Letting go of the good times.

[Wize]

I found this article extremely helpful in understanding why I was blocking out the bad and focusing on the good when reflecting on my r/s with pwBPD.  And why it's so very difficult to let go of that idealized version of my ex.

www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/ex-girlfriend-BPD-good-times/

[Mars22]

Very well thought-out article indeed. Describes so much of what it's truly like getting involved with a women with BPD traits.

Super helpful read - Thank you Wize

[Wize]

To follow up that article, she writes an even more powerful one.  

Here's an excerpt that really stood out for me regarding how so many of us nons fell so deeply in love with our pwBPD to the point that we thought it was true love or the "perfect love."

"A woman on the spectrum of BPD, in order to get a love interest to devote themselves entirely to her, will let down all of her walls immediately without testing the waters of trust first. She will let her love interest see her most vulnerable side right away. This is not a conscious move on her part. In her panic to have her needs taken care of, she will throw caution to the wind. In her mind a new partner will inexplicably appear to be a person who seems incapable of hurting her.

Because we are very used to seeing people’s walls or boundaries, the experience of being allowed complete access to the inner world of someone we barely know can be quite a profound experience. When we encounter someone who has no walls up, no defenses, we may feel the same way we do when we encounter a young child or a helpless baby animal. We cannot help but want to protect and nurture them.

In addition to making us want to protect and nurture them, the act of another person dropping their defenses in front of us can often give us the freedom to drop our own defenses. Sharing on this unusual level of openness with a new acquaintance, particularly when there is a romantic element involved, can release us from our inhibitions and the feeling can be exhilarating.

Often this initial experience of interacting with a woman on the spectrum of BPD can be so powerful that despite the fortress of defenses she puts up in the later phase of this relationship which can include severe levels of mistreatment or abuse, her partner may not be able to stop trying to access the vulnerable person that they imagine must be trapped inside the walls of her defenses.

The powerful combination of a person making you feel better than you ever have plus the experience of being let in past every boundary can create a feeling of love so strong that no amount of negative treatment can convince the partner to leave. It is the woman on the spectrum of BPD’s siren-like effect that can keep partners in unhealthy relationships for decades."

www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/women-spectrum-BPD-really-love/

[steelwork]

I don't see anything in that article that's specific to women on the BPD spectrum.

[Wize]

I don't see anything in that article that's specific to women on the BPD spectrum.

Um, ok.  Guess you missed this part: "BPD Push/Pull

Relationships for women with traits of BPD usually begin with an excessive longing for love and attention that drives her to find a willing romantic partner. But in order get her needs met risk-free, she will perform a few mental gymnastics. She will block out from her awareness all of the negative or potentially threatening aspects of his personality. But because she must accomplish getting her needs met very quickly before her fear catches up with her, she will take one further step to ensure that she can get as much love and as attention as she can as soon as possible.

She will now block out her own negative and potentially threatening qualities, only showing him her very best side. This move ensures that her partner will buy into the idealized dream relationship, one where neither partner could ever hurt the other one. At this point both partners are in a shared delusion of ultimate safety.

This feeling of safety allows the woman with traits of BPD to maneuver her partner into a mindset from which he is willing to give her the excessive amounts of love and attention she needs. And for a while this method of imagining her love interest to be a human being without flaws who could never hurt her works to ward off her fear of negative judgment.

But her suspicious nature eventually catches up with her. When her fear kicks in, two things will happen. Her image of him as a flawless individual will evaporate. She will realize he is capable of hurting her. The second thing that will happen is she will also drop the illusion of herself as his perfect woman. She will be aware of not only his potentially threatening faults but of her own flaws which now leave her wide open to scrutiny and negative judgment.

To protect herself from the negative judgment she will then deploy a second coping strategy. In order to move him away as quickly as she drew him in, she will block out all of his good qualities in the same way she previously blocked out his bad qualities."

[steelwork]

I don't see anything in that article that's specific to women on the BPD spectrum.

