Turning points

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

It is likely that my next biblical counseling, in just under a week, will be a turning point.

My wife broke attorney client privilege and gave information "to the other side".  She thought she would find out "what I really had been up to" so called them directly.  Still to soon to see if any legal damage or actual impact will come out of this. 

Biblical counselor was more upset at me for "condemning" my wife and did ask my wife is she could see how "I might see this as her going behind my back".  She said she could.

No apology, no asking for forgiveness. 

I take this as the most serious breach of trust there has ever been in our relationship, we've had some whoppers.

On and off  since 2009 we have been in some form of counseling.  Forms that focused on grace, love, openness, trust... .etc etc have correlated to an increase in self destructive relationship "acting out" on the part of my wife.  There are usually a good period and then bad sabotage.

Counseling that focuses on respect, boundaries, individual accountability have stabilized the relationship more.

We are currently focused on the grace and love stuff... .we need to change course.

More later.

FF

[formflier]

It is likely that my next biblical counseling, in just under a week, will be a turning point.

My wife broke attorney client privilege and gave information "to the other side".  She thought she would find out "what I really had been up to" so called them directly.  Still to soon to see if any legal damage or actual impact will come out of this. 

Biblical counselor was more upset at me for "condemning" my wife and did ask my wife is she could see how "I might see this as her going behind my back".  She said she could.

No apology, no asking for forgiveness. 

I take this as the most serious breach of trust there has ever been in our relationship, we've had some whoppers.

On and off  since 2009 we have been in some form of counseling.  Forms that focused on grace, love, openness, trust... .etc etc have correlated to an increase in self destructive relationship "acting out" on the part of my wife.  There are usually a good period and then bad sabotage.

Counseling that focuses on respect, boundaries, individual accountability have stabilized the relationship more.

We are currently focused on the grace and love stuff... .we need to change course.

More later.

FF

[Verbena]

I'm sorry this happened and can see why you'd be so upset about it.  I know that you've done marriage counseling for years now, but what about counseling for just your wife? 

All the marriage counseling in the world can't fix her mental illness.  Her issues with being paranoid seem to be at the root of almost all the problems.  Her getting help for HER (and still doing marriage counseling if you want to) seems to be called for in order for anything to really change. 

[formflier]

Yeah... .I'm back.  Had to cut first post short.

I've had several extra sessions with Psychologist.  She and several prior counselors are all in agreement that the "open and loving" version of counseling is "going the wrong way" for us.  Basically... .more information for my wife gives more opportunities for questions... .it feeds the monster.

My hope is that I have one more session with my P to clarify my message... .but the plain version of message is this.

1.  This is most serious breach of trust in marriage.

2.  Wife has choice.  

     (a)Face whatever is affecting her judgment and leading her to act out in destructive ways.  I will work (appropriately) to rebuild trust and build marriage.

     

     (b) She continues on current course.  I use boundaries to protect myself.  Will not continue with counseling that I deem to be going in wrong direction.


Bottom line:  If she owns and works on her part we have a chance at future.  If not... .I don't see how much continues.

P will help me craft message... .we've already worked on it some.  P has been pointing out how destructive she actually has been.  I've been downplaying it for far too long.  

Honestly... .I still don't get it.  But I realize that I am totally worn out by this.  Yes there are good periods, but those are a set up for a bigger destruction.

FF

[KateCat]

Good (hard) work on your part. 

I would question only the part of your post that follows. Does your wife really "have a choice," do you think, based on her long-standing behaviors? I think she has done some serious damage to herself over the years, as well as to you, by her actions. And does your wife really understand what "continu[ing] on [her] current course" means?

I mention the above only because of my own conclusion that this type of choice or decision can't really emerge from a person with clinical paranoia. (Maybe your psychologist will have a different view than I do.) For my part, I could imagine your wife appearing to agree to all sorts of things, in order to stay married, but then not having the follow-through you might hope for.

2.  Wife has choice.  

     (a)Face whatever is affecting her judgment and leading her to act out in destructive ways.  I will work (appropriately) to rebuild trust and build marriage.

     

     (b) She continues on current course.  I use boundaries to protect myself.  Will not continue with counseling that I deem to be going in wrong direction.

