I am married, but not because I want to be married

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Thanks FF... .here are a couple of things.

Language, bio kids speak english with me. SD after 10 yrs won't/can't, nor can W. (W. is french). I speak Fr. so do bio kids.

Once we are talking (not chit chat but substance) what is different... .issues of trust, openness, a desire to listen. With bio bunch these things are present.

With SD you will notice the desire to terminate asap, and ownership of nothing.

[earlgrey]

Thanks FF... .here are a couple of things.

Language, bio kids speak english with me. SD after 10 yrs won't/can't, nor can W. (W. is french). I speak Fr. so do bio kids.

Once we are talking (not chit chat but substance) what is different... .issues of trust, openness, a desire to listen. With bio bunch these things are present.

With SD you will notice the desire to terminate asap, and ownership of nothing.

[earlgrey]

In my efforts to break away from my toxic marriage, I am slowly beginning to find my way.

For a long time I have just been keeping score. Today she did these bad things; score -4. Then she did a good thing and we are back to zero. On a daily basis my take on our situation oscillated according to her (and mine possibly) behavior. So depending on the score I would be staying one minute and wanting to leave the next.

This is great for making you crazy, and sending you round in circles.

But slowly I have been adding other parameters to the score line….for example new measures like
   How do I feel?
   What do I think?
   What am I going to do?

These questions have taken me a very long time to even ask, and an even longer time to understand how to answer.

But I do think I am getting there, and a real sense of my own requirements is beginning to take shape. The new parameters allow me to make decisions and not just react (badly) to poor behavior.

On a recent therapy session where I was in a state of great relaxation, I was asked to look in a (imaginary) mirror. It struck me as strange that I saw no reflection, no image at all. Perhaps this is the consequence of a life subordinated to others. History I now like to think.

Just this morning I made a big breakfast, W. was on the phone. We all ate together, then the phone went again, W chatted and I cleared the whole lot up. Cool. That’s the way she is. Before I would have been mad and told her how and when to have conversations. Now I just adjust the score according to how I feel. Good breakfast, poor company. MINUS TEN!

I like to think I’m on the right track……

[fromheeltoheal]

On a recent therapy session where I was in a state of great relaxation, I was asked to look in a (imaginary) mirror. It struck me as strange that I saw no reflection, no image at all. Perhaps this is the consequence of a life subordinated to others. History I now like to think.

That is an interesting and fruitful exercise; it lends a visual to self-abandonment.  If we're predisposed to put other's needs ahead of our own, and that gets amped to the extreme by being in a relationship with a borderline, we can abandon ourselves all together, as shown in the mirror.  And chances are we do that with a lot of people, not just our partner, and one gift of a borderline is they shine a light on something we may not have been aware of and/or were effectively denying.  So now that the light's on, we can put anything we want in that mirror, and make it big and bright; see that spark in our eye?  See that smile?  See that amazing background that has become our life?  Upon reflection, we've created an amazing reflection, if we say so.

[earlgrey]

something triggered my W. today and she says where are you with your ideas of divorce?

This hasn't been mentioned for several months. (I said I wanted to divorce several months ago, and she said we could work things out... .)

During these last months I have been working on me to face this issue.

She has kind of beaten me to it, and now I'm on the back foot... .but still want divorce.

Suggestions pls.

Thanks

[fromheeltoheal]

I think it's better to rip the Band-Aid off instead of pick at it EG, hurts less and things heal more quickly that way.  One thing that helps to meet a goal that is challenging is to set a date: what date will you tell your wife you want a divorce, stick to it regardless of what she says, and move forward with divorce proceedings?

[earlgrey]

Hi H2H, the band aid came off!

well I thought about it for 10 mins and said, this is show time.

I'm back in my den now, but I layed my cards on the table.

I said it wasnt' working and I wanted a divorce.

It was a very quiet exchange... .but its happened, and I kept my focus, which last time didn't happen.

Glad you are there.

[earlgrey]

also we talked about shared parenting D7.

WE didn't agree but I didn't get triggered like last time into backing down.

[fromheeltoheal]

I said it wasnt' working and I wanted a divorce.

It was a very quiet exchange... .but its happened, and I kept my focus, which last time didn't happen.

Good for you EG!  Now what do you need to do to make sure you follow through?  :)ivorce is more than one conversation yes?

[earlgrey]

I'd already seen a lawyer some time ago.

This info was also declared which put some weight into the whole discussion.

I have a draft settlement... .guess that will come out soon and see how it is received!

