Validation win

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

One of the things my Psychologist and I have been working on is to help me "draw out" the emotions of my wife and to be strong while those come out.  To stick with it as long as it doesn't get abusive.

Not sure if the two events are related.  But here are two things that I think "depressurized" the relationship... .or at least my wife a little bit.

Friday night:  She says something about a cousin of hers that is going to have a finalized divorce in 30 days.  I had no idea there were even troubles.  My wife didn't seem that emotional, but was railing against the guy.  I said something along the lines of "We'll never know the truth.  Two sides to every story."  (I guess the guy had a girlfriend and somehow the guy is going to get support from the cousin, vice supporting her in the divorce)

Anyway... .she seemed to get emotional and went and took a hot bath.  I thought about it for a bit and realized it really was an insensitive remark and I should have foreseen this would be an emotional subject. 

When she got out of the bath, I gave her a heartfelt apology for the insensitive remark and focused my comments on being there for each others emotions.  She really seemed to relax. 

Next day, she seemed anxious and wanting to talk.  Asked me a question about a religious view of mine and when I started to answer, she cut me off... .demanding to know why I always dominate the conversation.

I acted bemused about not being able to answer the question and she stomped off... .muttering.  At this point... .I knew she was powder keg and hoped to use some P taught skills to defuse.  I gave her five minutes and then went and took her hand and led her back to couch.

Told her I wanted to listen.  Did body language and tone as P instructed.  Leaned in to her.   She seemingly tried to sabotage the moment by asking about money.  (I told her we would talk later about that).  She brought up a few others topics which I identified as rabbit trails and said I would discuss later.

The... .the cork blew.  She started talking about how bad she was.  That she knew she was out of control... etc etc.

"That sounds scary... .tell me about it"  seemed to find it's mark.  I swear some tenseness left her and the words sort of speeded up.  She went way back in time and was beating herself up about how bad she was as a mom and how often she failed our kids.

It was really hard to listen to... .but I stayed with her.  Didn't agree or disagree. 

After she was silent for a while (few minutes).  I asked her if it would be ok if I shared some of my thoughts on what she had said.

She thought for a while and said "sure".

I made some comments about God's sovereignty and that she was the right person and the right time for our kids, and that while the kids were growing in their faith, so was my wife.

It sounded positive, but didn't directly say she was wrong... .or right.  Basically I didn't address if she was good or bad.

I would say this entire thing lasted for 30-40 minutes of me listening a lot and saying very little.  She was much more relaxed for the rest of the day.

Technically speaking:  I think I "hit the validation target" and then was a safe place for my wife to vent out a lot of fear/anxiety.

Looking forward to discussing with P on Tuesday.

FF

[formflier]

One of the things my Psychologist and I have been working on is to help me "draw out" the emotions of my wife and to be strong while those come out.  To stick with it as long as it doesn't get abusive.

Not sure if the two events are related.  But here are two things that I think "depressurized" the relationship... .or at least my wife a little bit.

Friday night:  She says something about a cousin of hers that is going to have a finalized divorce in 30 days.  I had no idea there were even troubles.  My wife didn't seem that emotional, but was railing against the guy.  I said something along the lines of "We'll never know the truth.  Two sides to every story."  (I guess the guy had a girlfriend and somehow the guy is going to get support from the cousin, vice supporting her in the divorce)

Anyway... .she seemed to get emotional and went and took a hot bath.  I thought about it for a bit and realized it really was an insensitive remark and I should have foreseen this would be an emotional subject. 

When she got out of the bath, I gave her a heartfelt apology for the insensitive remark and focused my comments on being there for each others emotions.  She really seemed to relax. 

Next day, she seemed anxious and wanting to talk.  Asked me a question about a religious view of mine and when I started to answer, she cut me off... .demanding to know why I always dominate the conversation.

I acted bemused about not being able to answer the question and she stomped off... .muttering.  At this point... .I knew she was powder keg and hoped to use some P taught skills to defuse.  I gave her five minutes and then went and took her hand and led her back to couch.

Told her I wanted to listen.  Did body language and tone as P instructed.  Leaned in to her.   She seemingly tried to sabotage the moment by asking about money.  (I told her we would talk later about that).  She brought up a few others topics which I identified as rabbit trails and said I would discuss later.

The... .the cork blew.  She started talking about how bad she was.  That she knew she was out of control... etc etc.

"That sounds scary... .tell me about it"  seemed to find it's mark.  I swear some tenseness left her and the words sort of speeded up.  She went way back in time and was beating herself up about how bad she was as a mom and how often she failed our kids.

It was really hard to listen to... .but I stayed with her.  Didn't agree or disagree. 

After she was silent for a while (few minutes).  I asked her if it would be ok if I shared some of my thoughts on what she had said.

She thought for a while and said "sure".

I made some comments about God's sovereignty and that she was the right person and the right time for our kids, and that while the kids were growing in their faith, so was my wife.

