Painting Black as a coping mechanism for detachment

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I am not sure how to articulate it exactly. The closest thing that I could come up with to describe it is to say that I have been painting ex black as a coping mechanism to help me detach.

I know that I have vented rather heavily here and to people in real life. I know that I have a difficult time being around him without noticing every little thing that he did/does wrong. One of my friends pick on me about "What did he do today besides breathing?"

Intellectually, I know there are a lot of positive things about him. The kids like to remember how daddy was when they were little. He used to be pretty cool and pretty fun albeit annoying.

I am afraid that if I allow myself to think about the positives for too long, I will be tempted to get suckered back into his delusion that we are one big happy family as long as he gets to do what he wants and I continue to care for everyone.

I am not sure what I am asking. I think this post stems from me trying to move along in the detachment process. Ultimately, I want to reach a point where I can acknowledge the good and the bad in the relationship and just be done. Right now, I feel like I am coming out of a period where I spent a lot of time venting about him and not even being able to be in the same room with him without wanting to explode at him. Being that negative is very uncomfortable for me. I am more apt to spin things in a positive direction. Finding the middle ground has been a long process for me.

Painting him black at this moment is helping me to resist the temptation of letting him weasel his way back in. It is a protective measure because I realize that being in a relationship with him is NOT healthy for ME. I do not have the strength or the patience to be in a relationship with him. I don't like who I am while in a relationship with him. I don't like the extremes that I feel and I don't like that I feel like I have abandoned a lot of things that were once really important to me.

This hit me the other day when I was talking to somebody that is a mutual friend of mine and ex's. I was sharing something positive about ex and he kind of chuckled and said, "It is good to see that you have finally gotten to a point where you can say something nice about him." This friend has been through a divorce and knows that this is part of the process.

My concern is that I don't want to get stuck here. I want to acknowledge the pain and hurt that I feel as a result of the things that happened in the relationship so that I can let it go and move on.

Does anybody have any thoughts or input?

[vortex of confusion]

I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I am not sure how to articulate it exactly. The closest thing that I could come up with to describe it is to say that I have been painting ex black as a coping mechanism to help me detach.

I know that I have vented rather heavily here and to people in real life. I know that I have a difficult time being around him without noticing every little thing that he did/does wrong. One of my friends pick on me about "What did he do today besides breathing?"

Intellectually, I know there are a lot of positive things about him. The kids like to remember how daddy was when they were little. He used to be pretty cool and pretty fun albeit annoying.

I am afraid that if I allow myself to think about the positives for too long, I will be tempted to get suckered back into his delusion that we are one big happy family as long as he gets to do what he wants and I continue to care for everyone.

I am not sure what I am asking. I think this post stems from me trying to move along in the detachment process. Ultimately, I want to reach a point where I can acknowledge the good and the bad in the relationship and just be done. Right now, I feel like I am coming out of a period where I spent a lot of time venting about him and not even being able to be in the same room with him without wanting to explode at him. Being that negative is very uncomfortable for me. I am more apt to spin things in a positive direction. Finding the middle ground has been a long process for me.

Painting him black at this moment is helping me to resist the temptation of letting him weasel his way back in. It is a protective measure because I realize that being in a relationship with him is NOT healthy for ME. I do not have the strength or the patience to be in a relationship with him. I don't like who I am while in a relationship with him. I don't like the extremes that I feel and I don't like that I feel like I have abandoned a lot of things that were once really important to me.

This hit me the other day when I was talking to somebody that is a mutual friend of mine and ex's. I was sharing something positive about ex and he kind of chuckled and said, "It is good to see that you have finally gotten to a point where you can say something nice about him." This friend has been through a divorce and knows that this is part of the process.

My concern is that I don't want to get stuck here. I want to acknowledge the pain and hurt that I feel as a result of the things that happened in the relationship so that I can let it go and move on.

Does anybody have any thoughts or input?

[steelwork]

Hi VOC,

I see this as part of the "anger" stage. I hear you saying you don't want to get stuck there. There's an aphorism I heard recently about holding onto anger: it's like taking poison and expecting the other person to die.

The question is how to move past this stage. Does this from the LESSONS help?

"SELF-AWARE: Has the anger gone too far?"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

I suppose the anger and painting black will subside when you don't need them anymore--when you have more confidence that you won't return to the longing without them. What will that take? I don't know. More time? More understanding of the hopelessness of trying to be with him?

Myself, I return again and again to the 10 false beliefs:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

[once removed]

hi voc  

i can relate, and i think there is some value to your approach. shifting the focus from "the good" to "the bad" can be useful for detaching or self protection. once i was dumped it seemed like i was totally out of touch with "the bad", and the very real negative feelings i felt toward her for the duration of the relationship. that wasnt balance, and of course neither was focusing solely on the bad, but for me, it was an exercise in getting there. saying, for example "i am tempted to return to the relationship, but hes abusive" of course minimizes the good.

you sound pretty self aware about your process and the mechanism youre using, and youre open to the feedback you received from your friend; you are reality testing.  be easy on yourself, these are exhausting relationships.

having said all that... .

