The reason I don't let go

[HoneyB33]

I came to this board to talk about an issue, or a trigger that I have been having.

I think the hardest thing in "letting go" for me is feeling insecure about the accusations. And in some backwards way, this person really dismantled my sense of self worth, so I've been ruminating over things, trying to free myself from them. I still feel really insecure about the accusations. I'm slowly getting more and more a grasp that none of them are true, but that is still my trigger.

I have this weird trigger where someone will be talking about basically "going forth and healing and finding joy" and instead of that being this encouragement to me, it reminds me of my ex's discard of me. She turned the whole situation into how she was only doing what was "best for her", and treated me like I was the abusive BPD one, and she was just trying to seek out healing and prosperity.

So now it makes me feel that sting of pain. Everything hopeful and encouraging, I have to wrestle with to take for myself.

So I'm really still struggling with getting myself free of these accusations and all of this stuff that was put on me. How do I fight this?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey HoneyB33, I understand what you are saying; at one time my BPDxW rocked my confidence and self-esteem with her (false) accusations of wrongdoing on my part.  I suggest that you start from the premise that those suffering from BPD will shift blame to the Non in order to avoid taking responsibility for their own issues.  If they can foist blame on someone else, then it is off their plate.  Due to their black and white, all-or-nothing thinking, they are unable to accept that they have flaws, too.  Instead, they argue forcefully that it's the Non who is flawed and are often quite convincing in their assessment of guilt, which seems to be what happened to you.  Once you see this pattern, however, it's a lot easier to let the accusations roll off your back.  Another way to look at it is that their accusations are largely irrelevant, because they are not grounded in reality.  Anyway, that's how I view this issue.

LuckyJim

P.S.  I appreciate your kind compliment in another post.  If you would like to read more about some of the ideas that I espouse, I recommend a really great little paperback called Project: Personal Freedom, by Kingsley Gallup.

[fromheeltoheal]

How do I fight this?

By not fighting it.  By settling into yourself and centering.

You mention "accusations that were put on me", and they were put on you, by someone in emotional pain who needed to feel better, so she offloaded a bunch of her stuff on you, ridding her of it, and you took it.  You had a choice, you didn't have to take it, although it probably didn't feel like it at the time because you were emotionally involved with someone with a mental illness.  So now, when someone offers some enthusiasm about growth and healing, it's a trigger because you accepted the label as the roadblock to her growth; only you know if that was true, but my guess is it was borderline crap.

So the key now is to settle into yourself, learn to self-validate again, or for the first time.  When we feel like we don't have a core or a rudder, when we're floating, we can become dependent on external validation, and can be crushed by invalidation.  External validation can be the icing on the cake when we're already self-validating, a good thing, but the self-validation needs to be there first.  So you know what's right, what was right then, celebrate knowing that, and when we live in accordance with our values, live from our values, live our values, our self-esteem will skyrocket, we can settle into that, and validate it; we're doing well, we know we're doing well, we give ourselves credit for doing well, and that will show up all over, people will notice, and then the icing-on-the-cake external validation.

And an upside, when we do that for a while, is we become less and less willing to ever let someone question that again, and the folks who try can be removed early before we let them get in too deep.  Any of that make sense HB?

[HoneyB33]

Thanks LuckyJim and fromheeltoheal for your replies.

Yeah, a huge part of what happened was this person really made me feel guilty about things that happened. I got to such an extreme emotional level with this person (anger), and she quickly made me feel horrible about myself because of it. So that basically just made it worse and worse. Ironically the reason I got so angry was because of the false accusations she put on me, and still here I am fighting off those accusations that are put on me for being angry and trying to defend myself. I am really struggling to realize that these accusations of wrongdoing are truly just false. That yes I was angry, but it's a completely different picture than the one she says. I appreciate your words LuckyJim, because it's definitely where I am trying to get to. All of this stuff is really pushing me to believe in myself. Not just theoretically, but a definite action of doing so.