It sounded positive, but didn't directly say she was wrong... .or right.  Basically I didn't address if she was good or bad.

I would say this entire thing lasted for 30-40 minutes of me listening a lot and saying very little.  She was much more relaxed for the rest of the day.

Technically speaking:  I think I "hit the validation target" and then was a safe place for my wife to vent out a lot of fear/anxiety.

Looking forward to discussing with P on Tuesday.

FF

[KateCat]

Wow.

[gotbushels]

I thought about it for a bit and realized it really was an insensitive remark and I should have foreseen this would be an emotional subject.  

I think this was really well done. Very in the moment. Also, FF you can't read her mind, and you can't predict the future... .At least now you know for future reference that when she's "railing" against someone, that she's in sort of a higher trigger moment.

Technically speaking:  I think I "hit the validation target" and then was a safe place for my wife to vent out a lot of fear/anxiety.

This is so good. Thanks for sharing.

[formflier]

The P has been telling me that it is likely that when the emotions start coming out... .that there will be lots of "force" with them and to not be surprised if the "splash" places where they really shouldn't go.  

Two purposes of the illustration.

1.  For me:  To be in touch with my feelings and have a good outlet to regularly let them out.  That way there is less chances for splashing where they are not supposed to go.

2.  For her.  To be in touch with her feelings, which she will attempt to hide (probably not consciously) and when they start coming out, to stick with it in a non-judgmental way.  Likely they will be coming from a dark place and I should do my best to be there with her, until she feels like going to a different place.


OK... .so three points.

Splashing will happen.  A relationship that is devoid of splashing, isn't really a relationship.  There are healthy ways to deal with splashing and I need to view it as a chance to "go to the gym".  While be self aware enough to realize when I've done too much and it's likely I will "drop the weights".

FF

[byfaith]

thanks for sharing FF

I believe I also had a validation win yesterday, the validation that I gave her opened her to a flood of tearful emotion. Not uncontrolled emotion

We have decided together that we will discuss the issue concerning her son in counseling. This part will be a rough ride

It was really hard to listen to... .but I stayed with her.  Didn't agree or disagree. 

I practiced this yesterday. It seemed to turn out well

[formflier]

If you have time... .please post for others how it went. 

What did you focus on to help stay neutral... .to avoid bait... .to let her know that you were in her corner... .while avoiding agreeing or disagreeing on particulars.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Good work, FF and byfaith! Thank you for posting this, FF, it was inspirational reading it. You're getting excellent help from your psychologist.

It was really hard to listen to... .but I stayed with her.  :)idn't agree or disagree.

These two sentences say so much. The more I've started to understand about being in a BPD relationship, I think I can chart some distinct steps in my own progress.

1. Feeling angry that my spouse is being so unreasonable

2. Being absolutely confused how our conversations get so offtrack and emotional

3. Realizing that the closeness we once felt was partially real and partially a mirage

4. Feeling grief at "losing" the relationship I thought I had

5. Being overwhelmed at learning I had to learn so much to be able to communicate with him

6. Feeling angry that I had to do so much work while he could run rampant with his crazy

7. Getting over the buildup of resentment I'd been collecting for many years

8. Developing patience and understanding for him


Formflier, I see you at step #8.  

[byfaith]

What did you focus on to help stay neutral... .to avoid bait... .to let her know that you were in her corner... .while avoiding agreeing or disagreeing on particulars.

I tried to focus on what she was saying and hearing her. It made it a little easier because she was not in attack mode on me but she was letting me know that she felt a certain way about a situation concerning my D23. My D23 dog cussed my wife back a couple months ago and that's why my D was not welcomed to remain in the house because she never made the situation right.

I focused also on my body language. I have to be honest my wife really applied some tools we have been learning in MC. She came into the discussion softly.

To me this was major but she said she has been asking God to help her, she even said that she needed to quit blaming me for everything. These things came out after I sat and listened to her issue concerning my daughter.

I tried to think before I spoke. I used "I" statements instead of "you" statements.

If I can think of any more details I will post them

[byfaith]

on my part I kept my emotional composure and so did she

I just got a text from her as i was typing this post

HER: I sure do love you. Im so looking forward to us learning how to love each other the way God intended.

So I will take the good when it comes   and hope to build off of it. We have a long way to go

she said something else yesterday, tears in her eyes, I have never had the chance to work on a marriage ( that is sad) but now I have a chance. I never had stability in my life I was always like a feather in the wind

[formflier]

 I never had stability in my life I was always like a feather in the wind

This feeling is something to be tender about.  On the one hand, your wife wants stability.  On the other hand, she doesn't know what that feels like and when stressed will go back to old habits.

Just be aware.

FF

[UnfadingLife]

This feeling is something to be tender about.  On the one hand, your wife wants stability.  On the other hand, she doesn't know what that feels like and when stressed will go back to old habits.

