A barage of emails "I'm bored"

[Cipher13]

I'm sure many other have been in this situation as well so for that reason I am seeking some advise. I get frequent emails from  W during the work day. She also has a full time job but for the most part she has very little to keep her busy most days. So instead of her having an ability to find something to keep her occupied she emails me. At fist I thought this would be a fluke temporary thing so I would reply back when ever I could. As it happens it far too frequent. While I can respond to most I don't think I should be. If I were my supervisor I wouldn't think this was a good use of my time. I have tried to explain this but she just blows it off. Are there other things I could be saying and doing to help convince her this is not a good thing?

I have tried to say I have a meeting from time to time or have to be away for this or that. But I am at my desk a lot. I nearly get ill when I see the first email of the morning... ."I'm bored." I will get these several times a day... .even in texts. 

I have not set boundaries where I should have and trying to apply one this late in the game is going to be next to impossible. Like other areas I have failed to apply boundaries that protect me and keep me somewhat more sane.

[FallBack!Monster]

I'm sure many other have been in this situation as well so for that reason I am seeking some advise. I get frequent emails from  W during the work day. She also has a full time job but for the most part she has very little to keep her busy most days. So instead of her having an ability to find something to keep her occupied she emails me. At fist I thought this would be a fluke temporary thing so I would reply back when ever I could. As it happens it far too frequent. While I can respond to most I don't think I should be. If I were my supervisor I wouldn't think this was a good use of my time. I have tried to explain this but she just blows it off. Are there other things I could be saying and doing to help convince her this is not a good thing?

I have tried to say I have a meeting from time to time or have to be away for this or that. But I am at my desk a lot. I nearly get ill when I see the first email of the morning... ."I'm bored." I will get these several times a day... .even in texts. 

I have not set boundaries where I should have and trying to apply one this late in the game is going to be next to impossible. Like other areas I have failed to apply boundaries that protect me and keep me somewhat more sane.

If you're no longer in a relationship, block her from everything and don't read it.  If you still are, then you have to talk and tell her what you fee.  If she doesn't listen then, you have a decision to make.  Maybe she's messaging you during her breaks?  If you're not interested in whatever she has to say, be brave and tell her.  Its obvious it is eating you up inside.

Who knows, maybe she will stop all together and your life start being the way you want it.  Lets just hope the last time she message you was the last time... .I wish you the best of luck.

[Mutt]

I suggest putting the boundary on yourself and prevent yourself from responding at work. Don't JADE ( Justify, Attack, Defend, Explain ) why you're can't replay while you're at work. You've already explained it to her and maybe tell her again but you know what she'll cross that boundary, defend your boundary by not responding while you're working. There's likely going to be backlash at the onset of the new boundary but it'll get better. If she sends an email and you don't reply to that email during workhours eventually she'll stop sending emails because she knows that she's not going to get a reply.

[Grey Kitty]

You don't convince her that it is a bad idea to email you at work. (Probably not possible)

You convince her that when she emails you "I'm bored... ." stuff at work, you aren't going to reply.

You also don't convince her that you are "right" to do this.

All you convince her is that you aren't going to reply at work.

Start by convincing yourself

[uniquename]

This resonates with me. I'm getting emails too and not ready to deal with them. He accuses me of not caring or not being there for him by not responding right away. To me, I've set a boundary that I need time to respond properly when I feel ready. Is that too open ended to explain to him? I also have been stressing we need a third party to talk about serious issues like living arrangements and financials of a long term separation. I'm holding fast on that but maybe I need to just say no discussions of emotions outside of therapy for now. Thanks for letting me potentially hijack. Hope this helps you too.

[formflier]

 

Nope... .not to open ended.  There is some trial and error as you figure out how much to "explain". 

Remember, in the context of an accusation, it's probably best to not explain at all.

What works for me is:

"You don't care about me because you ignore my emails... ."

my response

"Are interested in knowing about my feelings for you?"   I would use this if the above was said in a fairly calm way.  Sometimes that will redirect things.  If your SO is really hyped up when they say that, probably best to just defer the conversation until cooler heads are available.

