Does my boyfriend even feel anything at all?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hey M-

I realize that I'm self-sabotaging myself in a way as of right now.

You might go a little easy on yourself though.  Going from deeply loving someone, willing to do anything for them, to wanting to remove them entirely from your life is a huge change, a complete change in direction, and that doesn't happen overnight and doesn't happen without a whole lot of emotion.  So maybe you're processing the end of a relationship, and it is a process and it does take some time, instead of self-sabotaging?  Whew... .  that feels a little better?

I can never understand the way BPD's justify and process things. It hurts because my entire message I wrote him is all about how much he hurt me and how I'll still love him. I should stop looking into these things, but as of right now I just can't

BPD is a shame-based disorder, and if he were to take responsibility for his actions it would open a floodgate of shame and he'd drown in it, so borderlines concoct elaborate defense mechanisms to not go there, they can't.

If you're sad, be sad.  What if you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing and are exactly where you're supposed to be, in a very painful situation?  There's no rush on anything, letting go is very difficult, and one day you'll decide you're ready and it's the right thing to do.  Take care of you!

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey M-

I realize that I'm self-sabotaging myself in a way as of right now.

You might go a little easy on yourself though.  Going from deeply loving someone, willing to do anything for them, to wanting to remove them entirely from your life is a huge change, a complete change in direction, and that doesn't happen overnight and doesn't happen without a whole lot of emotion.  So maybe you're processing the end of a relationship, and it is a process and it does take some time, instead of self-sabotaging?  Whew... .  that feels a little better?

I can never understand the way BPD's justify and process things. It hurts because my entire message I wrote him is all about how much he hurt me and how I'll still love him. I should stop looking into these things, but as of right now I just can't

BPD is a shame-based disorder, and if he were to take responsibility for his actions it would open a floodgate of shame and he'd drown in it, so borderlines concoct elaborate defense mechanisms to not go there, they can't.

If you're sad, be sad.  What if you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing and are exactly where you're supposed to be, in a very painful situation?  There's no rush on anything, letting go is very difficult, and one day you'll decide you're ready and it's the right thing to do.  Take care of you!

[Masuimi]

I also feel as if I am attached to this idea of what COULD HAVE BEEN when I was to go to Canada and meet him face-to-face. Would it have been different had I been able to hold him in my arms? Tell him I love him while looking into his eyes and touching his face? Or maybe the attachment would have been even worse considering that physical things would have been coming into play.

Maybe that's my biggest problem. I'm attached to the "what if" because we never got to explore our relationship beyond video cam. We never were able to have the physical connection everyone else here had. I think in a way it may be a good thing because I would speculate the pain to be 20x worse. Maybe I should see it that way?

And thank you fromheeltoheal for giving me a different perspective on it. I must take it one day at a time and take care of myself. I keep thinking that maybe JUST MAYBE he is feeling some sort of grief over losing me, but I suppose it would be nowhere close to what I'm feeling. It's a sad realization. My heart keep going back and forth with my mind. I do love him and I would love if we could work things out BUT it seems as if working things out is impossible because:

1. He cannot take responsibility for the abuse.
2. He can't even acknowledge the abuse and shifts focus onto himself.
3. He avoids serious conversations at all cost. Getting angry with me when I attempt to bring up anything that would bring him SHAME.
4. He doesn't have the mental maturity to have that conversation with me. He'd start saying "WHATEVER! Lalalalalala, shutupppp!" and yes I AM SERIOUS.
5. He'll bring up my faults (even ones in past relationships that I've told him about) just as to justify his actions and make me feel guilty.

[fromheeltoheal]

I also feel as if I am attached to this idea of what COULD HAVE BEEN when I was to go to Canada and meet him face-to-face. Would it have been different had I been able to hold him in my arms? Tell him I love him while looking into his eyes and touching his face?

It would probably have been more intense, and I totally understand your thought process.  And if he exhibits traits of this disorder it wouldn't have changed the progression, just maybe prolonged it.

Don't know if you've read this, or even if you have you might read it again, a lot of us have gotten repeated value from it at this stage.

[Masuimi]

Thank you for that fromheeltoheal,

I have read it before but defiantly needed to see it again. I broke up with him many times in the beginning of our relationship due to my own insecurities and need for control. I know things cannot go back to the way they once were, even when my heart cannot accept it just yet. I played a great hand in the demise of this relationship but I know we are both not all to blame. I will try not to linger on that thought too much.

