You're psychotic you're a saint

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I've requested my H stay out of the home since he left and attempted suicide three weeks ago. (Not sure the etiquette on posts here - should I be keeping to one long thread so I don't keep rehashing this?) He was hospitalized for a few days and is now nearing the end of IOP (3 day/3 hr per week program). Pretty much all last week he vacillated by day or hour over me being psychotic and needing to be with me. On Friday, I both had a meeting with him and his IOP case worker and had my own therapy appointment. Our main issue is living arrangements – he is adamant that he wants to be home, with or without me and 16D there (but preferably with). He's staying with his dad at this point about 45 minutes away. In the session with his case worker, he decided he wanted to get a place closer to us, probably a year lease, and he wanted me to send him how much he could spend (I'm the main breadwinner due to his depression/anxiety (uBPD?) his income has scaled back a lot.) I realized after the meeting no matter what I said he would want more, since the point is to make me share in his discomfort.

After my therapy session, I was feeling assertive and called and told him that he has access to and could figure out the budget himself. I wasn't comfortable with a year lease but he could look for something 3-6 months but I'm not willing to commit to support him for a year on my own. He would need to start working and contribute. He took that to mean he had to get well within 6 months. He was done. He posted on Facebook, called and berated me, I was psychotic. He's coming back to the house whether u like it or not. Eesh.

I went to bed and woke up and started thinking more about his depression and disease and my not showing him empathy. I read some NAMI Family-to-Family handouts (a free class recommended by his case worker) about not stigmatizing - blaming him for his disease. I reached out to him and said let me just listen. Tell me about your IOP. Tell me about your days. He talked for a while with me saying "ok" or "mmhmm" or a follow up question showing I'm listening. I felt compassion I hadn't been feeling. Then the kicker - he asked how I've been doing. He wasn't as good at listening but it was so lovely to be asked. He said he understood now I was hurting and he didn't realize how bad it was. We were both regretful for letting our hurt get so big we were overwhelmed with it. Great phone call. He was going to do the budget and let me know where he needed help. That happened and he decided to continue to stay with his dad for now.

And now... .He's deleted the post on Facebook that he's done and newly wrote this morning how I deserve a medal for 24 years with him and he's working to win me back. FWIW, I've told a total of 2 people outside my immediate family and therapists that we're on a break. One of our mutual friends wrote "Well, shoot" and H replied with a joke something like "No violence. And we have dogs so no War of the Roses references". It's not the first time he's mentioned that movie (spoiler alert: both husband and wife end up dead during a messy divorce). So now I deserve a medal but he's still thinking violence and hurting our dogs or me is the message I got. It scares me as much as when I was labeled psychotic. I'm pretty convinced I'll be labeled evil again by the end of this week. There is no medium.

How do you deal with this? I got the book "Splitting" and it seems so harsh. I want to have compassion. I am planning to consult with some attorneys and get my legal and financial situation in order. I'm very consistent that I'd hope we can both get healthy and reconcile but I'm aware it's not likely. This just seems like if he never gets well (which is likely I'm told) it will be continue to be really hard whether he's here or not. Thanks for listening and any advice.

[uniquename]

I've requested my H stay out of the home since he left and attempted suicide three weeks ago. (Not sure the etiquette on posts here - should I be keeping to one long thread so I don't keep rehashing this?) He was hospitalized for a few days and is now nearing the end of IOP (3 day/3 hr per week program). Pretty much all last week he vacillated by day or hour over me being psychotic and needing to be with me. On Friday, I both had a meeting with him and his IOP case worker and had my own therapy appointment. Our main issue is living arrangements – he is adamant that he wants to be home, with or without me and 16D there (but preferably with). He's staying with his dad at this point about 45 minutes away. In the session with his case worker, he decided he wanted to get a place closer to us, probably a year lease, and he wanted me to send him how much he could spend (I'm the main breadwinner due to his depression/anxiety (uBPD?) his income has scaled back a lot.) I realized after the meeting no matter what I said he would want more, since the point is to make me share in his discomfort.

After my therapy session, I was feeling assertive and called and told him that he has access to and could figure out the budget himself. I wasn't comfortable with a year lease but he could look for something 3-6 months but I'm not willing to commit to support him for a year on my own. He would need to start working and contribute. He took that to mean he had to get well within 6 months. He was done. He posted on Facebook, called and berated me, I was psychotic. He's coming back to the house whether u like it or not. Eesh.