I'll just beat my little tin drum one last time here and say that I've never heard it said there exists an effective treatment for paranoia.

[formflier]

 

You are correct... .from what I know... .about paranoia.  The basis is that most don't think they are wrong, so nothing to treat.

OR

They don't trust those that are trying to treat them.

I agree... .it is likely not going to "work".  But... .I'm also not going to continue with a course of action that multiple professionals are saying is "feeding the monster".

Please don't read anything in this that says "I'm hopeful" or "relief is just around the corner".

P has already coached me on some words to NOT say... .so as to lesson guilt/shame.  But also concedes there is no easy way out.

Wife has never stood still for very long to let any reputable professional into her life for very long.  They get a glimpse and off she goes.

I'm not going to continue life this way.  Perhaps I stay married... .have rock hard boundaries and just do my own thing.  Who knows

FF

[KateCat]

If you move forward as an independently-employed individual, is there any serious way your wife will be able to harm you in the future?

[Lilyroze]

FF,

Just trying to understand is she paranoid or paranoid with prior reason? Meaning was there marital infidelity ( please don't feel you need to answer here) just to yourself? If so was that trust broken and hard to fix? Could it be possible reason behind her behaviour? If not has she always been paranoid? Are you planning to continue counseling or divorce or what is your action plan if she refuses mental health?

[formflier]

If you move forward as an independently-employed individual, is there any serious way your wife will be able to harm you in the future?

My guess is that she can always find a way... .when she puts her mind to it.

Certainly I can use boundaries to lessen the chances.  Keep files locked/digitally locked.  Not have phone conversations when she is around etc etc.

Even with that, she can make things difficult.  I've had her follow me around house before, open locked doors or otherwise create drama.  Not helpful to have a business phone call.

FF

[formflier]

FF,

Just trying to understand is she paranoid or paranoid with prior reason? Meaning was there marital infidelity ( please don't feel you need to answer here) just to yourself? If so was that trust broken and hard to fix? Could it be possible reason behind her behaviour? If not has she always been paranoid? Are you planning to continue counseling or divorce or what is your action plan if she refuses mental health?

No affairs, hookups or any of that.  After years of marriage she confessed to a one night thing before we were married.  I forgave her.  There is the chance she figures I will "return the favor".

The P had me do an exercise for her:  I wrote out all of the sexual allegations (just sexual... .no financial or other stuff) and send it to her.  My guess is that P wanted to get a better flavor and also P wanted me to get a more total picture of how serious this is, rather than telling this story... .and next month that story... .and the month after that another one.

Well in bulletized format (so no great detail) I got three pages of content in under 30 minutes, without evening straining.  10 more minutes resulted in a few more "oh yeah... forgot about that one... ."

Again... .this was just sexual allegations.  

Ground zero:  Married approximately 15 years.  We have been out of home for about 6 months due to natural disaster.  Wife decides to stay in house that was flooded with no prior coordination with me.  I was getting ready to drive back to house we lived in with another family (they took us in).  Wife said that I wanted to go spend time with wife of the family rather than stay with her.

Truth:  I was tired and wanted hot shower and good nights sleep.  We had been working on house all day.  Also, I was scared to death to stay in house becaue of trauma from flood.  I decided to stay with my wife, but cried a lot because of my trauma.  Wife says I was crying because she "broke up" the relationship with the wife of family that took us in.  

That was really bad night.

Looking back, I can see some eccentricities before that... .but seriously... .for 15 years I had no idea.  Granted, I came and went with military a lot.  

Since 2009 it presents in a cyclic fashion.  As I have applied tools and stopped invalidating it has gotten a lot better.

A lot better means longer good periods but the bad stuff gets worse.  Such as providing the opposite side protected information in a legal case.



I used to think there were lines that she would not cross.   I no longer think that

Seriously, the other side could not compel her to say any of this, even with a court order.  We had been careful to preserve attorney client privildge and to preserve spousal privildege.  Wife was 100% on my side and when she called the other side, was still acting like the super christian wife on the road to recovery with me.

Sigh,

FF

[formflier]

KateCat,

The icing on the cake, is that right now the Biblical Counselor is telling her to assume she is working this fall in the same job she had.

She is doing professional continuing ed for a couple days at a local university.  Today is second day. 

