Not All Those Who Wander Are Lost

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi PnC! 

I guess that I should point out that I'm not taking this trip by myself. The woman that I have been seeing is also going. Her involvement is what made me start to realize all of this. She is doing, essentially, everything that my x used to do with regard to planning a trip. My response to her is completely different than it was to my x though. That's what made me start to examine what is going on.

I was watching the new woman go through the same types of steps that my x went through, so I just assumed that is what brought up the memories. But, then, when I started to miss my x rather than be grateful for the person who standing in front of me, I decided that I needed to take a closer look at it all.

Out of all of this, I have also discovered that part of my fascination and attraction to my x results from her being a puzzle that I'll never be able to solve. This breaks down into a few parts; one being the familiar delusion that I'm not good enough because I cannot know the unknowable. My innate curiosity kicks in and I start to, habitually, search for answers.

Another thing that came to the forefront of my attention because of all of this is my need for high sensations. According to my therapist, I'm an adrenaline junkie. She believes that it is because I spent my formative years with my FOO in chaos and under constant stimulation. As a result, I seek it out now... .I run to intense, chaotic situations.

Anyway, so I'm watching the new woman do all of the wonderful things that my x used to do, but I felt nothing as a result. I just kept missing my x. But, it isn't the x that I miss, it's the intensity and energy.

[Meili]

Hi PnC! 

I guess that I should point out that I'm not taking this trip by myself. The woman that I have been seeing is also going. Her involvement is what made me start to realize all of this. She is doing, essentially, everything that my x used to do with regard to planning a trip. My response to her is completely different than it was to my x though. That's what made me start to examine what is going on.

I was watching the new woman go through the same types of steps that my x went through, so I just assumed that is what brought up the memories. But, then, when I started to miss my x rather than be grateful for the person who standing in front of me, I decided that I needed to take a closer look at it all.

Out of all of this, I have also discovered that part of my fascination and attraction to my x results from her being a puzzle that I'll never be able to solve. This breaks down into a few parts; one being the familiar delusion that I'm not good enough because I cannot know the unknowable. My innate curiosity kicks in and I start to, habitually, search for answers.

Another thing that came to the forefront of my attention because of all of this is my need for high sensations. According to my therapist, I'm an adrenaline junkie. She believes that it is because I spent my formative years with my FOO in chaos and under constant stimulation. As a result, I seek it out now... .I run to intense, chaotic situations.

Anyway, so I'm watching the new woman do all of the wonderful things that my x used to do, but I felt nothing as a result. I just kept missing my x. But, it isn't the x that I miss, it's the intensity and energy.

[patientandclear]

Interesting. Yes; I'm familiar with the empty/blank feeling inside in response to a new potential partner doing the things that we might have said we wanted. It makes me wonder if my relationship receptors are just too fried now. And other reflections.

My conclusion is that I do miss my ex, himself, as a person. He was that interesting to me before he started to be an unsolvable puzzle though I know what you mean about that, too.

Unfortunately, his spectacular good aspects come attached to dynamics I can't participate in without betraying myself. He used to call it "tragic" and I guess I am now going to agree. It is tragic. I used to reject that because if you see a tragedy right in front of you about to unfold, you should avoid it ... .But I don't think we can. I am me, he is him, they don't work together. But under all the admitted temptation to solve puzzles, soothe past hurts by not allowing this to fall apart, any injury in me that caused me to care more than made sense on the merits ... .I do miss him, the actual him.

Your analysis of what is going on for you and your ability to look dispassionately at your emotions is always illuminating. Thank you for the good example!

[Meili]

Yeah, I hear ya PnC; not all was bad. There was a lot of good that came with my x as well. I think that's one of the things that keeps us hooked. I used to think that she showed me who I wanted to be. What I later discovered was that she showed me who I could be.

During the idealization phases, she was my biggest cheerleader and I accomplished more in my life that I actually wanted to accomplish than I ever had before. I was amazed as I watched myself doing things that I had only dreamed of in the past. It was so energizing! The more I did, the more energy I had. Businesses got started. New motorcycles were purchased (for those that don't know me, saying that motorcycles are a HUGE part of my life is an understatement), trips were taken, things seen, people met, and all sorts of other things that I never would have dared prior to meeting my x.

What's really cool about all of that is that it wasn't her... .she didn't do those things... .she didn't even facilitate them. She simply idealized me by showing me the me that I wanted to see. Now that I know that what I was seeing was a reflection of myself, I know that I am capable of all of those things and I don't need anyone else to do them for me. I don't need someone to give me permission, and I don't need someone to tell me that I'm capable.

