Need to leave, feel stuck. Need your opinions.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all,

Thanks to each and every member here for providing support. I haven't posted in over a year, but I do visit from time to time. Just knowing that I'm not alone helps me immensely.

To make a long story short, I've been with my husband for 5 years. I suspect BPD, although he has never been diagnosed. He has most of the symptoms in the DSM (fear of abandonment, reckless driving, substance abuse, extreme rage, etc). He seems to show narcissistic tendencies as well. In the past, he has been physical - no punching, but he has pinned me down on the floor, blocked me from leaving, pulled my hair, broken things, punched himself in the head, and threatened suicide. Those have stopped, but the rages, name-calling, and threats continue.

I wanted to leave the first time this happened, but I was paralyzed with fear and hoped he could change. I have done much reading over the years, and I now understand that this will most likely continue unless he seeks specialized therapy. He does not think he has a problem, and blames me for bringing up the past (even if the past was one day ago). I go back and forth between keeping it bottled up to avoid his rage, or trying to talk. I have even read tips on how not to trigger, but nothing works. He just says I'm the one with the problem, says he is changing, but that I stay stuck in the past, and need to get over my anger or resentment.

I know at this point it's not healthy. I love and forgive him, but he doesn't understand the fear I have of him when his switch gets flipped. Which could be any time. His kids are here for the summer, so now I feel like I need to stay until they go back home. I don't want them to see me leaving their dad. Also, he started a business that I feel forced into. One day he says he can't do it without me, the next he says if I'm so miserable, I should just go. I never agreed to quit my job and work for him, but that's what happened.

Is that stupid? Do you think I should wait until they go home to leave him? Ugh, I feel so weak and stupid. I feel like this is my fault for not having the courage to leave long ago. I am upset with myself for allowing it to get to this point. It was a combination of hoping he would seek help, and fear of being honest. I find little moments to cry when he won't notice, like in the shower or when I'm vacuuming. I feel like I'm having a nervous breakdown, and I have to push all negative emotions down so as not to trigger him. Any and all advice and opinions are much appreciated.

On a positive note, I am learning about myself because of all this... .About why I would stay with someone so absorbed in themselves and invalidating of me (I think it all goes back to my mother, and the way she was, on the surface, loving and caring. In reality, she was self-obsessed and invalidating. She was actually diagnosed with histrionic PD.)

[spacemadness]

Hi all,

Thanks to each and every member here for providing support. I haven't posted in over a year, but I do visit from time to time. Just knowing that I'm not alone helps me immensely.

To make a long story short, I've been with my husband for 5 years. I suspect BPD, although he has never been diagnosed. He has most of the symptoms in the DSM (fear of abandonment, reckless driving, substance abuse, extreme rage, etc). He seems to show narcissistic tendencies as well. In the past, he has been physical - no punching, but he has pinned me down on the floor, blocked me from leaving, pulled my hair, broken things, punched himself in the head, and threatened suicide. Those have stopped, but the rages, name-calling, and threats continue.

I wanted to leave the first time this happened, but I was paralyzed with fear and hoped he could change. I have done much reading over the years, and I now understand that this will most likely continue unless he seeks specialized therapy. He does not think he has a problem, and blames me for bringing up the past (even if the past was one day ago). I go back and forth between keeping it bottled up to avoid his rage, or trying to talk. I have even read tips on how not to trigger, but nothing works. He just says I'm the one with the problem, says he is changing, but that I stay stuck in the past, and need to get over my anger or resentment.

I know at this point it's not healthy. I love and forgive him, but he doesn't understand the fear I have of him when his switch gets flipped. Which could be any time. His kids are here for the summer, so now I feel like I need to stay until they go back home. I don't want them to see me leaving their dad. Also, he started a business that I feel forced into. One day he says he can't do it without me, the next he says if I'm so miserable, I should just go. I never agreed to quit my job and work for him, but that's what happened.

Is that stupid? Do you think I should wait until they go home to leave him? Ugh, I feel so weak and stupid. I feel like this is my fault for not having the courage to leave long ago. I am upset with myself for allowing it to get to this point. It was a combination of hoping he would seek help, and fear of being honest. I find little moments to cry when he won't notice, like in the shower or when I'm vacuuming. I feel like I'm having a nervous breakdown, and I have to push all negative emotions down so as not to trigger him. Any and all advice and opinions are much appreciated.

