed out and having second thoughts about filing for divorce.  Presumably you filed for a reason, so if I could make a suggestion, it would be to focus on why your marriage broke down in the first place and the reasons why you filed for divorce.  What makes you think any of these things/reasons will change if you elect to recycle?

I'll add to this with another question.  What would it take to make the relationship work, on both yours and her part?

[Wize]

Hey Wize, I'm sorry to hear that you are stressed out and having second thoughts about filing for divorce.  Presumably you filed for a reason, so if I could make a suggestion, it would be to focus on why your marriage broke down in the first place and the reasons why you filed for divorce.  What makes you think any of these things/reasons will change if you elect to recycle?

I'll add to this with another question.  What would it take to make the relationship work, on both yours and her part?

It would take her accepting her BPD and getting treatment. Otherwise, as we all know, a pwBPD doesn't really have anything to offer another person. I won't stay in a relationship where I receive no love, empathy or real communication. I won't stay in a relationship when I get nothing.

[Wize]

I texted one last thing to my wife before I went no contact today. I told her that this is her one true opportunity to accept and get help. Otherwise the divorce will continue and our relationship will be over. She is alone, truly. She has no friends, family is estranged and she gets her kids 6 days a month. You'd think someone like that would be a bit more aware of how screwed up they are. But she still blames everyone else and has just watched people come and go in her life. She's seen it so much that she's come to expect nothing more. So dam sad.

[Lucky Jim]

I won't stay in a relationship where I receive no love, empathy or real communication. I won't stay in a relationship when I get nothing.

Hey Wize, I agree and admire your courage.  LJ

[Icanteven]

Hey Wize, I'm sorry to hear that you are stressed out and having second thoughts about filing for divorce.  Presumably you filed for a reason, so if I could make a suggestion, it would be to focus on why your marriage broke down in the first place and the reasons why you filed for divorce.  What makes you think any of these things/reasons will change if you elect to recycle?

I'll add to this with another question.  What would it take to make the relationship work, on both yours and her part?

It would take her accepting her BPD and getting treatment. Otherwise, as we all know, a pwBPD doesn't really have anything to offer another person. I won't stay in a relationship where I receive no love, empathy or real communication. I won't stay in a relationship when I get nothing.

You're a braver man than I;  had endured, in retrospect, years of next to nothing in the way of empathy or love or communication.  Oh, honey, your job is a pressure cooker that would eat most people alive, and you're operating without a safety net as the sole income for our family right now?  That's too bad.  BTW, you won't believe what this woman did to me at the grocery store today [spends five minutes telling an inane story about a situation where the appropriate response would have been "excuse me" and the end of the story]!

I wonder why we're ok with getting nothing for as long as we do?   I mean, I don't need gifts, I need your love and energy and time.  I can't even get that and  put up with it anyway?  Again, makes me wonder about my own pathologies. 

[Wize]

"I wonder why we're ok with getting nothing for as long as we do?"

Because, in all honesty, we don't really get nothing. We get to have someone, we get sex, we get those rare moments of affection, we get to share experiences with someone, we get smiles, kisses, sometimes hugs, someone to look at and at least try to feel hopeful. But all those things don't sustain our heart and soul the way we need. We need something deeper; love, a true connection. Two lives and two hearts joining together. We don't get that with our BPD partners. For me, well, I have people in my life who offer me that; friends and family. So it's extremely hard to settle for less when I know I can have so much more.

It truly tears me up to walk away from my wife and leave her life, but she needs to learn that people serve more of a purpose than just placating your emotions. I won't be cheapened by my wife.

[Icanteven]

"I wonder why we're ok with getting nothing for as long as we do?"

Because, in all honesty, we don't really get nothing. We get to have someone, we get sex, we get those rare moments of affection, we get to share experiences with someone, we get smiles, kisses, sometimes hugs, someone to look at and at least try to feel hopeful. But all those things don't sustain our heart and soul the way we need.

This is the nuance my post was missing.  When my wife kisses me, I am transported to the first kiss of my teenage years.  Only it feels that way with her every single time we kiss.  That kiss can erase an entire day's worth of misery.  Hell, that kiss can launch 1,000 ships.  

Just typing that made me remember why I dealt with all of everything for as long as I did:  the chemistry between us was unparalleled in my own personal life and a source of jealousy/bemusement for others.  