"Mindreading" is a big, negative part of my r/s, so I've taken a fairly hard line against it.


Explaining is often done best when a situation has cooled:  "Hey, you are important to me, your emails are important to me, I need time to properly think things through and provide the complete response that you deserve."   Then talk about something else.



Another train of thought on this: 

As you gain skill and understand validation better, sometimes that can help sooth a situation.  There are times when my wife "just wants to be heard".  If it is dysfunctional thought, make sure you don't agree or validate the invalid.  Hopefully you can learn how to reflect back what they say, without agreeing. 

FF

[Cipher13]

I could go maybe 30 minute to an hour after an email from her then I will notice 1 of 2 types of additional emails. #1 is the less hostile "Where did you go?" With this one I know she is not irate yet. #2 is F-ing answer my email I know you are there ignoring me. You know the agreement."   

The agreement is I will respond when I can. But that means in less than 1 hour's time. Being micromanaged like that causes me to feel resentful. I have tried to explain this in the nicest and most non confrontational way I could have thought of. I might as well have called her names and said "Hey I can do what I want and you can just like it." Would have had the same reaction with less effort to and foresight on my end.

[formflier]

OK... I'm thinking that you only answer towards end of day.

Or, not at all if she "f-bombs" you.

Probably best to answer consistently towards end of day and ignore all nasty stuff.  Only respond to decent content.

Be consistent for a few weeks.  See how it goes.

Don't let other people run your schedule.  Period.  Don't explain it.

her "you obviously don't care about me since you are ignoring me by not answering... "

you ":)o I have it right that you feel that my work is causing me to ignore you?" or some other reflective statement

her... ."blah blah blah BPD nonsense"

you... ."I would appreciate it if you could trust that while I'm at work I need to focus on other things, but I really do miss you... "

End it...

So... .you are asking for trust (speaks to relationship) and you are bringing up the idea that you really do miss her.

Stop debate at that point.

"you must email me in 5 minutes... "

you  "that just doesn't work for me right now... ."   walk away.

FF

[uniquename]

Explaining is often done best when a situation has cooled:  "Hey, you are important to me, your emails are important to me, I need time to properly think things through and provide the complete response that you deserve."   Then talk about something else.

Another train of thought on this: 

As you gain skill and understand validation better, sometimes that can help sooth a situation.  There are times when my wife "just wants to be heard".  If it is dysfunctional thought, make sure you don't agree or validate the invalid.  Hopefully you can learn how to reflect back what they say, without agreeing. 

Thanks. Gonna save this in case it comes up again. I'm already finding validating/mirroring/reflecting is fairly easy over text/email and really helps to keep pain level lower. Good stuff.

[formflier]

Via email is good... .

"Help me understand what you were trying to communicate... "  Stay away from the word "why".  In person and in email.  For people that are already sensitive, it can be triggering, sorta sounds like a courtroom, vice someone that is concerned and in an intimate r/s.

Also, "It would me a lot to me if... ." is a easy way to indicate to someone that you value the r/s and are making a request, but not a demand.

"That just doesn't work for me right now... ." is sort of an easy way to say no... .but have it be smooth.  Make sure and don't explain why... .say it/write it and then talk about something else.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

The agreement is I will respond when I can. But that means in less than 1 hour's time. Being micromanaged like that causes me to feel resentful. I have tried to explain this in the nicest and most non confrontational way I could have thought of.

You are having trouble enforcing boundaries. Here's what I'd do in your shoes, though.

1. Tell her "The agreement about contacting me at work isn't working for me. I'm changing it."

Only contact me at work in an emergency. I've got an obligation to be actually working, instead of taking care of you. If it is an emergency, call or text. If it isn't an emergency, email is great, but I won't be checking my personal email at work. Do not use my work email address. [Note: I'd suggest you block/filter/trash all her emails to your work address automatically at this point so you don't even see them!]

I have tried to explain this in the nicest and most non confrontational way I could have thought of. I might as well have called her names and said "Hey I can do what I want and you can just like it."

Don't confuse validating (and being kind) with enforcing boundaries. You cannot do both at once. It is NOT possible.

