Self-doubt, in need of clarity

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hello there 

I am living in a small city, in a small country, feeling rather small right now.

I have 3 kids - aged 22, 19, 15 and 1 grandchild 22 months (whom I am raising) - my significant other took his life 10 years ago yesterday.  I have been raising my children on my own since then.

My 19 year old (I believe has BPD - she ticks every box that can be ticked).  I struggled with her from when she was fairly young and with each passing year, the issues and crisis' have increased significantly.  She gave birth to a child in 2014 and shortly after became 'male focussed' again and slowly lost interest in being a mother.  I have been raising her for a year on July 2.

My daughter has not been diagnosed.  We don't appear to have the specialist know how here... .though I am only guessing as I don't know why she has not been diagnosed.  Though even if she had been diagnosed - there is no law stating I would know this anyway as she is an adult now.

The ongoing problems and the very extreme risky behaviour has been taking it's toll on the other 2 kids and myself in the past year or so.  I have attempted to secure help for my daughter but each time I do - the 'helper' e.g. counsellor, doctor, social worker, support worker - somehow 'appears' to 'decide' this is a relationship problem between said daughter and myself.  It is a shame as the help my daughter needs is dismissed and she continues on.

That is in short the situation right now.  Of course I love my daughter, but if I could I would walk away and look after myself for a time - however, the final parenting order states that I must oversee visitation between mother and baby or face prison if I am seen to be preventing it.  To have this order varied would mean that I would have to return to court and I certainly cannot afford that.  So I need to find a way to allow my daughter to see her daughter while making sure that I am not being "pulled" in by her.  She pushes and pulls a lot.  I miss most of it until later on.  Then I become annoyed with myself.  I think that a better understanding of what is going on would be helpful.  Also does anyone else here have an adult child who is good at pulling the wool over professional's eyes - so the parent looks like the one with the problem or is part of the problem?  Even though we actually are not.  Is there a name for this behaviour?

Thank you for your time! 

[Darkbeforedawn]

Hello there 

I am living in a small city, in a small country, feeling rather small right now.

I have 3 kids - aged 22, 19, 15 and 1 grandchild 22 months (whom I am raising) - my significant other took his life 10 years ago yesterday.  I have been raising my children on my own since then.

My 19 year old (I believe has BPD - she ticks every box that can be ticked).  I struggled with her from when she was fairly young and with each passing year, the issues and crisis' have increased significantly.  She gave birth to a child in 2014 and shortly after became 'male focussed' again and slowly lost interest in being a mother.  I have been raising her for a year on July 2.

My daughter has not been diagnosed.  We don't appear to have the specialist know how here... .though I am only guessing as I don't know why she has not been diagnosed.  Though even if she had been diagnosed - there is no law stating I would know this anyway as she is an adult now.

The ongoing problems and the very extreme risky behaviour has been taking it's toll on the other 2 kids and myself in the past year or so.  I have attempted to secure help for my daughter but each time I do - the 'helper' e.g. counsellor, doctor, social worker, support worker - somehow 'appears' to 'decide' this is a relationship problem between said daughter and myself.  It is a shame as the help my daughter needs is dismissed and she continues on.

That is in short the situation right now.  Of course I love my daughter, but if I could I would walk away and look after myself for a time - however, the final parenting order states that I must oversee visitation between mother and baby or face prison if I am seen to be preventing it.  To have this order varied would mean that I would have to return to court and I certainly cannot afford that.  So I need to find a way to allow my daughter to see her daughter while making sure that I am not being "pulled" in by her.  She pushes and pulls a lot.  I miss most of it until later on.  Then I become annoyed with myself.  I think that a better understanding of what is going on would be helpful.  Also does anyone else here have an adult child who is good at pulling the wool over professional's eyes - so the parent looks like the one with the problem or is part of the problem?  Even though we actually are not.  Is there a name for this behaviour?

Thank you for your time! 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[saphirewidow]

So sorry to hear about the loss of your significant other.  I lost my husband in 2011 to suicide and was left to raise our children.  He struggled with BPD himself and created alot of drama for our kids before his death.  Now I have a 16 y/o son in a residential treatment center for emerging BPD traits and severe anxiety and depression and suicide attempts.  I wish I could give you magic advice to make everything better.  It sounds like you are in a really hard situation caring for you grandbaby and being responsible for overseeing visitation. Hang in there.  Live each day to the best of your abilities and find things to love and enjoy to help you get through the hard times with your daughter.   

[Naughty Nibbler]

Darkbeforedawn  

Welcome to The Family!

Sorry for the loss of your husband.  You sound like a strong woman and you have a lot to deal with.

People with BPD (pwBPD) don't necessarily admit all their issues to a therapist or doctor.  Some people can be high-functioning and not have suicidal tendencies, self harming or obvious substance abuse issues.  Here is a link to the DMS BPD Definition https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder and another overview IS IT BPD?  Perhaps you can look it over and see which traits fit your daughter.  Have you read any books on BPD?  I found the "Stop Walking of Egg Shells" book enlightening.  I actually listened to the audio book and then bought a Kindle version of a workbook to use.  One way to approach the situation, without a diagnosis, is to just proceed as if she had a BPD diagnosis and learn the communication skills and techniques that relate to BPD

If you look to the right on the page, you will find several links to helpful information. The communication information and tactics can be helpful in general, even with dealing with people without BPD.  

We can't change others, but we can set BOUNDARIES and change the way we interact and react to people in our lives. FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt is one of the first articles you should read.

Let us know how we can continue to help you.  Take the articles/tutorials a little at a time, and don't get overwhelmed.  If you are like me, you will want to read them multiple times to absorb as much as you can.

