wth The danger of making assumptions

[Larmoyant]

My ex made contact last night. At first I thought that he was missing me and maybe, just maybe, wanted to talk. However, it’s become increasingly clear that what he wants is to offload onto me and make me suffer. I am a narcissist, a cheat, a liar who lacks integrity, all confirmed by others apparently, my therapist is a nut job, a snake, I’m unsupportive and to blame for everything. On and on. Same old. Some of it was delusional and I posted about it last night and it has carried over to this morning (if interested https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=295502.0).

He’s now gone completely off his tree.

These are the last few messages because I’ve now turned my phone off. I have a sick feeling in my stomach, my heart is racing and it’s my own stupid fault.

Him: “You didn’t love me. No one who loves someone drops them at the hospital very unwell then finishes with them while they are there. Keeps clandestine relationships with other men and involves them in the relationship. Lies to the person over and over again. Finishes with them every week so that they became an emotional wreck. Insights them with a host of psychological problems. That isn’t love. It’s not love I recognize”.

Me: “If you truly believe all of that please stop contacting me. It’s not who I am at all. None of it. It’s extremely hurtful and damaging”.

Him: “I will stop contacting you but it is true”

Me: “It’s very sad that you feel the need to inflict pain on another human being like this. What does it say about you? Do you feel better now? Offloading some of that negativity? Some of that hatred? I’m not going to reciprocate. Just going to look forward to the future knowing that I am a truly compassionate, wonderful person. I hope you get to feel the same about yourself one day”

Him: “He thinks you are truly evil, I think you’re a narcissist…… that’s normal to you”

Him: “It was the abuse hotline J put me in touch with checking I’m alright when it was the man you were keeping in touch with and lying to me about”.

He’s completely lost the plot. He’s taken parts of our previous past (ages, months/year ago) conversations and twisted them!

I don’t understand this at all.

To protect myself I’ve turned the phone off. Now to calm down. WTH!

[fromheeltoheal]

I don’t understand this at all.

To protect myself I’ve turned the phone off. Now to calm down. WTH!

If he exhibits traits of the disorder, a mental illness, it is hard to understand Larmoyant, and I'm sorry you're in that.  Best thing is to think of someone who isn't feeling good emotionally so they use the tools they're used to, to make themselves feel better, to soothe those emotions.  The tools include cognitive distortions, the 'twisted facts' you mention, projection, if he did something he's ashamed of he 'assigns' it to you, you did it, and then he can beat you up about it, ways to offload his shame onto you and make you extra-evil, again to feel better, and throw in some gaslighting and you might start to agree with him and apologize for things you didn't do.  That's not a happy place, mental illness doesn't make sense until you learn how he's wired, and your plan to turn the phone off was good, but it's clear the wheels have come off this relationship and you may want to consider eliminating all possible avenues of him contacting you, so you can look forward to that future you mention, one day at a time.  Take care of you!

[Larmoyant]

fromheeltoheal, my pain is right back up to the surface. This is touching something in me that feels unbearable. Why can’t I fix this? Why can’t I get through to him? I don’t want it to be over.

[fromheeltoheal]

fromheeltoheal, my pain is right back up to the surface. This is touching something in me that feels unbearable. Why can’t I fix this? Why can’t I get through to him? I don’t want it to be over.

Oh.  Well, this is the detaching board, meaning you do want it to be over, and there are also Deciding and Improving boards, meant to give us choices depending where we are.  In any case, you won't be able to 'fix' a mental illness, it's hardwired into his personality, it's who he is, but there are lots of tools available to folks who want to stay in the relationship; the folks on the Staying board talk about them constantly.  For me, one thing that helped was to learn about the clinical side of the disorder, how order becomes disorder, which won't make his behaviors OK but it will make them understandable, and another thing is to use the pain as motivation to dig and see what the something is that he's touching, as a means to your own personal growth, which many say is the gift of the relationship.  I encourage you to bounce around the other boards to see where you might fit best and where you'll get the most value, we're here regardless.

[Larmoyant]

I'm sorry I should have been clearer. I've been trying to detach. I've moved and he doesn't know where I live, but I'm having trouble going completely nc. I don't understand why not. I'm traumatised and attached to him in some unhealthy way. I have moments where I know I've made the right decision to leave, but other times I miss him. I thought he'd made contact to talk with me. I assumed he had, but instead he offloaded onto me. I'm so confused right now.

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm sorry I should have been clearer. I've been trying to detach. I've moved and he doesn't know where I live, but I'm having trouble going completely nc. I don't understand why not. I'm traumatised and attached to him in some unhealthy way. I have moments where I know I've made the right decision to leave, but other times I miss him. I thought he'd made contact to talk with me. I assumed he had, but instead he offloaded onto me. I'm so confused right now.