Enforcing boundaries is not kind, and isn't appreciated or taken well. Ever. You don't have to call her names or be outright mean or rude, but you are very clearly taking an action to prevent her from accomplishing what she wants. (At a time when what she wants is to hurt or control you!) Don't expect her to like it.

You can be kind and validating, and I hope you do, but save that for another time. Being kind and validating will not stop her from attacking, harming, controlling, undermining, etc., etc., etc. Don't expect it to. You need to enforce boundaries to do that.

Reclaiming your work day from her is a job for boundary enforcement.

[Cipher13]

Reclaiming your work day from her is a job for boundary enforcement.

This is very true since work is the closest thing I have to personal time. Having it constantly interrupted more and more makes me feel like she is moving in to that space to take it over as well.

Of all the posts and topics I have put up I am really only seeking ways to communicate to her for own well being. If that makes any sense. Over time I have avoided conflicts but they are required in a way to even have a chance at making a change. I see that. Maybe what it is most I fear is not making my point or feeling towards her or her actions clear or honest enough. I don't want to come across as being mean or manipulative or cruel. All the things she claims I am when I have tried to enforce a boundary or stand up for myself. For example last night I made and prepared dinner. I asked her if she would wash the dishes. She said no but I will watch you. At that point I wanted to flip out. I held it together and said ok fine. I could have yelled and try to make my point.  I didn't want to be that person that would say I made the meal at least you could do is wash the dang dishes. I lack the confidence to work that argument in a more loving and honest way. Still even if I knew how I would have expected a negative response I suppose. 

[Grey Kitty]

I don't want to come across as being mean or manipulative or cruel. All the things she claims I am when I have tried to enforce a boundary or stand up for myself.

When you enforce a boundary, you may or may not come across as mean, manipulative, or cruel.

You WILL be accused of being mean, manipulative, or cruel by her when you attempt to enforce a boundary.

And why not? Every time she does that, you cave. It works for her. She'll keep doing it. She's getting what she wants out of you.

Your solution is standing up to her because you know you are right even if she accuses you like that.

I lack the confidence to work that argument in a more loving and honest way.

That isn't the problem.

You can enforce a boundary. Or you can be kind/loving/generous.

NOBODY can do both at the same time. By its very nature, enforcing a boundary is thwarting what she is trying to do.

You can avoid being mean or cruel when you do it, but you cannot be nice/kind. This is like parenting... .sometimes being a parent involves not giving your child what they want, what they are throwing a tantrum for. It is the right thing to do sometimes. You don't have to beat the child, but you don't give in either.

[Cipher13]

I have really been focusing on myself and what it is that I am feeling and in need of, separate from my wife. Answer: an identity. I am not a person. I am not really me. I am and extension of her insecurities and neediness. As much as I have tried and instinctively want to help her I can not. I will never make it better. I have suggested some help for her to go and see a professional for her depression. Mainly after one long email rant.

Her:I don't want to be here I want to go home.  I don't like this job this place this anything... . 

Me:I completely understand your frustration with this. I wish  could provide more help or better words of encouragement. 

Her: That is not very helpful.  I am so discouraged... .

My reply: To be honest there isn’t much more I can think of to help you with this. I am very sorry that it has turned out this way.

Then here it comes from her: I am just so unhappy with this life.  We are nothing.

We have been in a slump for an extremely long time.  Like it is crap.  We don't like anything because we suck.  I mean even the sound of hearing a fricken kid makes me mad.  Even if they aren't screaming.  I hate them.  I hate the people behind us and the lack of parenting from every stupid a** "parents" that I see.  They blow a**. 

I hate sitting here all day doing nothing and accomplishing the same.  I hate going home and having the same emptiness.  The only thing I find happiness in are my dogd... .and I don't get to see them much.  I hate getting up at fricken 5am to exercise.  I hate our meals.  I hate feeling fat when I am working my a** off.   I hate everything.    

I suggested that maybe it is time to bring these concerns up to a professional to get a handle on them before they get much worse.  She said not thanks because she won't go see the same person we had before and that there isn't anyone else around that can help.  I know I can't force her nor will I but when she refuses what is left for me to do? Nothing? or to leave?