Another interesting byproduct of this has been noted; I still want to share all of these things with my x because I still want her to be proud of me. I still long to show those who abused me in my past that I am capable and good enough. My wanting to share each new discovery (whether internal or some place that I go or thing that I see or experience) with either my uBPDexgf or my dBPDexw is simply because I want them to be proud of me, the things that I've accomplished and all that goes with it.

In the past, I would have argued that the best revenge is success. In the case of these two woman (and, if I'm honest with myself, I can throw my mother in the mix), I'm not sure that I'll ever feel successful. I fear that I will forever be chasing the dream of doing something that makes them reach out to me and tell me that they are proud to have had me in their lives.

[Grey Kitty]

I still want to share all of these things with my x because I still want her to be proud of me. I still long to show those who abused me in my past that I am capable and good enough. My wanting to share each new discovery (whether internal or some place that I go or thing that I see or experience) with either my uBPDexgf or my dBPDexw is simply because I want them to be proud of me, the things that I've accomplished and all that goes with it.

That's a good realization, and a similar one is hitting me too.

I've been focusing my life on working on my boat and sailing it, which was something I shared with stbexwife, and then did on my own (successfully) in the aftermath of our breakup. I've been depressed, and fallen into a rut and gotten stuck for a few months on it right now, and what's really interesting for me is how I felt about my life and stbexwife's judgement of it.

When I was with stbexwife, we had a LOT of control battles over this stuff, and as I developed a backbone and boundaries against the abuse, the outcome of some of the battles changed, but they still underlied things.

When I was succeeding at it, I wanted to enjoy my success, and kept quiet about it around her. My excuse was that I didn't want to talk up the boat when assigning a value to it as part of our separation was still an unresolved conflict, and I didn't want to work against my own interests in the negotiation. I think the truth was that it was MY success, and I didn't really want to share it with her, as I didn't trust her, and was semi-afraid that I would lose myself or some part of me to her if I opened up to her.

Now I'm not succeeding at it, by my own definition, and ESPECIALLY, by her definition, and I feel ashamed of myself, and don't trust her to be gentle with me while I'm in this state.

I've been separated for a couple years now, and I've successfully fought the urge to share my successes and my failures with stbexwife. It gets easier to fight, but it doesn't go away. Perhaps I'm lucky that I don't spend time in person with her very often.

Thanks for reminding me to think about all this.

In the case of these two woman (and, if I'm honest with myself, I can throw my mother in the mix), I'm not sure that I'll ever feel successful. I fear that I will forever be chasing the dream of doing something that makes them reach out to me and tell me that they are proud to have had me in their lives.

I hear ya. And yeah, I've got patterns that go back to my mother, and school as well. In my case, I'm not quite sure I can articulate what it is that I want / what I'm chasing. It isn't quite as you put it though. Perhaps because my parents did treat me well, at the surface, and the deeper level was one where they simply weren't available much beyond physical support for me, so I'm having trouble saying what I missed out on or what I'm seeking that I can't seem to find.

[Meili]

Well, today I heard from the x that brought me to these boards for the first time since I ended things nearly six months ago. I'm going to assume that it was a fishing expedition to find out if I have her blocked and still have any pictures of her. But, I'm not writing this about the contact, I'm writing about my response to it.

I'm not sure what I expected would happen if I ever heard from her again, but when I first saw her name pop-up to let me know I had an email, I felt sick to my stomach. I responded to her and was friendly and cordial.

The whole thing made me a bit uneasy. It was a reminder of what our relationship was actually like (as opposed to the rose-tinted visions that dance through my mind from time to time).

Part of me wanted to chat with her to find out how her life is going, the other part just wanted to ignore her. Trying not to give in to impulsivity either way, I took the middle road and, as I said, responded in a nice way.

For about 3 minutes after the exchange, I found myself wanting to hear more from her. That faded though and I became relieved that it was over. It was a reminder of how far I've come, but also how far I still have to go in my healing process.

[purekalm]

Hey again Meili,

but when I first saw her name pop-up to let me know I had an email, I felt sick to my stomach.

I completely understand how you feel here. I have the same experiences when something reminds me of my childhood as well as the rare times the ex contacts me to talk to our son. It's like our own bodies are revolting at having contact that caused us so much duress/pain.

For about 3 minutes after the exchange, I found myself wanting to hear more from her. That faded though and I became relieved that it was over. It was a reminder of how far I've come, but also how far I still have to go in my healing process.