This morning I offered to make her a bagel or otherwise assist her with breakfast.  She was about "1 notch" below nasty when she responded that she would get it herself... ."because that's what I have to do... all the time... ."  (I didn't take the bait)

I was by the front door as she was getting her keys, trying to help her make sure that got off OK, perhaps give her hug and kiss.  I said something pleasant to her, said she looked great (which she did).

Silence.

She made big obvious thing of walking back and forth in front of me while getting keys and cell phone sorted out.  Opened the door and left without saying a word or any acknowledgment that I was standing there.

My guess is it is resentment from "having to work".

There have been lots of threads and questions on here questioning my wife's ability to hold down a job long term.  On the job side she can do it.  But where the relationship comes in, she can't.  Sure, she can dress it up and behave properly for weeks and even months but ... .

FF

[KateCat]

This morning I offered to make her a bagel or otherwise assist her with breakfast.  She was about "1 notch" below nasty when she responded that she would get it herself... ."because that's what I have to do... all the time... ."  (I didn't take the bait)

I was by the front door as she was getting her keys, trying to help her make sure that got off OK, perhaps give her hug and kiss.  I said something pleasant to her, said she looked great (which she did).

Silence.

She made big obvious thing of walking back and forth in front of me while getting keys and cell phone sorted out.  Opened the door and left without saying a word or any acknowledgment that I was standing there.

Even better--and not "taking the bait" at all--will be to steer clear of your wife in these morning moments and perform the acts of service that are important to you in the evenings and on weekends. That's when they will be appreciated.

[Fian]

I guess I am a little confused here.  Last I was hearing was that the Biblical counselor was making positive changes in your relationship with your wife.  Her interfering with your sleep was a thing of the past.  You were on the ropes on whether you would stay in the marriage or not.  Because of the biblical counselor, your wife is making real changes in her behavior for the betterment of the marriage.

It now appears that the biblical counselor is not giving good guidance on her paranoid behavior that may have sabotaged a legal settlement.  As a result you want to punt on the biblical counselor.

As it appears to me, you have 2 options:

• Continue with biblical counselor, and accept that sabotage will not be fixed.  Worst case scenario you will suffer a financial loss from her actions.



• Not continue with biblical counselor.  Your wife will blame you for not accepting counseling, and will probably lose all that you have gained from the counseling.  I also don't see how this is likely to improve your chances of a better legal settlement.

It appears that the second option leads you back down the road towards divorce.  This time, you won't have counseling as an option.  The reason for the divorce will be over money (loss of money as a result of a sabotaged divorce settlement).  Is that the path that you want?

[formflier]

 

My wife was doing better things.  Is doing better things.

But I have ZERO trust in her now.  There is no line that she has been faced with, that she has not twisted a way up in her mind to cross.

This was disclosed at last biblical counseling.  90% of attention was on me for "not loving my wife" or "condemning" her.

10% was on discussing the "possibility" that I might see this as going behind my back.  She allowed that I might see it that way.

The basis of the biblical counselors approach is that if I "lead" and "love" her well enough that the family will right itself and she will become a submissive wife.  I've done other rounds of counseling that focused on things like that and they ALL resulted in major things like this happening, while wife was putting on a show (or really trying) to act like a christian wife at home.

We have done other types of counseling that focused more on understanding and RESPECTING each others feelings and differences, individual accountability, etc etc and those tended to stabilize things more.

Unless biblical counselor is willing to lead her to repentance and lead her to work on rebuilding trust, I don't see any way that it is wise for me to continue down a path of proven destruction.  Multiple PhD level Psychologists that are familiar with our case have expressed skepticism in any real healing in biblical counseling.  Many have here as well.

This was my wife's choice to go there.  I supported it and gave it a shot.  Honestly had some hope for a while. 

I do not want to get divorced, but I WILL NOT make unwise or unhealthy decisions for myself or my family because I am afraid of getting divorced or "what my wife will do".

If she owns this and works on it, there is a chance.  I fully realize it is NOT likely she will own this or a pattern of relationship destructing behaviors.  I will give her the chance to own this, in the healthiest, kindest, firmest way that I can.

FF

. 