I realize that being in a relationship with him is NOT healthy for ME. I do not have the strength or the patience to be in a relationship with him. I don't like who I am while in a relationship with him. I don't like the extremes that I feel and I don't like that I feel like I have abandoned a lot of things that were once really important to me.

i think thats every bit as worthwhile to focus on  

[vortex of confusion]

I see this as part of the "anger" stage. I hear you saying you don't want to get stuck there. There's an aphorism I heard recently about holding onto anger: it's like taking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Hmmm. . .It could be part of the anger stage. It feels like so much more than just anger. It is a ball of emotions that includes a deep sadness. It includes frustration. It includes making sense of conflicting values.

Also, I am feeling very raw. So many of the things that ex said or did was like peeling scabs off of old wounds. Some of them were old wounds that go back to the beginning of our marriage and some of them are old wounds that go back to childhood.

"SELF-AWARE: Has the anger gone too far?"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

I know that I allowed my anger to go too far when I flipped my lid on him a couple of weeks ago. It scared me because that is NOT who I am and that is NOT who I want to be. I was in a bit of a spiral. A very good friend said some things to me and my initial reaction was to get hopping mad. After thinking about it, I pulled my head out of my butt and am trying to sort this out.

I suppose the anger and painting black will subside when you don't need them anymore--when you have more confidence that you won't return to the longing without them. What will that take? I don't know. More time? More understanding of the hopelessness of trying to be with him?

I don't have any longing for him. I have a longing for an in tact family. I have a longing to have my family together. I have a longing for my kids to have a dad that is a regular part of their lives. I have zero longing for him and the romantic aspects of our relationship. I made it almost 18 years before deciding that I simply could not do it any more.

He is the father of our children. I will have to deal with him in some form or fashion for the rest of my life. My kids will have special days in their lives where they want mom and dad there together. Even now, they still want to do things as a family. I try to accommodate them whenever possible. I don't think the kids should suffer because I am unable to be in a relationship with their dad.

Myself, I return again and again to the 10 false beliefs:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

Thanks! I haven't read them in a while. I used to read those all the time as a reminder to keep me on track.

[vortex of confusion]

i can relate, and i think there is some value to your approach. shifting the focus from "the good" to "the bad" can be useful for detaching or self protection. once i was dumped it seemed like i was totally out of touch with "the bad", and the very real negative feelings i felt toward her for the duration of the relationship. that wasnt balance, and of course neither was focusing solely on the bad, but for me, it was an exercise in getting there.

I was the one that asked him to leave. I know that he would be back here in a heart beat if I gave him the go ahead. He is reluctant to get his stuff out of here. He has no place to take it as he is living in the spare bedroom of a friend of his. I sometimes feel like I was wrong to tell him to leave. I think painting him black helps me to justify my decision to tell him to leave. That was so unbelievably painful for me to do and I still feel guilty about it at times. I feel like I need to remind myself of why I can't be in a relationship with him and why I asked him to leave. Painting him black and focusing on his negative traits helps me to remember why I can't be in a relationship with him.

saying, for example "i am tempted to return to the relationship, but hes abusive" of course minimizes the good.

Thank you for this! I know that he has been abusive in his actions. I have had a lot of internal struggle with the issue of abuse. I have called him an abusive a--hole in conversations before. I can say it yet I find myself getting defensive when other people say it. I think the example you provide above captures the essence of why I am uncomfortable with focusing too much on the abusive aspects of it.

I know that the kids and I have discussed how confusing it is that he seems to have changed so much over the years. The girls and I have reminisced about some of the fun stuff that we used to do together.

The other day, one of the kids said, "You guys are cute together when you can get along." In order to get along with him, I have to compartmentalize and play mental mind games with myself because some of the stuff that has transpired between has been so painful. One of the kids also asked me the other day, "Why can't you and dad fix things?" I told her that I didn't have the words to explain it to her. I love and care for her dad yet I cannot live with him.

I realize that being in a relationship with him is NOT healthy for ME. I do not have the strength or the patience to be in a relationship with him. I don't like who I am while in a relationship with him. I don't like the extremes that I feel and I don't like that I feel like I have abandoned a lot of things that were once really important to me.

i think thats every bit as worthwhile to focus on  

I am trying to focus on this a bit more. I am also trying to figure out how to deal with the pain and hurt without making it all about him. I know he didn't intend to hurt me or cause me pain so focusing on it with regards to him is pointless. It is my pain and my hurt and I need to figure out how to cope with it without making it all about him.

There are times when I feel like I am being ridiculous because I do have so much pain and hurt about the stuff that has gone on. It feels like I have stored up a lot of it. Painting him black is also a rather convenient way to justify my pain and hurt. When I share parts of my story with people, the reaction isn't to dismiss me. The reaction is shock and amazement that I am still plugging along. Even if he was the nicest guy in the world, it is perfectly okay for me to be completely and utterly hurt and angry over what he did.

[steelwork]

I don't have any longing for him. I have a longing for an in tact family. I have a longing to have my family together. I have a longing for my kids to have a dad that is a regular part of their lives.

Legit longings!

I wonder if this is the family-scale version of:

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"

My sister went through a pretty rough divorce about 10 years ago. She had a really hard time pulling herself out of the depression she was in. It took several years. What I heard from her was never a longing for her ex -- it was always longing for an intact family. I connect the acuteness of those longings to our family circumstance. She was 11 when my parents separated and took it much harder than the rest of us (younger) kids. (She was always trying to play mother to us. We resisted it pretty staunchly.)