Leaving aside the family issues we have to sort out, I think that's my deepest fear: that I will never experience the chemistry I share with my wife with anyone else, because, in the end, that's what kept me around through the ups and downs of our courtship and engagement and ultimate marriage:  you connect with me on a level I didn't know existed before I met you and worry doesn't exist without you.

This whole conversation is fodder for my next meeting with my T.  Is that what this comes down to?  My wife - despite all the bad stuff - takes me to a place I didn't know existed and worry I can't get back to, so I put up with everything else to go to that place with her?  Hmmmm... .

[Wize]

That's the loss, right there. That feeling that we will never have what we have with our wives again, with anyone else. And that's just a mental, emotional trap. Why?  Because it simply isn't true. What makes two people right for each other is that they can unify and make a stronger unit than if they remained separate. When you join with someone and they actually make you weaker, worse. Well, you may have all the huggy, kissy, sexual goodness but end up feeling incomplete, unfulfilled.

[C.Stein]

Leaving aside the family issues we have to sort out, I think that's my deepest fear: that I will never experience the chemistry I share with my wife with anyone else, because, in the end, that's what kept me around through the ups and downs of our courtship and engagement and ultimate marriage:  you connect with me on a level I didn't know existed before I met you and worry doesn't exist without you.

You won't ever experience it again.  The chemistry you share with your wife, the chemistry I shared with my ex, is and will always be unique to her.  It can never be duplicated because the chemistry was our chemistry.  I have had amazing chemistry with others in my past, in some ways better than with my exBPD and in some significant ways not.  I do miss that connection and bond dearly but it slowly got undermined by her over the course of our relationship until there was almost nothing left.  What used to be immensely significant and intimate to me became a chore.  I became a tool to placate her needs ... .a catalyst to keep her own chemistry active.  

Chemically speaking the bond between a pwBPD and their partner is an ionic bond not a covalent bond.

The important thing to remember here is no matter how special it was, the chemistry is a combination of two people.  We are just as much responsible for that chemistry as they are.   We can achieve that type of chemistry and bond with another if we can allow ourselves to truly open up to another person again.  That is the dark part of the damage that is done to us over the course of a relationship with a pwBPD.  We have to make sure we are aware of this because the tendency will be to keep walls up that will prevent us from ever finding/feeling that perfect chemistry again.

[Lucky Jim]

When you join with someone and they actually make you weaker, worse. Well, you may have all the huggy, kissy, sexual goodness but end up feeling incomplete, unfulfilled.

Wize: I think your point is well taken (above).

C. Stein: For me the chemistry was highly combustible, capable of an explosion any time.  I'm not into chemistry but I liken it to two elements that shouldn't be combined because they are extremely unstable together.  Sure, it's powerful, but in a dangerous way.

LuckyJim

[Zon]

When you join with someone and they actually make you weaker, worse. Well, you may have all the huggy, kissy, sexual goodness but end up feeling incomplete, unfulfilled.

Now, I am really depressed.  I did not really even get those.  Even hugs could be a trigger because she was "busy".

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'm asking this to understand, and maybe your answer will help us both.

You filed for divorce, right?

To get divorced, right?

Because I almost read this as you filed for divorce because you really, deep down, want your marriage to work.

That sounds incongruous.  I believe that it's almost impossible to un-say you want a divorce.  I doubt things will get better.  She may seduce you back, but there will be heck to pay later.

... .

But, you did say you have good chemistry with her.  I don't know what that's like. 

[Wize]

I'm asking this to understand, and maybe your answer will help us both.

You filed for divorce, right?

To get divorced, right?

Because I almost read this as you filed for divorce because you really, deep down, want your marriage to work.

That sounds incongruous.  I believe that it's almost impossible to un-say you want a divorce.  I doubt things will get better.  She may seduce you back, but there will be heck to pay later.

... .

But, you did say you have good chemistry with her.  I don't know what that's like. 

Fair question. Yes, I filed for divorce because I know in my head and heart that it's over. I question my decision because I still love her... .or the idea of her. There absolutely are conflicting emotions on my part. But the divorce is not something I'm really conflicted about. It's a roller coaster ride, regardless of how certain I am that a divorce has to happen. My stbxw is an absolute disaster and the most toxic person I've ever come across in my 43 years.

[SamwizeGamgee]

I get the mixed emotions.  I was ambivalent for most of last year.  In my situation, I am sticking it out, but only on a set timeline.  I don't yet say for me that it's an absolute certainty to get divorced, but, I think I feel much less "still in love" than you.

It's not easy!