Yeah, FHTH I do know that choice that I made there. I guess I've never made such a huge mistake. There were so many accusations, I was in so much pain, and lost. And honestly, I had had SO many accusations thrown at me by so many PD ppl (didn't see it clearly then), but I just cracked. Because I thought, "How can I just keep denying what these ppl say? Isn't that what abusive/mentally ill people do?... .Even my own mother says these things abut me." So I gave in, and it is by far the worst choice I have ever made. I slid down a mountain, I let all of this in, and now I am trying to get back up and out. And I think a huge part is figuring out what to do with myself since I made such a huge mistake. Maybe I just really need to work on forgiving myself for it. But yes, a lot of it is just getting back to believing in myself.

[fromheeltoheal]

So I gave in, and it is by far the worst choice I have ever made. I slid down a mountain, I let all of this in, and now I am trying to get back up and out.

The good thing about that metaphor is when you're at the bottom, in the valley, the only way to go is up yes?  And what if there was valuable information down in that valley, information you needed to enter the next phase of your life, the most awesome phase yet, and not only that, climbing out is going to get you super fit, so you'll reach the top in killer shape and much wiser yes?

And I think a huge part is figuring out what to do with myself since I made such a huge mistake.

Learn the lessons and move forward.  What choice is there really?  Well, you could stay stuck and focusing on the 'huge mistake', or was it?  What if you labelled it a massive learning opportunity, and then started to shift the focus from the past to the future, as you begin creating the life of your dreams?  You could do that, and these things happen at their own pace, too slow and we'll stay stuck, too fast and we can not fully process everything, so what's the right pace?  Fully processing everything AND moving forward.  It's a brand new day!

[gotbushels]

I have this weird trigger where someone will be talking about basically "going forth and healing and finding joy" and instead of that being this encouragement to me, it reminds me of my ex's discard of me. She turned the whole situation into how she was only doing what was "best for her", and treated me like I was the abusive BPD one, and she was just trying to seek out healing and prosperity.

I can somewhat relate to this. My experience was something like this. This somewhat triggered me too. Her joy bugged me. She's a cheater. So... .someone can just cheat on me, "dump me", and "learn", and date, and have a better relationship? My ex would be very, very fast at "moving on" to the point where my relationship was nothing more than a learning point for her to "do better" at the "next one".

This all mentally obstructed me. I thought: if I went forward, it's like being her--I don't want to be her--if I do, won't that make me a BP?

1. "Won't that make me a BP?" ← Inaccurate.

2. "If I went forward, it's like being her." ← Not really. Consider that's black and white thinking. Consider logic, there are 9 criteria for BPD. While it's tempting to slot that into criteria 2, I'd say it's very, very, very far from the definition.* Furthermore, learning and moving, as a general principle, is one of the healthiest things one can do for oneself.

3. What effect is her behaviour having on me? Most obviously, she's subconsciously stopping me from helping myself, thereby perpetuating her ability to hold on to me, or control me--all in unhealthy ways.

Assessing this, it would be highly beneficial for me to move forward and heal me.

And honestly, I had had SO many accusations thrown at me by so many PD ppl (didn't see it clearly then), but I just cracked. Because I thought, "How can I just keep denying what these ppl say? Isn't that what abusive/mentally ill people do?... .Even my own mother says these things abut me." So I gave in, and it is by far the worst choice I have ever made.

Yes, it seems feeling accused is confusing. Yes, not seeming to have a choice of action makes the confusion worse. Yes, you're not defined by how you react to a series of accusations.

So I'm really still struggling with getting myself free of these accusations and all of this stuff that was put on me. How do I fight this?

Slowly. Kindly. Gracefully. We are encouraged to not be judgmental to our partners. Why not operate like this when we are considering our own things?

All of this stuff is really pushing me to believe in myself. Not just theoretically, but a definite action of doing so.

Maybe I just really need to work on forgiving myself for it. But yes, a lot of it is just getting back to believing in myself.

Excellent. I think you're already on the right path. One little bit from time to time is sometimes all you need HoneyB33.





* Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. 2000 ed.

