Next step...advice needed

[Gorges]

I hear you. One thing I loved about these past 5 months of being in a different country is making new friends who were much younger than me and not talking about children... .It has been freeing because I get embarrassed and never know how much people really know about my daughter because I don't know what she is putting out on the internet.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Dinner went very well I am happy to report.  Absolutely no problems whatsoever and it was a lovely visit.

As part of therapy, DD worked at a soup kitchen yesterday morning.  Something she and I have always said we wanted to do.  She enjoyed it very much and said she can now cross that off her bucket list.  I'm hoping it was a humbling experience and makes her realize how fortunate she is.

When I was dropping her off last night, she was complaining of pain in her side.  She said it was an 8 on the pain scale.  I told her to keep and eye on it and if it gets worse, to tell her house parent to take her to the ER.  She called me at 3:30 am crying in pain wanting me to pick her up and take her (50 minutes away). I calmly told her to wake her house parent and tell her she needs to go.  After some reluctance, she finally did and went.  She was diagnosed with a cyst on her ovary.  She was instructed to go to her GYN asap, and told me I would need to take her (via text).  I contacted her CM this morning and arranged to have them take her as I have taken far too much time from work in the past couple of months for things related to DD. She was not happy about this.  I validated by telling her I know how disappointed she is that I cannot take her, then explained that I just cannot do it all myself and need some help, for which they can provide.  She still isn't happy but she's gonna have to learn I cannot and will not always be around to do it all.  :)o I feel bad? Hell yeah I do.  But I have to let others step in.

[Bright Day Mom]

So glad your dinner and visit went well.

Don't feel badly you can't make every drs appt. The running is often times too much and yes, others can pitch in to help. Good job in standing your ground!

Enjoy some much deserved r & r the shore.

[raytamtay3]

Thank you.

I've been badgered all day as to why I can't take her.  Mind you I just received a call from our admin. after I sent her my vacation requests, that I have only 4 days left for the remainder of the year! Not good with court coming up and for the days DS9 will be home from school. 

She called me 5 times at work.  I had to end the last call a moment ago because she was saying how selfish I was for not changing my plans of going to the shore so that I could take her to her doctor's appointment which is now scheduled for Friday.  I know why she's doing this too.  Her doctor is in our town and close to her friends whom she's been talking to with that lovely phone the program provided her with, and was probably hoping to meet up with them.

God she makes me so fricken' anxious.

[raytamtay3]

Something is seriously wrong with me.  :)D has asked if she could go to her best friend's house overnight (the only one I like) for the 4th of July since the people she is staying with are Jehova's witnesses.  Her father doesn't want her over his house (doesn't want the responsibility) and it's my Birthday weekend and DD always manages to ruin special occasions so DH suggested not allowing her this weekend but perhaps next weekend to come home for a night.

I was actually toying with the idea of letting her go even though I know it isn't a good idea! She talks such a good talk! She always manages to pull at my heartstrings! Why do I allow this to happen? Why can't I just stick to a no and be done with it? Why do I always go back and forth.  The program said it is ultimately my call but that they usually don't think it's a good idea so early in the program.

DD was crying to me saying how her dad doesn't want her and how I don't want her, so why can't she go with a friend I trust and celebrate the 4th?

I hate this.  I really want someone to take the wheel because I just cannot parent this child the right way.  I need someone to step in and say no you can't and not allow her to manipulate the situation.  I'm telling you, if you say and heard my DD's argument, how she presents things and has good points, even YOU would have a hard time. She's THAT good.  She is so damn smart! I wish she could use it for good.

[lbjnltx]

Can you maybe see this from a bit of a different perspective ray?

Has your daughter earned the privilege of an overnight stay with this friend?  Privileges are earned through consistency in taking personal responsibility for ones' own thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and actions.  This is where progress can be measured and trust built. 

