Potential Email to Biblical Counselor

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Pastor (his name),

I had not read FF wifes's document when I responded that I understood your instructions about using biblical conference table.  My assumption is (please clarify) that you had read both documents before you sent your instructions.

I am disappointed, hurt and deeply troubled that FF wife’s presumption of my affairs with women and dishonesty was not addressed.  I’m trying my best to hold my thoughts on the omission in a tentative fashion until I hear back from you in writing.

I believe that it would be wise to consider a pause in our current counseling plan to evaluate the accusations that are present again in our marriage.  It appears to me, that there have been repeated expressions of pain and suffering from FF wife due to a presumption of infidelity and dishonesty.  I believe that the best way to honor our marriage and to address the suffering that ff wife seems to be experiencing is to focus on what is obviously a fundamental core issue of our marriage.   

My understanding is that we are all in agreement that I am responsible for clarifying all issues in our marriage.  It is in that spirit that I send this communication.  I have prayerfully considered this issue since I read FF wifes’s homework submission.  Honestly, I don’t have any peace regarding our current direction of counseling or a way forward.  Yet another reason to consider a pause and discuss the best way forward and to memorialize any potential agreement on the way forward in writing.

Sincerely,

FF

[formflier]

Pastor (his name),

I had not read FF wifes's document when I responded that I understood your instructions about using biblical conference table.  My assumption is (please clarify) that you had read both documents before you sent your instructions.

I am disappointed, hurt and deeply troubled that FF wife’s presumption of my affairs with women and dishonesty was not addressed.  I’m trying my best to hold my thoughts on the omission in a tentative fashion until I hear back from you in writing.

I believe that it would be wise to consider a pause in our current counseling plan to evaluate the accusations that are present again in our marriage.  It appears to me, that there have been repeated expressions of pain and suffering from FF wife due to a presumption of infidelity and dishonesty.  I believe that the best way to honor our marriage and to address the suffering that ff wife seems to be experiencing is to focus on what is obviously a fundamental core issue of our marriage.   

My understanding is that we are all in agreement that I am responsible for clarifying all issues in our marriage.  It is in that spirit that I send this communication.  I have prayerfully considered this issue since I read FF wifes’s homework submission.  Honestly, I don’t have any peace regarding our current direction of counseling or a way forward.  Yet another reason to consider a pause and discuss the best way forward and to memorialize any potential agreement on the way forward in writing.

Sincerely,

FF

[formflier]

Had my weekly visit with Psychologist today.  My first draft was about twice this long.  This is draft two that I just sent to P.  We have an additional session set up tomorrow to go over this and clarify what I am willing to participate in as a way forward. (with regards to biblical counseling)

My goal is not to "blow it up", but my impression is that the guy has bee fiddling with things on the edge and then saying... "there... .isn't it all better now".  My previous attempts to gain clarity on a counseling plan (how he see's us getting to healthy) have been met with "trust me" and things like that. 

I'm interested in any comments.  Specifically would like help with questions I should ask P tomorrow.  What do I need to consider.

My wife trusts the biblical marriage counselor.  The MC has no idea what he is dealing with.  His intentions do seem good.

What if this is successful and my wife agrees to focus on her "presumptions".  This guy is not really equipped to deal with it.  Is it better to bring this stuff out or to keep fiddling at the edges of the relationship?

FF

[Notwendy]

I have a couple of thoughts before you mail this out - or you may decide not to. Sometimes it helps to write your thoughts out even if you don't mail them.

Being accused of cheating is aggravating-but it is part of the picture of BPD. I also think these fears are a part of her. They just happen to land on something that she thinks confirms them. If it wasn't the e mail with the co worker- it may have been something else. Getting to the root of them with the BC may not help in the grand scheme of things. Having your password won't help. Because the trust issue is not about you- it's a part of her.

Yet something is helping - I think you are managing things better. Although I expected MC to be a team effort - I found that whatever work I did helped me most and also the relationship. I also went to the only MC my H liked. Sometimes I thought she focused more on me and gave him a pass. But because of this he felt safe to go and that made a difference. The value in this BC may not be in his skill with BPD but her willingness to go to a MC she feels safe with.