[HoneyB33]

Exactly gotbushels. So this person can do literally HORRIBLE things to me, and they get to skip off all hunky dory? Seriously? It totally crashes your sense of justice and right or wrong. It's horrible. What these people do to you is beyond horrible. They completely trash your sense of self, and go on like THEY are better off for it.

"What effect is her behaviour having on me? Most obviously, she's subconsciously stopping me from helping myself, thereby perpetuating her ability to hold on to me, or control me--all in unhealthy ways." This is also what I have realized, but man it's never been so hard to do what is natural--take care of myself. I think a huge part of me is scared. I still have these fears in me that I'll be just minding my own business, and BAM this trauma will come ripping my life apart. It feels hard to focus on myself because it feels like "when my back was turned, I was attacked", so I'm hyper active, and looking around.

" Yes, you're not defined by how you react to a series of accusations. " Thank you for this reminder.

Thank you for all of your encouraging words!

[Meili]

I still have these fears in me that I'll be just minding my own business, and BAM this trauma will come ripping my life apart. It feels hard to focus on myself because it feels like "when my back was turned, I was attacked", so I'm hyper active, and looking around.

Those are some very familiar fears for me HoneyB33. In fact, I am still experiencing those daily. I know that isn't much help, but I figured it was better than my normal "focus on you." 

But, I will say that I think that my questioning what got me into this position and figuring out ways to change it so that it doesn't happen again seems to be making them less intense and happen less often. 

[HoneyB33]

Haha, well it makes it normal at least.

It definitely makes it feel really hard to be confident in just focusing on myself. Very annoying. But yes, I too am trying to focus on what I can learn here. I know for one, that I won't compromise myself in the same way again.

[Meili]

I know for one, that I won't compromise myself in the same way again.

And, as GB said, that's a step in the right direction!

Please be compassionate with yourself also. We have all done things in the "name of love" that have, looking back, made us shake our heads. Without self-compassion, when we look at what we did, how we compromised ourselves, and the choices that we made; we can become frustrated, angry, and hardened.

When I started my journey, I would initially get very frustrated and angry about the way that my x treated me. There were a lot of "how could she?" comments that went through my head. I was so focused on what she was doing and had done.

Later, those comments became "how could I allow something like that?" I was then frustrated and angry at myself for allowing myself to be treated as I was.

Then I would find out that she is out and about having a great time doing the things that we used to do together and continuing with the plans that we had; now doing them with another/others. That cut deeply and the pendulum would swing back again. I would take her actions as a reflection about me.

I would calm myself by remembering that her actions were not about me. I would depersonalize all of it. When I accepted that her part of the r/s was never about me, it started to become easier to swing the pendulum back.

My pendulum has swung from one extreme to the other and has started to settle in the center. Sure, every time I hit a bump, it swings again, but the inertia is less so that it doesn't swing as far now.

Do you think that something like that might be going on with you?

[HoneyB33]

Yep, I can totally identify that thought process. To a T. I had felt stuck many times between what this person had done to me, and then getting a little further and turning around and being mad at myself for what I had let happen to myself. I definitely think I need to see more compassion for myself, that I was put into an impossible situation, by someone who abused me. There wasn't an "answer" at the time. Now I do have answers, and know at a much deeper level the choices that I DO have.

But yes, that was exactly what happened to me. Those things really swing into my head when I hear about her off "happy" and living the exact dreams that I had shared with her (aka, MY dreams). But you too totally nailed it on the head,  "I would take her actions as a reflection about me." I think seeing her do exactly what you described, and running off with everything I had shared with her; my dreams, my heart for people, and even my identity in ways--it definitely cut very deep. But that is definitely where I have wrestled the most--not taking it personally. And realizing that this isn't normal, but a reflection upon her disorder.

That is really where I am working the most at. Realizing that none of the accusations or rejection are actually realistic to ME, but about her. I think a large part is realizing what was about me, and was true. And knowing what isn't.

Thank you for the reminder of self-compassion, and to not take things personally.