While it's ok to validate her feelings it really helps to keep the responsibility where it belongs... .with her.

lbj

[raytamtay3]

Well, when I we had a visit and I took her to our swim club a couple weeks back, she had her then boyfriend stop by the apparently say hi.  She was gone for about 20 minutes at one point and the only way I found out was because I saw him and his friend driving out of the swim club.  She claims when she told him where she was, his friend said he belonged to the swim club too and would stop by to say hi. She said they asked if she wanted to go hang out, and she said she said no.  She didn't leave the premises.

So far she has been following the rules in the program.

I don't know what to do.

[Bright Day Mom]

Ray,

My D talks a good talk too, they are soo manipulative. 

What I've learned is we can validate their feelings, but stick to your guns!

As her program has told you, they typically do not allow so early in the program. I agree with the earlier post this needs to be EARNED (over time, not 1 or 2 instances of being agreeable).  There will be a lifetime of July 4ths!

[GaGrl]

Ramtaytay, I think you need a mantra... .

"You have not yet earned my trust, and any privileges will come in future with that trust."

[Dibdob59]

I have been where you are many times Ray - my BPD also talks a good talk.

With hindsight (17 years of it) I now recognise that the whatever is the hardest thing for me to do is generally the right thing for me to do.

How sad is that - but experience has taught this to me as a truth. Doing things to make my BPD happy has rarely worked out well.

Dibdob

[raytamtay3]

How do you earn back someone's trust without given chances for them to prove themselves though?

We had a long talk yesterday and she told me that she does take responsibility for why she is in a program again.  She told me a lot about the prostitution thing.  She really opened up, which I was surprised about. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[GaGrl]

That's good that she's opening up.  However, earning trust involved demonstrating (not just saying) the right thing.  And doing it consistently over a period of time.  And doing it even when not under constant supervision.

Your DD has not been able to "do the right thing" consistently over time without supervision.  Each chance she has been given, she has taken advantage of and demonstrated that she is not to be trusted.

As she earns privileges and more freedom in the situation she now finds herself in, she'll be able to demonstrate that she is capable of handling the freedom.  That is how she earns your trust.

[raytamtay3]

I think the fear of being sent back to detention is what's keeping her from running.  The program she is in has youth that run and come back within a couple of days knowing their bed is held for three days.  But my DD knows she has a bench warrant and I truly believe that's the only reason she hasn't ran.

Her treatment team has said so far she's doing well there.  I know she can do well when she really tries.  It's when she gives up is when things fall apart.

She told me from being in a program for two years she became so self-sufficient by having to protect herself from getting jumped and realizing that she was the only one who could truly look out for herself, that when she got out, she was still in that mode.  That she did the things she did in an effort to reach her goals fast; go to driving school, get a car, get an apartment.  I told her I understand that she wants those things now, but that in real life you have to work hard for them and in a legal way.

I validated her when she mentioned how she wanted to come home and go to high school and be a normal teenager when she came out of the RTC last year, but that when she saw that she was in special ed (IEP) and had one teacher, had to have lunch in that class and was separated from everyone else, she gave up again.  I do understand that part... .But she needs to realize there was a reason why she ended up with an iep to begin with and that like everything else, she needed to prove she could be trusted to be in regular classes.  Her response was that even the kids who were exceptionally good weren't moved to regular classes.  She admitted to loving the GED program but figured she already learned what she needed to get it on her own and that coupled with her "friend" always telling her to blow off going to class to go have fun with her, deterred her because she felt like she already wasted two years of her life in programs that she wanted to live her life to the fullest.

It's just so crazy. I want so desperately to believe she can reform.

[lbjnltx]

She can reform through deep and real personal work in therapy.  Learning coping skills and development of a sense of self worth will lead her to set boundaries for herself. When you see her setting and enforcing healthy boundaries you will know she is reforming.