Like you I did extra work - 12 step groups - a sponsor. Your P may be more effective for you. But the combination of the P and BC may work for you both. I don't think you should share your password- and that needs to be brought up. But before you take the wheel of the BC - consider that he doesn't have to do the whole job of helping to be of benefit.

[formflier]

I agree, this has been good for her and progress has been made.  I have no intention to "blow up" the counseling.

There is an intention to clarify, in writing, his methodology and plan.  Months ago we both submitted a list of issues we would like to work on.  I have tried to clarify this verbally a time or two, but was admonished for being selfish when I asked the question when we would focus on issues I submitted.  To date we have focused on or discussed ZERO of them.

What I can gather from his evasive answers is that until ALL of my wife's concerns are handled to his and her satisfaction NONE of mine will even be discussed.

While I haven't raised this exact issue in this email, as part of clarifying what I we are doing in the counseling room, I hope to have that addressed in writing.

One of the odd dynamics that is going on is that when I have brought up things the counselor has said or advised, he has admonished me for taking things out of context or flat out denied saying them.  Then, a few weeks later he admonished me for lack of clarity and I agreed with him that I needed to "lead" on clarity and that I would happily take on that role and that I would memorialize our conversations and agreements in writing.  He and my wife both happily agreed. 

When I stuck with the agreement, they are both openly and clearly dismayed at my insistence on following through with this.

While there has been good going on here, there is a lot I don't like and when I have brought it up I've been dismissed for having reservations. 

I either need to get a clear understanding of what we are doing or accept that I won't get it and just "play along" regardless of what is said.

Anyone tell I am frustrated... .?

FF

[Lilyroze]

  FF,

Trust in marriage is extremely vital for your marriage to thrive. Trust is also the most important thing that makes pursuing any relationship worthwhile.
Without trust, a healthy marriage or relationship can not exist.

Without complete trust, it’s impossible for married couples to have a “real” marriage or relationship. By “real” relationship, I mean a healthy one, loving and devoted one.
Most trust issues in marriages are caused by extra-marital sex, lying, cheating, emotional affairs, constant contact with an ex etc.The lack respect, honour or trust issues in marriage certainly plays a big role in many unhappy and unhealthy marriages.  

One of the Old Testament words for trust (batach) has a meaning of "careless." Think about it: When you trust your spouse, you feel so safe that you are careless—or free of concern—with him or her. You don't have to hide who you are or be self-protective.

What does that mean for you as a couple? It means checking with your spouse on how you affect him or her. Ask your wife with biblical counselor, "In what ways have I not been trustworthy?" For example, perhaps she thinks emotional affairs. This erodes trust and shows you can't be trusted with more vulnerable parts of the heart. Or maybe you have not delivered on your promises. Asking your spouse for honest input will reveal areas that you may need to work on to build trust in your marriage.

Your wife and biblical counselor are held responsible  in this, as you are willing to maintain relationship, marriage, help with children, go to counseling and learn tools and using biblical conference table. You have been trying to address things , they now need to listen to your hurt at moment.  If she feels distrust have her say why, then you both can address without as you said skirting issue.

Many men or women think it is OK to flirt, have emotional affairs, get close to ones of another sex by sharing what you wouldn't in a marriage. It destroys trust, erodes the relationship. If you want to be single and do that by all means. In a relationship both are owed trust, and faith to believe. In your prior post, exchanging accounts leads to trust and helps if there has been a breach, many biblical counselors recommend as you know. It usually saves many marriages when done right.

Problem with your wife is she has not acknowledged perhaps all the time, effort, energy you have put into validating, counseling etc. and the fact that really the exchange of accounts along with privacy is not possible due to her breach of ethics and trust. She did not take the accounts to look and ask, be reassured. She took it upon her self to send from your email, wrecked a friendship and work relationship, then went onto to talk to the other side in a legal battle. Who does that?

You love her, the marriage and the children but after all these years, and counseling she needs to take responsibility for breaking ethics and bounds in a marriage. That is perhaps why she is not given that freedom now. She didn't respect it, or was mature about it. Granted BPD, childlike at times, but her and the counselor have to address and own that.