I went to bed and woke up and started thinking more about his depression and disease and my not showing him empathy. I read some NAMI Family-to-Family handouts (a free class recommended by his case worker) about not stigmatizing - blaming him for his disease. I reached out to him and said let me just listen. Tell me about your IOP. Tell me about your days. He talked for a while with me saying "ok" or "mmhmm" or a follow up question showing I'm listening. I felt compassion I hadn't been feeling. Then the kicker - he asked how I've been doing. He wasn't as good at listening but it was so lovely to be asked. He said he understood now I was hurting and he didn't realize how bad it was. We were both regretful for letting our hurt get so big we were overwhelmed with it. Great phone call. He was going to do the budget and let me know where he needed help. That happened and he decided to continue to stay with his dad for now.

And now... .He's deleted the post on Facebook that he's done and newly wrote this morning how I deserve a medal for 24 years with him and he's working to win me back. FWIW, I've told a total of 2 people outside my immediate family and therapists that we're on a break. One of our mutual friends wrote "Well, shoot" and H replied with a joke something like "No violence. And we have dogs so no War of the Roses references". It's not the first time he's mentioned that movie (spoiler alert: both husband and wife end up dead during a messy divorce). So now I deserve a medal but he's still thinking violence and hurting our dogs or me is the message I got. It scares me as much as when I was labeled psychotic. I'm pretty convinced I'll be labeled evil again by the end of this week. There is no medium.

How do you deal with this? I got the book "Splitting" and it seems so harsh. I want to have compassion. I am planning to consult with some attorneys and get my legal and financial situation in order. I'm very consistent that I'd hope we can both get healthy and reconcile but I'm aware it's not likely. This just seems like if he never gets well (which is likely I'm told) it will be continue to be really hard whether he's here or not. Thanks for listening and any advice.

[Icanteven]

I reached out to him and said let me just listen. Tell me about your IOP. Tell me about your days. He talked for a while with me saying "ok" or "mmhmm" or a follow up question showing I'm listening. I felt compassion I hadn't been feeling. Then the kicker - he asked how I've been doing. He wasn't as good at listening but it was so lovely to be asked. He said he understood now I was hurting and he didn't realize how bad it was.

Please be super careful getting your hopes up with this.  When I speak to my wife, I can ask her about how she's doing in therapy and she will talk for thirty minutes without her even registering that she's been talking non stop or that her actions have negatively impacted our family.  She loves to talk about herself, but should I mention how her actions have devastated us the conversation will abruptly end.  I can basically validate and acknowledge till hell freezes over, but any attempt to elicit accountability or responsibility from her will immediately end a conversation, often with being hung up on.

Further, the other day she was lucid enough to reach out to me for a change to, like your husband, ask how I was doing.  But, she wasn't really asking how I was doing.  She was having a bad day, and her question "how are you doing" was really an entree into "I'm not doing well and I want to know that you're not doing well either."  When I told her I was down the road with putting our lives back together, she decided it was an appropriate time to let me know she felt worthless and that she didn't want to live and was disappointed that I was trying to move on.  "How are you doing" wasn't about me, it was about her.

You know your husband so your dynamic may be different, but I can tell you that virtually every question she asks about me or the kids is a form of projection to telegraph that she is in a negative place for whatever question she asks.  And it's become predictable to the point of caricature. 

[Cat Familiar]

You describe how your husband goes from painting you black (psychotic) to painting you white (deserving a medal). He wants to live in your house (with or without you and your daughter) and if you're not willing to do that, he wants your financial support to help pay for a place nearby, rather than live with his father 45 minutes away. Also he wants extra money which will be a burden for your finances.

You are not willing to make a commitment to support him for one year and you expect him to work and contribute to a budget that he can figure out on his own. You want him to take responsibility for himself. He threatened to return to your home and labeled you "psychotic" on social media.

You reached out to him through a phone call and showed interest in his feelings and experience. Then he asked about you, which was unexpected and felt good. He is taking steps to be responsible for himself. However, he sounds unstable, making references to a movie about divorce which ends in violence.

You would like to take steps to get your legal and financial situation in order and have doubts that he will ever be emotionally healthy enough for you to want to resume your relationship.