She seems well over the divorce now, but I feel like she had to accept that he's kind of impossible as a co-parent, and that she has to pull most of the load. I think she realized it was easier to parent without his help than to try to get him involved. I have huge respect for her--and anyone in her situation.

[DazedD40]

That ball of of emotions you mentioned, that's me right there. So many different emotions twisting me up as I try to let go and detach.

I can't help but paint her black as I come to terms of what really went on during the 4 years with her. It all makes sense now. Every little thing that was said, what happened, all those red flags. She's s£&t all over any happy memories I have of her. I'm left sitting here slotting the jigsaw together in a state of disbelief, sadness, anger, resentment and so much more.

I want to run away from the memories of her.

[vortex of confusion]

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"

My sister went through a pretty rough divorce about 10 years ago. She had a really hard time pulling herself out of the depression she was in. It took several years. What I heard from her was never a longing for her ex -- it was always longing for an intact family. I connect the acuteness of those longings to our family circumstance. She was 11 when my parents separated and took it much harder than the rest of us (younger) kids. (She was always trying to play mother to us. We resisted it pretty staunchly.)

I think this is definitely at play. My oldest daughter has spoken at length about how she wishes things could go back to the way they used to be. She is very sad that her youngest two sisters will never have the opportunity to know the good dad that she had when she was younger. The youngest kid has only known ex in his "bad" phase. She hasn't really seen the good parts of him. As a result, she pushes him away every chance she gets. I know that my oldest tries to mother her little sisters too much and tries to pick up the slack and take dad's place. It is painful to continually remind her to knock it off. I am the parent, not her. She needs to step back and be a kid. I got this.

She seems well over the divorce now, but I feel like she had to accept that he's kind of impossible as a co-parent with and she has to pull most of the load. I think she realized it was easier to parent without his help than to try to get him involved. I have huge respect for her--and anyone in her situation.

  This made me laugh as I know this pain and frustration. Ex is definitely impossible to coparent with. Things are so much more peaceful and easy without him living in the house. The girls and I do really well when it is just us. When he gets involved, things get a bit wonky. The kids and I wanted to go see Finding Dory. The kids invited him without asking me first. I wasn't going to uninvite him for a variety of reasons. He went with us and things went peaceful and were relatively fine. At one point, when he was gone to get popcorn, one of the kids leaned over and started commenting about how incompetent he is. I felt horrible hearing her say that about her dad. It is true. The biggest challenge is to keep from saying or doing anything to alienate the kids from dad. He does enough of that on his own.

[vortex of confusion]

I can't help but paint her black as I come to terms of what really went on during the 4 years with her. It all makes sense now. Every little thing that was said, what happened, all those red flags. She's s£&t all over any happy memories I have of her. I'm left sitting here slotting the jigsaw together in a state of disbelief, sadness, anger, resentment and so much more.

I am trying to put all of the pieces together myself. One of the complicating factors for me is that towards the end of the relationship, I would try to find happy things to talk about with him. You know, try to remember and recapture the good times to see if we could find some way to rebuild things. Heck, we had 17/18 years together, 4 kids, a house, and really a pretty decent life. I would try to reminisce and he wouldn't remember. The other day, the kids had been looking at some old family photos on the computer and were taking a walk down memory lane. They were asking me if I remembered this or that. I did. Sometimes it took them giving me a few details or a context. With him, he would tell them, "I don't remember. I blocked that out."

Before I ended things, I did everything I could to try to recapture the good times. He didn't seem to remember the good or bad. It was like a lot of our relationship didn't even exist. Somewhere along the way, I started noticing that he rarely told stories about us. Most of his stories were of things that he did before we met. Or, they are stories of things that he has done or stories about people that he knows. It is like our years together don't even exist for him.

[DazedD40]

Isn't that compartmentalising at play?

I've not read up on that so much as of yet but looking back I can see when it was obvious that's what she was doing. There were times id see her jump if I brought up a previous red flag from the past. It was like she panicked as I caught her off guard as one of her filing cabinets flung open. She's say to me, oh I've forgotten about that and deny all knowledge of it taking place and then turn it around on me blaming my insecurities.

It's so hard to bend your head around. 

[Lilyroze]

I can't help but paint her black as I come to terms of what really went on during the 4 years with her. It all makes sense now. Every little thing that was said, what happened, all those red flags. She's s£&t all over any happy memories I have of her. I'm left sitting here slotting the jigsaw together in a state of disbelief, sadness, anger, resentment and so much more.

I am trying to put all of the pieces together myself. One of the complicating factors for me is that towards the end of the relationship, I would try to find happy things to talk about with him. You know, try to remember and recapture the good times to see if we could find some way to rebuild things. Heck, we had 17/18 years together, 4 kids, a house, and really a pretty decent life. I would try to reminisce and he wouldn't remember. The other day, the kids had been looking at some old family photos on the computer and were taking a walk down memory lane. They were asking me if I remembered this or that. I did. Sometimes it took them giving me a few details or a context. With him, he would tell them, "I don't remember. I blocked that out."

Before I ended things, I did everything I could to try to recapture the good times. He didn't seem to remember the good or bad. It was like a lot of our relationship didn't even exist. Somewhere along the way, I started noticing that he rarely told stories about us. Most of his stories were of things that

he did before we met. Or, they are stories of things that he has done or stories about people that he knows. It is like our years together don't even exist for him.