[raytamtay3]

We had court yesterday. She plea bargained and plead guilty to the possession charge. She has to pay $1,100 fine and fingerprinting and DNA tests. The lawyer relayed that info. to her at which point she asked him why she had to pay it and not me! He said because iim paying him. She's unbelievable. Oh and she is on probation for one year and has lost her ability to get her license for 6 months when she becomes eligible. So again, this occurred yesterday.

Today I received a call from the program CMO that DD's house parent contacted HDR to saying  :)D smelled heavily  of marijuana when walking past her to go to her group meeting as well as staff at group session saying same when she arrived... The procedure is when there is a suspicion of drug use, a room search iis conducted as well as the police being contacted. Three viles smelling heavi!y of marijuana were found in addition to a wrapper of black and milds that I know she uses to wrap blunts. Since no drugs were found, she wasnt arrested. She freaked out over the fact they searched her room without her present saying her rights were violated!  Said the viles were old to one person, and that they were there when she started the program. Mind you they were hidden in her birth control bag! Unfricken believable!

It just never ends. She just started probation!

[raytamtay3]

I just concluded reading about bad triangulation.  I definitely shift between persecutor and rescuer, with her father being in the triangle as well and shifting between the two, and now a fourth person (the woman involved in her treatment that sees DD as the victim of trafficking and the one DD now runs to when upset). 

I know I have to break this cycle and step out of the triangle and I plan to take steps to do so starting today.  My reactions and decisions are most definitely fueled by my feelings (anxiety) of not wanting to upset DD by "given in" to her demands and giving up my power in an effort to relieve myself of anxiety - which is selfish.

It's going to take a lot of work on my part to stop allowing MY emotions to add to the dysfunction. But the first step is admittance right?

Put words into actions... .

[lbjnltx]

Yes, yes, and yes ray!

Stepping to the center of the triangle where you are a centering and validating participant will help you, your daughter, and the situations.

[raytamtay3]

I have a confession to make.  Prior to this last incident, her clinician reached out to me to tell me how well DD was doing when I raised the question of whether or not to allow her to friend's house (the only one I trust) for the 4th for an overnight visit. She told me it was ultimately my decision, but how DD was participating in sessions and you could see how much she was really trying and how she's doing very well yadda, yadda. So guess what happened? I gave in and told her she could go to her friend's house for the weekend after talking with her parents!  Why can I tell my son no and stick with it without an afterthought but not DD?

Well, because of the events of yesterday, I called DD to tell her that I was going back to my initial thought of not feeling comfortable with her having an out of community visit especially after yesterdays' events.  Of course she did not take it well.  She still contends she didn't do anything and the stuff was found in her room; left my former tenants. Said she'll even prove it by taking a drug test.  That she isn't that stupid to smoke weed while on probation, yadda, yadda.  I tried to get words in to validate her feeling, but she screamed over me.  I was shaking like a leaf and stumbling over my words (therapy a must for me).  She told me that considering no matter how good she is being and still gets "sh*tted on", she's awaling.  I just received a text from her saying "have a nice life".  So God only knows what's going to happen now.

DS9 said the other day when he heard the program was taking DD to Clementon Park "why does she get to do fun things when she does bad things"? He's smarter than me at 9.

And of course, here we go again with my feeling guilty that if something does happen it's because I flip flop and make things worse.  I hate my life.  

[Bright Day Mom]

Ray,

You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. There is a process, rules and consequences... .your D needs to own it.

As parents we get worn down and do the best we can at the time. Our BPD kids can be very manipulative and it takes a lot of practice and hard work on our part to learn the best way to communicate with them. 

Life will get better, bump in the road, keep on keeping on!

[raytamtay3]

Ray,

You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. There is a process, rules and consequences... .your D needs to own it.

As parents we get worn down and do the best we can at the time. Our BPD kids can be very manipulative and it takes a lot of practice and hard work on our part to learn the best way to communicate with them. 

Life will get better, bump in the road, keep on keeping on!

Thank you. Your words do make me feel better.

It's hard when they are masters at manipulation isn't it? The intelligence it takes to come up with some of the things DD does is incredible.  She can be soo convincing and make me second guess myself.

