Fed up with "tools".

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I'm fed up. This isn't where I have posted before. Well in a very long time anyway. So I have a very basic question and I know the answer may vary greatly but I'm very tired of having to work harder than my pwBPD to communicate. The "tools" which are great for some who are new to this or have more invested (ie kids) or what have you. My question is simple. If I stop using any tools to validate and empathize (aside form actually being cruel of course) what happens? Obviously an extinction burst and rage but will it be the final one and they finally leave?

Sorry I know I should probably be the one that is the mature one and leaves and but I want her to. I want her to be done. She already claims she has little to no feelings. Or I want to just not come home one day. Leave with out telling her face to face. But that seems childish also. I'm just so done. Emotionally done.

[Cipher13]

I'm fed up. This isn't where I have posted before. Well in a very long time anyway. So I have a very basic question and I know the answer may vary greatly but I'm very tired of having to work harder than my pwBPD to communicate. The "tools" which are great for some who are new to this or have more invested (ie kids) or what have you. My question is simple. If I stop using any tools to validate and empathize (aside form actually being cruel of course) what happens? Obviously an extinction burst and rage but will it be the final one and they finally leave?

Sorry I know I should probably be the one that is the mature one and leaves and but I want her to. I want her to be done. She already claims she has little to no feelings. Or I want to just not come home one day. Leave with out telling her face to face. But that seems childish also. I'm just so done. Emotionally done.

[Wize]

Either you realize the relationship is over or you don't. Either you understand that what is best for you is to be done with the relationship or you don't.  It's your choice not hers.  If you don't know if you want the relationship to be over then there's a different board for that.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Cipher, check out this brilliance from gameover.  I will continue it in my next reply because this exceeds the limit.  Link to original post:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281522.msg12659961#msg12659961   

So you've been painted black.  Nothing's worse than being devalued by the person who once loved you (especially when they attempt to ruin your reputation).  Over and over again I've seen people on these boards agonize over what their BPD exes think about them--are you split black? white? what are they telling your friends? do they want to recycle?

Even though you know they're mentally ill, you still don't want them to think badly about you.

All of her other exes were horrible, horrible people (right?  ), and now you've joined their ranks.  Even though you went above and beyond and did everything you could.  But what did all of these horrible, horrible people have in common (besides dating her)? They probably reacted poorly (or naturally, from a NON perspective) to the cheating/sudden break up--they tried to defend themselves, using reality  , and tried to convince their BPD partner that they were making a mistake. They tried to hold the BPD accountable.

In short, they didn't respect the BPDness of the BPD.  But what if you could out-BPD the BPD and use their tactics (devaluation, projection, idealization, etc.) to reverse the situation and make the breakup a positive, validating experience for the BPD?

Depending on several factors--where you are in the breakup process, whether you're still in contact, if your BPD has any level of respect for you, etc.--this guide may not work for you.  But basically, here are the things I did that allowed me to become my BPDexgf's first 'Split-White Ex' and saved my reputation.   

1. You're gonna be the bad guy.  Embrace it.  When the breakup happens, devalue yourself faster than she can devalue you.  Validate her decision.  Don't try to defend yourself.  It'll catch her off guard, and may cause her to recant some of her attacks and reverse her opinions.

BPDexgf:  All we do is fight.

gamover:  You're right.  We've done nothing but fight the past month.

BPDexgf:  But we really haven't--

gamover:  You're making the right decision--I'm a terrible boyfriend.  I tried, but you gave me all the love you had and I didn't know how to give it back.  I'm bad for you, BPDexgf.  I don't know how you put up with me for so long.  I admire you for having the strength to walk away.

BPDexgf:  [crying] But it was perfect.

2.  Project her issues back onto yourself.  She's gonna do it anyway; beat her to it.  Make her think you're just like her (except don't pretend you lied or cheated  ).  Think of it as mirroring a reverse projection.

gameover:  I tried to control you.  That was wrong.  I don't know why I did it--I tried to... .absorb you, make you part of myself.  Of everything, I'm sorry for robbing you of your independence.

BPDexgf:  I was controlling.

gameover:  I tried to be the perfect man for you.  I wanted to--but the truth is, I'm like an eight year-old stuck inside an adult's body... .I probably sound crazy.

BPDexgf:  [looking guilty] You're overthinking everything... .

3.  Validate her and idealize the relationship.  Tell her how much you have valued your time together (because for a lot of that time you did).  Let her know she's been a wonderful girlfriend (because a lot of the time she was).  Let her keep the fantasy--that was the part she wanted you to value, anyway. 

gameover:  God, it feels like our relationship was a movie.

BPDexgf:  What do you mean?

gameover:  It just felt so magical--like too good to be true.