On a positive note, I am learning about myself because of all this... .About why I would stay with someone so absorbed in themselves and invalidating of me (I think it all goes back to my mother, and the way she was, on the surface, loving and caring. In reality, she was self-obsessed and invalidating. She was actually diagnosed with histrionic PD.)

[stilinchrist]

Hi there spacemadness!

I am really sorry to hear about what you are going through. It is tough and you have been strong. I can relate and have been through similar situations. One things for sure. You need to take care of yourself. Dont become a reactor to his moods. Find your balance with hobbies interests beyond the marriage. Its good to hear his anger is more controlled now though the rage may still not be very easy to handle. Its important you build yourself up and ur self esteem with positive people and activities. Whether to stay or leave is such a personal decision isnt it. Only suggestion i have is to make your decision when you are calm. Until then love yourself. Marriage to a BPD can seem very one sided a lot of the time. May you be guided to a place of peace.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey SM-

Is that stupid? Do you think I should wait until they go home to leave him? Ugh, I feel so weak and stupid. I feel like this is my fault for not having the courage to leave long ago. I am upset with myself for allowing it to get to this point. It was a combination of hoping he would seek help, and fear of being honest. I find little moments to cry when he won't notice, like in the shower or when I'm vacuuming. I feel like I'm having a nervous breakdown, and I have to push all negative emotions down so as not to trigger him. Any and all advice and opinions are much appreciated.

I'm sorry you're going through that, it sounds very painful and confusing.  You are going through it though, and with the right focus and actions things will get better, one foot in front of the other, one day at a time.

I feel so weak and stupid. I feel like this is my fault for not having the courage to leave long ago. I am upset with myself for allowing it to get to this point.

OK, you can feel weak and stupid, and that it's your fault for not having courage, but put a time limit on it; you get to feel all those things for a while, say half an hour, and then realize that won't help your situation now, so time to start developing a vision for your future, a bright future without him in it, and then developing a plan to make it real.  If someone has been telling you everything is your fault for a while, a standard coping tool for a borderline, and you're predisposed to accepting that based on the conditions of your past, then it's easy to go there, climb on the bandwagon and beat yourself up along with them, but realize that won't help now, best to be your own best friend, so you can get out and start building the life of your dreams.

And you're putting his kid's well being ahead of your own, very noble and good intentioned, and there's a line there.  When do you put yourself first?  If you've been putting other people's needs ahead of your own for a while, easy to do in a relationship with a borderline, seems necessary, it's natural to eventually ask 'where's mine'?  What if you did what's best for you regardless?  You might feel selfish, which is another issue you can look at later, but if you were being your own strongest advocate, because who's going to do it if you don't, what would you do?  

On a positive note, I am learning about myself because of all this... .About why I would stay with someone so absorbed in themselves and invalidating of me (I think it all goes back to my mother, and the way she was, on the surface, loving and caring. In reality, she was self-obsessed and invalidating. She was actually diagnosed with histrionic PD.)

And there's the gift of these relationships.  Borderlines have a way of shining a light on our "stuff", for their own reasons, and when things get crazy and unacceptable the light is glaring, which is the good news because the things we have yet to address, some of which we may have been in denial of, are glaringly obvious, which is very cool since the path forward is now clear, the things we get to finally resolve are staring us in the face.  So how great is that?  The path forward might be to develop a plan to get out, then address lingering issues now they've been so clearly identified for you, then set about building a life you're ecstatic about and will love living.

There are folks here who know better than me how to leave a marriage and kids, and their input is readily available, but I do know that developing a compelling vision for your future, so compelling it draws you towards it, and then taking positive steps in that direction, will not only get you free, but inspire you to create the life of your dreams, not fantasies mind you, dreams become real in the world when we make them goals and work towards them, fantasies stay fantasies.  Take care of you!

[spacemadness]

Thanks for your replies & encouragement. I do need to focus more on myself, but I don't feel like that is possible as long as I'm with him. He's like my shadow... .we are always together. I have to sneak away just to post here. I can't read on my phone at night, or be in the other room while he is sleeping. He goes into a panic and demands to see what website I was on. He accuses me of hiding things from him, and I feel a weird combination of anger and guilt, because it's kind of true. I don't want him to know that I post here. I talked to the domestic abuse hotline the other day, and they suggested I go to free counseling to get help and clarity. But I can't, I would have to lie or make something up. I tried counseling once last year. He ended up getting drunk, following me there, texting me while I was in session, and accusing me of cheating with the counselor. He was parked across the street, but I didn't know. When I was getting back in my car, he called and said "I see you." It was really scary.