You are not saying hey locked phone, locked accounts and going off in secret having affairs, at least hope not... . You are saying I am here, lets make the marriage work, lets address things, lets go to counseling, etc. You are giving her a gift many women cheated on , hurt or abused or healthy relationships would love. Someone trying to make it work, owning their share, addressing her mental problems with love, and concern, giving trust. To quite frankly have it broken with the emails and lawyers. She now needs to earn that again. If she even can.

Trust isn't given unconditionally. You have to be trustworthy to receive trust. Even Jesus submitted himself to the trust test, teaching people to see if He was really who He claimed: ":)o not believe me unless I do what my Father does" (John 10:37).

Trust and truth go hand in hand. That is why deception of any sort is the biggest trust killer.

"One couple I counseled experienced a crisis of trust that could have torn their marriage apart. The husband flirted with other women: waitresses, co-workers, even their mutual friends. He thought it was harmless until his wife told him how alone and scared it made her feel. He saw how it was affecting her, and he was a changed man"

I think you are putting it where it needs, to let her address why she feels there has been some deception, mistrust or affairs. If she is valid, mistakes made, don't live in past rectify and move forward. If not you are still willing to address, along with the fact hey I am human and trying to lets get this out in open and deal with it. For her sake, yours, the marriage and the kids. Again though she needs to OWN the fact she betrayed trust, even if she felt she had the right. The way was childish, immature, and not a woman of Biblical Character. If she wants to live as a Proverbs woman then go forward and do it. Above Rubies!

This also is a key to rebuilding trust. Without it, it’s like building a brick wall without cement. The goal of rebuilding trust is that at some point there is genuine sorrow on the part of betrayer as well as the person mislead or hurt.

I am only stating biblical references as you stated to Pastor and in that regard. Please use what you can, throw out the rest and be blessed. Hope didn't over step bounds.

LR

[Cat Familiar]

Yuck. Presumed guilty without evidence. This guy is way over his head and unable to understand or deal with your wife's paranoia.

I can see why you're frustrated. If I were in your position, I'd be angry. The only strategy I can think of is a quid pro quo. "OK, Sweetheart. We're seeing your guy. Now we need to see my counselor."

I really don't think he's capable of anything beyond a basic bandaid and your relationship needs emergency surgery.

[Lilyroze]

On another note, agree with Cat... .but that is why if you take the approach I wrote it is holding them accountable as well... It will put it all back in their lap to be addressed.

You are willing to listen, address, show you didn't but he ( B counselor) wants to treat her as a Proverbs above Rubies woman. If he can't delve into mental problems or face as many B counselors can't. He can at least see what she did for what it was in relation to requests or accusations now. FF I know you love her, the marriage and the children and she is to you. I am not saying she is not, she is human we all have faults. But truly she had no right to write from you account, wreck a business relationship or chance for job for you, or worse with lawyers.

It will put it back where it belongs while addressing her concerns. If you really were doing all that highly doubt you would be here, learning tools, reading books, going to counseling, helping with marriage and kids. So now you can politely listen, address, make her feel loved and safe as you have.


Then... .see how they are going to address her deceptions, and covertly wrecking things in your life in the name of love... .

[HopefulDad]

I also went to the only MC my H liked. Sometimes I thought she focused more on me and gave him a pass. But because of this he felt safe to go and that made a difference. The value in this BC may not be in his skill with BPD but her willingness to go to a MC she feels safe with.

I think Notwendy hit the nail on the head.  After reading so much of FF's story, I'm convinced that the BMC is primarily a lifeline to keep her in a "see someone" mode which has value: She needs to seek professional help and this could be the gateway to it.  She seems to have been spending time reflecting on her upbringing and her adult siblings' behavior since seeing the BMC, so maybe the visits are paying dividends.

To FF: But that means don't expect much more out of this BMC.  While it may seem more satisfying to have your issues addressed and perhaps see the heat turned up on your wife to address her role in the dysfunction, it could also push her away.  This happens a lot.  While I don't suggest going along with everything the BMC advises (e.g. surrender your email password), it probably is best to let him drive the direction of the counseling.  You seem to have a good understanding of boundaries, so continue to set and enforce them as needed while working as cooperatively as possible with the BMC.