[KateCat]

Maybe the psychologist is working hard on an assessment of how ill your wife likely is and how much change your wife may be able to manage. And an assessment of ways in which you can and cannot protect yourself from her condition.

Maybe you can pause for a little while before making major decisions or challenges to your wife. The psychologist seems to be "on the case."

[Cat Familiar]

My wife was doing better things.  Is doing better things.

But I have ZERO trust in her now.  There is no line that she has been faced with, that she has not twisted a way up in her mind to cross.

This was disclosed at last biblical counseling.  90% of attention was on me for "not loving my wife" or "condemning" her.

10% was on discussing the "possibility" that I might see this as going behind my back.  She allowed that I might see it that way.

The basis of the biblical counselors approach is that if I "lead" and "love" her well enough that the family will right itself and she will become a submissive wife.  I've done other rounds of counseling that focused on things like that and they ALL resulted in major things like this happening, while wife was putting on a show (or really trying) to act like a christian wife at home.

This really upsets me, FF, that the B counselor's focus is upon you. And that focus seems punitive. Yes, your wife will obey and not provoke in ways where he could hold her accountable, such as disrupting your sleep. But this is a band-aid approach to counseling, in my mind. I don't think this guy has enough training to know exactly who he's dealing with. And the word that jumps out in my mind is TRIANGULATING.

We have done other types of counseling that focused more on understanding and RESPECTING each others feelings and differences, individual accountability, etc etc and those tended to stabilize things more.

Unless biblical counselor is willing to lead her to repentance and lead her to work on rebuilding trust, I don't see any way that it is wise for me to continue down a path of proven destruction.  Multiple PhD level Psychologists that are familiar with our case have expressed skepticism in any real healing in biblical counseling.  Many have here as well.

This was my wife's choice to go there.  I supported it and gave it a shot.  Honestly had some hope for a while. 

I do not want to get divorced, but I WILL NOT make unwise or unhealthy decisions for myself or my family because I am afraid of getting divorced or "what my wife will do".

If she owns this and works on it, there is a chance.  I fully realize it is NOT likely she will own this or a pattern of relationship destructing behaviors.  I will give her the chance to own this, in the healthiest, kindest, firmest way that I can.

FF

I don't think she's gonna own it nor is she capable of owning it. You could play the Biblical husband role and say unilaterally that you've decided that you two need a more skilled counselor, so therefore you both will be seeing the psychologist who happens to be a Christian and will not return to the Biblical counselor. But thanks to him, you know that you need to assume leadership in your marriage and this is how it will be. Don't think there's a likely chance of her becoming the submissive little wife and agreeing to that, but who knows?

[formflier]

Maybe the psychologist is working hard on an assessment of how ill your wife likely is and how much change your wife may be able to manage. And an assessment of ways in which you can and cannot protect yourself from her condition.

Maybe you can pause for a little while before making major decisions or challenges to your wife. The psychologist seems to be "on the case."

She is... .and she said much the same thing, albeit with different words.  However, she is also in agreement that biblical counseling is going in wrong direction and any further "driving down that road" is counterproductive.

Perhaps this Monday only opens the conversation about needed changes.  I have no intention to "blow it up".  I also have no intention of continuing a proven failed strategy.

The immediate need, that the P is on, is how to best communicate this, with the best chance of message being received well... .but for the message to also be clear.

We've passed some emails back and forth and are hoping for at least one more session in person before this coming Monday.

Being  very conscious to "restrain" my mind form going to "it's over", while at the same time building resolve for me to choose a different path, regardless of the choices of my wife.

So... .I'm taking the kiddos swimming.  Just me and kiddos.

Honestly, I don't feel like it.  But I think now is the time for deliberate self care... .when I really would rather check out for a while.

FF

[KateCat]

The psychologist is sending a clear message that the biblical counseling is best discontinued now, it seems. It also sounds as though the psychologist is aware that this will be a delicate matter in the execution.

Definitely, take extra good care of yourself just now. 

[Cat Familiar]

The way I saw your wife's request for Biblical counseling was that she wanted more validation that she was right and that you were the problem. And apparently that occurred in the last session when he faulted you more for being upset than your wife for sabotaging your legal situation.

[Fian]

"But I have ZERO trust in her now."