[gotbushels]

But yes, that was exactly what happened to me. Those things really swing into my head when I hear about her off "happy" and living the exact dreams that I had shared with her (aka, MY dreams). But you too totally nailed it on the head,  "I would take her actions as a reflection about me." I think seeing her do exactly what you described, and running off with everything I had shared with her; my dreams, my heart for people, and even my identity in ways--it definitely cut very deep. But that is definitely where I have wrestled the most--not taking it personally. And realizing that this isn't normal, but a reflection upon her disorder.

Yes, other members have seen this happen to them too, with a variety of what the ex "copies" from them. Consider that her "running off" with them may not be accurate 

That is really where I am working the most at. Realizing that none of the accusations or rejection are actually realistic to ME, but about her. I think a large part is realizing what was about me, and was true. And knowing what isn't.

I connect with this. This was difficult for me to do too. Sometimes, this takes guts. To separate my feelings, to separate my thoughts, to see what was "my stuff" in terms of behaviours. Knowing what I can rely on what what I can't.

Now I do have answers, and know at a much deeper level the choices that I DO have.

I think seeing her do exactly what you described, and running off with everything I had shared with her; my dreams, my heart for people, and even my identity in ways--it definitely cut very deep.

Based on the "very deep" area of these things and them being at these "deeper levels", it makes sense that deeper things take more time to work at or heal. It takes time. Be patient and hang in there.

[Meili]

For whatever it's worth HoneyB33, the things that you wrote in your last post echo much of my own experiences and thoughts.

You are doing very well on your journey. I really have nothing to add, save and except empathy and encouragement.

[HoneyB33]

"Yes, other members have seen this happen to them too, with a variety of what the ex "copies" from them. Consider that her "running off" with them may not be accurate." What do you mean by this gotbushels?

And yes it does take courage. I think a lot of the courage I have had to fine is in knowing my worth, in knowing what was even good and the worthiness that I do have as a partner, in spite of what this person has said. But then also having the courage to take off things that aren't actually about me, and realize that it is her. I think when we look at courage, we can really look at it as taking responsibility (which I still do), but I think we can very much miss where our responsibility is to NOT take on things. And that has been the courage I have had to fight for the most.

[gotbushels]

And yes it does take courage. I think a lot of the courage I have had to fine is in knowing my worth, in knowing what was even good and the worthiness that I do have as a partner, in spite of what this person has said. But then also having the courage to take off things that aren't actually about me, and realize that it is her. I think when we look at courage, we can really look at it as taking responsibility (which I still do), but I think we can very much miss where our responsibility is to NOT take on things. And that has been the courage I have had to fight for the most.

Wow. Good insight. It does take courage to look at the delineation here. What's yours--your responsibilities, your worth, what can't affect it. Thank you for sharing:) It seems to me that doing this is allowing you to get clarity on the almost natural boundaries between persons. Notice how interactions may have blurred those lines. I think knowing the delineation leads to a stronger sense of self. Nice one HoneyB33.

You mentioned a place of concentrated courage. Why do you very much miss the responsibility that doesn't "belong" to you... .? Where does that come from? Is there possibly any fringe of excess sense of responsibility? I really don't know if there is--just curious.

"Yes, other members have seen this happen to them too, with a variety of what the ex "copies" from them. Consider that her "running off" with them may not be accurate." What do you mean by this gotbushels?

Sure. pwBPD sometimes copy, mimic, "take-on" qualities from their SOs. It's sort of an extreme example of what I think is a "normal" relationship. People take on / borrow / copy some mannerisms of people they are around a lot. Like when a bf calls a gf "babe" out of personality, then the gf notices that she started calling him "babe" etc. In the BP's case, they can be seen to go way too far with this. E.g. just like you said:

with everything I had shared with her; my dreams, my heart for people, and even my identity in ways--it definitely cut very deep.

Here's a good way to look at it:

(... .)
Can I deduct from this that , when BPD is borrowing my self , or mirroring my I , (becomes me) , ... .that the BPD is developing a sense of self by her own ?