[Lilyroze]

Yes agree Hopeful Dad it is where she feels secure. It is important to make her feel, safe, secure validated. But reason affair is being brought up is to ask for passwords. So eventually you either agree, get angry or bring up why you are hurt, and may not be possible. Eventually you can only molly coddle someone so long if you want them to see your side as well.

I know BC is easy on her, and she feels good there. That is good, important and keep going.

But truly FF like I said before BMC can only do so much. You can only do so much with validating, trying, working on and being there. Eventually you become permanent counseling couple which is fine if working. Or you see you can only get so far and accept who and what she is.

Though credit where credit is due she is going, trying, and you have seen some improvement. So keep going and sticking to your plan, boundaries, and validating.

When all is said and done counseling and love can only do so much when one sided. I would think BPD or not giving love, boundaries and a healthy hey I am hurt as well, should work for both.

[formflier]

There is wisdom in considering "what if" this causes her to bolt.

There is wisdom in considering what to do with success.  She says "fine BC can ask my anything he wants about my family, history... .any of that".  Do I really want the MC trying to sort out both sides of her family tree with granddads (to my wife) that were womanizers, drinkers... .really toxic people? 

I do understand where this likely comes from.  "this" being my wife's attitudes to men, that they are scum. 

I've also gone into this counseling with the attitude of "I don't agree with it, it is not what I would choose for my wife, but I need to respect her choices and play by those rules (vice trying to short circuit them).

So far, it's pretty much worked out, even when I thought it would implode things.

For instance, remember the CPS incident years ago that I recorded.   I recorded the beating she gave our kids.  Anyway, the wise advice on here is not to play recordings for pwBPD.  My wife maintained (before the recording) that she spanked them only when calm and composed and that she was a blameless person in this instance.

If you remember, we ended up listening to it.  My wife repented, said it was bad parenting and actually (in writing and in person) seemed genuinely remorseful for that. 

We all understand that the "negative energy" likely just went somewhere else.  And a month or so later she wanted to argue about what was on the CPS papers.  I chose not to argue but suggested a copy of the paper be attained to clarify things.  She chose not to obtain the actual paperwork.

So, I say this to clarify that it is possible that this email could be productive.  It's not a slam dunk that it would derail things.

Please keep the comments and concerns coming.  I want to have as many angles to examine as possible with P tomorrow.  My goal is to leave the session with a strategy that I feel comfortable with. 

Honestly, I could see myself being comfortable with dropping the matter or pursuing it by sending the email. 

Remember, this P has seen her in action... .for several hours.  This P seems to have a good idea of how my wife processes things.  It's very much a control thing. 

For instance, do you guys remember the picture of a naked woman that my wife sent me (years ago)?  Yep... same wife that accuses me of inappropriate r/s with woman... sends me pics of one... .nakey pics.

The critical thing is that my wife was in control of what she was exposing me to.  That likely made it ok (in her mind).

I can see that as a possibility.

Anyway... .thanks and keep it coming.

FF

[empath]

I had a discussion about my husband's 'trust issues' with my pastor a while ago. Pastor asked if there was any basis for husband's trust issues with me, and I said no there aren't. He didn't have a response to that; I think he was probably confused. (people tend to be confused when they enter into our marital world, unless they understand what is happening) Right now, I'm just letting them be confused; at least the pastor now thinks that maybe this is above his pay grade and that I need professional help. (I've been getting outside help for over a year now)

My husband has an alternate reality version of what our history is and doesn't trust me because he finally heard the truth that I had been saying for a long time. I'm not going to tell anyone except licensed mental health professionals that one.

My husband is also doing a Celebrate Recovery group which he actually likes because he can be vulnerable and open. I'm trying not to invalidate his experience even though it is keeping him stuck relationally because it isn't addressing his issues.