[fromheeltoheal]

"WHATEVER! Lalalalalala, shutupppp!"

Pfft.  I used to do that when I was about 16, seemed appropriate then.  There's no way to have an adult relationship with that, and unfortunately borderlines get stuck at an emotional age, although their mirroring skills are so good and they parrot "adult" so well that you can't tell for a while.  And it's an ugly realization when we see where someone really is yes?

[Masuimi]

It's a very ugly realization. My heart is hurting and I just want it to go away. Why is it so easy for them to just abandon all attachment and forget? It seems like such an unfair advantage on their part.

I keep hoping that maybe he doesn't have BPD, but too many things are pointing to this being the reality of the situation. I'm sure that this may just be the start of it, as he is only 21. I can't imagine living my entire life having to deal with his constant anger and verbal abuse. Why does it seem that I received the ugly start of it?

[pjstock42]

Why is it so easy for them to just abandon all attachment and forget? It seems like such an unfair advantage on their part.

I think about this every day and many times I wish that I could be as cold and callous as my BPD ex gf, able to pretend like she would love me forever and then just destroy it all through a text message and continue on with life as if nothing had happened.

Here is the thing though, as much as being able to act/think like that would help us right now, is that the kind of person that you would want to be for the rest of your life? Having the ability to concoct wild lies, paint you to black, abandon you like it's nothing etc are not temporary defense mechanisms that these people will ever be able to change or have any regret over, it's the way that they are and it will stay with them forever. For me, as much as I would like the relief that being so coldhearted may provide in the present, I would rather know that I'm a good person and that is something that will be a part of us forever. Feeling sad, angry, confused, lost, hopeless etc. are all normal feelings that caring people experience when going through this. The feelings hurt, they're persistent and all-consuming of your thoughts and I wish every day that I could make them go away but in the end, we're feeling like this because we are emotionally healthy, developed adults who can genuinely care for a person and that is far from a bad thing.

[Masuimi]

Not at all! It just seems like a much better option right now as opposed to the pain that I'm feeling.

I will never be able to understand the things BPD suffers do, and trying will just give me a headache. I just wish I was strong enough to have made the relationship work. I know that's a dangerous thought to have but i just feel like it isn't over - and, this is probably why I haven't closed the line of contact yet.

I'd much rather be a healthy individual capable of giving and receiving love, but these thoughts don't make anything better for me. In sure when I'm in a healthier space I'll be able to smile at the thought, but as of right now it just makes me nauseous.

[fromheeltoheal]

Why is it so easy for them to just abandon all attachment and forget?

Practice, because it's mandatory, like us eating or using the restroom.  And it's mandatory because the alternative, take some responsibility for the relationship's demise and melt into a puddle of shame, is completely unacceptable and hurts so much that it can't be considered.  And borderlines can report that they feel like they literally don't exist without an attachment, so a whole lot of energy and focus needs to be expended to attach to something, which makes a severed attachment not so front-and-center in their consciousness.  And that attachment need not be another romantic relationship M, so don't let your head go there, it could be religion, children, anything that makes the abandonment depression go away.

pj:
I think about this every day and many times I wish that I could be as cold and callous as my BPD ex gf, able to pretend like she would love me forever and then just destroy it all through a text message and continue on with life as if nothing had happened.

M:
It just seems like a much better option right now as opposed to the pain that I'm feeling.

Needing to use projection, splitting, cognitive distortion and whatever else to keep the bad feelings at bay, to the point of hurting lots of people and completely warping reality, and not only that, without constant vigilance the crap creeps in anyway?  Nope, living with the disorder is a living hell.  We don't want that.  Although I realize that it would feel a lot better right now, with emphasis on "right now", because you guys are going to weather this storm, learn and grow, the right way, while a borderline stays stuck.

I will never be able to understand the things BPD suffers do, and trying will just give me a headache.

You could if you wanted to M, folks have spent a lot of time figuring out how borderlines tick, and the info is there if you're into diving into the clinical side of the disorder.  Being an understanding-driven person I needed to do that, and once I understood why she does what she does the confusion disappeared immediately, and then it got fascinating to me.

[Masuimi]

HtoH,

Could an attachment also be to objects? Such as online gaming? My ex would focus all of his time and energy into gaming whenever things would get really bad between us. I noticed that it was one of the only things that brought him comfort, even when growing up.

