Have You Ever Had to Make-Up Your Mind...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm sure that most people here don't remember that song. But, anyway.

It was suggested that I start posting here because of my situation.

Some of you may know, but for those who don't, uBPDexgf and I were together for roughly 1.5 years. I suffer from C-PTSD and probably codependency. Two people who fear rejection and abandonment in a r/s can be an explosive combination to say the least. We were definitely a high conflict couple. Her emotional dysregulated and lack of impulse control would trigger me and I would, in turn, trigger her more.

Of course, she denies having any issues prior to meeting me; which is contrary to her stated history. But, that's kinda the norm around here. She blames all the problems in the r/s on me because of my issues. I accept 100% responsibility for my choices.

I leave the r/s. NC for almost two months. I reach out to apologize. She responds. She tells me that she still might desires a r/s with me. But, because of the things that I did and the way that I acted, she can't trust me. In fact, she told me that because of me, she can't trust anyone.

But, she thinks that she might be interested in this other guy, she hasn't decided yet. And that they are just good friends who spend time together daily. They have talked about getting together, but are both scared.

She's asked me to give her some time. I agreed. She thinks that I have BPD, so I figured that regardless of what she's doing, I'll just keep working on myself. I figure that the worst that can happen is that I get healthier and want nothing to do with her. Or, maybe that I get healthier and she wants to try. But, I suspect, since she's gone NC, that what will happen is that I'll get healthier and she'll move on with the new guy.

Thoughts?

[Meili]

I'm sure that most people here don't remember that song. But, anyway.

It was suggested that I start posting here because of my situation.

Some of you may know, but for those who don't, uBPDexgf and I were together for roughly 1.5 years. I suffer from C-PTSD and probably codependency. Two people who fear rejection and abandonment in a r/s can be an explosive combination to say the least. We were definitely a high conflict couple. Her emotional dysregulated and lack of impulse control would trigger me and I would, in turn, trigger her more.

Of course, she denies having any issues prior to meeting me; which is contrary to her stated history. But, that's kinda the norm around here. She blames all the problems in the r/s on me because of my issues. I accept 100% responsibility for my choices.

I leave the r/s. NC for almost two months. I reach out to apologize. She responds. She tells me that she still might desires a r/s with me. But, because of the things that I did and the way that I acted, she can't trust me. In fact, she told me that because of me, she can't trust anyone.

But, she thinks that she might be interested in this other guy, she hasn't decided yet. And that they are just good friends who spend time together daily. They have talked about getting together, but are both scared.

She's asked me to give her some time. I agreed. She thinks that I have BPD, so I figured that regardless of what she's doing, I'll just keep working on myself. I figure that the worst that can happen is that I get healthier and want nothing to do with her. Or, maybe that I get healthier and she wants to try. But, I suspect, since she's gone NC, that what will happen is that I'll get healthier and she'll move on with the new guy.

Thoughts?

[vortex of confusion]

My first thought when I read your post was, "How long are you willing to wait?" Can you set a time frame for yourself (don't tell her) where you will move on with your life with or without her?

Ex used to use "give me time" as an excuse to get out of recommitting to the relationship and to get out of having to actually do anything that related to our relationship. I allowed him to string me along for close to three years. I was the one that finally got to a point where I said no more and kicked him out. If it was up to him, he would still be stringing me along with one foot in the relationship and one foot out.

[montenell]

Sounds like you got or of jail free...   Why go back?

[Meili]

I have already set a time limit Vortex.

Because I choose to montenel.

[Meili]

I have been giving my response to montenell a bit more thought. When I originally posted it, I did so because it's the honest, truthful answer. But why do I want to is what I need to examine.

Towards the end of our r/s my x asked me why I stayed with her? My response to her was "guilt." At the time, it too was the truthful, honest answer. I was with her because I knew that I had been/was behaving badly. I knew that I had and was continuing to hurt her and was trying in my own way, based on the tools that I had available at the time, to change that. I knew that internally she was suffering and I was trying desperately to find a way to make it everything better for both of us.

That changed from guilt to obligation at some point. I felt obligated to repair the damage that I had done. I felt obligated to help her because I understand what she's going through all too well. Then I realized that I cannot save her. I cannot control the situation. I cannot take the past pains away. Those things are completely within her control, and they are something that I had to learn to stop trying to control.

When we split and I went NC, I spent a good portion of that time living in fear. Fear that I would never be happy. Fear that I would never experience the emotions that I experienced with her again. Fear that I was giving up the one person who I would ever love like that. Most importantly, fear that I was wrong about so much in our r/s because of my own issues. Those fears gently subsided though.

Once the FOG lifted, I was left with the question of why would I want to be with someone who abused me? When I look back on the r/s and try to project it into the future, I am forced to remember all of the times that I asked her to stop, and she didn't. I remember all of the devaluation and projections. I remember all the fear and pain that I felt. I know that I have changed and am maturing as I continue to work on my own issues and deal with my problems.

While my answer was simple and truthful, it was not complete. I want to because I love this woman and want to spend my life with her. I want to be the one that treats her differently all the others in her past. I want to help her see the joy and love that she brought into my world. I want to hold her hand as she continues on her journey wherever that destination might be.