OK then, you're in the right place.



I'm traumatised and attached to him in some unhealthy way.

That's common around here, a consequence of emotionally attaching to someone who needs attachments to literally survive and doesn't have a fully formed self of their own, so they attach to 'complete' themselves.  What that feels like for us is hooks get deep in our psyche, lots to untangle as we detach, but like I said also the good news, because you can now embark on a period of profound personal growth, motivated by that trauma.  It's also very common to have the conflicted feelings you're having.

Don't know if you've read them, but there's a lot of great info here https://bpdfamily.com/portfolio-broken that will speak to what you're in the middle of.

And you might agree that stopping communicating with him is important right now, stop the bleeding, so you can get some stability as you move forward.

[Wize]

Lar, maybe you can use this most recent contact as a painful reminder of how futile any sort of honest, healthy communication is with your ex.  Sometimes when the pain is still fresh and we're dealing with denial it helps for reality to smack us in the face.  "Whap!" "yep, he's still BPD and still abusive and still unhealthy for me."

I feel you though.  Part of me wants my stbx to contact me so we can talk because I love her and miss her.  But the logic part of me knows she's ill and communication does not and has never worked. 

So keep your head up.  You made the right decision to get away from him.  Now stick to it and focus on your own life. 

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Larmoyant.

    

Hope dies last. I think you may be making the same mistake I made - assuming that the normal rules of relationships apply. They do not. Nothing that works in a normal relationship will work here.

I understand the desire to talk things through, but even if you had that opportunity, I don't think it would get you very far. During my relationship, there were a number of times when my BPDxbf and I had lucid discussions about things that were going on in our relationship and I really thought we were making progress. We made plans about what to do when he dumped me again, how to deal with his torture by text. The discussions never had any impact upon our relationship. Implementing them made no difference, the part of him that rages didn't respect or agree with the plans we had made. That part of him wasn't interested in preserving our relationship. Within days, we were right back where we were.

I'm not surprised to hear that all he wanted to do was offload. The sad reality is that our main function in these relationships is to provide support and we do that by absorbing all the bad things about themselves that they can't accept. By doing that, it stops them from feeling destroyed emotionally, but it can destroy us in the process. Remember, however, that a man who abuses does so because of his sense of entitlement and his attitudes, blaming it on his mental illness can make us feel that if he got the right help, everything would be better, however, that isn't true. The prognosis for abusive men is dire. Most abusive men only make small changes and even then, tend to revert to baseline quite quickly. And men with NPD or ASPD are the most resistant to change of all abusers. Men with serious mental health issues, like paranoia, delusions (both part of BPD), severe depression and ASPD are also the most dangerous of all abusers. And apparently, the men who do well have usually had 2 years in a good abuser programme. Psychotherapy with abusers DOES NOT WORK. All that happens is that you end up with happy, well adjusted abusers. Even if our men get help, the prognosis is bleak to say the least. Keep reading until you are convinced.

I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not you are nc. When you are ready, you will do what you need to do. Don't punish yourself for missing him or for still holding onto the dream. Be kind to yourself. I decided to read as much as possible about the disorder and also focus upon my own healing. I decided to trust that eventually, I will get to the place where I let go and whether he contacts me or not will be irrelevant. You don't have to go nc, lc is fine. No need to guilt yourself over this. Perhaps this is how we need to be sure that we're making the best decision in the long run. Keep on keeping safe though... .

Love Lifewriter

[woundedPhoenix]

Well, if he calls you a narcisist, its not because you are, it's because you finally start to grow your self-love.

BPDS tend to get attracted to people with Narcistic wounds, sometimes those become narcisist, but most other people grow different defenses against this wound, like codependancy. BPDS and nons usually have some sort of self-esteem issue underneath, which makes for the deep initial connection.

When my BPDex started calling me a narcisist as part of devaluation, i was equally shattered... .And it sets you up to try and disprove their accusation, which is based on their own feelings of inferiority rather then on a healthy view of you as a person.

I often wondered why i put so much value in what she said, and why i assumed her inner workings followed the same rules and values, why i thought i could have a functional discussion with her about these things.

And this brings me back to the mirroring that initially happens, and in my case lastest way beyond idealisation. They seem to be like you, they seem to be your other half, cause they change their chameleon colors to match yours. And you learn to trust on that mirror.

But once this mirror breaks, you find out that litterally nothing is wired the same way underneath. And you are left in shock for months and months before you finally figure this out: They are not who they made you believe they were.

