Next step...advice needed

[raytamtay3]

Advice needed.  So my DD is on a waiting list for the therapeutic foster care which could take 2 - 4 weeks.  It sounds like a good program in that she will receive intensive outpatient therapy, attend school, earn privileges with good behavior and basically live with more structure than I can provide as I work full time.  Thing is, DD doesn't want to wait. She wants to "start her time now".  There are two other options.  One is a place called New Hope that is 2 hours from our house.  They say they are a dual diagnoses facility, but they focus more on the 12 steps.  The other is a dual diagnoses place as well that is more local.  :)D heard good things about the one 2 hours away.  It is a 3 - 6 month program.

I haven't told DD that this time if she goes to a residential treatment center, I will be having her go to a group home prior to coming home so that I can ensure she can do what she needs to keep herself safe as they have less restrictions than RTCs.  Also, I don't like the fact that the other place is 2 hours away because I am suppose to be involved and attend family sessions and all, and I cannot drive 4 hours (to and from) for visits and things of that nature.  Our CMO thinks that keeping her more local would be better.

My question is this.  :)o I tell my DD our plan of if she goes to an RTC she will have to do a step down program prior to coming home or do I not?

Do you think the therapeutic foster home would be better suited under our circumstances or should I have her go to an RTC?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Yepanotherone]

I don't have any experience with the RTc or therapeutic foster homes so I can't comment on that Ray, but in regards to your first question, I think I'd be inclined to keep the information about plans for a step down group home quiet for now . Just take one part of the process at a time , step by step, just to avoid your DD becoming too overwhelmed with thoughts about what's going to be happening over the next few months . I'd be inclined to present the info in manageable chunks .xxx

[Kate4queen]

I think you should stick to your original plan. Our BPD kids always want to control things and letting her choose or dictate which place she goes to is all part of that power game. I'd make her wait, and I wouldn't involve her in any discussions about your choices because then you're giving her power over you. I don't think she deserves to make those decisions after all she has put you and your family through, do you?

[raytamtay3]

Thanks for the replies.  No, I don't think she should be permitted to make those decisions. You are 100% right.

She is going to wait for the foster home.

[raytamtay3]

Help.  I'm in FOG and need someone to slap some sense in to me!

This past Thursday I got a call from the shelter DD is at that I needed to take her to the doctors because she was sick.  :)D was telling me and them for four days prior how sick she was and not until she was pale and feverish did they call to tell me I needed to take her to a doctor asap.

Took her to the ER and she was diagnosed with acute sinusitis and they put her on antibiotics.

She just called me saying she feels even worse, has black stuff coming out of her nose, etc.  That I NEEDED to make her another appointment.  I called our family doctor and scheduled and appointment.  Then I called the courthouse to ask for permission to take her.  They said well didn't you just take her Thursday.  I said yes, but DD is still complaining that she feels really lousy.  They said I will need to ask the judge for permission at our court hearing tomorrow.

Why do I always feel compelled to rush to DD's aid?  Why can't I tell her no, she just went and has to give it time?

She also said how everyone is ganging up on her at the shelter including staff and that she knows something bad is going to happen.  Why do I always question the what ifs instead of not believing a word she says due to past experience?

Today I am to back to being the blame for putting her back in this situation... .

[lbjnltx]

Ray,

On Sunday my d called me in the early morning saying she thinks she is catching a cold... .can I bring her some medicine.  I say sure... .I pickit up from the store and bring it by.

That afternoon I realize that my old phone has turned itself off again (it does this from time to time) and when I turned it back on there were 4 text messages and 3 missed calls and one voice mail from my d.  She had cut her finger, lost "a lot of blood", felt faint and needed me to take her to the ER.  She had called my Mom wanting to see if my Dad could take her since I would not answer my phone.  My Dad was out of town with my Mom's car and my Mom rarely drives anyway so she said she could not and he could not take her.

I called her and talked to her and said I would be over shortly to take a look at her finger, did she need antibiotic ointment?  Bandages? Did she stop the bleeding? She needed nothing and the bleeding had stopped.

Basically, when I got there she did not need stitches, she needed me to validate how frustrated she was because I did not answer the phone, she needed to be reassured that her finger was cut, it hurt, it would be ok if she kept it clean. She needed me to validate that she felt faint and that could be from the site of her own blood... .it happens to me too.