Wow Vortex, that must be hard for you and the kids. How does that make you feel in the context of your and the kids future?

I am sorry you went and are going through that. May you find the peace and healing you need now to make your new journey shine.

I am grateful for your post though this is not about me or my situation. I feel compelled to tell you it helped me a lot. My ex to be was ill for awhile and I thought that is why he block out so many memories of the good or what our life was like. The fun times. Believe me there was so many signs I should have seen, ignored and made excuses for. But still I also tried to have the house peaceful and full of adventure. He is ignoring , blocking out and a whole different person. Very strange. Now that I see yours and so many stories like it I realize it was not the meds or illness it was more then likely the BPD.

Good luck to you and the kids. Glad you can see and sort this all out for your well being.

[Meili]

I like what Skip said here about painting a pwBPD black.

[vortex of confusion]

Isn't that compartmentalising at play?

I am not sure what the technical term for it is. It could be splitting. All I know is that I felt horrible when I would try to find ways to reach out to him and connect with him only to get, "I don't remember."

I've not read up on that so much as of yet but looking back I can see when it was obvious that's what she was doing. There were times id see her jump if I brought up a previous red flag from the past. It was like she panicked as I caught her off guard as one of her filing cabinets flung open. She's say to me, oh I've forgotten about that and deny all knowledge of it taking place and then turn it around on me blaming my insecurities.

He used to outright deny stuff. One day, he called me a b***h. I was like, "Excuse me? You just called me a b----?" He has called me that on several occasions and has tried to deny it. One time, he told me, "I didn't think I actually said it. I just thought it. I didn't realize that I said it out loud." 

In recent years, his response has become, "I don't remember that. If you say it, then it must be true." It takes dismissiveness to a whole new level in my mind. I didn't want to be right. I wanted to have a friggin' discussion about the crap between us so it could be put behind us. His mode of operation is to put stuff behind him without discussion and without any kind of acknowledgement. He has said and done some stuff that I found very hurtful.

Even now, he doesn't live here yet comes over and acts like nothing has transpired between us at all. I have a boyfriend. He continues to chase anybody that will give him the time of day. One day he tried some stuff and I said something about it and his response was, "We are still technically married. You are still my wife."   

He will ask for hugs and seem perplexed when I don't engage him in conversation. When he comes over, I go hide in my room so he can hang out with the kids. Instead of hanging out with the kids, he will come find me and sit at the foot of the bed and talk to me like the kids do.

It is taking a lot of emotional energy to protect myself from him. He has only been out of the house since March so I am just now really starting to dig into the serious parts of healing. Quite a few people told me that I wouldn't really be able to address some of this stuff or even feel it until I didn't have to live with him every day. Boy were they right. Since he has been out of the house, all sorts of stuff is coming up for me.

[vortex of confusion]

Wow Vortex, that must be hard for you and the kids. How does that make you feel in the context of your and the kids future?

That is an interesting question. I am not sure that I understand it fully. I don't feel like whether or not he remembers stuff is that relevant to the future for me and the kids. I feel like the kids and I have a pretty bright future once we can get accustomed to all of the changes. I can already see a lot of positive things happening that I could not seem to get a grip on while he was here. When he was here, I felt like I was fighting an uphill battle. I have a good relationship with the kids. They know me pretty well yet he would tell them things that they knew were complete crap. The example that comes to mind most readily is how I used to try to get a few minutes to nap. I would tell them that I was going to take a nap. They would get rowdy and/or want/need something. Instead of helping them or encouraging them to leave me alone for positive reasons, he would tell them, "Leave your mom alone or she is going to get mad." He would threaten the kids with "Mom is going to get mad all the time." The funny thing is that the kids know that is complete hogwash. That seemed to make the kids want to test the reality of his statements so they would come get me and bug me and I wouldn't get any rest. I might grumble. I rarely got mad and acted the way he said I would. The kids stopped listening to him completely. Without him here, I get a lot more rest because the kids are doing more for themselves and are being a lot more considerate of me. When he was here, they would mimic his lack of consideration for me. And, the kids wouldn't do much for themselves because when they would try, he would either take over and do it for them OR would nitpick them such that they had no desire to even try.

I am grateful for your post though this is not about me or my situation. I feel compelled to tell you it helped me a lot. My ex to be was ill for awhile and I thought that is why he block out so many memories of the good or what our life was like. The fun times. Believe me there was so many signs I should have seen, ignored and made excuses for. But still I also tried to have the house peaceful and full of adventure. He is ignoring , blocking out and a whole different person. Very strange. Now that I see yours and so many stories like it I realize it was not the meds or illness it was more then likely the BPD.

Oh man, I can't tell you the number of excuses that I have made for him over the years. Like you, I tried to keep things peaceful and full of adventure. I managed pretty well for a really long time. I feel like I woke up one day completely exhausted and just couldn't do it any more. I tried to hang on. I tried to force myself to be okay with things. I tried so hard to fix myself and meet him where he was. Yes, I have issues. I am not completely broken. It is okay for me to want to be in a reciprocal relationship. It is okay for me to NOT want to carry most of the responsibilities and then be shamed or feel guilty for wanting a break.