[Gorges]

YES.  I had the exact same problem.  We went through a string of therapists psychiatrists over the years.  The final psychiatrist and therapist (who I think highly of... ) both felt it was a relationship problem between my daughter and myself more than any particular diagnosis.  I think the problem is that these type of kids can contribute to bad relationships... .

My husband was very uninvolved in any kind of discipline of my daughter.  My daughter is very smart and verbal so can twist things to make them sound reasonable.  I on the other hand would be frustrated by her behavior and the lack of improvement that I saw over the years with the therapists.  The therapists did see that my daughter didn't seem to want to get better and improve and eventually saw that she lacked empathy and was difficult.  Once she turned 18, I decided that she can make the therapist appointments and seek out her own help should she want.  I was done with taking her to therapists so she can complain about everyone and not change.   We have actually seen an improvement in her behavior... .She is very interested now in trying to explain herself and others through astrology... .whatever works!

Anyway, you are not alone in this problem.  However, if  you read enough of the posts here you will see that even with diagnosis and medications these kids just really struggle.  I think they really struggle until they want to get better and take responsibility for their problems.

Since my daughter is now 18, graduated high school and heading off to college, I feel that I have done my job and can step back.  I have asked my husband to take over in all matters with her since he and I argued so much about raising her.

He is now getting more of a beating than me since he is more involved.

I also have the same problem where she picks at me and it leads to an argument.  However, I need to take responsibility for responding and in some ways I might find ways to "pick" in an attempt to teach her.  One thing that is helpful is mindfulness meditation.  It slows your brain down and lets you observe the situation so you can see what is unfolding.  Not that I am very good at this... .

I also really found the book that this website recommends "loving someone with BPD" very helpful if you have an adult child.  I didn't completely appreciate all the chapters on validation.  They were good but didn't help with only validating valid not invalid.   But, I did think the rewarding behavior parts and the limit setting really good.

[Darkbeforedawn]

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me!  I appreciate it very much.   

I am reading a book currently called BPD in adolescence - though it is more for hind sight purposes as she is 19 going on 20 and no longer living under my roof nor am I parenting her.

I did read I hate you, don't leave me - several years ago and have browsed many other books including the one stop walking on eggshells.

I used to read a lot as I struggled in my late teens, early twenties and my mother believed I had BPD - I didn't but I did struggle for a time as my mum has OCD of which she was diagnosed and growing up was difficult as mum had severe depression and anxiety too - so it took me a few years to 'find myself' and I had to hold my mother back at arms length for a few years as she was quite 'in my face' and I would become quite stressed as a young mum as I was often left feeling inadequate and not good enough.

So I have been very mindful not to repeat cycles and so have tried to give my daughter validation and support every step of the way.  I am not a perfect parent obviously and my daughter's rages have seen me reactive in the past.  I completed a mindfulness course 2 years ago involving changing the neural pathways in the brain - as a result -the dance my daughter and I previously shared - stopped!  Now she dances alone.  But recently she has tried to engage me in it again and I had not realised that I was allowing myself to feel self-doubt again in myself.  I do have very good boundaries with her now. 

I think the Gorges conclusion re. our daughter's "wanting" to get better is key. 

My daughter tends to use males to 'help' her though in what way I wouldn't know as I have never met any other than the father of my granddaughter and I didn't meet him until she was pregnant.  These males seem to be invisible only appearing at night I am guessing.  She has never ever had a real relationship with a man.  She rejects all offers from professionals once the 'crises' is over.  She cannot hold down a job, she is using alcohol now for whatever purposes - again I wouldn't know, she socialises with drug users, not sure if she smokes weed or does anything else, she drives illegally and erratically - she jokes about the latter, she is unhygienic and doesn't care about her appearance usually, her mood swings are crazy, rational one min and horrible the next,  she doesn't eat properly and keeps getting sick, she doesn't appear to learn from any of her mistakes as they keep repeating,  she has previously burned herself with hot wax and apparently tried cutting and has bruised herself a fair bit,  she has recently overdosed as a result of finding out she was pregnant again - said she wanted to die with the baby rather than have it because she knew I couldn't raise another and she can't etc, she miscarried.  She has also tried tying numerous things around her neck to strangle herself to the point where she has blood blisters all over her neck and face and is swollen up.  She has run out in front of traffic several times since 11 or 12 years of age.  She used to hoard stuff when she was little and was quite inappropriate and a bit personal/overly familiar with people she didn't know particularly well.  She fights with most of her friends now - never used to and is violent too and has been arrested etc - had diversion.  So it isn't our relationship - it is honestly her behaviour.  She directs this stuff at friends, professionals, other family members and of course me.

Thank you naughty nibbler - I read the FOG, yesterday actually.  I have researched and read up on BPD for many, many years and I do understand BUT when it comes to your own child and no one here seems to 'get it' - well you are just left feeling a bit gutted and hoping and praying we don't have another suicide in our family at the end of the day.

My struggle is coming in as I can't just distance myself as I am legally obligated to 'see' her for my granddaughter's sake well really for the court's sake.  So yes, emotionally I have to just stay detached and not 'fall' for her sob stories any more - THAT is my challenge!

Saphirewidow ((HUGS)) how painful for you - I am sorry xx  You are right - one day at a time - I will check out that book Gorges!  The chapters on rewarding and limit setting sound interesting.  Naughty nibbler - I am actually almost all read out right now - reading too much of this stuff actually messes with the head a bit after a while - like my daughter does!  So I will check in from time to time and ask questions as they arise - thank you for your advice x