Um, ok.  Guess you missed this part: "BPD Push/Pull

Relationships for women with traits of BPD usually begin with an excessive longing for love and attention that drives her to find a willing romantic partner. But in order get her needs met risk-free, she will perform a few mental gymnastics. She will block out from her awareness all of the negative or potentially threatening aspects of his personality. But because she must accomplish getting her needs met very quickly before her fear catches up with her, she will take one further step to ensure that she can get as much love and as attention as she can as soon as possible.

She will now block out her own negative and potentially threatening qualities, only showing him her very best side. This move ensures that her partner will buy into the idealized dream relationship, one where neither partner could ever hurt the other one. At this point both partners are in a shared delusion of ultimate safety.

This feeling of safety allows the woman with traits of BPD to maneuver her partner into a mindset from which he is willing to give her the excessive amounts of love and attention she needs. And for a while this method of imagining her love interest to be a human being without flaws who could never hurt her works to ward off her fear of negative judgment.

But her suspicious nature eventually catches up with her. When her fear kicks in, two things will happen. Her image of him as a flawless individual will evaporate. She will realize he is capable of hurting her. The second thing that will happen is she will also drop the illusion of herself as his perfect woman. She will be aware of not only his potentially threatening faults but of her own flaws which now leave her wide open to scrutiny and negative judgment.

To protect herself from the negative judgment she will then deploy a second coping strategy. In order to move him away as quickly as she drew him in, she will block out all of his good qualities in the same way she previously blocked out his bad qualities."

What in that quote do you think is unique to women? That was my point.

[jhkbuzz]

To follow up that article, she writes an even more powerful one.  

Here's an excerpt that really stood out for me regarding how so many of us nons fell so deeply in love with our pwBPD to the point that we thought it was true love or the "perfect love."

"A woman on the spectrum of BPD, in order to get a love interest to devote themselves entirely to her, will let down all of her walls immediately without testing the waters of trust first. She will let her love interest see her most vulnerable side right away. This is not a conscious move on her part. In her panic to have her needs taken care of, she will throw caution to the wind. In her mind a new partner will inexplicably appear to be a person who seems incapable of hurting her.

Because we are very used to seeing people’s walls or boundaries, the experience of being allowed complete access to the inner world of someone we barely know can be quite a profound experience. When we encounter someone who has no walls up, no defenses, we may feel the same way we do when we encounter a young child or a helpless baby animal. We cannot help but want to protect and nurture them.

In addition to making us want to protect and nurture them, the act of another person dropping their defenses in front of us can often give us the freedom to drop our own defenses. Sharing on this unusual level of openness with a new acquaintance, particularly when there is a romantic element involved, can release us from our inhibitions and the feeling can be exhilarating.

Often this initial experience of interacting with a woman on the spectrum of BPD can be so powerful that despite the fortress of defenses she puts up in the later phase of this relationship which can include severe levels of mistreatment or abuse, her partner may not be able to stop trying to access the vulnerable person that they imagine must be trapped inside the walls of her defenses.

The powerful combination of a person making you feel better than you ever have plus the experience of being let in past every boundary can create a feeling of love so strong that no amount of negative treatment can convince the partner to leave. It is the woman on the spectrum of BPD’s siren-like effect that can keep partners in unhealthy relationships for decades."

www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/women-spectrum-BPD-really-love/

Holy $@*&, I had actually forgotten that this ^ is EXACTLY how my r/s started. Just... .wow.

[Wize]

What in that quote do you think is unique to women?

My experience with BPD extends only to my exwife who has BPD.  So I can't say what is and isn't gender specific with regards to BPD as I've only seen it displayed in a female.  The article strongly resonates with me as it describes and clarifies so much of what I went through.  

[steelwork]

What in that quote do you think is unique to women?

My experience with BPD extends only to my exwife who has BPD.  So I can't say what is and isn't gender specific with regards to BPD as I've only seen it displayed in a female.  The article strongly resonates with me as it describes and clarifies so much of what I went through.  

I understand. And I was pointing out that there's nothing in there that's unique to women.