[byfaith]

Hi Cipher,

Just curious, what is it that keeps you there? What keeps you from just leaving?

You: I am very sorry that it has turned out this way 

why should you say you are sorry? maybe say something like "it must be horrible to feel that way"

It is taking me a while but I learning more and more not to own my wife's feelings and feel responsible for them

We have to start small and work our way up

best regards,

BF

[Cipher13]

why should you say you are sorry? maybe say something like "it must be horrible to feel that way"

The short answer here is that I was responding use those kinds of suggestions but I really got tired of her responses to "it must be horrible to feel that way". She would say "No s*t you think. That was a jerk comment to say." Or some other nasty reply.

Just curious, what is it that keeps you there? What keeps you from just leaving?

Oh boy the question. I really don't think I know. I want nothing more than to find this out. I'm sure I know way deep down what prevents me form leaving. I think it is related to FOG. For so many years I have been told her I want this relationship and to "fix" it. I know can only expect to change myself and have tried. I have friends (she doesn't know I have them... .that's sad in itself) and they have all said I have given more to this relationship than they ever would have or any person should have. I know they are right. All I think about in my head is what would it be like to be single again. What would I be doing right now if I were on my own. None of what I come up with scares me to stay. On the contrary it makes me want to leave even more. For example, I could see family I have not seen in years. I can visit friends anytime. I can relax and not have to actually do anything instead of everything. And most of all the best thing I can think of is that I can have "self" time and not have to worry how it is affecting her feelings that I am taking time to do what I want personally.

[formflier]

When you get nasty replies like that.

Ask how you could use your words differently to support her better.

Do NOT offer actions. 

Perhaps she would rather you say that you love her and just perhaps a hug. 

You could also say  "Wow!... .You must be (fill in emotion)"  The Wow should have some concern in it... .like you are saying "omigosh I can't believe this happened to you"... .but keep it into a "wow"

The goal is to identify their emotion... .let them know that you are there with them.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

why should you say you are sorry? maybe say something like "it must be horrible to feel that way"

The short answer here is that I was responding use those kinds of suggestions but I really got tired of her responses to "it must be horrible to feel that way". She would say "No s*t you think. That was a jerk comment to say." Or some other nasty reply.

I'm going to recommend that you give up on that kind of validation. It isn't working. In order for it to work, you need to be in a better stronger place, less afraid, and she probably needs to be less pissy/disregulated.

Start with two things before you work on this anymore:

1. Boundaries to protect yourself, your time, your friends, your family, etc. See your comment below. Take the time to fix that for yourself.

I have really been focusing on myself and what it is that I am feeling and in need of, separate from my wife. Answer: an identity. I am not a person. I am not really me. I am and extension of her insecurities and neediness.

2. Stop unneeded/unaware/etc. invalidation. (You may have already done this) You may not be able to really connect on your attempts to validate, but you can at least make sure you don't say specifically invalidating things that didn't need to be said.

Once you've found a bit more of yourself, you will find the strength and resolve to do some validation for her.

Yes, when you assert your boundaries and take time for yourself, she *will* blow up at you. Expect it, and stay strong.

This is your only way out with a chance of the marriage (and you) surviving!)

[Cat Familiar]

The short answer here is that I was responding use those kinds of suggestions but I really got tired of her responses to "it must be horrible to feel that way". She would say "No s*t you think. That was a jerk comment to say." Or some other nasty reply.



I've gotten exactly the same type of response. Using SET apparently just doesn't work with my husband, or perhaps I'm doing it in too rote a manner. Validation is not my strong suit and I'm more of a thinker than a feeler, so trying to identify his feelings is a challenge, especially when all he will admit to is feeling "bad."


What would I be doing right now if I were on my own. None of what I come up with scares me to stay. On the contrary it makes me want to leave even more. For example, I could see family I have not seen in years. I can visit friends anytime. I can relax and not have to actually do anything instead of everything. And most of all the best thing I can think of is that I can have "self" time and not have to worry how it is affecting her feelings that I am taking time to do what I want personally.