No it is a delusion, or being like an "air guitarist" if you like. Living a dream/fantasy, but not really any substance to it, so it never really takes on a life of its own and fizzles out once the limitation and/or novelty is exhausted.

A true self may be inspired by someone else or a shared experience. A seed may be planted if you like but it then takes on a self sufficient life of its own. They will enjoy whatever interest/pursuit it is in question because they own it and direct it, rather than because they want to be on your team. A true self will always diverge in some way from the original source, it will not remain a clone (ie mirror)

Now, think about how it applies to you. Can people physically "take" other peoples' dreams, heart for people, and identity? Can they take it and run off? 

[HoneyB33]

Thanks for your in-depth reply gotbushels.

It's taken me a lot of courage to get out from a lot of stuff that was put on me. I often refer to things with my ex as the straw that broke the camels back. I was in so many situations with friends, family, and then this person that had PD's, that I was totally lost. When my ex threw all this stuff on me, I took it on. Something I had never done before. Because I was desperate to make it end, and to understand. What caused me to fall there was that to me I thought about how it looked. All these people telling me I was the problem, mentally ill, paranoid, selfish, arrogant, etc--that to me it felt like "how could I not?" How could I keep "denying" what other people said to me. Problem was, I did need to take responsibility. Responsibility for myself to LEAVE. But the other way things were painted, it was trying to force me to take responsibility for things I hadn't done. But I guess when I boil down everything, the reason I "fell" into all the lies was because of how it could look to other people.

The real issue was that I needed to believe in myself, but in the abuse, what it said was the issue was that I "believed in myself TO much". What was really the issue was that I needed to leave these abusive relationships, but what the abuse said was that I deserved what happened to me because I was so "selfish". What I really needed to do was take care of and focus on myself, but what the abuse said was that I was to self focused.

So in taking responsibility, it became so confusing. And I guess I gave in to what other people might see things as. I broke under the pressure of so many people telling me that I "looked" one way. So after SO many people did this, I finally gave in to believing these things about myself, and it's taken me a long time to take these things back off.

Thanks for sharing that quote from that thread. I went and read it as well. It's so strange to have been so lost in these confusions, and to hear people talking about the same things (finally!) I've totally been concerned about this person actually being able to have what I have, which has caused me to even further from my true self, because I have been so pissed that someone could do that (I know, real rational). I've known this person has been copying me, but it still totally makes me so angry at the thought of it. That was one of the most exhausting things about dating this person, them trying to make me constantly carry their sense of "self" for them, I.e MAKE it for them.

[Lucky Jim]

That was one of the most exhausting things about dating this person, them trying to make me constantly carry their sense of "self" for them, I.e MAKE it for them.

I think that's true, HoneyB33.  Those w/BPD want us to carry their pain, which is exhausting.  Of course, we Nons don't have to take on that burden, yet often we do, out of a misguided sense of loyalty and due to our own codependent tendencies.  The weight grows, as you note, until the final straw that breaks the camel's back.  As a general rule, I submit that it's unhealthy to carry anyone else's pain.  Took me a long time to understand.

LuckyJim

[HoneyB33]

That was one of the most exhausting things about dating this person, them trying to make me constantly carry their sense of "self" for them, I.e MAKE it for them.

I think that's true, HoneyB33.  Those w/BPD want us to carry their pain, which is exhausting.  Of course, we Nons don't have to take on that burden, yet often we do, out of a misguided sense of loyalty and due to our own codependent tendencies.  The weight grows, as you note, until the final straw that breaks the camel's back.  As a general rule, I submit that it's unhealthy to carry anyone else's pain.  Took me a long time to understand.

LuckyJim

I guess for me, I didn't realize that in a lot of ways, but in some ways I did. But I think the biggest issue is that I didn't know what to do about it. I tried endlessly to get my ex to take on responsibility for herself (which is me just taking on trying to get her to take on responsibility). I guess for me, it just felt so unfair that because this person refused to do what was right, I had to suffer either being drained, or leaving and being alone. So I endlessly tried to repair the situation. And when I refused to carry this person's pain for them, that's when they discarded me, and forced on me all these things that I wasn't a good partner, that I was self-absorbed, overbearing, abusive, etc. The more I tried to stand up for myself, the more they tore me down.