They are our children and need us as their moms to know that we are there for them... .not at their whims just at their time of need.  Being sick and away from home feels horrible for anyone, it feels extremely horrible for someone who has emotions running at warp speed and as deep as the Grand Canyon.  Be authentically concerned, reassuring, and attentive, don't be manipulated. 

lbj

[Kate4queen]

I think you are allowing her to dictate the game again. BPD's love to be in control and make us parents 'hurry up and jump' to their agenda. It's a power game. You know you're not a bad mother and you know you've given your DD every chance in the world even when everyone else around you was against it.

Ask yourself the hard questions. Do you want her to get well? Do you want her to learn self-care and responsibility? If so, why are you rushing to save her every five minutes?

[raytamtay3]

I think you are allowing her to dictate the game again. BPD's love to be in control and make us parents 'hurry up and jump' to their agenda. It's a power game. You know you're not a bad mother and you know you've given your DD every chance in the world even when everyone else around you was against it.

Ask yourself the hard questions. Do you want her to get well? Do you want her to learn self-care and responsibility? If so, why are you rushing to save her every five minutes?

This is exactly what I need to here.

[lbjnltx]

ray, if you think your d is playing a power game be careful that you are not doing the same in return.

With all the drama we deal with it is sometimes difficult to be mindful that first and foremost they are our children.  Your d is only 17, she still needs to know that her mom is there for her, that her mom cares, and that her mom loves her.

When we are in doubt as to what or how much to do it's a good idea to look at our goals.  Making decisions after running things through our goal filter can help keep us on the path that leads to our goals and not away from our goals.

I hope your d feels better soon.

lbj

[saphirewidow]

How long has she been on the antibiotics?  If the sinus infection isn't clearing up or at least feeling better within 28-48 hours then she may need to go back in.  It is really hard to know if we are being manipulated or not but I do know that no center cares about her as much as you do.  Sometimes you have to be her advocate if no one else will.  Our kids play victim and cry wolf, but sometimes they really do need help.  My son wanted to hurt himself during his last psych inpatient visit and he punch the walls really hard.  He was complaining of hand pain (well duh!) but more then normal for the circumstances and the staff was just ignoring it.  I had to push them to have it xrayed and it was broken and needed a cast.  You have to use good judgement but if you have any doubts, get her rechecked for your peace of mind and hers.  It is a small way you can let her know you've got her back even in these crudy circumstances.   

[raytamtay3]

Man oh man do I really need to brush-up on my parenting skills! I almost did it again! I almost gave in to DD's demands and put someone on her phone list who she claimed would help her get through all this (a boy) and someone for whom I told straight out he was to stay away from my DD!  :)D talks such a fricken' good game! I find myself still falling for the manipulation.  I even went so far as to say ok! Then I slept on it, told her today that I am very sorry and she has every right to be angry with me for flip flopping, but that I have to go with my initial gut of not having any of her friends on her phone list at this time.  She hung up on me.  I totally understand.  Why can't I just stick with no right off the bat? Why do I continuously give in to her demands?  I need help. Mental help.

She still makes me a nervous wreck when we discuss sensitive subjects.  It's like I am afraid of my own DD! What is up with that?  That is so pathetic to be afraid of your own 16 year old child!  It is exactly how I felt with her father. Why I stayed so long in that abusive marriage for so long.  I didn't like conflict, would shake and get anxiety and then would constantly give in just to relieve myself of that feeling!  Ugh! I hate when I do this! I feel it does even more harm to DD when I flip flop!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

There's no crime in changing your mind ray!  You did the right thing in the end and that is all that matters.  She would be upset if you said "no" right away and she is upset that you changed your mind.  Either way she is going to be upset.  Let her be.  It doesn't mean you did something wrong.

You may be suffering from rageaphobia:

The fear of being raged at

Personally I was developing a full blown anxiety disorder.  Learning the skills gave me the confidence I needed to stand through the storms of rage and come out stronger for it. 

lbj

[landslide]

I have been there, too, afraid of my own daughter.  I also have found that she reminds me of her biological father (who abused me) when she is dysregulated.  There is so much trauma that comes with BPD and the behaviors, it is a formidable challenge to stay centered and consistent.  You did the right thing in recanting, and I still there is something positive in that.  You modeled listening to your gut and making a different decision upon reflection.  You owned the fact that you were not consistent and allowed her to have her reaction.  We are dealing with more than most parents can possibly imagine.  Keep working and be gentle on yourself, too!