This is great! It's always nice to see when you're moving forward, even if you're not where you want to be yet. I'm glad you keep coming back to the boards and updating us. It's awesome to see in real time the effects of posting, getting help and working it all out in your life. I too, every once in a while, want to know how things are, but I don't act on it and I'm glad that I don't because like you, I know exactly where that path would lead.

  Meili

Purekalm

[Meili]

  PK!

I still post about things that are going on in my world as they have to do with my relationships and recovery from things. Fortunately, most of the time, there is little to nothing to write about.

Understanding the what's and why's behind it all has been a big help to me. Like, since I posted yesterday, I've spent far more time than I want to admit thinking about the conversation; wondering what was actually behind it on both sides; and what, if anything, I want to do in regards to my x now. Because I understand that all of this is wrapped up in self-esteem issues (still wanting to feel that I'm "good enough" where she is concerned), I am able to practice self-compassion (I am not beating myself up for having the desire to believe that I'm "good enough" for her). It allows me understand that the desire that I have to continue to communicate with her at this point is rooted in the "good enough" thoughts.

That being said, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I still miss the good things about my x. That's what I'm struggling with today.

It's really sad. From an outside perspective, I have a very good life and almost everything that I want. About a year from now, I'll be leaving on an adventure that entails my dream job. I have friends and people who truly care about me. I live in a comfortable house with almost all of the material possessions that I want. Yet, I still long for my x and the good parts.

There are days that I wonder if I would go back to tolerating the bad treatment and the lack of commonalities between us in order to have the good parts again? I remind myself that she isn't the only woman on the planet who has those good parts. Sometimes it settles the thoughts, sometimes not.

[purekalm]

Hey Meili,

Fortunately, most of the time, there is little to nothing to write about.

I hear you! It's always good when the general atmosphere isn't riddled with chaos and drama. 

It allows me understand that the desire that I have to continue to communicate with her at this point is rooted in the "good enough" thoughts.

I can see that. At least you recognize this and have been able to not act on it.

That being said, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I still miss the good things about my x. That's what I'm struggling with today. ... .There are days that I wonder if I would go back to tolerating the bad treatment and the lack of commonalities between us in order to have the good parts again? I remind myself that she isn't the only woman on the planet who has those good parts. Sometimes it settles the thoughts, sometimes not.

I think it's normal to miss the 'good things' here and there. I mean, especially with those of us who don't have a whole lot of good memories to go around. I myself have just been going through this this week with my mom, of all people, constantly mentioning my ex and so it made me think of him eventually and there was definitely a longing for the few 'good things'. I won't act on it in any way, but I understand how you feel.   

It's good to know you have a way to try and bring yourself to the present and accept that the good can't come without the bad. Besides the fact that you are happy without her. For me, I know he was a person in pain and couldn't figure himself out though I tried my best to help him. I take that into consideration, but, he hurt me very deeply and our son and though I forgive him I will not put myself back in that situation in any way. I may not have a pinch of what you have, but I can't do it. Also, please don't beat yourself up because you do have 'almost everything that you want' and are still thinking of the good things. It happens. You're being real and honest, showing your emotion while also being rational and logical in the realization that she's not the only one who has those good parts. 

Purekalm

[Meili]

The past few days have been really hard to keep focused on my future and release my past. I have some big things happening right now (more on that in the future, I promise) and, while incredibly exciting, they have caused me a lot of stress and anxiety.

This has caused old habitual thinking to rear it's ugly head. A lot of self-doubt and negative self-talk has been going on. Things like, "What makes you think that you can do that?" Words that my younger self heard far too often from those who were supposed to be my caretakers. I'm doing my best to soothe my inner child and let Little Meili know that he's unique, strong and capable of more than they ever gave me credit for.

That, combined with stuff going on at work that has been a slap-in-the-face reminder of my life with my x not that long ago, have created a dark place for me.

Add to that, my friends feeling compelled to continue to talk to me about my x and tell me about her current goings on and relationship, my depression has shown up again. Struggling with it all... .but making it through.

It's interesting to find out that my x is still keeping tabs on me. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Mostly, I don't care; but it also makes me sad.

[foggydew]

Change... .discomfort and self doubt. They always seem to come together. But you are here, you have documented your progress exceedingly well - and only fools never doubt themselves in such situations. Freeze, unfreeze, refreeze. Meili can do it, has done it, and has shown the way to many others. How many people can say that? And your ex finds you fascinating enough to keep tabs on you, instead of relegating you to the dust heap of time. These factors all seem to point to real success, real development. Old habitual thinking is just that, old and habitual... and you even realise this? Impressive. And you publish your thoughts about it on here? What more can I say?
This combining the past with the present is something I am struggling with at the moment, but I feel it has to be done - you can't forget or ignore the past and you have to incorporate it into your picture of yourself now... and what you will become in the future. Accept what has happened, accept what it has made you, and accept it is going to influence you to some extent in the future. For me, it feels very uncomfortable - going back to my old patterns of thinking and behaving seems much easier.
Congratulations, Meili. And thank you for letting us accompany you a bit of the way.