[Lucky Jim]

And when I refused to carry this person's pain for them, that's when they discarded me, and forced on me all these things that I wasn't a good partner, that I was self-absorbed, overbearing, abusive, etc. The more I tried to stand up for myself, the more they tore me down.

Agree, HoneyB.  That's part of the paradox of BPD.  On some level, those w/BPD can't handle healthy behavior, such as standing up for oneself.  Instead, they will goad and bully in order to bring you down to their level.  LJ

[Mars22]

I came to this board to talk about an issue, or a trigger that I have been having.

I think the hardest thing in "letting go" for me is feeling insecure about the accusations. And in some backwards way, this person really dismantled my sense of self worth, so I've been ruminating over things, trying to free myself from them. I still feel really insecure about the accusations. I'm slowly getting more and more a grasp that none of them are true, but that is still my trigger.

I have this weird trigger where someone will be talking about basically "going forth and healing and finding joy" and instead of that being this encouragement to me, it reminds me of my ex's discard of me. She turned the whole situation into how she was only doing what was "best for her", and treated me like I was the abusive BPD one, and she was just trying to seek out healing and prosperity.

So now it makes me feel that sting of pain. Everything hopeful and encouraging, I have to wrestle with to take for myself.

So I'm really still struggling with getting myself free of these accusations and all of this stuff that was put on me. How do I fight this?

So much of this thread resonates with me and I feel I'm at the very same spot as you right now HoneyB33.

I think back to a time before I met my pwBPD. That person I was then was very light and kind, was engaged and happy. My eyes smiled when i spoke and I had a great zest for life for people and the world around me. That's who my pwBPD traits was attracted too. And thats the person that I knew myself to be. I was unwavering in the sense that, I knew myself and boundaries; was confident. I knew that all my intentions came from a place of acceptance of myself and for people and a willingness to find commonality with the world. AND, this was something I continued to believe and initiate throughout the entire r/s. It wasn't intentional or contrived. — It was natural.

UNTIL.

Until the cracks started to show. I believe now that she was jealous of my life and my happiness because she was in so much pain and I had it easy in comparison. She became disdainfully wicked. But, i ignored it and tried to be the better person the whole time and the way I know myself to be. All of it seems standard BPD fair now that I have educated myself about it.  The accusations, the lack of trust, the sadness & despair, push/pull, her blame and insecurities and the rollercoasting. Now that the ride has stopped, I found myself dizzy and disoriented from it all. I'm slowing finding glimpses of who I was before the ride. And its getting easier each day. I feel I'm sifting through my mind looking for all the good bits. The bits I know that are me compared to what she saw. That was always an issue. Who she saw was not person I knew and KNOW myself to be. Just haven a hard time believing that right now.

Truth for me now is, my biggest struggle is taking responsibility for how I acted or REACTED. Like you, and probably most 'healthy' people, you were patient initially , withstood, reasoned  and rationalized the arguments. But, they got more intense and they were always then diverted and unresolved. THEN, they would compounded into other disagreements. The pressure from all the negativity around the arguments; fights and disagreements got so high and heavy that eventually, your emotions collapsed underneath the stress and weight. Afterall were human. We all have our 'line' so to speak. I'm sure, like me you endured so much during that time. And, not knowing about the disorder we did and said the wrong things under the pressure... .feeling like we were being horribly provoked each time and 'issue' would arise. Thats not your fault. Reality being, even if we did know, nothing would have changed for very long. And thats where I struggle. The what if's, or... .the "Bargaining'.

Meile mentions a Pendulum. And i believe thats where I'm feeling the most conflicted after 4 months. Determining now, on one side, how I can now find compassion for her knowing what I know now vs. Wishing I had compassion for when I was with her.