I tried to go out for one mom's night out and he made such a fuss about it that I didn't do it again. He couldn't hang out with the kids so I could get rest yet he could go so far as to take the day off of work so I could go see another man. The caveat is that I had to tell him all about it after I got home. I put a stop to that crap. I try not to focus on that stuff because I am the one that did it. I can put it all off on him. At the same time, it hurts that his solution to everything was, "Let's see other people." It still hurts that I did the things that I did. It still hurts that he acts like nothing happened. 

[vortex of confusion]

I like what Skip said here about painting a pwBPD black.

Thanks for the link! That is some good stuff. I realize that this is a coping mechanism to help me get to a point where I am strong enough and confident enough to move beyond all of this.

I really like this quote from that thread:

I might suggest that painting any group of people black as a process for getting over our own pain, is a "healing" built on very shaky foundation.  Creating false and extreme images of another person to heal is not much more constructive than using drugs or alcohol.  But some will use drugs and alcohol, or sex, or rebounding, or... .life is not tidy.

Ironically, "painting black"  is the very dysfunction many of us (as a community) complain about in people with BPD - we question why they do it - why they don't take responsibility - why do they deal on such a low emotional level?

I recognize my doing this as a coping mechanism. It is purely a self protective measure. I know it isn't going to be constructive in the long run. He and I will be coparenting together, which is why I posted about it. I do feel a sense of urgency to move beyond the desire to paint him black. I have 18 years worth of stuff to sort out. I have been just surviving and taking things one day at a time for quite a while and my emotional reserves are pretty low when dealing with him.

He has only been out of the house since March. At first, I was stunned and numb that I finally did it. Then, I was relieved and it felt so good not to have to see him or talk to him as he was out of state for the first couple of weeks. Before he left, there was no healing going on. Before he left, I was treading water and doing it poorly. Every day felt like a struggle before he left. He would sit around playing his games like there was nothing at all wrong in the world. He didn't have a job and wasn't really doing anything to help with the kids or the house. I was sleeping on the couch or the floor because I couldn't/wouldn't share a bed with him.

The irony is that ex still hasn't painted me black. I feel like he still has me very much idealized and on a pedestal. If I could just get over myself and all of this pain, he could come home and we could be one big happy family again. (I am saying that in a very tongue in cheek manner.) There is no way that I can get past some of the stuff that has happened. I can process it and I can move on from it. I cannot and will not be in a romantic relationship with somebody that has done the things that ex has done.

[Meili]

I can see a lot of frustration in your posts, so I'm wondering if you've actually painted him black? Is it that, or are you just looking at the bad things that have happened to bring you to this place?

[vortex of confusion]

I can see a lot of frustration in your posts, so I'm wondering if you've actually painted him black?

Sigh. . .yes, there is a lot of frustration. I think you are right. I haven't really painted him black by the definition that is usually associated with painting a person black. To me, it feels like bringing up all of the stuff that he has done wrong in the relationship IS painting him black. I feel that way because I haven't really been looking at what I did wrong in the relationship. I really do want to blame him for everything at this point in time. The stuff that transpired was NOT normal ups and downs of a relationship. Nothing about it was normal or okay and he doesn't seem to see why it wasn't okay. His perception is so very skewed.

If I had truly painted him black, I wouldn't be trying to give him opportunities to see the kids. I wouldn't be trying so hard to do the right thing for all parties involved. I think my frustration stems from really wanting to pain him black yet knowing that it would not be right and it certainly wouldn't be beneficial to the kids or even myself.

I have friends that get frustrated with me for still being so nice to him.

Is it that, or are you just looking at the bad things that have happened to bring you to this place?

That is a good question. I am finally at a place where I can safely do a post mortem on the relationship and see all of the times that he did things that were hurtful. There were so many times that I didn't react to things when I should have. There were so many times that I kept my mouth shut and shouldn't have. Our relationship was very damaging to me.

I have a post bookmarked. It is a letter that I wrote to Mr. Vortex and posted. It is dated October 24, 2014. It wasn't until March of this year that I finally worked up the courage and gumption to ask him to leave. Every time I read it, I feel so sick at my stomach and shaky. Here is the link: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=235692.0;all

There is a part of me that really does want to hate him and paint him black and cut him out of my life forever. 

[Meili]

I can certainly see why you are so "frustrated" by all of this. I'm angry for you!

I have a great deal of respect for you though. It must have been extremely difficult for you to share all of that. The fact that you survived it all and were able to share it shows what a great deal of strength you have.

[vortex of confusion]

I can certainly see why you are so "frustrated" by all of this. I'm angry for you!

I have a great deal of respect for you though. It must have been extremely difficult for you to share all of that. The fact that you survived it all and were able to share it shows what a great deal of strength you have.

Thank you for this!

I am making progress. It is is soo very slow and so very painful at times. I want to be free of him and I want to be done with this. I know me and I know my tendency to be nice. I feel like I need to hold on to every single shred of everything that was wrong with the relationship so that I don't allow myself to be recycled or sucked back into his fantasy world.

[HurtinNW]

I am trying to put all of the pieces together myself. One of the complicating factors for me is that towards the end of the relationship, I would try to find happy things to talk about with him. You know, try to remember and recapture the good times to see if we could find some way to rebuild things. Heck, we had 17/18 years together, 4 kids, a house, and really a pretty decent life. I would try to reminisce and he wouldn't remember. The other day, the kids had been looking at some old family photos on the computer and were taking a walk down memory lane. They were asking me if I remembered this or that. I did. Sometimes it took them giving me a few details or a context. With him, he would tell them, "I don't remember. I blocked that out."