[Meili]

Thank you for the kind words FD. They mean a great deal to me and help me cope with my struggles. 

I agree, the old habits are easier. They don't require strength or work. I'm noticing something now though. By trying to change my old habits, my entire life is changing. The things that I've learned with the bpdfamily have truly caused my life to morph into something that I never thought it could be.

I post to people all of the time about how what is discussed around here changes all of their relationships. I didn't quite grasp the extent of what that meant until the past few days. When I look at where I was, and what I saw as the only possibility for my future and juxtapose that with all of the amazing possibilities that I are before me today, I truly look at it with awe.

I have gone from wishing that I was dead, being in a relationship with someone that I didn't like (and fighting passionately to have that relationship) because I didn't think that I could have anything better, and believing that I would never have anything because I wasn't worth anything; to believing in myself, developing friendships with people who wanted me as their friend not the whatever woman I was dating, and seeing the world as a great opportunity for adventure.

Learning to be empathetic and validate landed me a job offer yesterday for, quite literally, twice what I'm currently earning. I'm not sure what to do with that given my depressed state.

I will also say that learning to pay attention myself has proven infinitely useful. I know that I'm depressed right now, so I can work on that and don't have to be all freaked out when something that causes me stress happens.

All of you who have read my posts, shared your journeys with me, and helped me along the way have been incredible. I've learned so much from you all. Thank you.

[heartandwhole]

Learning to be empathetic and validate landed me a job offer yesterday for, quite literally, twice what I'm currently earning. I'm not sure what to do with that given my depressed state.

    

If you decide you'd like to talk about it in a thread, we're here for you. 

heartandwhole

[Meili]

If you decide you'd like to talk about it in a thread, we're here for you. 

Thanks H&W, I know that you guys are. You all have helped me through so much. Anyone who has read my threads probably knows that I have little trouble talking about how I feel.

I think that the depression is primarily chemical rather than emotional right now. As I've said, I have a great life with only first world problems. I want for almost nothing. I have people making incredible job offers to me, the chance to take an amazing journey, and someone in my life who truly loves me.

The last one is part of the source of my problem as of late however; I feel trapped in a relationship that does not fulfill me. Here's the kicker with that though, and my T and I have talked about this many times, I'm not fulfilled because the relationship is calm, slow, and steady. It's so different from any relationship that I've ever had, it makes me uncomfortable.

This, in turn, triggers my "not good enough" problem. My mind asks, "Why can't you just be happy with what you have? What's wrong with you?"

When that got combined with all of the stuff with my x recently, it hit me hard and I have been struggling to keep present in my thoughts and not allow my past to control.

One more thing got added to that recently, as part of something that I'm working on at work, I had to read text messages from an unfaithful wive to several of her paramours and best friend. The wife sounded, in her messages, far too much like my x. This started questions about things that I'll never know.

The four thought lines (unfulfilled, not good enough, ruminations, and questioning) are hard to combat. One or two of them would be easy for me to deal with, but all four is much harder. It's even worse when my body is feeling run down and lethargic.

[Meili]

Almost two weeks ago now, I posted about my "first world problems," and I know that must have sounded really whiny. As I had said, I was dealing with depression and I still am, but not as severe.

Over the past few days, I've had several people ask me about leading group motorcycle rides again. I had stopped because I just wasn't finding enjoyment in it. Someone just called me and asked if I'd lead a ride for him. It all seems so strange. My "not good enough" response is doing battle with the reality that people seek me out to plan routes and show them things because they truly like what I offer when I do it. After so many years of conditioning, it's really hard for me to accept. I wonder how many other members here have similar experiences and how they combat the taught thought patterns?

It both amuses me and makes me sad when people ask me to plan a ride. My x and I used to do it together. It makes me miss her. I will admit that it amuses me when people that I know, who still ride with her, ask when I'll be leading a ride again so that they can ride with me. (I hate that the motorcycle community here is so tight knit sometimes.)

My T asks me why I still want my life involved with someone who did so much damage in my world? My only response is because I still feel that I need to prove to her that I am "good enough." I know that sounds silly, but it's true and what I battle with every day. I really need to figure out why it is so important to me that she view me as "good enough." I know that it's all in my head, but the thoughts are present.

