We are survivors. What did you survive? And how did you do it?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I survived extreme jealousy, devaluation, discards, replacing me in front of my face, regular angry outbursts. Here's how I did it (not all of it pretty on my part).

Extreme jealousy: I turned off the notifications on my phone and wouldn't talk to people in front of her. This eventually backfired because she grew very suspicious of it (and was one of the reasons she broke up with me). I maintained my relationships though, and didn't isolate myself.

Devaluation: I took in what she said of course, and it hurt. But I also thought "I can work on these things in a more supportive environment" and checked in about what she was saying about me with my therapist.

Discards: I tried to protest them, but then tried to release with grace. This is an ongoing project of course!

Replacing me (in front of me): Tried to be open to having an open relationship, but when it hurt too much, got out.

Angry outbursts: At first I would leave the situation, then as we came to trust each other more, I would go to the other room, and we would be quiet until it would blow over (that made me hopeful that we would be able to live together someday!)

Car episodes: Being stuck with her in a car-- e.g. her not getting out of the car when I went to drop her off, I went to a close by restaurant and got out of the car myself . She eventually went home. 

What did you survive? How did you do it?

[kc sunshine]

I survived extreme jealousy, devaluation, discards, replacing me in front of my face, regular angry outbursts. Here's how I did it (not all of it pretty on my part).

Extreme jealousy: I turned off the notifications on my phone and wouldn't talk to people in front of her. This eventually backfired because she grew very suspicious of it (and was one of the reasons she broke up with me). I maintained my relationships though, and didn't isolate myself.

Devaluation: I took in what she said of course, and it hurt. But I also thought "I can work on these things in a more supportive environment" and checked in about what she was saying about me with my therapist.

Discards: I tried to protest them, but then tried to release with grace. This is an ongoing project of course!

Replacing me (in front of me): Tried to be open to having an open relationship, but when it hurt too much, got out.

Angry outbursts: At first I would leave the situation, then as we came to trust each other more, I would go to the other room, and we would be quiet until it would blow over (that made me hopeful that we would be able to live together someday!)

Car episodes: Being stuck with her in a car-- e.g. her not getting out of the car when I went to drop her off, I went to a close by restaurant and got out of the car myself . She eventually went home. 

What did you survive? How did you do it?

[atomic popsicles]

I don't know that I HAVE survived yet!

Rage- about run-of-the-mill things (teenagers not listening), big things  (my ex moved in across the street with his girlfriend), every thing in between

Rudeness- I don't know what to call it. "I don't want to hear your voice" "I don't want you to touch me"

Betraying my own beliefs- I'm a teacher, but I heard constant comments about how public schools are immoral, I'm a feminist but I even made plates of food and took them to him in our room

Obsessing/Paranoia

I basically just accepted everything and tried to fix what I could. STUPID. Oh, and he started to want an open relationship. When I balked- hysterically, I might add-  it ended in SPECTACULAR fireworks the next day.

[kc sunshine]

WOW, thank your lucky stars, atomic popsicles, that you did not try an open relationship with him. For me, it took 3 weeks of an OR to make everything implode. She was in heavy idealization stage with the other person which led to a swift devaluation of me. And what's worse, her she and her other girlfriend would bond over devaluing me. Thank goodness you got out before that!

I don't know that I HAVE survived yet!

Rage- about run-of-the-mill things (teenagers not listening), big things  (my ex moved in across the street with his girlfriend), every thing in between

Rudeness- I don't know what to call it. "I don't want to hear your voice" "I don't want you to touch me"

Betraying my own beliefs- I'm a teacher, but I heard constant comments about how public schools are immoral, I'm a feminist but I even made plates of food and took them to him in our room

Obsessing/Paranoia

I basically just accepted everything and tried to fix what I could. STUPID. Oh, and he started to want an open relationship. When I balked- hysterically, I might add-  it ended in SPECTACULAR fireworks the next day.

[atomic popsicles]

I don't know about you, but for me the OR was the hardest to process. That kinda hit me at the core of not being good enough.

[vortex of confusion]

I don't know about you, but for me the OR was the hardest to process. That kinda hit me at the core of not being good enough.