[C.Stein]

My experience with BPD extends only to my exwife who has BPD.  So I can't say what is and isn't gender specific with regards to BPD as I've only seen it displayed in a female.

The DSM Diagnostic Criteria is not gender specific. 

The article strongly resonates with me as it describes and clarifies so much of what I went through.

I only read the first part you posted but it was a relatively accurate description of what happen in my relationship as well.

[Wize]

I understand. And I was pointing out that there's nothing in there that's unique to women.

Like I said, I haven't had any experiences(that I know of) with male pwBPD.  So I have no way of confirming whether or not pwBPD express some of their traits according to their specific gender. I do know that several experts in the area of BPD believe that the disorder is expressed differently in males and females. I tend to believe these experts as BPD is an emotions-based disorder and, scientifically speaking, men and women process emotions differently. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

[HurtinNW]

This describes very much what I experienced with my ex, too, and he is male. At first I thought I connected with this incredibly tender, vulnerable little boy inside of him. In fact, I know I did, and I likewise dropped my defenses. It was a mutual connection that felt very intense and real. And for me, at least, it was real.

Then when the push-pull started, the devaluation, I did everything I could to get that tender connection back. I felt the FOG—the fear. obligation and guilt, to protect him and take care of him. I put up with horrible mistreatment and abuse because I wanted that sense of connection once more.

I disagree with the sexist slant that a woman with BPD traits is using a "siren call" to seduce men. It feels dismissive that this is a mental illness, not some sort of evil plan. People with BPD often are operating with ingrained mechanisms and traits they are unable to reflect on, or choose not to. It doesn't mean they aren't causing immense damage. It means they are ill. The same is true with men who have traits. As abusive as my ex was, I don't think he woke up one day and planned to be evil. Hurting people hurt others.

I also think we should take caution is using generalizations about gender. We are all on this board because we are all healing and detaching from relationships that broke our hearts... .all of us, men and women. We're all struggling to make sense of what happened, to grow and learn from it. Artificial divisions based on whether we have boy or girl parts doesn't help us on this hard journey! It's a shame that article wasn't more gender neutral. Thanks for sharing it, Wize!  

[rfriesen]

Rings absolutely true to my relationship with my ex, too. Three months out now, with limited contact since then, and still she's on my mind pretty much constantly each day. The thoughts are considerably less painful and invasive than three months ago, but still ... .

I'm not sure whether articles like this make me feel better or worse. A little of both, I guess. It's reassuring to know there's something "normal" about what I'm feeling. It's also a little humbling to realise my inner emotional rollercoaster and this painful longing were entirely predictable.

[Wize]

Rings absolutely true to my relationship with my ex, too. Three months out now, with limited contact since then, and still she's on my mind pretty much constantly each day. The thoughts are considerably less painful and invasive than three months ago, but still ... .

I'm not sure whether articles like this make me feel better or worse. A little of both, I guess. It's reassuring to know there's something "normal" about what I'm feeling. It's also a little humbling to realise my inner emotional rollercoaster and this painful longing were entirely predictable.

Yeah.  I'm a super analytical person.  I have a need to get to the very core of things to better understand and deal with them.  Nicola's articles are very insightful and more importantly, specific.  She really is able to pinpoint the source of certain feelings and behaviors and turn a confusing, irrational experience into something I can grasp cognitively. 

[steelwork]

For what it's worth, this is all quite familiar to me as well--especially that vulnerability and being told and shown that  he felt I was uniquely capable of understanding him. Quote:"I have never felt so viscerally understood." Which, since I believed it, made it seem worth the risk and pain to try repairing things after he turned on me. I think all this follows from the oft-mentioned lonely child/abandoned child dynamic so many of us experienced. Pretty much as soon as I started thinking of our r/s as something other than a tragic love story for the ages, I began seeing that I can't have been all that special or irreplaceable, which is of course pretty hard to swallow, but then reality often is.

[Wize]

Pretty much as soon as I started thinking of our r/s as something other than a tragic love story for the ages, I began seeing that I can't have been all that special or irreplaceable, which is of course pretty hard to swallow, but then reality often is.