I'm seeing glimpses that part of letting go, finding acceptance is to be a better person then 'who I was' before. Somebody who is still capable of great empathy. Sadly, NOBODY had ever driven to 'my line' so, thats what I'm trying accept and understanding about myself now. We feel pain now for the loss and we will heal. They however, have a lifetime of pain and loss and unless they find help, will continue to repeat these unhealthy patterns. I always had empathy for her until I felt I was attacked. She is still that same person on the inside.

We are the ones that are given now the opportunity to evolve.

[gotbushels]

Thanks for your in-depth reply gotbushels.

It's taken me a lot of courage to get out from a lot of stuff that was put on me. I often refer to things with my ex as the straw that broke the camels back. I was in so many situations with friends, family, and then this person that had PD's, that I was totally lost. When my ex threw all this stuff on me, I took it on. Something I had never done before. Because I was desperate to make it end, and to understand. What caused me to fall there was that to me I thought about how it looked. All these people telling me I was the problem, mentally ill, paranoid, selfish, arrogant, etc--that to me it felt like "how could I not?" How could I keep "denying" what other people said to me. Problem was, I did need to take responsibility. Responsibility for myself to LEAVE. But the other way things were painted, it was trying to force me to take responsibility for things I hadn't done. But I guess when I boil down everything, the reason I "fell" into all the lies was because of how it could look to other people.

The real issue was that I needed to believe in myself, but in the abuse, what it said was the issue was that I "believed in myself TO much". What was really the issue was that I needed to leave these abusive relationships, but what the abuse said was that I deserved what happened to me because I was so "selfish". What I really needed to do was take care of and focus on myself, but what the abuse said was that I was to self focused.

So in taking responsibility, it became so confusing. And I guess I gave in to what other people might see things as. I broke under the pressure of so many people telling me that I "looked" one way. So after SO many people did this, I finally gave in to believing these things about myself, and it's taken me a long time to take these things back off.

I see HoneyB33 

It seems that there is a lot of uncertainty about assigning responsibility in your mind. That seems to be causing some confusion to you. It might be helpful to you to set out specific events. For these events, see the behaviours that you were and weren't responsible for.

An example of my own might help here.

Example:
I say something, my ex says something, I JADE, the conversation escalates, she goes to drink and attempt to have men solicit her for sexual things, I sulk and chase her for a few hours.

I can assign responsibilities like this:
Me ♂
Her ♀

I say something (♂, my ex says something (♀, I JADE (♂, she responds (♀, the conversation escalates in this manner (♂,♀, she goes to drink and attempt to have men solicit her for sexual things (mainly ♀, I sulk and chase her for a few hours (mainly ♂.

You can see then it makes it easier to see the things in terms of personal control. While doing this, it might be helpful to you to keep clear in your mind to separate out your judgments, your ex's judgments, and other peoples' judgments while doing this. There seems to be a lot of that going on in your post.

The benefit of doing this is that it makes it very clear about what you can be responsible for without having to rely on other people. I encourage you to do this. Just start with one event simple but key event so it's easy to do. From there, it makes it easier to do your own inventory without having things from the relationship stuck to your development like the string cheese from a mac 'n cheese.

[HoneyB33]

Agree, HoneyB.  That's part of the paradox of BPD.  On some level, those w/BPD can't handle healthy behavior, such as standing up for oneself.  Instead, they will goad and bully in order to bring you down to their level.  LJ

That is very much what happened for me. As my current girlfriend said the other day, "These people don't face problems and deal with them. They just make another problem to "communicate" that they're upset." It's literally being dragged down if you don't completely let go. Very hard. The more you fight to care for someone, the more you drown. So backwards. I was also thinking about how my ex would get mad when I would stand up for myself. I'm having to really work on that trigger in myself right now, because whenever I did, as you can imagine, my ex's "feelings changed" for me. So messed up.