There have been so many things. He put his hands around my throat twice. Threatened to kill my cat with a hammer. Threatened to punch me in my ******* face and knock me the f*** out. Said things like, "You wanna be on the news tonight?" Then when his rage has passed, I'm the bad guy because I still have a memory of what happened. He expects me to sweep it all under the rug and pretend it never happened. He says I need to forgive him and stop being angry and having resentment. I do forgive him, but not talking about problems and pushing it all down is very unhealthy. I think it can probably cause cancer. I find myself wishing I could get cancer so that I could finally be free.

I don't know why I'm so concerned with leaving/not leaving him while his kids are here. I just don't want to traumatize them. They only see him several times a year. I want this to be a positive memory for them. Do you think leaving while the kids are here would traumatize them? Sometimes I think they'd probably be glad, because they're just here to see dad... .more one on one time if I left.

I don't know if I can make it 9 more weeks till they go home. Ended up asking his aunt the other day if abuse was the reason his ex wife left. She said no, it's because he could never hold down a job and wasn't a provider. I know something needs to change soon. I have been dissociating a lot. Nothing seems real. I shake uncontrollably when I post here or try to talk to anyone about it. I know leaving is the answer and yet I feel so stuck.

[fromheeltoheal]

Thanks for your replies & encouragement. I do need to focus more on myself, but I don't feel like that is possible as long as I'm with him. He's like my shadow... .we are always together. I have to sneak away just to post here. I can't read on my phone at night, or be in the other room while he is sleeping. He goes into a panic and demands to see what website I was on. He accuses me of hiding things from him, and I feel a weird combination of anger and guilt, because it's kind of true. I don't want him to know that I post here. I talked to the domestic abuse hotline the other day, and they suggested I go to free counseling to get help and clarity. But I can't, I would have to lie or make something up. I tried counseling once last year. He ended up getting drunk, following me there, texting me while I was in session, and accusing me of cheating with the counselor. He was parked across the street, but I didn't know. When I was getting back in my car, he called and said "I see you." It was really scary.

All of that comes out of a fear of abandonment, which probably has nothing to do with what you actually do and everything to do with the way he's wired, the disorder.

I don't know why I'm so concerned with leaving/not leaving him while his kids are here. I just don't want to traumatize them. They only see him several times a year. I want this to be a positive memory for them. Do you think leaving while the kids are here would traumatize them? Sometimes I think they'd probably be glad, because they're just here to see dad... .more one on one time if I left.

I think having a disordered father is traumatic enough.  I got pretty close to one of my ex's sons, who was pretty concerned about me leaving, because all of mom's boyfriends leave, and I could tell it was giving him a different viewpoint, some external input, that maybe something was up with mom that he couldn't see because he's spent his whole life with her.  So you leaving may have the same impact and end up being a good thing, since the kids will surely have challenges to face as they mature.

There have been so many things. He put his hands around my throat twice. Threatened to kill my cat with a hammer. Threatened to punch me in my ******* face and knock me the f*** out. Said things like, "You wanna be on the news tonight?" Then when his rage has passed, I'm the bad guy because I still have a memory of what happened. He expects me to sweep it all under the rug and pretend it never happened. He says I need to forgive him and stop being angry and having resentment. I do forgive him, but not talking about problems and pushing it all down is very unhealthy. I think it can probably cause cancer. I find myself wishing I could get cancer so that I could finally be free.

I don't know if I can make it 9 more weeks till they go home. Ended up asking his aunt the other day if abuse was the reason his ex wife left. She said no, it's because he could never hold down a job and wasn't a provider. I know something needs to change soon. I have been dissociating a lot. Nothing seems real. I shake uncontrollably when I post here or try to talk to anyone about it. I know leaving is the answer and yet I feel so stuck.