Why can't they use that intelligence for the good?  Ugh.

Anyway, thank you again for your kind words.  Have a great Independence Day!

Tam

[Gorges]

when my daughter got in legal trouble for attacking another girl, she really smelled a lot like pot directly after that event.  Getting in legal trouble for one thing did not transfer to something else and "scare her straight" like I had hoped. It is very frustrating... .

She has been super kind, respectful and pleasant recently. She even took her father's advice and signed up for an outdoor in the mountains beginning of college trip to meet good kids before college starts. Yesterday she agreed to wake up early to look at Architectural sites with a friend of mine who is trying to promote a touring business. I found the trip very difficult, hot, stuck in traffic for a long time and the sites were not great. My daughter never complained.

It seems like you never know when and what will turn them around.  I certainly know we have rough times ahead still but I will take the good when I can.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

I just dont think there is any hope for DD. Since she dd didnt awal after everything that happened last week, her clinician said maybe it would be a good idea to allow dd an overnight. She went to her fathers house and then came to my house tonight, and then tomorrow we have our treatment plan meeting. I thought when i picked her up her eyes looked glassy. Well low and behold when she went to slee. I went through her phone and she apparently bought pot. I dont know if there is stuff out there now that makes drug test not come up hot, but shes on probation and will be deug tested.

[Lollypop]

Hi raymantay

Drugs just complicate the situations so much.

I know the anger and frustration you have.  I'm not a person who hates but I truly hate drugs.  I get that my BPDs feels that strong addictive need or smokes as a coping mechanism, it's so much a part of his life and his self identity now.  I would go so far as to say, until the last 7 months, it was his only identity.  It's not recreational use, he has no off switch.

Combined with his limited executive functioning and desire to be happy it's not going to be easy until he improves his financial management skills. I've given up on trying to get him drug free. I realise that he has to want this for himself. And some days he does want this, but he's gives in. He's had three drug free periods but when he enters back into his friendship group he returns to his old ways.

I've no answer for you. I'm very sorry that you see your daughter like this. I truly understand how it feels to watch her actions, despite her knowing there will be consequences. it's hard not to predict and foretell. It's very easy to, we know so much more than them don't we?

I could predict my son would be homeless, this was in a letter I wrote to him 7 years ago.  But we can't really predict the longer term, and our fears build so we can't think straight.  I would never have predicted that we would ever have a good relationship, that he would respond to us honestly and work towards getting financial management skills.

It's taken a long hard road to get this far.  I so wish he'd had the opportunity your daughter has but, to be completely honest, I doubt he would have behaved any differently than your daughter. Things do get better as they mature, they do learn but it takes longer than normal.

Stay strong Ray. The journey isn't always linear. One step at a time.

Take care of yourself

L

[Bright Day Mom]

Ray - Sorry to hear about this past weekend visit. Thankfully my D has never experimented w/drugs (I thank God every day), please keep in mind it isn't something she is going to be able to quit as easily as you'd like.  Like any other addiction, it is going to take time and work (on her).  It is a big step when they've been place out of home to have them overnight - how did it go?

Hope your team meeting goes well.  Have a Bright Day, you're doing great!   

[raytamtay3]

We didn't really have much of a visit as by the time I got her, it was already 9:00 pm.  We watched a movie and she feel asleep on the sofa.  We left for the TPM 10:00 am the next morning.

I knew she was high when I picked her up as her eyes were glassy.  And when she fell asleep, I went through her phone and yup, she bought pot while with her dad/friend.  And I brought it up at the meeting too... .after DD freaked out and denied denied denied until we got in the car after when she told me she was allowed to have one urine sample home up hot because she can say she smoked before being on probation... .There is no reasoning with her, I just said if I were her I would not take that chance but that she is in charge of her own destiny when it comes to that right now... .

In my opinion the program she is in gives her way too much freedom.  But what do I know honestly?  Everything I've ever tried has failed anyway.