I am now in a place where my thoughts and feelings are not frantically trying to make sense of all of it. I am now in a position to calmly think about my choices and the commitments and compromises that I'm willing to make and where my limits are. I am detaching, but leaving the door unlocked for her should she decide that I'm what she wants and if she wants the same from me.

I have given up trying to control that too. If she decides that she wants to be with me before I have decided that my limits have been met, then I'm willing to take the risk to have the things that I want with her. If decides otherwise, I will respect that choice.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Meili, Whose decision is it -- yours or hers?  I guess you're saying that it's hers, until you decide to make it yours?  LJ

[Meili]

I don't understand.

I've made my decision. She has to make hers. I can't make it for her! If I could, we'd be in couples counseling on top of our individual counseling. But since that's not where she's at... .

So, I am just keeping on with my stuff until I decide to change directions or she tells me what she's decided. I have a self-imposed deadline on how long I'm willing to wait.

[Lucky Jim]

What I mean is, if you want her back, have you done all you can to get her back?  Waiting around, hoping to hear from her, seems to me like a passive approach.  Is there anything you can do to bring things to a conclusion, so you can either regroup w/her or move on with your life?  Living in limbo, as you seem to be doing, is no place to be, in my view.  You're more or less in a holding pattern at the moment, right?

If I'm driving you crazy with my questions, feel free to ignore or decline to respond.  I've been in that state of limbo with my BPDxW.  One time we broke up for six months, only to get back together and ultimately marry, which was largely a function of me ignoring my gut feelings that there was something fundamentally wrong w/our relationship.  Of course you are on a different footing because I had never heard of BPD, whereas you are quite knowledgeable about the disorder.

LuckyJim

[Meili]

I don't mind the questions at all.

The only reason that I have any knowledge about the disorder is because I suffer from what that is very similar. As I've learned more about it, I've had to question all of my reactions in the r/s. Was I the one who had the facts wrong? Was I pushing her away because I was afraid of abandonment (the answer to that one is yes. She never broke things off with me, I did it to her several times)? The list goes on. If it weren't for very specific things that I can point to that she repeatedly did, I'd have questioned right along with her the other day when she asked about me being a pwBPD. I tried to explain the difference between the two, but... .

Anyway, I've been working on me. I have been learning all that I can about my problems and issues. I'm working on making myself more of the person that I want to be in addition to fixing the issues. I've been cutting out toxic things in my life. I'm trying to make myself a more attractive individual that people actually want to be around.

The reason that I'm "letting" her decide is because she specifically asked me to give her time to decide if she wants to give us another try. She has been very consistent, when we do speak, in reminding me that she does love me and trying to make me feel safe (thus keeping my abandonment fears at bay). She has been seeing her counselor AFAIK. She's been nice enough to let me know that she hasn't painted me black to anyone. She's told me that she has a new "male friend" but assures me that they aren't sleeping together (I didn't ask), and I can either trust her on that or not. Since I have female friends, I can't really complain about that either. Most importantly on that front, during on entire r/s, she hated that I was still friends with my exes, and she has completely severed all of her exes from her world; but she still talks to me (although, not as much as would make me comfortable) while running around with this guy and hasn't completely cut me out yet.

I know that much of that is pie-in-the-sky, high hopes, but I have to start trusting her sometime.

If she decides to move on, it'll rest me back to the beginning, but I'll be a far better person by then.

ETA: Thank you LJ. I has having a particularly hard day dealing with my fears. By responding to your question as I did, I was reminded of the effort that she is actually making, in spite of my repeated betrayal of her trust.

I also want to add that yesterday, when she told me that she doesn't talk bad about me, I told her that I didn't think that she talked about me at all. She found that to be interesting. I still don't know why she found that interesting... .

[Meili]

Last night, well, really this morning, she gave me another gentle (with a rather large stick) reminder she does love me. It was during a two our conversation via text that lasted between 2 and 4 am.

During that conversation, she also told me that I keep using the push/pull dynamic on her. I keep trying to pull her back in, but keep pushing her away because I'm afraid that she'll ultimately decide that she doesn't want to be with me. My self-confidence is clearly lacking when it comes to her.

Knowing that my lack of self-confidence was a big problem during our r/s, I need to figure out how to trust her (she gave me a big hint when she told me that she wouldn't have been chatting with me in the middle of the night if she didn't still love me and didn't have some desire to reconcile). It's maddening for me, so I am really sure that it is for her also.

[Cat Familiar]

I understand the push/pull dynamic on both sides because I, too, have been wounded in intimate relationships. When trust is lacking on both sides, intimacy is lost.

Something that concerns me is her telling you about this other guy and that they're considering developing a relationship, but that they're both hesitant. This seems to create a sense of urgency for you, whether or not she's consciously aware of doing that.

[Meili]

Oh, yes, it created just that. It took me a few days to regroup from that and realize that there's absolutely nothing that I can do if that's her choice.She's an adult, she gets to choose, and she gets all that comes with it.