[Waddams]

FF, I'm gonna be blunt, and it might come off a little harsh.  I totally empathize with you in that the constant, recurring accusations of infidelity by your wife are very hurtful.  Honestly, call it whatever you want - paranoia, BPD, NPD, etc., there is a part of her that knows there isn't a shred of proof or basis for the accusations.  The fact that she continues to do it shows one thing - she's angry and she's trying to hurt you by throwing out baseless accusations.  It's just mud slinging in the hope it sticks.

Infidelity is a horrible betrayal.  My uPDxw cheated on me with her best friend's husband.  It was a betrayal of me, our son as it compromised the security of his life, and a betrayal of both our extended families.  It should never be taken lightly in any way.  The MC not stopping immediately to address it and vet it out is allowing your wife to continue to use this tactic to hurt you.  To rephrase, he's becoming her useful idiot and is enabling her to continue doing it.  He's becoming complicit in her attacks.

You are justified in being angry about this.  You are justified in confronting this guy.  You are justified in confronting your wife about it.  And you're justified in being a bit more blunt about it.  I see no reason to say more then asking him why he allows her to get away with hurting you by baselessly accusing you of cheating?  And why he instead acts in a way that enables her to continue doing so?  Then telling him nothing entitles a person to treat another in that matter, and you are not obligated to have to stand there and take such abuse.  Even if she really is truly mentally ill, that still does not justify any obligation for you to have to take that kind of abuse.  If he can't figure out he needs to redirect the session to address something like that once it's thrown out there, and instead he's only going to continue to allow her to use MC as a venue to abuse you, you're justified in bowing out.

In the end, despite all the counseling and whatever ways we can define and articulate all the crappy dynamics we end up dealing with, the only thing that really matters are actions and behaviors.  If she is going to behave like that, and the MC is going to behave like that, the best way to show you won't tolerate it is demonstrate that by your behavior and refusing to be in a position again where they can continue to do this to you.

[Fian]

FF, I see this email as something written out of frustration, and trying to "force" the BC to do things correctly.  As I see things, you have 2 choices:

1.  Push and either cause him to drop you, or you drop him as BC.  You do not see another MC as your wife will blame you for sabotaging the one that she chose.
2.  Continue with BC, and "let go."  He talks about what he wants to talk about.  It will certainly make him happier, and your wife may continue to show some growth attending MC with him.  On your end, you keep the peace, be careful not to agree to things that are harmful to you (like giving her your email password), and see if you can learn something in this.  As the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I just don't see the gain from #1 above, other than it removes you from a frustrating situation.  I think, though, that your wife's likely regression will outweigh any peace you gain from not going to the BC.  #2, while personally frustrating, does seem to give you some benefit as you wife does listen to BC.

Also, wasn't it 2 weeks ago that you said that your wife "lost" all of the discussions in the meeting?  I am not sure why you are saying that he is just focusing on you since your wife has had some very uncomfortable time spent in the marriage counseling.

[formflier]

  I am not sure why you are saying that he is just focusing on you since your wife has had some very uncomfortable time spent in the marriage counseling.

I am saying this, because several months ago we were each asked to provide a list of concerns that we would like to work on in MC.

To date, we have worked on zero of mine.  I have brought this up a time or two and was admonished for "being selfish" and "thinking only of myself".  I asked if it was possible that I brought this up with the intention of healing a marriage for both of us, and that my mindset was as the leader of the household (what he was teaching) vice "just being out for me" and his answers were evasive.

Yes there have been several sessions that were absolutely bruising for my wife.  Those were times when he addressed her actions and words, many times ones that she brought up in session. 

Part of his evasive answers have seemed to indicate that NONE of the issues on my list will be addressed until ALL of my wife's issues have been addressed to his and her satisfaction.

Her having my email password is on "her list".  There is zero chance... .zero chance... .she will get it.

Yes... .there is frustration here.  My P was pretty strong about wanting me to own and share my feelings about this.

FF

[Notwendy]

I agree that while you have the "right" to have your concerns aired, to have the BC hold her feet to the fire, the other side is to sabotage the only MC relationship she agreed to.