Is that about right?

In what you've related, I see a lot of emphasis on his wants rather than on your and your daughter's needs, and when I say "needs" I'm thinking of a need for a safe home environment. He doesn't sound safe or stable and if I were in your shoes, I would not want him living in my house, or even close by.

During the time my ex-husband and I were separating, after about twenty years of being together, he expected me to support his lifestyle, even though he was living with his girlfriend and not working. Through FOG (fear, obligation and guilt), I did so for a while. It wasn't until he asked me for money to go on a short vacation with his girlfriend and I refused, and I then asked a contractor who was working on my house if I was being unreasonable.

The look on that guy's face when I told him the scenario really woke me up as well as what he had to say. I could see that it took all of his self-control not to tell me what a no-good-son-of-a-b* my husband was and what kind of man would ask a woman to support him like that?

Well, I now know that my ex was an undiagnosed borderline personality and in his mind that seemed like a reasonable request. But not to me.

[formflier]

Please read Cat Familiar's post several times.

I understand that you want him to get better.  Less contact is likely better.  That way you can make sure that whatever contact you have is healthy for you and him. 

You control you getting better.  You control the environment for you and your child.

Do no let him sucker you into agreeing to conditions or "setting the bar" so he knows what he has to do to "get you back".  Likely he will not quite jump over the bar and still beg you to applaud his effort by taking him back.

Make it clear to him that once he gets much healthier, that you are interested in discussing the r/s then.

Keep posting, looking forward to following the story of you and your daughter to a healthier place.

FF

[uniquename]

Cat and FF,
I really appreciate your replies. I'm obviously in the FOG myself and having trouble reconciling the need to ensure my safety and that of my daughter, both physically and emotionally, with my H's needs as a sufferer of mental illness.

I have been listening to "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and bought "Splitting" and been using it as a reference and skimming. After feeling more guilt over the lack of compassion I was feeling from those, I bought "When Someone You Love Has a Mental Illness." It came last night and I was sure it was going to tell me I'm handling this all wrong. I started reading this morning and it said the opposite too. I find myself crying reading about the affects on family members to crisis like a suicide attempt, spouses in particular, and the struggles we go through. I'm coming to terms that I am dealing with loving someone with a mental illness who will never not be that. He may get better but it will almost assuredly never be cured. It is very hard. I do love him dearly. It will take time but I feel very validated now that I am not the unfeeling person my H paints me to be or I myself worry I am. Again, thank you Cat and FF for helping me see this too.

[formflier]

  I'm coming to terms that I am dealing with loving someone with a mental illness who will never not be that. He may get better but it will almost assuredly never be cured.

There is a lot of fear in this.  A very hard life that is likely different that one your dreamed about.  The fear you are experiencing as you begin to understand the challenge you face is understandable and normal... .100% normal.

This is about you, not him.  Allow yourself to feel the fear and to grieve the loss of your dreams.  Don't rush through this.   

Very hard to do this over the internet.  I'm hoping you are plugged in with a good T that you can talk openly and honestly about what happened to your dreams... .and how you feel about that.

   

FF

[uniquename]

Yes, FF, you are right there too. I am going to therapy and she seems good so far. Telling me same things you guys are. I'm lacking in trust of Ts a bit considering my H has been seeing one for 2+ years now and when I told her last month he seemed suicidal she blew me off. I read in "When Someone You Love... ." this is a common and normal reaction to be pissed at his T too :-). Mostly looking for confidence in my decisions and validation from multiple sources that won't just take what I'm saying as "right" (like family or a T might).  Thanks.

[formflier]

Trust is critical for a good relationship with a T.  I would also encourage you to remember whose T is whose. 

It sounds like that you advised your hubby's T of an issue and aren't satisfied with how the T handled it.

It is likely you will never know how the T attempted to address it, since that T is not yours.  Generally the expectation is a one way flow of information, where you send information in, but likely won't get feedback due to privacy and the complexity of the situation.

Perhaps discussing this with your T could clarify things.

Also, the T is not responsible for actions of your hubby.  Keep responsibility (much better to use that word than blame) where it should be.

I applaud you for discussing your trust issues.  That's a vulnerable thing to do.  I hope it will help you and others that are struggling as well to discuss this.

   

FF