And whatever way you thought you could succesfully communicate through with them, it no longer works. You were mostly communicating with the mirror, and once devaluation sets in you only get to deal with the BPD underneath, who is impossible to communicate with, certainly not in the way you used to, cause it twists litterally any of your words to match their own victim stance.

[seenr]

Hi Larmoyant

I confess to sending my ex angry texts in the past. We’d get back together and I’d try really hard, but then she would end it for apparently the smallest of reasons, leaving me hurt, confused etc. Then she would come back, ask me out again and the same cycle would happen. This made me so angry that at times I’d vent so badly she would threaten me with the police etc. The last time that happened was April 2015 when I was told she was ending it because ‘you don’t love me you don’t put me first, you are financially very mean’ (I had given her a large sum of money to go clothes shopping).

I’ve learned that those types of messages are futile. When she dumped me this time, I’d just given her a deposit for a car loan, am paying the loan, had given her money for a family function and had agreed to up the monthly contribution to the family, leaving myself very short of cash. The night she ended it she said ‘you are telling me you love me now and give it a week when your anger sets in …’. I simply didn’t say or do anything, no texts, nothing on social media, I let it go. She has made a few attempts to get me into a debate when I collect my son (the last was slamming the door really loud this week because I didn’t look at her when I picked him up) but I just do not engage.

The point I’m making is that I sent those text messages to her as I was hurting. I was hurting & wanted her to feel the pain I was in. This time around, I asked myself ‘what good would it do?’ and the answer is none. Each text might offload anger but all it really is then is a method for her to display to others ‘he’s the bad guy’. So I think your ex sending those messages may just be his way of offloading onto you and wanting you to feel pain. My ex was always very careful to put little or nothing in writing and to rage at me and say nasty things only when we were alone or people were with her whom she could control (daughter, friend, relative).

As a human being, I have learned that the most effective communication is to speak face to face with someone so they can see your demeanour & vice versa. The reason I often resorted to text message was simply because of the claims my ex made when we were face to face. We’d talk & then she would say something essentially untrue. Example – I’d come in from work & she’d say ‘go on what happened, why are you in a bad mood?’. I’d be in a great mood, but 2 minutes in being told I was in a bad mood had drained me & we would inevitable have words. By resorting to text I thought I was being more effective but I wasn’t – it just fuelled problems.

I love my ex too, but I am starting to see things a little clearer. I was portrayed by her as an angry man causing chaos in the house, when what was happening was that I was very frustrated with how she treated me & played right into her hands by reacting to her very poor personal communication, with my phone communication. By learning about a problem on my side I think I have taken back a little bit of power, which means she has nothing to show people now to say ‘look at what he sent me’ and while she continues to rage as I collect my Son, I see that effective communication with this woman is very difficult and needs to be managed effectively.

Sorry for the long post, but when I saw the type of texts you were receiving, it did spark off a train of thought and all I can say is they are not healthy as both parties will feel frustrated & hurt.

seenr

He’s now gone completely off his tree. These are the last few messages because I’ve now turned my phone off. I have a sick feeling in my stomach, my heart is racing and it’s my own stupid fault.

Him: “You didn’t love me. No one who loves someone drops them at the hospital very unwell then finishes with them while they are there. Keeps clandestine relationships with other men and involves them in the relationship. Lies to the person over and over again. Finishes with them every week so that they became an emotional wreck. Insights them with a host of psychological problems. That isn’t love. It’s not love I recognize”.

Me: “If you truly believe all of that please stop contacting me. It’s not who I am at all. None of it. It’s extremely hurtful and damaging”.

[Larmoyant]

Thank you for your responses and sharing your experiences. I kept coming back and reading them today and I'm now feeling so much stronger. Things are becoming clearer. Like Wize says reality has really smacked me in the face today. This is a slow, slow journey to acceptance for me. I was like a sitting duck today with him waiting for the perfect shot or should I say shots! OK, lesson learned today.       

Lifewriter, yes, futile hope and it won’t leave me alone! I do keep making the mistake of thinking normal rules apply, but maybe now I won’t. I’ve also experienced those lucid moments when he seems to relate in a normal way, seems to understand until the switch that is. Wonder what happens in their brain when this occurs? Thank you for sharing your experience it really helps because you’ve described exactly what it’s like. And as for “torture by text”  that’s exactly it.

As for mental illness I believe my compassion for this has trapped me a little. I make the mistake of thinking that if I can understand, support and love him it will be enough. It’s becoming increasingly clear that it isn’t. I don’t want to be an emotional punching bag anymore. I feel angry that he thinks this is ok.

The info you provided about abusive men is useful for me. My therapist says he most definitely exhibits ASPD/NPD, and is dangerous. Maybe I need to start trusting this more. It gets confusing for me because I’m attached and have seen his ‘good’ side. I’ll keep reading. The book you recommended reflects my experience and is eye opening.