[formflier]

 
Has your lawyer blessed the draft settlement?  Make sure BEFORE you show her the settlement that you are 100% ok with her saying "where do I sign" with no further alterations.

Have you retained the attorney?

FF

[fromheeltoheal]

I have a draft settlement... .guess that will come out soon and see how it is received!

So by when EG, what date?  I'm encouraging you to take what you say you want.  :)ate?

[earlgrey]

Tomorrow (like 24 hrs).

I want some anger to come out before the contract is seen.

For now there has been none!

Make sense?

[fromheeltoheal]

Make sense?

Yes.  I'd rather spring it on her before the anger, since that may change things for you, but you're in the middle of it, so whatever's best for YOU.  24 hours, we'll hold you to it, and good for you!

[Moselle]

EG,

Well done for getting to this point. Lots of courage .

I'm assuming you are British, married to a French woman and living in France, from the previous posts. If this is the case, my suggestion is to get that settlement signed ASAP, rather than waiting for the anger.

Again. Respect for acting on your commitments to yourself.

[formflier]

Tomorrow (like 24 hrs).

I want some anger to come out before the contract is seen.

For now there has been none!

Make sense?

No... .doesn't make sense.  Why do you care about seeing her emotions?  That would seem to indicate (to me) that you are interested in a fight or "punishment" vice a divorce action.

If the purpose of the divorce is to "fight"... .please check motives.

If the purpose of the divorce is to legally sever the relationship, the focus on that.  Put blinders on and get it done.

I may be off base on some assumptions... please clarify.

FF

[earlgrey]

thanks everyone really great to have you there.

(yep I'm a brit in france divorcing a local)

Settlement being discussed, but she says you want div. I'll go along but I want custody.

I have said no I want 50/50. I'm guessing pretty standard discussion.

She asks WHY (divorce)

I don't want to get into you are B/NPD heavy, so I just say its not working for me, and want out.

She says... .but I'm always here for you I do not understend!

[earlgrey]

If the purpose of the divorce is to legally sever the relationship, the focus on that.  Put blinders on and get it done.


FF

blinders on (we like to call 'em blinkers    )

[earlgrey]

what a difference 6 months has made.

Ok I'm not there yet... .but my focus is!

[formflier]

I'm a "stayer" at heart, so factor that into your interpretation of my advice.

I think you need to put an agreement in front of her, see what she says.

I also think you need to clearly, in a healthy way tell her what kind of a r/s that you want...   Not in a blaming way.  I would only do this if you are open to working on things or allowing her time to work on things.

If you just want to go, then "less is more".  Blinkers on, charge for the finish line.


Reasoning for my advice:  You never know what they will do.  Each partner in a r/s has a responsibility to communicate clearly about their "stuff" (not the other persons stuff)

So, tell her what you need and expect her to respect your needs.  You need to be ready to respect her choices as well.

Now, if she says that she will do something and then she doesn't.  You need to allow time to pass to clearly get her answer... .but you have it.  She isn't going to do it.

Hope this helps.

FF

[earlgrey]

Has your lawyer blessed the draft settlement?  Make sure BEFORE you show her the settlement that you are 100% ok with her saying "where do I sign" with no further alterations.

Have you retained the attorney?

FF

missed this one... .draft was composed by my retained lawyer/attorney.

[earlgrey]

Draft settlement deliverd by hand today!

This is tough. I know I am doing the right thing, but I am having to deal with anger, blame, contempt, "destroying the family", and this is not my ideal terrain.

It all makes me feel very insecure. My stomach is in knots.

I try not to absorb, just observe. I'm holding my line.

No discussions yet... .

Saw S19 today - ":)ad you are doing the right thing". Cool.

Bumpy ride but I'm hanging on. 

[Moselle]

EG.

Well done. Keep it up. Courage to you

[earlgrey]

Thanks Moselle - just a name or you in France too?

Should I post here or start a new topic (arrangements)... .?

We are all under one roof... .W (STBex) StepD19 and D7.

Just had dinner with W. and SD 19... .mid summer but the chill in the air was arctic.

I said this is tricky, any one have any ideas how to make things easier.

W replies if I could we'd be out of here today.

Now short of me paying rent somewhere that is not going to happen.

W has a place that is rented and will not be available until April 2017, earlier if we can make a deal with tenants.

So we are likely to be sharing space for a while.

Anyone have experience with this kind of scenario and any tips?