But given the extreme idealization that takes place during the initial phase of a new romantic relationship, you likely were that special and irreplaceable to your xwBPD. However, once that childlike, fantasy love wore off, the mature, lasting love required to make a relationship work never kicked in.

So here's you(and me) left wondering why the love stopped.  Well, it stopped not because we're not loveable and special and irreplaceable, but because our partners w/BPD had nothing more to give.  My exwife literally didn't know how to love me in any other way than to idolize and seduce.  That's all she had.  And that's why there is a long list of trainwrecks following in her wake. 

[rfriesen]

Yeah.  I'm a super analytical person.  I have a need to get to the very core of things to better understand and deal with them.  Nicola's articles are very insightful and more importantly, specific.  She really is able to pinpoint the source of certain feelings and behaviors and turn a confusing, irrational experience into something I can grasp cognitively.  

Same here. In fact, that's one of the things that my ex would turn against me. She would always tell me, "use your heart, not your head. If it feels so good, why do you have to think so much?" This, of course, was in response to all my attempts to talk through our problems and to explain to her why I couldn't move in with her, and why our relationship was too chaotic for me. I was very analytical and tried hard to get her to see what I felt was wrong in a calm, open tone. Never got through to her, and she did eventually have me thinking maybe my over-analytical mind was the problem. In the end, though, it was neither heart nor head that I needed to listen to - it was gut.

[rfriesen]

But given the extreme idealization that takes place during the initial phase of a new romantic relationship, you likely were that special and irreplaceable to your xwBPD. However, once that childlike, fantasy love wore off, the mature, lasting love required to make a relationship work never kicked in.

So here's you(and me) left wondering why the love stopped.  Well, it stopped not because we're not loveable and special and irreplaceable, but because our partners w/BPD had nothing more to give.  My exwife literally didn't know how to love me in any other way than to idolize and seduce.  That's all she had.  And that's why there is a long list of trainwrecks following in her wake. 

Again, I couldn't agree more. With my ex, there seemed no way to build a bridge from the initial idealisation phase to something more stable and lasting. It just all turned chaotic. And she was basically aware of this -- she told me several times, "This always happens - a guy is my whole world and then he's gone. It's just never hurt before because I was always checked out by then. I thought you would be the one who lasted."

She claimed no one had ever broken up with her before. Who knows whether that's true? Even if it is, that small badge of honour isn't much comfort now as I can barely get her out of my head for a minute, and still wake up in the night thinking of her, wake up in the morning thinking of her ... .it's truly demented! I never would have imagined myself in such a state. And she's back on track, leaving more trainwrecks in her wake (at least one so far that I know of) ... .

[steelwork]

Pretty much as soon as I started thinking of our r/s as something other than a tragic love story for the ages, I began seeing that I can't have been all that special or irreplaceable, which is of course pretty hard to swallow, but then reality often is.

But given the extreme idealization that takes place during the initial phase of a new romantic relationship, you likely were that special and irreplaceable to your xwBPD. However, once that childlike, fantasy love wore off, the mature, lasting love required to make a relationship work never kicked in.

So here's you(and me) left wondering why the love stopped.  Well, it stopped not because we're not loveable and special and irreplaceable, but because our partners w/BPD had nothing more to give.  My exwife literally didn't know how to love me in any other way than to idolize and seduce.  That's all she had.  And that's why there is a long list of trainwrecks following in her wake. 

Wize, have you checked out the lonely/abandoned stuff?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=293011.0

Another way of thinking of the pulling-away is that it follows from "reality-testing." The idealization, which is a common phase in relationships, was more intense for a reason. The pwBPD was seeking to complete an identity for him/herself with the assistance of that ideal other. Or something like that.

[Wize]

Even if it is, that small badge of honour isn't much comfort now as I can barely get her out of my head for a minute, and still wake up in the night thinking of her, wake up in the morning thinking of her ... .it's truly demented! I never would have imagined myself in such a state. And she's back on track, leaving more trainwrecks in her wake (at least one so far that I know of) ... .