Any suggestions?

[foggydew]

Meili, that all sounds somehow familiar. Similar things happen to me, where I find it difficult to believe people want what I have to offer. It does seem to be a mind set we have taken on at some point. I'm not totally convinced it all comes from our relationships, though they do have a big influence. Maybe they also trigger something deeper. I didn't find you at all whiny. Do these rides, again and again, until the everyday reality overrides yesterday's loss.
My own strategy is being tested right now... friend keeps texting me about how he is going to go camping with his new girlfriend to the place he and I went together several times, and enjoyed it very much. I'm trying to be sober and normal about it and not be affected, I think it is working.

[onelittleladybug]

Hi Meili

Its been a long time since I was in T. But the best thing my T told me back when was "find something you are passionate about". He went on about a friend of his who was into breeding and riding horses. I cant remember his exact words but he did say that when you have a passion beyond a hobby its more like the essence of you, you are able to stay more balanced. I followed his advice and it has worked for me. I made it a career and right now Im in busy mode with a few new projects and hardly noticing that my pwBPD is now on day 5 of silent treatment. Im having a blast at work and I feel really good about myself right now. Im a designer and maker and my hyperfocus is really useful, as work takes 100% of my attention span when Im on the clock.

So all of my advice to you is coming from this POV. You might say its biased. Im not sure if your T is suggesting you take a step back from your biking community but if that is the case I wholeheartedly disagree. My advice is go even deeper into it; dont avoid the ex and her friends. Embrace the new role you are being given. If she happens to be around I would just go with the flow. I think whats going to happen is that you will become de-sensitized to her presence over time. It might be a bit intense for a while though so just stay focused and "ride it out". Omg Im so funny!

Re. Not feeling worthy or good enough. Can you try sending those thoughts off on vacation for a bit? Someone passed the torch to you, maybe try thinking "obviously they see something I dont see, Im too close so Im going to see if their idea of me is more accurate than my own". Its a way to recycle the feeling of unworthiness into humbleness. Nobody needs you to be a hotshot, you can just transfer your self doubt and shift it somewhere else where it actually ends up working better for you. I think I do this a lot so thats the one thing I can pull out of my head right now.

[Meili]

Thank you both for your responses, support, and insight.

I'm not totally convinced it all comes from our relationships, though they do have a big influence. Maybe they also trigger something deeper.

Oh, I completely agree with this. My family of origin was certainly horrible, but it wasn't only them that instilled these thoughts in my head. I was an awkward child (only recently did I find out that Asperger's has been in play) who wore really thick glasses, had a speech impediment, and was far more interested in science than sports. (For those that don't know, in Texas, USA, sports are like a religion and those that play are worshiped... .those who don't, well, they might as well not exist.) When you combine that with parents who neglected me, so I was always dirty, had ill-fitting clothes, malnutritioned, etc. (I'm sure that you're getting the picture that I'm drawing... .), I was treated as someone who did not deserve to live.

As I matured, I got contacts, spent two years in speech therapy so that I could learn to sound like everyone else, bought my first motorcycle, and started hanging around with the "bad people" so that I could at least feel that I belonged somewhere. This all pushed me further away from my family and they shunned me even more. Society had the same general response as well.

It wasn't until I was 46 years old (yep, this year!) that I learned to take those things that I once considered weaknesses because of how society viewed me and turn them into strengths. For example, my poor vision also allows me to see very tiny things that others cannot without some sort of optical aide, this has allowed me to create beautiful jewelry and do detailed work that others would struggle to accomplish.

I still struggle though. Forty-six years of teaching is hard to unlearn. It doesn't help that sometimes things happen and it all repeats. Recently, someone who has followed me on many rides and who loved riding with me found out about my vision. His stance was, "Meili shouldn't even be riding much less leading anyone. Anyone who would follow him is a fool!" Sad, but true.

But the best thing my T told me back when was "find something you are passionate about".

Passion is a real struggle for me. Existential depression keeps me from truly enjoying anything because I "know" that in the end, nothing really matters. But, I do work hard to do things that I think that I enjoy.

Im not sure if your T is suggesting you take a step back from your biking community but if that is the case I wholeheartedly disagree. My advice is go even deeper into it; dont avoid the ex and her friends. Embrace the new role you are being given. If she happens to be around I would just go with the flow. I think whats going to happen is that you will become de-sensitized to her presence over time.

This is exactly what my former T (she retired) told me to do for the very same reason. It's only by exposure that we de-sensitize ourselves.