I don't think this is new.  If you live with a person with BPD or PPD, they will do things that you don't like.  If your bar is that you can trust them, I don't know that many will pass that bar.

"I do not want to get divorced, but I WILL NOT make unwise or unhealthy decisions for myself or my family because I am afraid of getting divorced or "what my wife will do"."

We all do things that are unwise.  I don't see how her action was unhealthy.  I do see that it has caused a potential hit on the families finances.

You seem to think that the biblical counseling is making your wife worse.  From what I have read from you, it really seemed to be making her better.  I do agree that if counseling is making her worse, it is better to not go (I did that before too), but I am just not seeing it in this case.

One food for thought.  I know in my own marital difficulties, when you have a period where things are "good", it is easy to overreact to a "bad" because it triggers the fear that all the good was transitory and you are going back to bad.  And having tasted good, you don't want to give it up.

[formflier]

Fian,

My wife made promise to me to keep information between us.  Privilege was explained and accepted.

She had doubts about my story and situation and reached out to our enemies.   Those trying g to harm our family and my reputation.

They denied her information at first.  She participated in an interview with two different members of the opposition and then they fed here a bunch of lies and conjecture... .which she confronted me about.


Just because that is what ppd people do doesn't make it healthy.

FF

[Fian]

I understand the situation is bad, and I would be upset about it too.  But it seems to me that you are going nuclear over this, and potentially introducing even more harm by getting rid of the only counselor that seems to be able to get your wife to agree to some changes.  I don't see a "win" for you by dropping the counselor.

From your wife's perspective, even though she didn't always agree with the counselor, she did what he asked.  But when he was saying things that you didn't like, you dropped him.  Can you imagine how a person with PPD is going to write the script for this?  She will take it as validation that you are unstable/"the person who is at fault in your marriage"/etc.

[formflier]

 

She has "for the most part" done what he has asked.

It would appear she is in the middle of a decent dysregulation.  Counselor, Dinah and I have a clear understanding that if either one of us asks the other partner to go speak in private, that it will be honored.  She is about 50% on actually doing that.  I "give her grace" for the 50 that she doesn't do to try to keep the temp down.

Today she comes home and starts barking orders at kids.  Countermanding the plan I have laid out, or really just ignoring it as she didn't ask... .she just did.

I asked her to go speak in private.  Nope... .no time. 

Asked her again... will speak after done with kids.

Reminded her of commitment... .  "Get a job Mr Christian man".

All of this said in a loud booming voice so everyone in house could here.  I was attempting even measured tones.

Approx 15 minutes of ranting and stomping around the house.  I retired to my room and asked for guidance via email

The biblical counselors response was to send me an article about needing to consider myself crucified already, so whatever happens in this life really doesn't matter.

She is still doing some light huffing and puffing and muttering under her breath... .45 minutes later.

I'm not trying to argue with you Fian... .and you have some good points. 

I am more worried about making healthy choices for me and my family that how my wife may perceive things.  That does matter, to a point (her perceptions).

I will have and live a different life... .one way or another.  Yes, it is important to be smart about the way I go about this, to give the r/s the best chance there is to survive or find an acceptable way to continue.

FF

[formflier]

I don't think she's gonna own it nor is she capable of owning it. You could play the Biblical husband role and say unilaterally that you've decided that you two need a more skilled counselor, so therefore you both will be seeing the psychologist who happens to be a Christian and will not return to the Biblical counselor. But thanks to him, you know that you need to assume leadership in your marriage and this is how it will be. Don't think there's a likely chance of her becoming the submissive little wife and agreeing to that, but who knows?

Unfortunately... .I agree with your assessment.

There is also a part of me... .big part... .that is not comfortable with the "I'm in charge here... .this is what we are going to do" approach.  That's just not who I am... .in a relationship anyway.

Honestly, I was rarely that way in the military.  I tried to "coach" my team to come up with right answer, rather than command.  Certainly there where times I had to just say it and get on with it... .but... .

FF

[Verbena]

The biblical counselors response was to send me an article about needing to consider myself crucified already, so whatever happens in this life really doesn't matter.

Are you serious? 

[formflier]

The biblical counselors response was to send me an article about needing to consider myself crucified already, so whatever happens in this life really doesn't matter.

Are you serious? 