Yep.  I feel ya.  My entire relationship with my BPDx was a whirlwind.  Fast and furious.  Deep, intense connection.  It felt unreal, it felt like a dream.  In many ways it was a dream because it was based on characters that weren't real.  The person I thought my ex was, was nothing but a facade.  But the facade was all I cared about because it felt so good. 

And now that's it's over, it's doesn't feel like it's really over.  It feels like I'm still half asleep and dreaming and the other half is awake trying to find some solid footing in the real world.  My BPD x pulling me into her dream fantasy world of amazing highs and painful lows, and now I'm just trying to extract my heart and mind from her world. I've never felt anything like this before and I'm 43 years old and been through several long term relationships.  Still trying to figure out what happened.

[rfriesen]

Yep.  I feel ya.  My entire relationship with my BPDx was a whirlwind.  Fast and furious.  Deep, intense connection.  It felt unreal, it felt like a dream.  In many ways it was a dream because it was based on characters that weren't real.  The person I thought my ex was, was nothing but a facade.  But the facade was all I cared about because it felt so good. 

And now that's it's over, it's doesn't feel like it's really over.  It feels like I'm still half asleep and dreaming and the other half is awake trying to find some solid footing in the real world.  My BPD x pulling me into her dream fantasy world of amazing highs and painful lows, and now I'm just trying to extract my heart and mind from her world. I've never felt anything like this before and I'm 43 years old and been through several long term relationships.  Still trying to figure out what happened.

Man, do I ever know what you mean. And when the facade first cracked for me, it was unlike anything I'd ever experienced. All the anxiety and frustration and confusion that had built up in me for months and months just poured out. I could hardly eat, hardly sleep for weeks. I was in a different city from my ex by then, thank god. But I did see her a couple more time after and we sort of semi-recycled for the few days I was in town. But everything was different. We were keeping the facade together to rekindle old times, but just barely. Cracks all over the place. And then she started pulling me back in and the longing and anxiety were it triggered were off the charts. Again, thank god I had to go back to my new city after a few days. What a mess. It's exactly as you describe - half dream world, half awake. And I'm clawing and grasping my way back to the real world an inch at a time, is what it feels like.

I'm 37 years old and thought I was LONG gone from the kind of longing and anxious intensity of those first high school relationships ... .wow, then this relationship took me to a whole new level of it. Like you, I'm still trying to piece together what happened.

[FallBack!Monster]

Yep.  I feel ya.  My entire relationship with my BPDx was a whirlwind.  Fast and furious.  Deep, intense connection.  It felt unreal, it felt like a dream.  In many ways it was a dream because it was based on characters that weren't real.  The person I thought my ex was, was nothing but a facade.  But the facade was all I cared about because it felt so good. 

And now that's it's over, it's doesn't feel like it's really over.  It feels like I'm still half asleep and dreaming and the other half is awake trying to find some solid footing in the real world.  My BPD x pulling me into her dream fantasy world of amazing highs and painful lows, and now I'm just trying to extract my heart and mind from her world. I've never felt anything like this before and I'm 43 years old and been through several long term relationships.  Still trying to figure out what happened.

Man, do I ever know what you mean. And when the facade first cracked for me, it was unlike anything I'd ever experienced. All the anxiety and frustration and confusion that had built up in me for months and months just poured out. I could hardly eat, hardly sleep for weeks. I was in a different city from my ex by then, thank god. But I did see her a couple more time after and we sort of semi-recycled for the few days I was in town. But everything was different. We were keeping the facade together to rekindle old times, but just barely. Cracks all over the place. And then she started pulling me back in and the longing and anxiety were it triggered were off the charts. Again, thank god I had to go back to my new city after a few days. What a mess. It's exactly as you describe - half dream world, half awake. And I'm clawing and grasping my way back to the real world an inch at a time, is what it feels like.

I'm 37 years old and thought I was LONG gone from the kind of longing and anxious intensity of those first high school relationships ... .wow, then this relationship took me to a whole new level of it. Like you, I'm still trying to piece together what happened.