That being said, the question about my wanting my x back in my life wasn't about riding, it was about the desire to have a relationship with her still. This happens when I get overwhelmed or deeply depressed. My mind seeks out the familiarity that she provides. She embodies a lifetime of experiences that I have had. However painful things were with her, life was also comfortable because I am so used to things being that way.

It doesn't help that my inner child just wants to be held when I am in that state and she pretty close to my physical ideal, so my mind goes there as well. Just another way of seeking the comfort that I have yet to learn to give myself.

Can you try sending those thoughts off on vacation for a bit?

I do try, that's the combat that I was talking about in my last post - my current world doing battle with my past. I look at all of the support that I receive and faith that others place in me and start to feel better, only to have it all come crashing down because questioning and worrying.

Nobody needs you to be a hotshot, you can just transfer your self doubt and shift it somewhere else where it actually ends up working better for you.

Ah, now see, that would be the trick wouldn't it? But, I have no idea how to make that happen.

[onelittleladybug]

Recently, someone who has followed me on many rides and who loved riding with me found out about my vision. His stance was, "Meili shouldn't even be riding much less leading anyone. Anyone who would follow him is a fool!" Sad, but true.

Apologies in advance for being a little overly honest for a second. But some people are the emotional equivalence of an elephant in a china shop. Even if said tongue in cheek its still not really cool. You have aids to help with your vision, they are as real as that bike youre riding. If you believe the bike you can believe the glasses/contacts. So from where Im standing you have perfect vision.

Stepping off the soapbox... .

Existential depression keeps me from truly enjoying anything because I "know" that in the end, nothing really matters. But, I do work hard to do things that I think that I enjoy.

I actually relate to this. I often have moments of thinking its all just vain. It doesnt help I work in fashion! So it actually really and truly is nothing but vanity. I sometime think the only thing that would make sense is to join the peace corps or go work at an elementary school in in Africa (or other place in need). Lately Ive been thinking though that if I make a difference in the lives of the people around me (and I must be doing something right because theres a small group of people that seems to need a lot from me all the time) then maybe I dont need to move to Africa to do good. This is a new thought for me, a tiny spark. Mostly I think everything is pointless. But I can still get excited, focused, and able to zone out completely at work. Which is a huge blessing in my life.

That being said, the question about my wanting my x back in my life wasn't about riding, it was about the desire to have a relationship with her still. This happens when I get overwhelmed or deeply depressed. My mind seeks out the familiarity that she provides. She embodies a lifetime of experiences that I have had. However painful things were with her, life was also comfortable because I am so used to things being that way.

I have one ex that just took forever to fade away. It took many years. But I can happily say today he is not a part of my current emotional life. He is a part of me, but he doesnt affect my mood in any way anymore.

You mentioned before not being fully content in your current r/s. Im never going to relinquish my position as  ... .But this is a flag. Maybe more orange than red. What is it that is missing for you? Do you think its possible that you can have the r/s you want with your current partner? Personally Im not a fan of settling for. I believe in healthy and fulfilling. I think people often want the same things but are both afraid of bringing it up so nothing happens, things stay the same. Could that be happening?

I do try, that's the combat that I was talking about in my last post - my current world doing battle with my past. I look at all of the support that I receive and faith that others place in me and start to feel better, only to have it all come crashing down because questioning and worrying.

Ah, now see, that would be the trick wouldn't it? But, I have no idea how to make that happen.

I manage to do this sometime and I can only try to describe it: First of all I am going to say that if I saw it as taking on a role I will struggle. Because then it becomes about me. But if I can regard it as a task, it becomes a job/task that needs to be done. Im there, I have a bit of know how. The moment is now. Its just gotta get done. So I dive in and think afterwards. Once Im done I process and then I (me, my ego) is back in the equation. But during the moment I check out emotionally. Something I am able to do and can be detrimental to some situations but useful in others.

Re. breaking taught thought patterns heres a really interesting link I came across yesterday www.theoatmeal.com/comics/believe Its very long but hang in there and read it through. I especially enjoyed the last part where the author starts talking to his amygdala. I think there is something in there that connects to this topic.

[Meili]

I love The Oatmeal (and Simon's Cat, but that's a completely different discussion)! It's funny because nothing in that strip caused any sort of reaction within me until the very end; that part resonated. Being Mindful and Wiseminded is exactly what he was talking about. Listen to the emotions, but do not let them dictate your actions.

Cognitively, I know and understand that it was not a matter of being "good enough" for my x (or anyone else for that matter... I'm the only person that I need to be good enough for). At worst, it wasn't a matter of being enough of anything; but, rather, a matter of compatibility. Two different people seeking two different things.