[raytamtay3]

I just had an interesting conversation with the supervisor at the shelter.  Apparently staff overheard my DD and her father talking yesterday and them being in cahoots trying to arrange it so that my DD's boyfriend can be added to her phone list as her uncle! I told him he does not have the authority to make those decisions and everything is to go through me and I already told her he will not be added.  Unbelievable!

I'm not going to say anything to either of them because my ex will tell DD, and then DD will really act out at the shelter. The supervisor said she is butting heads with the girls there and him as well, because he doesn't let her do what she wants, so that of course she doesn't like him.

Same sh*t, different day. 

[lbjnltx]

Man oh man ray.   

I feel for you!

[raytamtay3]

Today was the visit off site visit with dd. We planned on going to our swim club with D's who dd has been saying she wanted to span to time with. As usual I let her use my cell phone, which was mistake number 1. She did go swimming with her brother, and played baseball, which D's loved. At one point she went to smoke, and was gone for about 20 minutes. I started looking around the entire place, which iis huge because it has a lake as well as pool.  At first I thought she took off. I looked down the long road that leads into the place too see if I saw her down there and as I was, her boyfriend and his friend driving out of the club! As I was walking back in, dd comes walking up acting stupid asking where i was. I told her I knew her friends came  and east time to go. She said if I put them on her phone list she wouldn't have to sneak around. Dh said I should tell the shelter and also tell them she can't have off site visits. Thoughts?

[lbjnltx]

Did she violate the rules of the shelter by contacting the boyfriend?  If so let them know.

Whatever the shelter's consequences are for her, let them implement them.

If there are no consequences from the shelter then you will need to decide whether she has earned the privilege and trust to leave the shelter.  Does she leave the shelter with anyone else and for any other purpose other than to be with you?

lbj

[saphirewidow]

Hmmm... .I love how they turn things around on you... ."if you would let me talk I wouldn't have to sneak around."  No... .the problem was she went against your rules and decisions because she didn't want to follow them.  She betrayed your trust which means you can't trust her with the phone and she doesn't get to use it for the next visit. And I think you already have that mistrust in place because when she was out of your site you worried about the worst option. It sounds like it was scary for you wondering where she went. And then frustrating because she made some bad choices (maybe a little relieved though that she didn't take off).  I struggle with wanting to allow things like the phone or even a walk to the park because I want to please my son even when I know it isn't the best choice... .that little nagging bad feeling that says this may not work out well but hoping it will.  I say bring it up in family therapy and talk about the need for some clear behavior guidelines on the next visit whenever that may be.  Phone guidelines, line of site guidelines, whatever you need to feel comfortable and safe and let her know trust takes a long time to rebuild.  Breaking your trust has consequences because you can't trust her to not sneak and go against the rules and you are terrified for her.  This is so frustrating, but it is a learning experience for you as well.  :)on't lose hope.  I love a quote from the Bible, "love bears all things, endures all things, hopes all things."  As a parent who desperately loves your daughter, all you can do is your best but don't stop loving her or give up hope on her.  One day at a time.  

[raytamtay3]

Did she violate the rules of the shelter by contacting the boyfriend?  If so let them know.

Whatever the shelter's consequences are for her, let them implement them.

If there are no consequences from the shelter then you will need to decide whether she has earned the privilege and trust to leave the shelter.  :)oes she leave the shelter with anyone else and for any other purpose other than to be with you?

lbj

Im not sure what the consequences if/any the shelter would have, DD is court ordered there and therefore has a counselor there who oversees her case. They operate on a levels system, and DD is on tier 2. I suspect she will be brought down to tier 1. Her father and therapist are both on the off sitr visitors list at my permission. But im going to call tomorrow when her counselor is back to tell him what happened and to tell him to suspend off site visits,

She is supposed to be starting the foster program next week which allows less restrictions and some freedom. So god knows what is going to transpire.

[Bright Day Mom]

I'm sorry the off site visit went as such.  Do not blame yourself for this as you are doing all you can, a great job!

I would definitely communicate the visit with her team shelter, which is the same as I do with my d's rtc team.  They need to know how things went, both good and bad. This may postpone her next stepping stone into fostering system as she may not be ready for less restrictive and more freedoms.

Keep on keeping on! Be well.

[raytamtay3]

I'm gonna do it, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it is incredibly difficult for me turning my DD in.  :'(

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

I just spoke to the social worker at the shelter. He said dd did tell him she saw her boyfriend. He is informing the court. He said he does like the fact dd told him but that he does not trust her. I asked his opinion about suspending off site visits. He said thats my call. Im thinking of telling dd she has one more chance and if she pulls this crap agaun, i, suspending visits. Im also not bringing my cell anymore.