I thought I might have wrote these words. But then I notice how well written it was and that's when I could tell it wasn't me.  Just someone out there with my exact thoughts.  Only thing is, I know for sure that I will never be able to put piece together.  I know I just have to deal with the fact that good times or not, for my ex, it was all just a joke on me.   

[Reforming]

To follow up that article, she writes an even more powerful one.  

Here's an excerpt that really stood out for me regarding how so many of us nons fell so deeply in love with our pwBPD to the point that we thought it was true love or the "perfect love."

"A woman on the spectrum of BPD, in order to get a love interest to devote themselves entirely to her, will let down all of her walls immediately without testing the waters of trust first. She will let her love interest see her most vulnerable side right away. This is not a conscious move on her part. In her panic to have her needs taken care of, she will throw caution to the wind. In her mind a new partner will inexplicably appear to be a person who seems incapable of hurting her.

Because we are very used to seeing people’s walls or boundaries, the experience of being allowed complete access to the inner world of someone we barely know can be quite a profound experience. When we encounter someone who has no walls up, no defenses, we may feel the same way we do when we encounter a young child or a helpless baby animal. We cannot help but want to protect and nurture them.

In addition to making us want to protect and nurture them, the act of another person dropping their defenses in front of us can often give us the freedom to drop our own defenses. Sharing on this unusual level of openness with a new acquaintance, particularly when there is a romantic element involved, can release us from our inhibitions and the feeling can be exhilarating.

Often this initial experience of interacting with a woman on the spectrum of BPD can be so powerful that despite the fortress of defenses she puts up in the later phase of this relationship which can include severe levels of mistreatment or abuse, her partner may not be able to stop trying to access the vulnerable person that they imagine must be trapped inside the walls of her defenses.

The powerful combination of a person making you feel better than you ever have plus the experience of being let in past every boundary can create a feeling of love so strong that no amount of negative treatment can convince the partner to leave. It is the woman on the spectrum of BPD’s siren-like effect that can keep partners in unhealthy relationships for decades."

www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/women-spectrum-BPD-really-love/

Thanks for sharing this Wize. I think author's observations are astute, well written and totally true to my experience with my ex.

This sentence really resonates with me. "Often this initial experience of interacting with a woman on the spectrum of BPD can be so powerful that despite the fortress of defenses she puts up in the later phase of this relationship which can include severe levels of mistreatment or abuse, her partner may not be able to stop trying to access the vulnerable person that they imagine must be trapped inside the walls of her defences."

Though she uses a siren reference and focuses on female borderlines I think the she is pretty non judgemental and objective about the disorder. She also consistently points out that there is a spectrum of BPD behaviour . Well worth reading

Reforming

[Sadly]

Hi all, for me too it was exactly the same, except for she read he. It's a pity there isn't another word that could be utilised. We both felt that we had found our perfect person, this much I know was true for him too at that time. When the devaluing hit for the first time my shock was immense. I knew nothing about BPD then. This is going to sound weird but Sometimes I look at my exe's head when he is watching tv or reading and my heart breaks. I want to reach into his head and sooth away the immense dark loneliness and confusion that is in there and let him feel normal love. I don't even get angry anymore when he turns on me, just desperately sad for him. I can't help him, he won't admit there is anything wrong. I am glad I have come through to whatever stage I am at now in this awful journey. I am still standing, the body blows are healing, I will get well again and he won't. I pray all here will feel compassion for those with this terrible isolating illness. Xx

[rfriesen]

I pray all here will feel compassion for those with this terrible isolating illness. Xx

Well said. My heart aches like I've never known before when I think of the pain my ex sometimes experiences and when I think of all the heartbreak she's likely to go through in the future too. I pray she finds the strength to confront it all someday. Sure, I also get angry and have hostile thoughts towards her times. After all, I absorbed so much hostility from her without ever releasing it on her. But I know those moods always pass, and I'm left wishing her happiness. Not the manic wild happiness she chases now, which is always followed by a crash. But I would love to see her at peace.