Before I ended things, I did everything I could to try to recapture the good times. He didn't seem to remember the good or bad. It was like a lot of our relationship didn't even exist. Somewhere along the way, I started noticing that he rarely told stories about us. Most of his stories were of things that he did before we met. Or, they are stories of things that he has done or stories about people that he knows. It is like our years together don't even exist for him.

That's so heartbreaking. Similar with my ex: he genuinely doesn't remember the good times especially. I would bring them up and he would be startled and say he had forgotten it or didn't remember. He even forgot he had proposed to me.

I have a thought: I wonder if focusing on the bad is your way to validate your own reality given he has completely erased it. His erasing of a life together is immensely invalidating, it's like saying you never existed. By painting him black and focusing on the details and specific memories of his behavior, you are reclaiming your reality.

At least I suspect that is part of what I am doing, too. I ruminate over memories, almost as if to declare "you won't remember I will, you can't take my reality from me anymore."

You are entitled to remember what you want out of the relationship, to validate your own memories.

[vortex of confusion]

That's so heartbreaking. Similar with my ex: he genuinely doesn't remember the good times especially. I would bring them up and he would be startled and say he had forgotten it or didn't remember. He even forgot he had proposed to me.

The most confusing part is that he could remember weird stuff like what I wore on our first date. I don't know if he genuinely doesn't remember the good times or doesn't talk about them. Most of what he talks about is stuff that is about him, especially stuff before we got married and had kids.

I have a thought: I wonder if focusing on the bad is your way to validate your own reality given he has completely erased it. His erasing of a life together is immensely invalidating, it's like saying you never existed. By painting him black and focusing on the details and specific memories of his behavior, you are reclaiming your reality.

I think you may be on to something. Your comment "it's like saying you never existed" really speaks to me. I think that is why I find some of his behavior so hurtful. There are times when it feels like I don't exist as a person to him.

About a month ago, he had to come tell me about the love of his life. She was some girl that he used to know in college and he had always had a huge crush on her. She looked him up and they reconnected. He talked about it like he was picking up where he left off with her. It was like I didn't exist at all. Or, if I did, I was just holding space until he got the girl that he really wanted, HER. I went off the rails hearing him go on and on about her. I didn't say anything to him. I contacted her and talked to her. When it was all said and done, she blocked him and still has me as a friend. I know that what I did was wrong. I can come up with all sorts of rationalizations and excuses for what I did. I was mad and hurt and felt like I didn't exist. I wanted to prove to him that I DO exist.

It didn't really matter at the end of the day as he is already on to his next conquest. I think that is ultimately why she blocked him. I shared with her that he had already moved on to someone else after she backed away from him and just wanted to be friends with him. He had love bombed her like crazy. I know, this was triangulation. It was wrong on so many different levels. It was immature and a whole bunch of other things that I have complained about my ex being. The irony of it all is not lost on me. I sit and vent and complain about him yet I have sunk to his level at different times during this whole ordeal.

At least I suspect that is part of what I am doing, too. I ruminate over memories, almost as if to declare "you won't remember I will, you can't take my reality from me anymore."

I do feel fortunate that the kids and I can go down memory lane together. The kids and I talk about the good and the bad with regard to their dad. I find it immensely helpful to listen to their perspective of things. The kids and I have actually been talking a lot about how much we miss the goofy guy that used to be annoying but cute and funny. And, we talk about the guy that he has become and why I can't have him live with us again.

The harder stuff is the stuff that happened behind closed doors. The more difficult stuff is the intimate stuff that nobody really knew about. It was kept quiet. Only my best female friend was privy to some of that stuff. I find myself ruminating over that stuff because I am still trying to process a lot of the stuff that happened there. The letter that I linked to further up the thread is stuff that I feel like I am just now beginning to process. It was really difficult to process that stuff when I had to wake up and see him every. single. day. It was difficult to even allow myself to really remember some of it because it put me in such an emotional state that I couldn't deal with him. Just the sight of him would trigger me some days. That has improved tremendously. I still have my bad days here and there. At least now, I don't have to see him as often and I can go for several days without seeing him or talking to him at all. That makes it much easier to process.

[HurtinNW]

Vortex,   

This stuff is so crazy-making. I also don't know if my ex really didn't remember, or was just pretending to himself, or? All I know is one moment I was there, and then next it was like I had never existed.

I think of this as the "where's Waldo" of BPD. Our entire reality can be erased. All of a sudden nothing happened. We didn't happen. Our love, our fears, our pains, our mistakes and our good times. None of it happened. If we get idealized all of a sudden we pop up again. Hey, I'm there! But them bam, we disappear again.

You know, I don't think what you did was wrong. I may be the odd one out here, but 1) you were doing the sisterhood thing. If I heard about a friend dating someone I knew was abusive, I would tell her. That's part of my home culture and I find it honorable. 2) You were speaking to your truth. If what you told her was only the truth, and not lies, then you gave her a choice. It would be different if you had lied. You just told your truth. Please don't devalue that.

I get owning your motives for why you did it, that is so wise of you. I think we need to own those feelings more. The anger, the desire for revenge. Good for you for owning that!