To be clear... that wasn't the exact quote, but that was/is the implication.  If you consider yourself already crucified it is much easier to "die to self" and live for God. 

Then, (this thinking is not in article, but is in the church and counseling) if Jesus died for us and I am supposed to lead and love my wife like Jesus loved the church, I should be willing to get on the cross (figuratively) for my wife's sin.

To be fair, they also counsel women that they should submit and love a wayward husband.

It gets really mixed up when 1 spouse is not doing their part.  Individual accountability gets lost in there... .somewhere.

Basically... .my counselor keep saying to each of us, that we should focus on the log in our own eye, rather than the spec in our partners.


Oh:  And update.  My wife sent an email asking forgiveness for her actions and words in front of the kids.  Then came home and was turning on the lights and making racket in our bedroom as I was trying to sleep during my normal sleep time.  To her credit, when I asked for relief she sighed, turned off lights and closed doors.  Big sighs and she was a bit slow to act.

Never said one word.  So... ."Hey honey, can you turn off the light, I'm trying to get some sleep"     Sigh... .long pause... .slow walk to switch... .switch off.

Perhaps I am judgmental... .but anyone think that sounds like she wanted forgiveness, felt sorry or was repenting of her actions?

FF

[formflier]

In addition to the extra time with the P that I have done this week.  I have a call scheduled with my pastor from previous state/church (technically where I am still a member).

I want to talk through some of the lessons the biblical counselor is trying to teach me up here and try and compare approaches and/or clearly identify where my theology differs.

I've known this pastor for almost 19 years now and I trust he has my family's best interests at heart.  He also seems to be able to explain the different approaches that churches seems to use.

Whenever I find myself at odds with someone, I want to make sure I clearly understand why/how we are different.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

To add to Verbena's post, I must say, Biblical counselor or not, that seems like a p!$$ poor response from anyone who calls themselves a counselor. If someone sent that to me, I'd be furious and that would be the end of the counseling relationship.

[formflier]

To add to Verbena's post, I must say, Biblical counselor or not, that seems like a p!$$ poor response from anyone who calls themselves a counselor. If someone sent that to me, I'd be furious and that would be the end of the counseling relationship.

My goal is to try and go about this in a wise way.  This biblical counselor is "pushing us" to get rid of the patterns that we had before.

I've NEVER been the one to end or demand a change in the direction of counseling.  My wife is the one that will quit or somehow "blow it up".

Honestly, I don't want to end this, there has been some good that comes out of it.   But if reason can't be brought to this, or a different point of view looked at, or even explained.  I think it unwise to continue.  Plus I've got a P telling me, which is consistent with what previous ones have said, that what is going on here with "openness" and keep answering questions... .again and again is "feeding the disorder" vice helping.

Even previous Biblical counselor, which the current guy respects, got to the point of 

"FF wife, you may think about your question, ask it clearly... .one time.  FF will make sure he has the question correctly and will answer it one time.  After that, you have to "let go and let God".

Interestingly enough... .that was a period of relative calm and restraint.

FF

[Lilyroze]

FF,

Just trying to understand is she paranoid or paranoid with prior reason? Meaning was there marital infidelity ( please don't feel you need to answer here) just to yourself? If so was that trust broken and hard to fix? Could it be possible reason behind her behaviour? If not has she always been paranoid? Are you planning to continue counseling or divorce or what is your action plan if she refuses mental health?

No affairs, hookups or any of that.  After years of marriage she confessed to a one night thing before we were married.  I forgave her.  There is the chance she figures I will "return the favor".

The P had me do an exercise for her:  I wrote out all of the sexual allegations (just sexual... .no financial or other stuff) and send it to her.  My guess is that P wanted to get a better flavor and also P wanted me to get a more total picture of how serious this is, rather than telling this story... .and next month that story... .and the month after that another one.

Well in bulletized format (so no great detail) I got three pages of content in under 30 minutes, without evening straining.  10 more minutes resulted in a few more "oh yeah... forgot about that one... ."

Again... .this was just sexual allegations.  

Ground zero:  Married approximately 15 years.  We have been out of home for about 6 months due to natural disaster.  Wife decides to stay in house that was flooded with no prior coordination with me.  I was getting ready to drive back to house we lived in with another family (they took us in).  Wife said that I wanted to go spend time with wife of the family rather than stay with her.