What is it with the open relationships? We tried it and it failed miserably. He thought open relationship meant we went and did stuff with other people and then had to come back together and tell each other all of the sordid details. The whole feeling of not being good enough rings true for me. What did all of those other women have that I didn't? We had been married 15 years when all of that craziness started? I am the mother of his children for crying out loud. He didn't want to go out on dates with me or even have stay at home dates with me. Getting him to spend any time with me was like pulling teeth. To see him go from not wanting to spend time with me to fawning over these other ladies was so unbelievably painful. He still tries to tell me about his escapades even though I have told him repeatedly that I do not want to hear about it. I have walked away, I have flipped out, and I have tried to speak up and tell him to stop.

[gotbushels]

Extreme jealousy: I turned off the notifications on my phone and wouldn't talk to people in front of her. This eventually backfired because she grew very suspicious of it (and was one of the reasons she broke up with me). I maintained my relationships though, and didn't isolate myself.

Devaluation: I took in what she said of course, and it hurt. But I also thought "I can work on these things in a more supportive environment" and checked in about what she was saying about me with my therapist.

Extreme jealousy:

Survived

I went from not excessively jealous → questioning my own reality → excessively jealous.

How I failed

I followed her emotional reasoning and giving her large quantities of unjustified trust. Pretending to be extremely emotional over time trained me like a doggy--I became strangely "comfortable" yet it was very, very bad behaviour on my part--silly gb. Failure to resist subsequent doggy behaviour prop-ups.

How I survived

Something felt really wrong so I never stopped questioning. New limits, awareness, and conscious mindfulness. I'm proud:

• Of taking many tiny bites from varieties of Eat Me Cake--I enjoyed cheesecake flavour.



• Defence of my limits led to a huge payoff including immunity to some of her flung rubbish.

I'm mainly proud of the clarity, understanding, and freedom. I'm grateful for my relative ease sometimes yet I'm aware of the price I paid.

[kc sunshine]

This sounds great-- I especially love that you never stopped questioning things. How did you defend your limits? What were they? [/quote]
Extreme jealousy:

Survived

I went from not excessively jealous → questioning my own reality → excessively jealous.

How I failed

I followed her emotional reasoning and giving her large quantities of unjustified trust. Pretending to be extremely emotional over time trained me like a doggy--I became strangely "comfortable" yet it was very, very bad behaviour on my part--silly gb. Failure to resist subsequent doggy behaviour prop-ups.

How I survived

Something felt really wrong so I never stopped questioning. New limits, awareness, and conscious mindfulness. I'm proud:

• Of taking many tiny bites from varieties of Eat Me Cake--I enjoyed cheesecake flavour.



• Defence of my limits led to a huge payoff including immunity to some of her flung rubbish.

I'm mainly proud of the clarity, understanding, and freedom. I'm grateful for my relative ease sometimes yet I'm aware of the price I paid.[/quote]

[Larmoyant]

I survived rage, push/pull, devaluation, public humiliation, verbal and physical abuse, the loss of my job, my career, finances and the loss of my self worth.  I got to the point where I was in danger of having nowhere to live. I survived because I said ‘no more’ and walked away. I’m now living in my new place. It feels safe. I survived because I sought help from a therapist and help from people who understand. I survived because I dug deep and remembered who I was, not who he said I was.

[gotbushels]

How did you defend your limits? What were they?

Sure 

Extreme jealousy was managed with a simple infidelity limit (the actual source of my fear).

What limits?:

Limit 1. The right to live free from infidelity, from the point of exclusivity.



How to defend?:

Limit 1.

• I kept in mind the limit's severity. Severity helps figure out how to enforce and set consequences. This one is critical to me so, e.g., performance of sexual or intimate acts → instant breakup and NC.



• I made my opinions, thoughts, and beliefs around infidelity as clear and focused as possible. The makes it easier for her not to accidentally mess up (easier for her), and for her not to make silly excuses (easier for me).



• I let her know very clearly about examples of grey situations. E.g., if a man buys you a drink, you don't have to decline it, but I expect you to explicitly state that you're attached within 5 minutes. Give more scenarios or "why"s if it helps the BP understand, but be careful of excessive discussion and circularity. This also helps prevent excuses like ignorance (this is an example of the flung rubbish I mentioned earlier).

Others included: appropriate flexing of the limit, controlling her baits to break the limit and  not inappropriately validating during a limit talk.