I am also super glad I have my kids. They are my reality check. They have healthy attachments and didn't like my ex. When he denied being abusive in front of them, they spoke the truth. Even now they talk about his critical, mean-spirited comments and the horrible way he treated us. It's like a myth buster. If I doubt myself I know they are there, ready to set me straight if I asked. They are adamant he not come back.

About the behind-closed-doors stuff you wrote about before: that was abuse. That was exploitation of the most awful order. Really. Just plain awful. I have a little personal knowledge of that, having been involved with a man who was into voyeurism. They talk you into stuff and then put the blame on you. I have a history of childhood sexual abuse and was very vulnerable to being manipulated that way. Lots of us women are socialized that once we get married we don't want to say no to our husbands, and if we are feeling guilt or shame that makes it worse. You lose your sense of self in that place. It's hard to regain. It can be a way to shame and reduce us so we feel no one else will want us. I know I struggled with that for a long time.   

[vortex of confusion]

All I know is one moment I was there, and then next it was like I had never existed.

That is a great way to describe it. It was like he could shut me out whenever I became an inconvenience to him whether it was to play his games or chase others.

I think of this as the "where's Waldo" of BPD.

Oh my! This is so spot on and is the source of a lot of the confusion that I have felt. We have 4 kids together. How the heck can he throw me away like he did?

You know, I don't think what you did was wrong. ... .You just told your truth. Please don't devalue that.

Thank you for this! The lady thanked me profusely. She seemed to be pretty healthy as she said that a lot of what I told her confirmed some of the uneasy feelings she was having about him. He was love bombing her. At one point, she told me that she felt like he was in love with some kind of fantasy of her rather than her. She said that he had no idea who she really was and hadn't even had enough time to get to know her well enough to say the things that he was telling her. He was telling her stuff like, "I used to be so grumpy before I met you. Now, I am doing so much better and am getting along with my family so much better, blah, blah, blah." Over the years, I have contacted a couple of the women that he was chasing. I know it doesn't do any good at all. It is a pointless endeavor because for every one that I contact, there will be others. I love what my friends tell me. Any person with an ounce of self respect will run like heck once they get to know him a little. So far, most of them don't even make it to the meeting phase. I think he has yet to have a second date with any of them in the 3 or so years that he has been chasing others.

I am also super glad I have my kids. ... .They are adamant he not come back.

My kids don't want him back either. He is their dad and they love him and they worry about him. They don't want him here. In the months before he left, I had been preparing the kids for his eventual departure. One of the kids kept asking, "Mom, when are you going to make dad leave?" She was eager to get him out of here. 

About the behind-closed-doors stuff you wrote about before: that was abuse.

Ex doesn't seem to understand the magnitude of what he did. Yes, I did go along with it. Some of it was even my idea. It became abuse when he started pushing me and disregarded me when I expressed hesitation and concern. It became abuse when he would demand details and then be a jerk if I wouldn't give them to him. I completely lost my sense of self in all of that. I hate to admit this but there was another incident after the incidents that I mentioned in Oct. of 2014. That incident was pretty life changing for me. I arranged another threesome situation. 

What made it life changing is that the other person was really paying attention to me. Nothing happened because I looked at him and he saw the fear and all of the pain that I had been hiding. He gave me this look that said, "It is okay to stop. You don't have to do this." I stopped everything and I didn't do go through with it. Ex had no clue what happened. He was too busy being caught up in his own little fantasy world.

Like you, I have a history of sexual abuse. I know it makes no sense that I needed permission to stop and NOT go through with it. It sounds preposterous to be this age and still struggle with this. I know it is a direct result of stuff that happened when I was a child. The stuff with ex has been bringing up some of that stuff. His reaction to all of this is very similar to the reaction that my parents had when I was a kid. After the abuse was discovered when I was a kid, we went on a trip and I was jokingly asked if I wanted to share a bed with the person that had been messing with me. Um, way to completely dismiss my experience. Oddly enough, I didn't blame the perpetrator because he was just a kid too. Like my parents, it feels like ex expects me to forget about it all, sweep it under the rug, and move on with life like none of it ever happened.

[Meili]

Thank you for this!

I am making progress. It is is soo very slow and so very painful at times. I want to be free of him and I want to be done with this. I know me and I know my tendency to be nice. I feel like I need to hold on to every single shred of everything that was wrong with the relationship so that I don't allow myself to be recycled or sucked back into his fantasy world.

Well, to be blunt, there's huge difference between being nice and allowing yourself to be taken advantage of.

I will also put this out there for your consideration: For 18 years you were a very strong woman who endure quite a bit. You are still that same woman with the same strength. You don't even necessarily need to redirect that strength!

My presumption is that you used your strength to get what you wanted, a loving family. Your posts indicate that is what you still want. Here's the kicker though, your partner was working against you. So, keep the strength, just change the partner! (Or, leave the partner out of the equation all together because you and your kids are still a family after all!)

[vortex of confusion]

Well, to be blunt, there's huge difference between being nice and allowing yourself to be taken advantage of.

I have had quite a few people bring that to my attention. There is a big difference between being nice and being a push over. I tend towards being a push over.

I will also put this out there for your consideration: For 18 years you were a very strong woman who endure quite a bit. You are still that same woman with the same strength. You don't even necessarily need to redirect that strength!