You have also said something that has made me sigh with relief and stopped some of the anxiety. I’ve been focusing on going NC and have been dismayed and annoyed with myself that I can’t seem to be able to do it. I’ll stick with LC for now. It's the only way I can deal with the pain of it all right now.

seenr, I agree, I’ve no doubt he wanted me to feel pain. He seems to like hurting me and I’m not delusional. I could write a book about the times he’s hurt me and seemed to get some sort of satisfaction out of it. He has ASPD traits and I suppose this reflects those.

Your ex sounds particularly manipulative and controlling. Her being careful suggests to me that she knows exactly what she is doing and that it is intentional, the same as my ex. I get confused by this particularly when I read that their rages, manipulations, etc arise as a protective defense of some sort, not as malicious intent to harm. I’m very confused by this and it effects how I view him.

As for face to face communication. For me that was always worse. He hardly ever let me get a word in and I can talk a lot. He wouldn’t listen either and the conversation would go around and around. Nothing ever resolved.

I’m glad you are seeing things a little clearer. It helps me also to learn more and as I’m doing so I feel stronger too. This has only really started to happen since I’ve stayed away from him. I truly feel safer now and him not knowing where I am is really helping with the fear. It’s like I’m gradually taking my power back.

WoundedPheonix, apparently he called me a narcissist because I’d called him one before which is actually true. Not nice, but I was very angry and to me he displays many NPD traits. I read that we all have narcissism to some degree, that it’s healthy, but I hope I’m not a narcissist. I must admit to being quite codependent though. I definitely have self-esteem issues, some stemming from FOO which I’m working through in therapy and I suppose he may have reopened this old wound in some way. He’s certainly caused new ones. 

I'm coming down with a cold or something right now, but right this moment I'm feeling ok. Coping with detaching and today I felt like a penny has dropped or a light went on in my head or something. Healthy communication with him is just not going to happen. Thank you BPDf. I am grateful 

[Lifewriter16]

Sending you some love. You are getting there. It takes as long as it takes.

Lifewriter

[Wize]

As for mental illness I believe my compassion for this has trapped me a little. I make the mistake of thinking that if I can understand, support and love him it will be enough. It’s becoming increasingly clear that it isn’t. I don’t want to be an emotional punching bag anymore. I feel angry that he thinks this is ok.

The info you provided about abusive men is useful for me. My therapist says he most definitely exhibits ASPD/NPD, and is dangerous. Maybe I need to start trusting this more. It gets confusing for me because I’m attached and have seen his ‘good’ side.

There's sort of this catch-22 with love.  Love is amazing.  The very nature of love allows us to persevere in the face of adversity and hardships. Love is that bond that overrides fear and doubt and instead gives us hope for something better.  We trust love because it really does work.

However, love can also make us hurt when it's rejected by the object(person) of our love. And that pain is really the worst kind of pain.  We can love someone in the face of terrible abuse because the very nature of love endures and abides and holds up under immense pressure. 

But we have to allow a little wisdom to enter the picture and realize that our love is very specific to each of us.  The love we give is unique to who we are.  So when you give your love to someone and they don't receive it or just flat out reject it, we need to walk away.  We can't continue to throw our pearls to the swine.  Love tends to be the most important thing to us, I know it is for me.  So I'm not going to waste my time with someone who doesn't want my love.  And something that a codependent like me has to remember; I need and deserve love too. 

[WishIKnew82]

I wish you the best. This is so shocking to read. Just the best to you. And for once I am glad I haven't heard a damn thing from my ex since he started his ST. This response you got would probably be what he has up his sleeve and I am way too exhausted to build myself up again after finally being a bit better.


I for one just can't believe how similar some of our stories are. The hospital thing happened is almost identical. Scary.

[Larmoyant]

Love tends to be the most important thing to us, I know it is for me. So I'm not going to waste my time with someone who doesn't want my love.  And something that a codependent like me has to remember; I need and deserve love too. 

Hi Wize, it is for me too, but I've started to question that now. I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to love someone again after this. I'd be too scared, but maybe in time I'll see things differently.

[Larmoyant]

I wish you the best. This is so shocking to read. Just the best to you. And for once I am glad I haven't heard a damn thing from my ex since he started his ST. This response you got would probably be what he has up his sleeve and I am way too exhausted to build myself up again after finally being a bit better.


I for one just can't believe how similar some of our stories are. The hospital thing happened is almost identical. Scary.

Thanks Wish, the very best to you too. I relate to your feeling of exhaustion. Sometimes it feels like such a huge battle to keep your head above water.