I could include other limits to support this major limit, for example:

Limit 2. The right to have my own view, even if the other has a different view.

Limit 3. The right to troubleshoot relationship problems in a loving and diligent way. (I made this a year after the relationship--but it's applicable).

These could be very helpful in the actual management side of the limit.

Neat trick: if you focus on mindfulness then limits like 2 and 3 don't need to be remembered. So if you get mindfulness in dialogues, you can kill at least three birds with one shot. This is an example of a benefit from Eat Me Cake I mentioned earlier.

The non would consider matching the limit's importance with the appropriate energy level. Some people have successfully done limits by (1) doing a handful of conversations and (2) giving silent treatment.

I hope this adds to the discussion:)




Helpful:

• Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits



• BOUNDARIES 2: Examples of boundaries
  
  



• Excellent and concise answers thread on circular arguments that happens with limits (also has SET).



• Article from Grey Kitty's post.

[gotbushels]

Having re-read your post I realised the extreme jealousy was her problem in your case

Now I need to worry if I'm BP... .tsk? 

I guess she had the problem first, but I think I already wrote somewhere that I ended up with it because of all her naughty behaviour. I'm pretty sure I was too FOGged / exhausted to really pause and do something about it. It was much easier to just "be jealous". That was an easy way to make her go away. Yes, I was naughty too.

The limit example still stands for someone with a potentially cheating partner I think.

I'll leave the post there--I think its an accidentally felicitous example of this great passage:

To one degree or another, we all struggle with the same issues as the borderline--the threat of separation, fear of rejection, confusion about identity, feelings of emptiness and boredom. ... .

The discriminating factor, however, is that not all of us are controlled by the syndrome to the degree that it disrupts--or rules--our lives. With its extremes of emotion, thought, and behaviour, BPD represents some of the best and worst of human character ... .

Kreisman (2010 ed).

[kc sunshine]

You're right-- extreme jealousy and suspicion was her problem. I struggle with jealousy as well, but no where near to the same extent.

And ooh, it looks like "open" relationships are a common denominator of misery here! Here's how mine went down:

For a few months: my ex BPDgf would sleep with a couple when I went out of town. I could more or less handle that, thinking that was the way she soothed herself when I was away visiting my kids.

Week 1: She said she wanted to go on a date with the couple when I was in town. That was a game changer and I kind of balked-- we ended up visiting them and their extended family together which made me feel more open to her seeing them-- that she would take my feelings into account.

Oh no, I can't even write the rest-- suffice it to say that the woman of the couple's husband went out of town for a few weeks, and they moved into sort of a whirlwind romance with each other. Each week it got worse and worse, and after three short weeks, she moved from being totally into our relationship to totally into her thing with the other woman, picking fights with me (devaluation), and I told her I needed a break from it (not necessarily a break up), after which she broke up with me. Dang. The emotionally attached to her part of me thinks I could have/should have waited the thing out with the other woman until her husband came back. The "survivor" part of me thinks that it was not good to be treated that way and important to say that I needed a break from it.

[gotbushels]

You're right-- extreme jealousy and suspicion was her problem. I struggle with jealousy as well, but no where near to the same extent.

And ooh, it looks like "open" relationships are a common denominator of misery here! Here's how mine went down:

For a few months: my ex BPDgf would sleep with a couple when I went out of town. I could more or less handle that, thinking that was the way she soothed herself when I was away visiting my kids.

Week 1: She said she wanted to go on a date with the couple when I was in town. That was a game changer and I kind of balked-- we ended up visiting them and their extended family together which made me feel more open to her seeing them-- that she would take my feelings into account.

Oh no, I can't even write the rest-- suffice it to say that the woman of the couple's husband went out of town for a few weeks, and they moved into sort of a whirlwind romance with each other. Each week it got worse and worse, and after three short weeks, she moved from being totally into our relationship to totally into her thing with the other woman, picking fights with me (devaluation), and I told her I needed a break from it (not necessarily a break up), after which she broke up with me. Dang. The emotionally attached to her part of me thinks I could have/should have waited the thing out with the other woman until her husband came back. The "survivor" part of me thinks that it was not good to be treated that way and important to say that I needed a break from it.

Thanks for sharing kc. I'll share with you that my ex suggested "open" relationships as well--swinger parties included. So you can add another case to your file. Your experience shows me how it might have gone about happening.