[Moselle]

It's just a name  

In lived in Holland for 10 years and spent a lot of time in France.

Look you need to get that settlement signed. And you have to drive it hard. I'm 2.5 years later still not settled because I wasn't decisive enough and was still trying to save the thing.

My guess is she will start to do some unpredictable and hurtful stuff once she sees you are 100% decided. You are likely to be painted black and that could mean some difficulty. BPD has different levels on a continuum. How is she cooperative vs uncooperative. Safe vs dangerous?

Living with her is unlikely to work. She will feel abandoned. I tried this and it was explosive.

Do this quick. Even if you concede on some stuff. Believe me you will be grateful for a quick exit. It will save you heartache.

[earlgrey]

Discussion now (and since forever) is non existant.

I am already pretty black... .I am to blame for everything, back stabbing, hypocritical etc etc etc.

Then there is occasional attempt at reconciliation... we are good together etc.

My mind is clear it is finished.

According to local law there is a rule to calculate alimony... .she thinks the amount is unacceptable... .and for custody I have every chance of getting 50/50 if we go before a judge. However today she says she will not go with 50/50, so amicable seems out of the question.

Again any pointers welcome.

I am not a tough negotiator type (who'da guessed  - my lawyer seems good to me, but we haven't yet seen any action) but chances are the law would back my alimony and 50/50 claim if I fight it.

Best to fight or try to find amicable?

[Moselle]

EG.

 Amicable hand's down. Please take that from someone who has fought for 2.5 years. Courts, lawyers, judges. You don't want to know what this costs and the BPD  is very good at this type of fight.

You can always fight later after the divorce if you need to.

The damage to the children in a court fight is unimaginable, mostly because the borderline will use them as pawns and currency in the fight.

If you are decisive and push for it quickly you can get it through. Be kind to her. Do what ever it takes. Do it before she gets her lawyers,  family and friends involved.

Try not to discuss open ended options with her narrow them down. Set a deadline for it with her. Her mind will be all over place and disregulated. That is why she cannot accept the alimony and 50/50.  Remeber she is more like a  3 year old emotionally. How would you get a 3 year old to sign a settlement agreement? You will have to lead her through it. Reassure her that it will be okay. Keep telling her that it's best to settle and that you know you can do it. It'll be okay. Don't threaten a fight. If you do it will become her default. Stay consistent. She will eventually follow.

If I could do it again EG, I would do it this way.

[earlgrey]

thanks again Moselle - very helpful insight. 

Things have moved quickly this evening.

She didn't like the alimony... .we talked about new figures... .we are not far off. 

50/50 didn't work but we've got something similar with wednesdays and what have you... .again not far off. 

Getting this done COULD eliminate all fights!

Then she said why don't we just separate... .no need to divorce? Not sure I understand significance... .reduces level of abandonment?

If we go that route divorce is automatic after 2 yrs.

She is thinking back to our early days we lived like this when things worked.

[earlgrey]

With knotted stomach and angry W. it was clear I needed to push in the direction I wanted, and be firm.

Then of a sudden she becomes co-operative and concillatory 'why don't we just separate and stay married, try to rekindle'.

This threw me. Anger became a smile, and I was on territory that i like... .this appeared non hostile.

Some kind of ploy, brilliant manipulation, because from feeling well outside my comfort zone, I was on familiar ground again.

But it is an illusion, because while the solution seems amicable, it does not get the the heart of the matter - our incompatibility.

Maybe it is a gentle way to proceed... .any pointers please.

(FWIW I'm 58 going on 59, D7 that makes me leap out of bed in the morning (literally and figuratively) and a uB/NPDW that fills my brain with addled thoughts 24/7.)

Think she has just tripped my co-d switch and my thinking's gone fuzzy.

Perhaps I've answered my own question... .

[earlgrey]

it is just like a drug (I imagine) and dropping the habit.

But the idea of feeling good (read avoiding conflict) makes all other condiderations secondary... .IN A MOMENT OF LAPSED CONCENTRATION.

Must keep focussed.

[Moselle]

Well done you've answered your own question. The FOG of BPD clears when they are kind and cooperative. It is only half of the BPD equation.

In my view, separation can never heal a BPD relationship. It ignites the fear of abandonment in them. If there is something to salvage, it's done together.

Sometimes however a real threat of divorce can be a catalyst of change for them. Mostly they just say they will change. An honest effort and independent arrangements for therapy by them shows sincerity. Hard work over time is the only evidence of a genuine desire to heal and overcome the disease.