BPDexgf:  [thinking for a moment] We just had a really long honeymoon.

4.  Don't try to hold her accountable.  You can't.  Don't bother.  She'll never accept it.  She already blames herself.  I know after she broke up with me (but we were still supposed to be sexually exclusive  ) my BPDexgf hooked up with her ex and didn't tell me.  Game over, for me.  Part of her knows I know--all of the sudden I refuse to sleep with her and am no longer willing to work on a relationship.  But she doesn't know I know for sure--because I haven't reacted emotionally.  I haven't accused her or tried to make her feel guilty; I haven't even mentioned it.  It keeps her on her toes.  She's waiting for me to blow up on her and make her feel worthless, so she can paint me black.  I don't need to do that.  And she's my ex anyway.

5.  Don't engage her attacks.  If she gets off base, don't give her a reaction.  That includes defending yourself.  If she gets emotional, let her.

Things I ignored:

"You never really cared about me."

"Why won't you fight for me?"

"I'll never trust you again."

"I thought you were the man I was going to marry."

Occasionally, I'd give her a "Wamp, wamp."  She didn't pursue any of these further.

6.  Damage control.  My ex and I have a ton of mutual friends and acquaintances.  Do you know what I've told all of them about the breakup? 

"I take full responsibility.  If you feel the need to take sides, take her side.  She needs friends right now."

Even if she does try a smear campaign (though after steps 1-5, she is neutral/idealizing towards me) I've already shown these people that I'm bigger than the blame game.  If they try to dig for juicy info, I just repeat myself.  When/if she talks to them, they're already predisposed to think highly of me and if she tries to blame things on me, it makes her look suspect.

I know this all sounds like a pain in the butt. And it might not feel honest to you.  But the truth is, in her eyes, this is the truth.  And chances are you were controlling, you were pretending to be perfect, you were trying to absorb her, you were failing to recognize her independence, you were acting out from your inner child.  Mostly you were trying to project your reality onto her.  Am I right? NON reality is like gaslighting to a BPD.  Same thing.  Her reality is her reality.  As the "mentally healthy" person you might as well own your part in the dysfunctional relationship.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Here's the rest from gameover.  Again, link to original post is https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281522.msg12659961#msg12659961 

Closure: Using these principles, I was able to get my BPDexgf to admit:

"It's not you--I do this in all my relationships.  Even my close friends.  I don't know why... ."

"I'm sorry I'm crazy."

"We've had so much fun."

"It's both of our faults."

"I'm so glad you're not angry at me."

"I'll always care about you."  (She knows love is off the table).

Basically, she's super comfortable with me now.  She knows I'm not a threat.  She knows we can be friends from a distance, but that I have to "save myself" (God's honest truth!).  She knows I'm not going to judge her.  She knows that I value our memories--because I do.  She knows I value myself too much to try to hurt her.  And that I respect myself too much to try to recycle.  And deep down, she knows I understand her issue.  And if she ever asks, I'll point her towards DBT.

Bonus:  Other lines that got a positive response: 

"I'm gonna be that Drake-type ex--always calling your phone late at night and getting emotional." (Humor is a big plus! Leave the emotions/anger to her.)

"Just because something doesn't last, doesn't mean they wasn't perfect."  (Admit it, they were perfect for a while.)

[once removed]

If I stop using any tools to validate and empathize (aside form actually being cruel of course) what happens? Obviously an extinction burst and rage but will it be the final one and they finally leave?

this is a gamble. if its not the final one (unpredictable) what then? potentially, a bad situation only gets worse.

Sorry I know I should probably be the one that is the mature one and leaves and but I want her to. I want her to be done.

can you elaborate on this? it may make how to proceed a bit clearer for us and you.

[Meili]

Oddly enough, I did a lot of what gameover wrote also. It seemed to make the transition much smoother. To my knowledge, my x hasn't painted me black. Many mutual friends are still there. New mutual acquaintances have been added. It wasn't intentional or a game, it is just how things played out for us. As a result, there is something of a friendship forming between my x and me.

I think that trying to "beat them at their own game" is just asking for trouble though. pwBPD are utilizing primal survival skills. They have been using them for a long time too. And, they are masters at reading us. That is not a battle that I would personally want to engage in.

I will admit that I did want my x to leave me at one point. It would have been so much simpler in my mind at the time. I would have been able to hold my head high and feel vindicated because I had truly done all that I could. What I discovered is that is just as much a fantasy as all of the rest of it.

[Lilyroze]

  Cipher 13,

Is it the tools you are fed up with or the lack of someone meeting you half way?

 I ask as I wanted to be angry at the tools as well at one point, didn't want to be the bigger one anymore as always had to. Quite frankly I loved being angry for a day at the tools. Why? Because I could never be angry at two people who needed the tools... .