[raytamtay3]

Dh convinced me to call back and suspend visits. He said ive given her a thousand chances and she ended up prostituting. True

[raytamtay3]

Received word yesterday that a bed has opened up at the home.  :)D is suppose to go there tonight.  The CMO and I are to meet at the shelter and take her together.  That's if she makes it that long... .

I received a call from her social worker at the shelter who informed me they had a incident with DD yesterday.  He said DD was non-compliant all day, was very disrespectful and at one point, threw something at a staff member.  That she is also fighting the with other girls there.

He said he will be informing the court about her behavior and that she does still have a bench warrant so if the behavior continues before she is to leave, she will be sent to detention.

I'm very curious to see how long things last at the home.  I know that sounds very pessimistic, but all hope is gone.  I just don't see her turning things around for a very long time or until something major happens.

[Kwamina]

Thanks for the update raytamtay3

I understand why you might be a bit pessimistic considering everything your daughter has done. I hope she will yet surprise you and herself by turning her life around. It might not happen immediately, but I hope in time it will.

Take care

[raytamtay3]

I just received a call from DD.  She asked me to bring her cigs and her money tonight when we come pick her up and I said I do not think she is allowed to bring that stuff. She said yes she is, that she asked someone and they said she could.  I asked who and she wouldn't tell me obviously. I said once we get to the program, I will ask if she can have it. She asked me why I am being like that.  That it's her stuff and to just bring it.  I repeated myself and she would not take no for an answer as usual, so I ended the call.

The detectives finally gave back her phone and the shelter has it to give to me.  I'm sure she's gonna freak when she finds out I am not handing it to her and will be holding it until she is permitted to have it.  I think if she does well for a certain amount of time there, they do allow it.  But not in the beginning.

All I can say is THANK GOD CMO IS DRIVING US TO THE PROGRAM!

[Bright Day Mom]

CMO's are a God send!  Let the CMO be bad cop and take the pressure off of yourself. 

I hope the transfer goes well, or at least tolerable for you all.

[Yepanotherone]

Keeping everything crossed for you Ray xxx

[raytamtay3]

Things started off not so great.  She didn't understand why CMO had to drive us there.  At one point she asked CMO why she had to take us and CMO said that she didn't have to.  I chimed in because I wanted her to. DD did not like that one bit.  Oh well.  She was a buffer to a fragile situation.

We met at the main office of the program to sign papers.  :)D was very belligerent to me there and didn't want me answering any questions; she wanted to answer them.  Long story short, by the end, when we got to the parent house, she was hugging me saying she loved me.  Not before saying by how tomorrow she'll probably hate me again.  Which is par for the course as we know.  I understood that she was nervous and anxious.  Who wouldn't be?  She asked to speak with me alone before going in.  It was basically to smoke a cig, which by the way, they allow.  She has to do it outside though.  The said they understand it's an addiction, and that the only thing that ask is that she really try to quit.

It's a much more relaxed environment aside from the fact that the parent is a jahova (sp?) witness!  ! Not that there is anything wrong with that, but DD was not happy when she found that out... .which wasn't until we got to the house.  I assured her it's nothing more than a religion and what that entails.  She just doesn't want to be preached to, and they assured her that would not occur unless she wanted it to.

She will be given a flip phone.  They give it to the youth in the event they do awal that at least they can have some form of communication should something happen.  If she earns it, she will be allowed her regular phone back.

We shall see how it goes.  RTC obviously did no good, so we are going to try this route.

To be continued... .

[raytamtay3]

A co-worker asked me today what colleges DD was looking at... .Mind you, I don't talk about my personal affairs at work but to maybe two people I trust 100%. I work for a pretty big professional company with over 1,000 employees. I just got this blank stare and said none, and that she's doesn't know what she wants to do yet.  Man is it hard answering those types of questions!  And once again I feel so depressed that my DD isn't going to have those experiences.  It is so hard to radically accept that DD has so much potential that she will probably never use.  It just heartbreaking. A few months ago it was proms that sent me into an internal tizzy.  Have more prom and graduation questions to contend with soon as well.  Sigh.

On a positive note (hopefully), DS and I are picking DD up tonight to take her to dinner since we won't be seeing her this weekend as DH, DS and me are going to the shore for a couple of nights.  I will not be letting her use my phone this time!  Expect the worse hope for the best is my motto these days.