Time to get out IMO.  Towards the end of these relationships, when trust is gone in both directions, things can get very unpredictable and dangerous.  We've coached many folks through what you're going through, I'm not an expert, I just left relatively early and we weren't married, no kids, but there are folks here who have been through exactly what you're in the middle of, and I encourage you to keep talking.  And most importantly, as you plan your exit, you also need to have a plan B and plenty of support locally.  Dissociating and shaking uncontrollably is not good, and is your body telling you it's time to act.  There is a way out, and life will get much, much better, and good for you for reaching out here.  Take care of you!

[Meili]

Hello SM.

I'm so sorry to hear that you have gone through all of that. I can only imagine how hard it has been for you.

I know that it is probably very hard for you to see right now, but your experiencing what you have also says something about how strong you are. You may not see yourself as courageous at this moment either, but I find you extremely courageous. Perhaps you can use that courage to redirect yourself to a healthier place now?

Also, fromheeltoheal makes a good point about the kids. They may actually benefit from your removing yourself from a bad place. It has been said many times that children who grow up with parents who are dysfunctional can suffer more than if the marriage ends.

When I first posted here I was shaking also. Looking at my life and how my SO had treated me was hard and painful. It still hurts and is difficult. All things being relative, I wasn't with her very long either and there were no kids involved. That didn't make the fear of changing my life any less though.

I would encourage you to read as much as you can about the experiences of others here, learn about disordered individuals, and post what you are comfortable to get your feelings out so that you aren't stuck living in your head. There are many great and kind people here who are willing to listen. But, most importantly, I hope that you protect and take care of yourself.

[joeramabeme]

Hi spacemadness

I want to echo what others have said here and extend my sympathies.  The BPD Family site is chock full of resources.  I hear some uncertainty in your question as to whether you are fully decided about staying or leaving and so wanted to point out that there is also another Board here for people who are in the process of deciding.  That board is called ":)eciding or Conflicted" and here is the link to that board; https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=2.0.

Of course you are welcome to post anywhere that is comfortable for you, just want to point this out as perhaps some of the posts on the other board could provide some clarity - if any was needed.

Best wishes,

JRB

[spacemadness]

A sincere thank you to everyone who replied. I read your comments and cried. I live in a world right now where up is down, left is right. Even his mom tells me to support him, and she knows about some of the more severe abuse. She tells him things like "why can't my sons just find someone who loves them?" She triggers me, made worse by the fact that I believe things she did in his childhood contributed to him developing BPD. This is the only sane, safe place I have at the moment. Thank you again.

Edit: I am definitely leaving. His illness is making me sick too. I hurt for him deeply, but abuse is never ok. I'm just building up the strength. I agree that it might even be better for his kids, because he snaps at me and is mean to me in front of them. So my staying is teaching them that's how a man treats a woman. And my staying teaches them that a woman just accepts it. We have no kids of our own, so I can make a clean break.

[fromheeltoheal]

She tells him things like "why can't my sons just find someone who loves them?"

When she could be saying "why can't my sons just find someone to love?"  Learning that he was raised to take and not give explains a lot doesn't it?

[spacemadness]

Yes. Hmm, I never saw it that way. Wow, thank you. She is very self-centered, it's always her drama, she looks annoyed or uncomfortable to hear other people tell their problems.

His mom has many issues of her own, was abused in her childhood, after having children she unconsciously transferred some of her issues onto the next generation. She is a huge enabler, always bailing her adult children out of one problem or another. She also sweeps everything under the rug - unless it directly has to do with her own interests - then she makes a huge scene. I think the worst part about her is that she is a Christian, so she loves to quote the bible and tell me I need to forgive. She is a huge hypocrite, and blind. I am actually a Christian too, but I have a relationship with God. It's more than just words on paper to me. When she tries to guilt me into staying by using the bible against me, I know that the One I spend time with just wants His daughter to be safe, and find peace.

Once, several years ago, I dreamed that his mom came up to me. With black eyes and a demonic smirk, she said, "You deserve everything he's ever done to you". Such an obvious lie I almost have to chuckle now. Light will always overcome darkness. When the darkness in our lives is exposed, it dissipates and becomes as nothing. The looming shadow in the night was really just a speck.

[fromheeltoheal]

I think the worst part about her is that she is a Christian, so she loves to quote the bible and tell me I need to forgive. She is a huge hypocrite, and blind. I am actually a Christian too, but I have a relationship with God. It's more than just words on paper to me. When she tries to guilt me into staying by using the bible against me, I know that the One I spend time with just wants His daughter to be safe, and find peace.