From the very beginning of my time on these boards, I learned that by accepting her, I accepted all that came with her. It was not a matter of whether or not she was "good enough" for me, it was whether or not I wanted what she had to offer. For the life of me, I cannot apply that same thinking about myself. It isn't a matter of my not being "good enough" for her, my family, society, etc. Some like what I have to offer, some do not. It's a reflection on them, not me. But, as The Oatmeal said, our brains try to fight against thoughts that conflict with our core beliefs. From at least the age of two, I was taught that I didn't matter. It's really hard to overcome that.

Like you, I spend a great deal of time helping others and trying to do some good in the world in an effort to find some meaning for my being here. I've taken that to an unhealthy extreme though and given all of myself in the process. My T and I are working to change that and to find some place for me in my own life.

Without thought, this past weekend, I went right back to old behaviors and abandoned my plans because a friend needed help with something that I happen to be naturally good at. He could have paid someone to do what I did, or he could have done it himself (it wasn't that hard), but looked to me to help and I did it. I struggle with this because, to me, it's like another form of buying friendship. People contact me when they need something from me, not just because I am me. It's not healthy for me to continue doing that.

As for the flag, we can call it a vermilion because that's partway between red and orange, right? I'm not sure that it's as much about her as it is about me. At this point, I'm not sure that I can have the r/s that I want with anyone. I've spend my life in a world of intense chaos. When I am not in that state, I have no clue what to do. Some days I think that I look for things in my r/s to be unhappy about because, well, I am bored.

Please, don't get me wrong, she's a very sweet, loving, and nice woman. But, she's also not without her faults. At least she's making efforts to work on herself and better her life. She also makes a lot of effort to take care of me.

But, I'm a high sensation seeker and she does everything slowly. Because of who I am and how I've lived, I need organization and routine to feel safe and function. She's disorganized and doesn't care about routine. There has been a lot of talk on her part about changing that, but no noticeable effort made. I also struggle with her unkept promises. That one bugs me quite a bit. I need to feel secure and to be able to trust. I don't trust her in any form.

But, I then start to question whether or not, because of my past, I'm being too critical? I know that I'm hypervigilent and constantly expect the worst to happen, so is it me or her? I haven't decided yet.

The real red flag in all of this for me is that for the first time in my life I have a desire to be alone. As I said in a prior post, I feel trapped. I'm struggling to figure out if that's because I, subconsciously, want to seek out the intense chaos that is all too familiar, or is it because I see no point in continuing my relationship? One is a healthy response, the other is not as far as I can tell. But, I'm not quite ready to be alone just yet.

[Meili]

Today, I ran across an old SD card that was in my desk. I popped it into the computer and it was filled with pics of my x, me, the bikes, and our world together. In the past, this would have made me nostalgic and sad. Today, nothing... .total indifference. Well, that's not exactly true, I still think that the dogs are cute and that the bikes looked great together and that made me smile.

It's been such a strange journey going from where I was when I got here to where I am today. I still struggle with some of the old issues, but I'm so much stronger than I was in the past. I've learned so much about myself and what I'm actually capable of achieving. Thanks to all who have gone with and taken me down this path.

As I look at all of it as a whole and the issues that I still struggle with, I can clearly see that those that remain come from very deep within my history. I now know that I can push through them, but I'm hoping that at some point I will be able to overcome them.

I suppose that not being triggered by thoughts or images of my ex is a good start though.

[heartandwhole]

I suppose that not being triggered by thoughts or images of my ex is a good start though.

It really is, Meili    So glad to read this. I remember when I saw some pix of pwBPD and felt... .just fine. I knew then that I had turned the corner, and like you, I still have stuff that comes up related to FOO issues. Do they feel manageable to you?

You've come a long way. I see wide open roads ahead for you. 

heartandwhole

[Meili]

Do they feel manageable to you?

Thank you H&W.

Yes and no. Like yesterday, I couldn't bring myself to leave the house after I got home for work. I didn't have any place that I needed to go, but I've been working on doing things for fun again. After several hours, I finally just forced myself to go out. I met up with friends and had a great time.

The hangup was because of the need part. It's a self-care and self-worth issue. Deeply engrained lessons from my youth tell me things like:

• I didn't need to leave the house and therefore it would be irresponsible, a waste of time, etc. for me to do so.
• I don't deserve to have fun. If I'm not doing something for someone else, I'm wasting time.
• Something is only worth doing if another benefits from it, otherwise I'm just taking up space on the planet and using resources that another could use.

While I know that these things are untrue, I thoughts still take place somewhere deep in my mind. I don't even realize that I'm having them. Yesterday, it took my almost having a panic attack for me to realize what was actually going on. At that point, I convinced myself that I did, indeed, need to leave the house.