I feel like I do need to redirect that strength. For years, I used my strength to find ways to do things to try to keep my family in tact. I have to continue to let go of that idea and embrace the fact that it is going to be me and the kids moving forward.

My presumption is that you used your strength to get what you wanted, a loving family. Your posts indicate that is what you still want. Here's the kicker though, your partner was working against you. So, keep the strength, just change the partner! (Or, leave the partner out of the equation all together because you and your kids are still a family after all!)

Oh yes, he was very much working against me and I didn't even realize it. I wondered why some things seemed so difficult. It has become painfully obvious that ex was the fly in the ointment. The kids and I are pretty close and we have a lot of fun together when ex isn't around.

Ex has been out of our inner circle of trust for quite a while now. It is definitely an us (me and the kids) and him situation. At different times, the kids have said things like, "The dog is more of a man than dad." They have made comments like, "You are the mom and the dad in this house." The kids have joked about me taking care of six kids, the four of them, the dog, and dad. I have four daughters. That is going to present some unique challenges for me. I think the kids and I will be okay.

I have a boyfriend and he is great. The kids don't know that he is my boyfriend. It is easy to keep that piece of information from them as it is a long distance relationship where we don't see each other in person that often. I don't think the kids need to know as we are still trying to find a new normal and process the fact that it is just us and that we can love dad/ex and care about him without wanting to live with him.

I don't know why but the comment about changing the partner doesn't sit well with me. I think it is because I feel like my kids only have ONE biological dad, my ex. No other man will ever be their dad. Sure, I can have a life partner that acts as a strong role model for them but he will not be their dad. Even if the kids call somebody else dad, it isn't going to change the fact that ex and I made a choice to have these kids together.

I think this stems from my own attachment to my dad. My dad can be a real douche. I was a daddy's girl as a kid so I tend to be biased in favor of dads.

[Meili]

Being a biological father does not make a man a dad. But, that is simply a matter of perspective and definition. But, I completely understand what you're saying. That's why I also commented about leaving out the partner and the definition of family just be you and your kids.

The point was, that you don't need your stbx to have the loving family that you have dreamed of. Think of it this way, if we would have died before you realized just how crazy it had gotten, would you be as torn up over the idea of losing the "family" that you dreamed of, or would you have mourned his death?

[vortex of confusion]

Being a biological father does not make a man a dad. But, that is simply a matter of perspective and definition. But, I completely understand what you're saying. That's why I also commented about leaving out the partner and the definition of family just be you and your kids.

The point was, that you don't need your stbx to have the loving family that you have dreamed of. Think of it this way, if we would have died before you realized just how crazy it had gotten, would you be as torn up over the idea of losing the "family" that you dreamed of, or would you have mourned his death?

I have a loving family now. It isn't something that I am dreaming of for the future. It is something that I have now. I want him to be a part of that loving family even if he doesn't live in the house with us. I want him to be a part of that loving family while trying to find ways to protect myself. To get back to the topic of this thread, I am trying to figure out how to detach while protecting myself. Focusing on the negative is helpful at times.

He isn't dead. I don't see how the use of hyperbole is useful when trying to find a place of balance where I can detach and protect myself without resorting to unhealthy behaviors. He will be a part of our lives whether I like it or not. I do not see a judge granting me sole custody without giving him some kind of visitation. Dead people don't get visitation and they don't have legal rights to their children.

[Meili]

I see your point. I apologize for the comparison. It made sense in my head at the time. When my wife and I divorced, it was easier for to think about how I would respond to being a single parent if she had died vs. the divorce. I can clearly see that thinking doesn't work for everyone.

Also, I am sorry if I insulated that you didn't have a loving family now. That is not what I meant either. You and your children clearly have a loving family with or without him.

Again, I apologize.

[vortex of confusion]

I see your point. I apologize for the comparison. It made sense in my head at the time. When my wife and I divorced, it was easier for to think about how I would respond to being a single parent if she had died vs. the divorce. I can clearly see that thinking doesn't work for everyone.

Also, I am sorry if I insulated that you didn't have a loving family now. That is not what I meant either. You and your children clearly have a loving family with or without him.

Again, I apologize.

No worries. I apologize if I sounded a bit defensive. I think the mention of death struck a nerve with me for a couple of reasons. One, there was a brief period when ex would use threats or innuendos of suicide whenever I would try to have serious discussions with him about things. He stopped it after he got on an antidepressant and I told him that if he did it again I was going to call 911. But, the end result is that I became afraid to bring up anything with him for fear that he might actually do it. I used to fret over what I would do if he actually went through with it. On some level, I still worry about pushing things too hard and having him respond like that.   

The other reason that I am sensitive to comparing this to death is that in the last year I lost my nephew to suicide and my grandma passed away. I am still adjusting to life without my grandma as she was the matriarch of the family. Even though her mind had been gone for a while, I could still sit and talk to her and she would drop nuggets of wisdom.

My family is so much bigger than just me and the kids. I am not alone in this. My FOO is very dysfunctional yet they still find ways to help me in small ways. I was torn about Father's day and how to handle it. My FOO hosted a Father's day get together and invited us all so that I wouldn't have to deal with ex. I got to be with my dad. The kids got to be with their dad and I was insulated from any potential crap with ex. He tends to be a good boy around my family.

[Meili]

 I am glad that you have a supportive family through all of this. Support is great to have through all of this.