I've been doing what I want for a while and though I get accused of being "selfish" on occasion, the world hasn't ended. I'll agree, "yep I'm selfish" and there's nothing else he can really say. He does what he wants without asking my permission. Sometimes he'll ask and I'm fine with him doing whatever he likes, especially if it give me time alone. 

[ICantFixHer]

Dear Cipher13,

You wonder what it would be like to leave your relationship. Let me tell you how I feel about my experience.

A year ago my ex pwBPD girlfriend sneered at me in a drunken rage: "I'm more of a man than you'll ever be and you need to admit it!"

That statement was a gift my ex gave me, the keys to freedom. That was my last straw, and a month later I was living in a cabin in the mountains 80 miles away.

Over the past year we have stayed in contact and hung out a few times; she'd promised to get help "for real" this time so while I was living a peaceful life in the pines, she was supposedly getting therapy.

Three weeks ago I talked to her seriously about me coming back and she went thru the same cycle as always -- you know the drill.

I cut her off -- no contact -- and now I am done. There is no "we" anymore.

It feels wonderful. I can do whatever the heck I want, when I want to. There is no zombie skunk in the room with me, zoning out with that look on her face I'd come to detest, the look that said "I'm going to F you up later, you watch."

I am looking to buy a house now. I am in therapy to understand my inability to enforce boundaries earlier in a relationship. I am sleeping better, my digestion is better, I am drinking less. I feel better, my shoulders aren't so scrunched-up and tight anymore. I can laugh at my own little foibles instead of worrying the skunk is going to make a snide and devastating comment about my huge shortcomings and failures as a man.

I am not walking on eggshells anymore, I am making quiche. I am no longer living with blinders on. I can predict skunk's behavior to the minute. I have become an expert in all of this madness, and I chose to walk away. I deserve better. I feel better. I own this. I take responsibility and it feels good. You will, too!

I realize not everyone can just up and move away, I am lucky to work from home so I could go anywhere, really. When I started working from home about 3 years ago I realized I no longer had to be trapped in the skunk's stinky den, I could move to a smaller town and live a more affordable lifestyle than the big city.

So that's what I did. The past year has been one long painful extraction -- like removing a skunk's rotted tooth -- but I am on the other side.

Space is what you need. I hope you get it. All the best.

[Cipher13]

Powell
I am glad that you are doing well. That is truly an awesome thing. You are my hero. Very inspiring words. If I can get over the idiotic fear of not wanting to rock the boat and know that if I want things to change its is going to be rough going. I just know the hell it will be based on the few times I've tried. Since I didn't stick to it and reverted back to my "I'll do what every you want"  sort of ways to keep the peace I am back being the rug on the floor instead of the captain at the helm.

[Cat Familiar]

If I can get over the idiotic fear of not wanting to rock the boat and know that if I want things to change its is going to be rough going. I just know the hell it will be based on the few times I've tried.

As someone who has left a physically and mentally abusive BPD marriage, I need to point out that, yes, it is rough going to leave, but what you're dealing with on a day-to-day basis is also hell.

It's like the proverbial frog who doesn't jump out of the boiling water. As the temperature rises, you get used to the incremental changes until you don't even notice the pot is boiling.

[Grey Kitty]

Did you ever read the lesson about intermittent reinforcement and extinction bursts?

You are (in effect) teaching her that all she has to do to get what she wants is crank the bad behavior aimed at you high enough and you will eventually capitulate.

If I can get over the idiotic fear of not wanting to rock the boat and know that if I want things to change its is going to be rough going. I just know the hell it will be based on the few times I've tried. Since I didn't stick to it and reverted back to my "I'll do what every you want"  sort of ways to keep the peace I am back being the rug on the floor instead of the captain at the helm.

You've been around a while... .and you know you have failed before. You've got a few choices:

1. Stay, and enforce boundaries to protect yourself.
2. Stay and be a doormat
3. Leave

Maybe there are more, but I'm not sure what they are besides bouncing back and forth between some of them.

The choice is yours. How long do you want to stay as you are? She isn't going to get you out of where you are stuck; that is up to you if you want something different.