Mars22 I really resonate with you on this: "I think back to a time before I met my pwBPD. That person I was then was very light and kind, was engaged and happy. My eyes smiled when i spoke and I had a great zest for life for people and the world around me. That's who my pwBPD traits was attracted too. And thats the person that I knew myself to be. I was unwavering in the sense that, I knew myself and boundaries; was confident. I knew that all my intentions came from a place of acceptance of myself and for people and a willingness to find commonality with the world. AND, this was something I continued to believe and initiate throughout the entire r/s. It wasn't intentional or contrived. — It was natural." It's so agonizing trying to get back to myself. I'm struggling the most in all of this because of what this person did to me, and how much I lost of myself. And that's very much the same for me--my ex was very jealous of me. But the thing is, all I ever did was show her how to have exactly what I had. And she refused to lift one finger to help herself, so she tried to rip me into a million pieces.

"And its getting easier each day. I feel I'm sifting through my mind looking for all the good bits. The bits I know that are me compared to what she saw. That was always an issue. Who she saw was not person I knew and KNOW myself to be. Just haven a hard time believing that right now." This is exactly where I am at right now. Getting back to what I know of myself to be true. And in a weird way, getting back to knowing what I knew of her to be true. She did this whole, "My life is so much better now, blah blah blah" that it made me question if in fact she really was better off or doing good, or happy. And I think it's been a two part battle I have been in. 1. Getting back to know the truth and value of myself and 2. Getting back to knowing the truth and value of her. Because I've realized, in a way this is what keeps us tied in. If we think that somehow after everything we put into these ppl they've robbed us blind and are off "happy" or have this value in them, then we not only feel robbed, but then the salt is rubbed into the wound. The truth of being a valuable person, and of being someone with integrity feels like it goes completely out the window. And the truth of the world, the balance of right and wrong is completely gone to us. So I think it's hugely important that we realize both. That this person hasn't "changed" and there isn't something we missed. And we also DO know the truth of ourselves, and our value.

gotbushels thanks for your reply and your simplicity you are applying to things. I think a huge part of things for me has been that I have felt this obligation to take on responsibility that isn't mine. Basically, the only thing I did "wrong" was staying in this relationship when I wanted to leave. For internalizing how I felt, rather than recognizing I was unhappy for a reason, and for not trusting my gut. I feel this obligation to feel "wrong" for how I reacted to this person, but I don't feel bad. I know that I wouldn't react like that unless I was in an extremely desperate situation, and that's how I felt. NOW I know that I can leave when I feel like that, but at the time I was treading water and drowning. I've struggled with responsibility because I feel like I "should" feel wrong about something, but I don't, because I didn't do anything wrong. The only things I did wrong, were against myself, not her. And I've constantly felt pushed down for not taking on some "fault" out of this, but I really didn't do anything wrong. And trying to find something I did wrong has made me really ill, and pushed me more into her abuse of me. What I've needed with responsibility is to recognize that I was treated horribly, for no reason other than trying to do what was right for myself. Sure, there are all the reason this disorder has, but that's no excuse. And I've felt this endless pressure on me to feel even more "pity" for my abuser, and I think that's disgusting. I may not have handled things the best, but I also didn't know at the time. And today I'm proud that I stood up for myself and fought back against someone who was abusing me.

[Mars22]

This is a very power realization for me HoneyB33.


" ... .1. Getting back to know the truth and value of myself and 2. Getting back to knowing the truth and value of her. Because I've realized, in a way this is what keeps us tied in. If we think that somehow after everything we put into these ppl they've robbed us blind and are off "happy" or have this value in them, then we not only feel robbed, but then the salt is rubbed into the wound. The truth of being a valuable person, and of being someone with integrity feels like it goes completely out the window. And the truth of the world, the balance of right and wrong is completely gone to us. So I think it's hugely important that we realize both. That this person hasn't "changed" and there isn't something we missed. And we also DO know the truth of ourselves, and our value.

Very well put HoneyB33. It's a poignant perception for sure ... .and for me it's that I do know it logically , I just want to FULLY engage in starting to believing it. I'm having a hard time putting the reigns on my imagination.

[HoneyB33]

Ugh, I so know what you mean Mars22. It is quite the struggle. I never would have imagined that I could be in something like this. But I think being here and learning about BPD has really helped with that.