She was allowed her regular cell phone back, gets to hang with her friends for up to 10 hours a week, can now walk around the area unsupervised, etc.  I guess their thought is if she's going to mess up, let it be on their watch now.  I guess... .I really don't understand their philosophy. Maybe they think I was too strict.  I just don't get it.  I mean I get that they are doing positive reinforcement and feel she has earned these privledges but come on! HAS SHE? Umm... .NO!

It just makes me feel like they blame me for how she was at home or something.  Like by some miracle she'll get her act together just being removed from me and giving her free reign there.  I don't like it.  But like I said, I've tried everything. Maybe it's time to step back and see how this plays out.  But she's due to be sent home in September.  Three month program.  Wippy doo.

They have no clue what they are up against... .

The only saving grace in all this is that she's on probation until she's almost 18.

[Bright Day Mom]

I'm sorry you didn't have much of a visit. Hopefully next visit will be longer and more enjoyable.

It sounds like her program is very easy going with providing lots of freedom.  As far as drug testing, it's on her; she knows she's on probation and there will be consequences outside of your / her control.

Have you spoken to CMO w/program concerns? I'm just wondering if she can start looking into alternative placement?  My D is in a 9 month program and the level of care is much higher 1:3 staff/resident ration, no free time outside unattended and a rather strict reward / level program in which they too will eventually earn a cell phone w/limited time and guidelines. They do this so yes like you said if they screw up it's on their clock and they can intervene and hopefully make the correction.

I understand your feeling of blaming yourself for an unsettled / challenging home life. I think all parents feel that way, but these mental health professionals know we are doing everything we can to provide a SAFE / LOVING home.  We all need the counseling and communication tools to move forward.

Hang in there Ray, you are def not alone!

[raytamtay3]

Have you spoken to CMO w/program concerns? I'm just wondering if she can start looking into alternative placement?  

My DD was in a locked down RTC for almost two years beginning when she was 14. It took her almost the full time for any progress to be made. Then against the advice of the professionals who suggested she go to a group home prior to coming home, I allowed her home. When she came home, things were good for the first 3 months and than got even worse which ultimately landed us where we are now.

I know most of it is manipulation, but some of it I do believe when she says how she has PTSD from being in the RTCs.  She had to fight a lot to survive there and pretty much sleep with one eye open.  The first one she was in, she was in for 6 months.  She has a physical scar from that one above her eye from a fight.  However, my DD is an alpha and when the other alphas learned that what you see is not what you get with DD (beautiful little sweet looking thing who couldn't possibly fight the huge tough chicks), than they befriend her and she ruled the place.  Her and the other youth use to run off in to the woods at that one and there was nothing the staff could do once they were off the property.  However on the property when youth acted up, which DD did frequently, they physically restrained them.  Plus they pressed charges on my DD constantly.  I took her out of that one mainly because of how she was running in to the woods with the boys and I didn't need her coming home pregnant coupled with paying out the wazzoo for lawyers and having to take off work constantly because DD broke free from restraints and was accused of assault or other really dumb reason that I can't remember now.  Although that could likely happen where she's at now... .The first place has since been shut down! Yikes.

That second one was better.  However, she had to fight to prove herself there as well and then ruled that one as well.  I did like that place mainly because of the therapist she had and how other staff really took a liking to DD and I felt she was safe being there.  She was able to work her way out of there after 9 months.

I know there are better ones out there and she wasn't in one of them, but we didn't/don't have the means to send her to any other than the ones offered through our county, which is state funded.

So I figured ok, she doesn't have to fight her way through this program and it's a home setting with the same house rules.  Let's see if this one helps.  And in addition, it at least gives us three months of some peace and gets us closer to 18 which when that happens, bye bye if she can't follow the house rules.  :)on't get me wrong, I will always worry about her and I will always try and help her through life, but I will no longer be legally liable for the bad choices and can legally have her leave.

[Turkish]

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