Living with BPD is a hell, but I am also living with the hell of having to detach myself from someone else's illness. I'm sad and bitter about it. Quite frankly I am teetering back and forth deeply between calling him or keeping my mouth shut today. I don't know what to do.

I noticed that I was extremely happy in sharing what I've learned about BPD and my findings in WHY he was acting the way he was. Today however, I feel nauseated by all the information I am uncovering. It's too much, it's too heavy. I need a break to keep my mind off of things but everything I do reminds me of him.

[fromheeltoheal]

Could an attachment also be to objects? Such as online gaming? My ex would focus all of his time and energy into gaming whenever things would get really bad between us. I noticed that it was one of the only things that brought him comfort, even when growing up.

That sounds more like an escape than an attachment, which could have the same effect, make the bad feelings go away.  An attachment to a borderline is a reenactment of the earliest bond they had with their primary caregiver, usually their mother, the one they never successfully detached from on the way to creating their own "self".  So anything that can provide that sense of fusing of psyches to create one person out of two would work; my ex turned to religion and connected with God on that level, along with very unhealthy relationships with her children, peer to peer instead of parent/child, and that worked to an extent since her relationships with men were always short-lived and volatile.

Living with BPD is a hell, but I am also living with the hell of having to detach myself from someone else's illness. I'm sad and bitter about it. Quite frankly I am teetering back and forth deeply between calling him or keeping my mouth shut today. I don't know what to do.

Yes, although you can detach, he can't, he's stuck with it for life.  

Contacting him will make it worse.  There, I've said it, you're going to do what you're going to do, and I don't really want to say I told you so later, but I will when the time comes.  That's based on my own and many, many other folks here's experience, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I noticed that I was extremely happy in sharing what I've learned about BPD and my findings in WHY he was acting the way he was. Today however, I feel nauseated by all the information I am uncovering. It's too much, it's too heavy. I need a break to keep my mind off of things but everything I do reminds me of him.

Yes, it takes a while to get your head around and is too much in the beginning.  And ultimately we want to shift the focus from our exes to ourselves and from the past to the future, as fast as we can but not too fast, so it may be a good idea to do something that is radically out of your normal routine, and has nothing to do with BPD, to give you a break, then you can dive back in.  Me, I went to Mexico and drank beer on the beach for a week, not too dysfunctional and it worked, then back to work creating the life of our dreams... .

[Masuimi]

I understand. He and his mother had an incredibly difficult relationship. She gave birth to him at 16yo and negelcted him most (if not all) of his childhood up until the time of him being kicked out at 17. His parents were controlling but his mother was especially possessive over he and his brother - not wanting them to go out and make friends as children, or keeping them away from other female family memebers as to stop a bond from forming. He described his mother as being jealous but ultimately very unresponsive, sometimes going for periods of time without talking to him when when they would get into a yelling match. He also hinted at abuse but he didn't want to get into that too much, stating that whatever he received he deserved - he was the difficult child, the problem child, the unwanted first born. He really made me feel such empathy for him (and I still do, very much so).

I know that it will; so instead of caving in and calling him I called my mom and aunt instead. I was able to vent/cry/grieve and they ultimately made me seek out a therapist (I have an appointment tomorrow at 10).

Next week I'll be taking some time out for myself to go and visit my niece and nephew in Washington. Hopefully this will clear my thoughts a little more. I'm still feeling depressed, I still want to contact him, I still want to do MANY things but I realize that the pain is simply temporary. My heart can't bare to block him still, but I know in time I'll be strong enough to do so. I just have to keep the focus on myself and not on him.

[fromheeltoheal]

His parents were controlling but his mother was especially possessive over he and his brother - not wanting them to go out and make friends as children, or keeping them away from other female family memebers as to stop a bond from forming.

That is one possible cause of someone not successfully detaching from their mother and creating a self of their own: mom won't let them.  Although the disorder forms in the first few years of life, a time we don't remember much of, so who knows what it was like for him then, especially the first born with a young mother.  We can only guess.

I have an appointment tomorrow at 10.

WooHoo!  We look forward to updates... .

I just have to keep the focus on myself and not on him.

Yep.  Enjoy the change of pace, and hopefully new stimulus will keep your head out of the dark places for a few.