[Meili]

Well, I just had a random bit of weirdness from my x. Apparently, she has added me to her online calendar. Strange... .

For a few moments, I had that sinking feeling in my stomach and questions like "Why did she do that?" "Is she trying to get my attention?" "Should I ask her if it's a mistake?" etc. etc. etc.

I decided that none of that really matters. She did it for whatever reason and I'll probably never know why. Nothing was populated on the calendar, so it doesn't matter at all.

It does bother me that seeing that she added me excited me.

[onelittleladybug]

Well, I just had a random bit of weirdness from my x. Apparently, she has added me to her online calendar. Strange... .

For a few moments, I had that sinking feeling in my stomach and questions like "Why did she do that?" "Is she trying to get my attention?" "Should I ask her if it's a mistake?" etc. etc. etc.

IMO its a passive aggressive way to test if you are open to contact. Kinda like "oops my phone accidentally dialed you, better hang up now and see if you will call back". The game is if you are interested and open you will call back, if not it means you are not interested/open.

Butt dials do happen but I dont think anyone "butt adds" someone to their calendar.

It does bother me that seeing that she added me excited me.

I think exes will always trigger something in us, which is why its best to leave them alone. But I also think that when you are in a really good place in life, work, love etc those people stop affecting you the way they did.

[foggydew]

I decided that none of that really matters. She did it for whatever reason and I'll probably never know why. Nothing was populated on the calendar, so it doesn't matter at all.

Right, Meili. It doesn't matter at all. Good to hear that you are ok and still doing well, as this post shows. Still sensitive, still questioning yourself. But getting on. As I said, it is good to read you again, and I wish you all the best!

[Meili]

Thank you both for your replies.

The event has caused me to think a lot. It is nice to see that, while it still effected and bothered me, I have grown enough to respond differently.

I didn't instantly do reach out to ask her what was behind this... .no matter how much I wanted to at first.

It also reminded me of all that has happened over the past year. The pain that I experienced, the loneliness, finding my footing, the beginnings of recovery, and figuring out what it is that I truly want in life.

For a long time now, I've written about the gift that my x gave me and that I owe her a lot. This still holds true. I never would have gotten to where I am today if she had not come into my life. I would not have stopped to figure out who I really am and what is important to me.

It is nice to know that she still thinks of me. It helps me know that I was, in fact, good enough... .

[foggydew]

I am very touched that you can see through all the pain and confusion to appreciate what she gave you, brought into your life. You present such a rounded, balanced, complete picture - from being so affected through to recovery and finally the ability to look back and appreciate - I find this a very mature approach. I'm happy for you.

[Meili]

Thank you FD. The balance is hard to maintain. I'm fighting decades of bad teaching. When I get overwhelmed or over-stressed, I still want to reach for what is so familiar to me because the chaos and pain became comfortable over the years. It was manageable whereas the new things that are causing the emotions are new and unknown. New coping mechanisms are having to be developed.

I've never seen the point in playing the victim when it comes to my romantic relationships. No one forced me into them, or made me stay. I could have walked away from any of them at any time. I chose to not to do so. Any treatment that was repeated was something that I allowed. That was a harsh truth that I had to face when I was young adult. The question for me became why?

That answer was something that I chose to ignore for nearly 20 years. With the notable exceptions of my dBPDexw and uBPDexgf, most of my relationships were long and boring. Both partners became frustrated and angry. I've spoke to several of my exes and they have confirmed that they saw things in me that I refused to see and stayed with me hoping to draw those things out. They became frustrated and angry in the process. I felt the same way because of codependency issues. This would cause things to spiral and ultimately end the relationship.

A couple of the exes have followed my life over the years and have seen the changes. More than one would give our relationship another shot if I wanted. My dBPDexw and I even talked about doing just that. I am that happy that didn't happen.

To get here, I had to learn that it was my fear of abandonment (as opposed to just separation anxiety - I wrote a long post once about the difference between the two) caused by C-PTSD that brought me to this place. It kept me in toxic relationships. It's really hard to blame someone else when it is your own fears that are your motivation.

My uBPDexgf is truly a wonderful woman that I will always love deeply. My insecurities did as much damage to the relationship as hers. Wanting the traits that she possesses in a woman that I'm involved with meant that I had to overcome those insecurities or I would just cause damage to the next relationship. Or, worse, enter yet another relationship with someone that I didn't truly want to be involved with just so that I didn't have to face being alone and continuing the cycle of my past.

[heartandwhole]

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