Truth:  I was tired and wanted hot shower and good nights sleep.  We had been working on house all day.  Also, I was scared to death to stay in house becaue of trauma from flood.  I decided to stay with my wife, but cried a lot because of my trauma.  Wife says I was crying because she "broke up" the relationship with the wife of family that took us in.  

That was really bad night.

Looking back, I can see some eccentricities before that... .but seriously... .for 15 years I had no idea.  Granted, I came and went with military a lot.  

Since 2009 it presents in a cyclic fashion.  As I have applied tools and stopped invalidating it has gotten a lot better.

A lot better means longer good periods but the bad stuff gets worse.  Such as providing the opposite side protected information in a legal case.



I used to think there were lines that she would not cross.   I no longer think that

Seriously, the other side could not compel her to say any of this, even with a court order.  We had been careful to preserve attorney client privildge and to preserve spousal privildege.  Wife was 100% on my side and when she called the other side, was still acting like the super christian wife on the road to recovery with me.

Sigh,

FF

Oh my goodness FF, I don't even know what to say.  

I will say as a Christian, you are really trying hard to see Christ in her, love her like Jesus loved Church, be a good husband and father.

Does she want to be a stay at home Mom, or do a business or hobbies and you want her to work? Does she need to work for your budget? Trying to understand some other parts in this.

I normally see so many throw out their friendships, relationships, or marriages over small or trivial things in this society any-more. It is sad really.

Then... .there is us non's LOL all jokes aside we give of our hearts, try so hard to make things work, see the other side of situation and coin, give everything to rages, screaming, craziness.

Your story really tops the cake. I know there are two sides to a story, could be communication issues, misunderstandings but the paranoia is really out to destroy you both.

My best to you.

Any updates with legal, counseling, your heart or plans?

[formflier]

 

Thanks for the support.  No, she doesn't need to work, but it gives a bit of extra flexibility.

What she has said she wants is for me to tell... .or "command" her not to work.  Then she says she will keep working if I want her to.

My part is that it is her life, her career and I should stay out of it.  Part of the deal of moving to the new state is that she would work.  After we got here, she rewrote history to say that the agreement was that she would work temporarily, until I got a job.  I'm disabled, currently in voc rehab program.

She is a good teacher, has ability to connect with kids.  I have seen it in action and I have listened to those that I trust, that have seen her in action, she really is good.  Of course, she doesn't think she is, and most teachers are against her now... .etc etc.  It's sad and hard to watch, but I try to validate and stay out of it.

I will also say that I am in the midst of changes in finance, and that as part of the keep the peace efforts, I have not been a "hammer" on budget accountability.  She used to run the budget and did pretty good, until she decided I was not work, lazy and needed something to do and quit managing money.

There have been big prior trust issues in money as well.

She now makes no secret that she wants to not work and stay at home to raise kids.  Wants me at work so I have less influence over kids.  Again... she is open about this.  Right now biblical counselor is telling her to assume she will continue working.  I refuse to "tell" her one way or another. 

So, here's one that as a Christian is hard to process.  I've backed off family devotions and joint prayer time before because of disrespectful attitudes and things from my wife.  Somehow it's triggering.  So... .disrespect would look like prayer time, possibly read something together, and then share what that meant to each other.  At some point she might say something like "So you were a fraud when we lived in (fill in state or church)"  Tends to reduce intimate sharing of the gospel.

So, this biblical counselor is incredulous that it was that bad, so I readily agree to do it again.  Day 1 of family devotions was Ephesians 4.  Very basic point about unwholesome talk and building others up.  Day 2 built on that as we talked about edification.

Well, after day 1 she "confronts" me about my methods, because I asked kids how they felt about the verse.  I was risking the kids salvation by not "giving them the answer".  It was really odd.  I even wrote about it in my homework and asked the biblical counselor to make room for that first, because talk of "risking salvation" is pretty serious and that would be an area, you would think, that he could knock out of the park.  Was I teaching correctly or not... .or was it an area that is safe to agree to disagree. 

To my chagrin, didn't get brought up in counseling, because focus was on my sin for "judging" my wife because she broke legal privilege and gave the other side information.

Sigh... .

FF