As much as I hate being in limbo, I'm happy for the time to make changes in my life and change habits. I have always heard that it takes 21 days to break a bad habit (and 7 to make one). I'm on day 8 for at least one of the bad habits that I am trying to make. Another got reset the other night when I had an emotional meltdown because I misunderstood something. Oh, well. Day three for that one.

Also, each day I am able to detach a little more. I'm starting to find myself in all of this. I'm doing things that I've always been afraid to do. I'm going out and meeting new people and cultivating new friendships. Even better, I'm renewing old ones that were lost when I was with her.

I must admit that the longer that this goes on, the more that I wonder if she's just stringing me along as her backup plan? Or, perhaps someone to chat with when she gets bored. But, I know because it won't last forever. I have a deadline in place.

It really bothers me that she made a comment to me about things that I should have done if our r/s was truly the most important thing in my world. But, I can't see her making it a priority now. That just tells me that it isn't the most important thing in hers anymore.

There are so many conflicting signals from her.

[Lucky Jim]

Last night, well, really this morning, she gave me another gentle (with a rather large stick) reminder she does love me. It was during a two our conversation via text that lasted between 2 and 4 am.

To me, this type of prolonged discussion between 2:00 and 4:00 a.m. is a red flag.     It suggests that your boundaries are poor.  Why are you responding to texts from her at 2:00 a.m.?  Because on some level you feel compelled to respond, I would suggest.  If she says "jump," will you say "how high"?  Seriously, give some thought to whether your codependent side is in full swing when she reaches out to you.

It really bothers me that she made a comment to me about things that I should have done if our r/s was truly the most important thing in my world. But, I can't see her making it a priority now. That just tells me that it isn't the most important thing in hers anymore.

I think this is a mind game on her part.  My suggestion: don't participate.

Sorry to be so blunt in this post, but maybe it will help!   

LuckyJim

[Meili]

No, not blunt at all. I appreciate the feedback!

The codependency part was probably involved, yes. I was looking for affirmation that she still cared. Which begs the question of why I still care? That answer is easy, I'm still not detached. I'm learning how to deal with things, but I still haven't made it there quite yet. What she thinks and feels about me is still important to me.

Plus, I get stuck in the "she feels unimportant and triggered if I don't respond to her" loop.

I'm not sure that I understand the boundary part though.

I'm trying really hard to not get caught in the mind games. I'm just never sure where the line is between being a muppet and making sure that she knows that I haven't and am not abandoning her.

[Meili]

Well, it's all of little consequence now. She just told me that she's seeing someone and is done with me. I'm actually surprised that it doesn't hurt. But, I was already pretty sure this was going to be the outcome.

[Lucky Jim]

Sorry to hear, Meili.  I understand: it stings.  Suggest you be kind and considerate to yourself.  You have learned so much from this experience!  Don't beat yourself up, OK?  It's doubtful that the outcome would have been any different, no matter what you might have done differently.  Having closure is a good thing, in my view, though I suspect it doesn't feel like that to you right now.  Now you can move forward with your life.  One day, I predict, you will look back and feel grateful for getting out of the r/s.

LuckyJim

[Meili]

That's just it LJ, it doesn't sting. She's followed her script exactly as expected. Blaming everything no me. Denying anything that she did wrong. I've done enough detaching to not personalize it.

[Cat Familiar]

Yep. When we see their true colors, it often becomes easy to let them go. 

[Meili]

Yes, it does make it easier.

For the record, I still hate that it turned out how it did. It seems like such a waste. But, I do now get to move on with my life with the knowledge that I did all that I could have possibly done.

[Grey Kitty]

OK, I hear that she's already decided she's dating the other guy and not you, so this is a bit irrelevant... .but I'd like you to re-read what you wrote here:

She tells me that she still might desires a r/s with me. But, because of the things that I did and the way that I acted, she can't trust me. In fact, she told me that because of me, she can't trust anyone.

But, she thinks that she might be interested in this other guy, she hasn't decided yet.

That's a pretty lukewarm ambiguous level of interest in you there. Kinda stringing you along but not giving you much hope.

If you met somebody new and heard that from them, would you think "I hope she decides to give me a chance?" Or would you think "Geez, I think I'll look for somebody who is sure they are into me instead of waiting for an answer from her!"

[Meili]

If you met somebody new and heard that from them, would you think "I hope she decides to give me a chance?" Or would you think "Geez, I think I'll look for somebody who is sure they are into me instead of waiting for an answer from her!"

This is pretty much to the point I had gotten when she told me that she is seeing someone. I kept wondering why I was interested in someone who wasn't that interested in me.

I will say that I'm really glad how it played out. All my guilt and shame is gone. Her hypocrisy (one of the main problems that I had with the r/s) freed me from all of that. It was kinda funny, and sad at the same time, that she spent so much time complaining because I was friends with my other ex and accusing me of cheating on her; yet, there she was, dating this new guy, contacting me, telling me that she misses having sex with me, that she loves me, that she's thinking about giving us another chance, and all that goes with it. And, when I questioned the hypocrisy of it, she told me that she has changed her way of thinking about all of it. Then she proceeded to follow her old path and tell me how horrible of a person I am for talking to my ex. Gotta love projecting!