What about HIS feelings and needs?  You get to the point where awareness  is no longer an excuse for their behavior!  We are always putting their feelings ahead of ours but when we need them, they are the farthest away.

[formflier]

What about HIS feelings and needs?  You get to the point where awareness  is no longer an excuse for their behavior!  We are always putting their feelings ahead of ours but when we need them, they are the farthest away.

Yep... .this is the frustrating aspect of a choice to remain in a r/s with a pwBPD.  As the emotionally healthy person, you have to take the lead and consider everyone's feelings when making wise decisions.

Usually, the best way to get your feelings and needs satisfied is to reduce the temperature in the relationship.  A non can usually accomplish this by wise application of the tools and techniques that we teach here.

But, you observation is valid, it does seem that others needs continue to get put before us.  Boundaries and being deliberate about self care will help in this area.

FF

[byfaith]

FF,

From what I described, in your opinion, does it sound like I applied some tools well? I want to think I am getting better at this.

Cat,

I read all of your points. I still have all of these feelings at times. I think for the most part though I am in the 5-8 range

[formflier]

I think so... .

I'm more interested in your heart (your intention) rather than what actually comes out of your mouth or what your behavior actually is.  Not saying behavior isn't important.  Practicing behavior is important.

Lasting change comes when (for instance) you determine to be open, present, non-judgmental and ready to listen to whatever non-abusive stuff comes out of your wife's mouth.

That you can do all that, while at the same time having a heart that says "I'm for you... I'm in your corner... ."

At the end of the entire story... .rather than thinking of a solution... .your soul is saying "That must have been really hard to go through... ."

Note:  I'm not saying I'm solid on this either... .but this is where I am going. 

FF

[Skip]

Huge steps forward, FF.

 

[flourdust]

1. Feeling angry that my spouse is being so unreasonable
2. Being absolutely confused how our conversations get so offtrack and emotional
3. Realizing that the closeness we once felt was partially real and partially a mirage
4. Feeling grief at "losing" the relationship I thought I had
5. Being overwhelmed at learning I had to learn so much to be able to communicate with him
6. Feeling angry that I had to do so much work while he could run rampant with his crazy
7. Getting over the buildup of resentment I'd been collecting for many years
8. Developing patience and understanding for him

That's very nice, Cat. I think I made it to step 6, then I branched off at step 7a. ":)ecided that I wasn't willing to sacrifice so much for the rest of my life" which led to step 8a "Began thoughtfully and calmly preparing for divorce."

[formflier]

Good work, FF and byfaith! Thank you for posting this, FF, it was inspirational reading it. You're getting excellent help from your psychologist.

Yes... and I would add bpdfamily to this.  Here is why both are helpful and work together.

bpdfamily is excellent to build a "base knowledge" of BPD type behaviors and the proper use and understanding of the associated terms.  This makes conversations with the P go much quicker and with much less ambiguity.

For instance, when she was trying to understand my wife's paranoia and how it has gotten better.  I said "I used to prove my wife's theories wrong, which I believe invalidated her, and led to the next theory getting bigger.  Once I learned to stop invalidating, the severity of the theories and any associated acting out, died down considerably"

P quickly got on board with the big theory and offered some small tactical tweaks based on what I said and the one time she saw my wife in action (acting out the murder by sex toy plot... .   )

In a recent session I showed up and said "Today I think it would be helpful for you to help me validate more effectively, using recent real examples"

She readily agreed that this was helpful to my family and I would play the role of my wife and she would play the role of me.  I would say something outrageous and she would validate.  We would do that a couple times and then switch.  She would "come at me" with various things and I would validate.  All based on things that happened in the last few days.

Sure... .many times I wouldn't get it right so we would stop, talk about what I was thinking and how I formulated what came out of my mouth and compare that to what she was looking for.

8. Developing patience and understanding for him


Formflier, I see you at step #8.  

Yes... .I agree this is where I am at.  I think it is critical to understand why I am here.  I believe being here is the healthiest option for my entire family (me included) and gives the best structure (and therefore the best chance) for my wife and kids to do their own personal growth work (maturing).

For this, structure=boundaries. 

The nuance I am trying to work with is when I lean more toward boundaries and when towards validation and acceptance.

I'm going to post a separate thread that just happened today, where I clearly picked boundaries and my wife was clearly not happy.  I let her sort it out and it appears to me, we are all better for it.

Keep the thread going! 

FF

[formflier]

A recent exercise the P had me do, helped my empathy for my wife... .immensely.


We drew out a family tree and listed all the dysfunction.  While I knew all the stories, I had never put it together in a visual format.

On the mom and dad side there were scoundrel men that took advantage of the women.  So, the grandfather on the mom and dad side were really bad... .and completely unrepentant.

The women on both sides all have the basic "men are scum" attitude, and I can see why.

That is my wife's issue to overcome, or not.  But I believe I have a clear view of how I can be supportive of my wife if she chooses to address this and if she chooses to ignore it.

FF