I am not saying this is the case for you. Just brought up as a possibility.

Once I could put a name to this my life changed so much for the better. I always took the rages, blame, craziness, deregulation and always tried to be the bigger one, make it better, try harder. I was the scape goat. I hurt so much inside.

 Sure I could be angry inside, hurt, cry, and sometimes not even know why I was so sad. Then the magic day of learning what this was, putting a name to it, tools. Wonderful... .Then trying tools and see the same garbage, well frustrating.

I finally realized they didn't want boundaries or tools they wanted the scape goat back. They ( Mom and sbxUNBPD) didn't want to meet half way, they didn't want to talk about it ( too much work, and no they don't want to take blame). Why would they do that? They had it easy all these years, someone to fix everything, take all responsibility, be the caretaker. Easy to find another scape goat... .LOL

So I appreciate the board, articles, tools and learning all over these years will help me deal with them, be a better person, have a better realtionship in future. But won't fix it with them as they are too ingrained in the concept of never wrong, and rages. Too easy for them to find another scape goat. My sbx has, and I am over the moon let her deal with it now... .hehe sweet revenge that I didn't do. They both will implode as they are BPD/NPD. Do I wish it, no never want anyone hurt but their doing and they will have to live with it.

So again if you can get her to work with you, get help, meet you half way great. Tools or not the BPD person has responsibility to bring something to the table, trying, learning, getting help. If not... .well actions speak louder then words. It can't be all on you anymore.

If not then you need to decide with all you have done, grown, learned is it time to find someone that will appreciate you for you, and all you are.

Self love, self respect start with you. So start with your goals, set boundaries, heal, and find peace on your journey.

[fromheeltoheal]

My question is simple. If I stop using any tools to validate and empathize (aside form actually being cruel of course) what happens? Obviously an extinction burst and rage but will it be the final one and they finally leave?

She will feel abandoned; you gave up, you're not trying anymore.  That will be met initially maybe with rage, the manifestation of freaking out, and then testing, to see if an emotional attachment is still in place.  Then a search for another attachment, or increased emphasis on one that is already there, along with more testing of you; borderlines hate to lose an attachment, the worst thing that could ever happen.

I don't know you whole story cipher, but bottom line, act bored, no emotional involvement, and getting pissed off is still emotional involvement, so not that either, just bored, just whatever, just doesn't matter.  That matters massively to a borderline, and she will fix it, one way or the other.

[Cipher13]

I appreciate the responses to this. At the time I posted this I was completely frustrated with having to put so much more effort into this relationship than you would with a non only to still be painted black anyway.

I admit sometimes the "tools" can work especially if applied often and affectively but until it becomes second nature it is just a lot of extra effort to exhaust. basically a lot of work for little reward.

The post from gameover is informative for sure. I'm not exactly there on the level of being able to communicate my feelings much less in the way gameover has presented. I have tried previously and still make attempts to do things similar. More often than not she catches on to it and shuts it down.

I posted this wanting to take the lazy person's way out of this. That's not the right way to go. I feel like I lake the energy for the battle that is needed to make it happen form my end. Again thanks everyone.

[married21years]

from my experience

if you stop using the tools you go back to square one

and it will be held against you

any force to change the pwBPD has a choice

face change and fears or jump ship and change partners

guess what they will chose

sorry  

[fromheeltoheal]

I posted this wanting to take the lazy person's way out of this. That's not the right way to go. I feel like I lake the energy for the battle that is needed to make it happen form my end. Again thanks everyone.

So what are you going to do?

[gotbushels]

Cipher13 I think a lot has happened here on this thread that's useful to you. I've been where you are now in the sense of being sick of putting in so much effort just to get something that looks like normality. I was lucky as her extinction burst on one of my tools (usage of, not stoppage) basically immediately crossed a limit so breaking up with her seemed somewhat straightforward.

If I stop using any tools to validate and empathize (aside form actually being cruel of course) what happens? Obviously an extinction burst and rage but will it be the final one and they finally leave?

In my experience if I stopped using one tool, my ex would start dysregulating. Stop enough tools and I expect they will dysregulate further. If you let her do this, caretaker-you might feel bad and you get stuck again for x months. Figure out what you want before you make any changes, that's more graceful than playing with her by messing around with the tools.

I posted this wanting to take the lazy person's way out of this. That's not the right way to go. I feel like I lake the energy for the battle that is needed to make it happen form my end. Again thanks everyone.

Consider this perspective: it's takes less effort to use tools, than to figure out and choose what's best for you.


Anyway, I encourage you to work at the question fromheeltoheal asked, and I hope things are well with you.