I'm not religious, but my understanding is the goal of a Christian is to be more Christ-like yes?  Some do better than others... .

Are you developing a plan to leave SM?  Do you have local support?

[Fie]

Hello Spacemadness,

So sorry to hear about your situation. I think you have made up your mind about leaving. Please do it as fast as you can. You have no reason to stay even one other day.

I agree with everyone else on your question regarding his kids.

I agree that it might even be better for his kids, because he snaps at me and is mean to me in front of them. So my staying is teaching them that's how a man treats a woman.

I could not agree with you more.  I was  in a relationship with a BPD before. Towards the end of the relation I knew I had to leave, but I was postponing it, because I thought that was best for my daughter (she loved him a lot). Now I am realizing that it would have  been even better for  her if I had left earlier.

Do you have a support network you can rely on for rebuilding your new, happier life ? You think it's a good idea to go get that free therapy you were offered before ?

[spacemadness]

I can move in with my brother anytime. I should have done it a long time ago. I actually tried to leave twice last year, but came back because I believed in him and hoped he would get help. Now he says that because he's not physical anymore, and doesn't scream as often, that he's better and doesn't need help.

I am pretty isolated right now due to his jealousy and fear of abandonment. Once I leave, I can go to free therapy. I'm actually looking forward to it. Don't have much support otherwise, but I do have a sister & brother who understand and support me.

Two things I'm worried about: His reaction to my leaving, and his business that I feel trapped by. The business I'm less concerned with... .I never told him I would do that full-time. This is his dream, not mine. He says things that make me feel guilty, like how he can't do this without me. Tonight, for example, I will work with him in an extremely hot, non-air conditioned food truck, even though I am sick with a sinus infection. But, that is my choice, foolish as it is. I am ready to start making healthier choices.

My real fear is that he will scream and flip out in front of his kids. I honestly don't know how he will react, but it's definitely a possibility. They don't need to see that. I don't know how to gracefully exit with as little trauma as possible. Any suggestions?

[fromheeltoheal]

My real fear is that he will scream and flip out in front of his kids. I honestly don't know how he will react, but it's definitely a possibility. They don't need to see that. I don't know how to gracefully exit with as little trauma as possible. Any suggestions?

My thought is always rip the Band-Aid off, no picking at it; he's going to do what he's going to do, and I get the impulse to protect the kids, but he will have plenty of opportunities to flip out once you're gone too, so the sooner the better.  And I'd make sure your brother and/or sister are there with you, you don't want to go that alone.

That said, my leaving was easy, I just left her and she was too ashamed to contact me until months later, so I don't have the exact experience required, but plenty of folks here do, and we look forward to them weighing in.  Take care of you!

[Meili]

I agree with FH2H, if he's gonna flip out, he's gonna flip out. There's nothing that you can do to prevent that. Whether it's when you leave or the next day when reality sets in (or both!).

[Fie]

Is the house where you are living legally yours as well as his ?

Is there a possibility to move your belongings before actually telling him that you are leaving ?

You might want to move your belongings together with your brother / sister ?

When I ended the relationship with my BPD ex, I did it by text message. This is something I would normally never do. Only in this case, I felt it was the only way I could avoid his rage. I would strongly suggest you do something similar (email, phoning, text), or you do it in the presence of your brother/sister, especially since he  has been fysically violent to you before. Last thing you want is to end up in hospital - or worse. I think it's  guaranteed he will use violence against you in a situation like this, that will trigger his abandonment fears massively. And please don't hesitate to call the police. There are times  where I should  have done that, and  I didn't. And there is really no reason not to. It is not us who should be ashamed, it is them.

If he screams in front of his kids, it is him deciding to scream, not you. And if you consider breaking up by phone, you can put down the phone, so you won't even hear it. If you are worried about his children, you can contact them later on to see how they are doing (are you on speaking terms with their mum ?) But I would say your first concern  is yourself.

About you working in his business : you said it : that is HIS business,  not yours.

Please make sure you are in a safe place while breaking up with him, and make sure there is  someone  around  you can trust and who knows  about the situation.

If I were you, I would not wait.

Good luck, and remember, you are not alone. People have done  this before you and they succeeded. And so will you.