I felt in a similar way. Our MC seemed to favor my H, and work on me harder. I also felt anger and resentment. Yet, my H had previously refused MC in the past and I didn't want to ruin what I thought was my only chance at this. Yet because she worked harder on me, I gained that benefit of personal growth. Over time, we made progress- perhaps slower because it felt one sided, but as I grew, there was still positive change in the relationship. Because of my own growth, it helped my other relationships too- with my mother, with my kids, and more.

Your BC may be wiser than you know. I think my MC sensed that if she pushed too hard with my H, he would have quit. I think she was right on that. Since I was the one who wanted the counseling, and my H was hesitant, she knew I would stay if she pushed it. I think a lot of the early sessions were her forming a safe bond with him- and once that was achieved, she began to push gently with him too.

While you are "right" about your concerns, sometimes "being right" isn't the best path. Maybe the best path is to let her accusations come out- in therapy- until they seem so outrageous the BC starts to figure out that something is off. Maybe if you state in therapy that you don't want to give her your password and she dysregulates in front of him. Your BC may not know all about her yet, but as he gets to know her better, he will likely learn more.

I understand your frustrations, but the question is- is it better to watch and wait- let things go with him at the wheel, or take it.

If your wife is paranoid, and thinks the BC is on "your side" - that might be the end of the therapy for her.

[formflier]

All good concerns.  I am considering them.

Some nuances.  This MC is my wife's idea.  We have been to numerous counselors. 

I'm also deliberate to not "demand" a course of action, other than to pause and be clear on the course of action that my wife and the MC are suggesting we take.

They still have hand on wheel. 

Keep comments coming.

FF

[Notwendy]

Being accuse of infidelity is aggravating. I've been there, despite no evidence of it. Just being human was enough. I've seen the look on my H's face when a Victoria Secret commercial comes on. But that isn't infidelity. He's a man, and he has eyes. He has no relationship with the models on TV. Yet, if thought a movie star on TV was handsome - that became " you want him more than me". No, I don't. The movie star is an illusion. I want my marriage.

This used to upset me and I would JADE. The key for me to reduce these accusations was to have my own strong boundaries and be firm in the knowledge that I didn't cheat. I stopped reacting to them, and they have diminished- because I didn't add to the drama. Defense raises suspicion. If there is nothing to defend, then there isn't any reason to defend it.

[formflier]

I see the point about defense.

Honestly, I don't believe I am doing that.

I see myself asking a process question (and perhaps the answer is that the MC did not read the document, I allowed for that) of why we are letting obvious sin go unaddressed.

The Bible speaks strongly about false allegations and the Bible speaks clearly about infidelity.

More later

FF

[Notwendy]

Those 10 big rules are clear about infidelity and bearing false witness. But I think they are first meant as a means of judging ourselves. Judgment of others includes context and there is a higher judge than us. Also, even in Biblical days, there were courts of law and judges.

I think we are all created with unique weaknesses, skills and then our own challenges. A person who has material security may not be tempted to steal. Someone with no money and a hungry family may be tempted, might even do it. There is a law about stealing, but the judgment is considered in context.

If someone has BPD, feelings are fact. Paranoia is believing something that isn't real - is real. While it isn't right to be falsely accused of cheating, it may be that to your wife, her fears and suspicions don't seem false at all. They may feel completely real to her. In this context, she isn't deliberately accusing your falsely.

Her thinking is a part of her. Perhaps there is a way to manage these fears between you, a way to address them without thinking it is about you. Using a law will "prove" her wrong, but it may not help her.

[HopefulDad]

This MC is my wife's idea.  We have been to numerous counselors.

You have mentioned that your wife has started making comments on her toxic childhood and her adult siblings' behavior.  Did she start focusing on her FOO since the BMC sessions began or before?  If the former, then I think you're seeing the direct benefits of seeing this BMC.  Upon more introspection, she may finally seek help for herself.

I'm also deliberate to not "demand" a course of action, other than to pause and be clear on the course of action that my wife and the MC are suggesting we take.

Between this quote and your other posts on how you are frustrated that your issues have not been addressed one iota, it indicates that you truly are expecting to get something more out of MC than it just being a gateway to your wife seeking further help.  On this note... .

... .I suggest giving up on this desire.  It has been said countless times in these forums that MC really doesn't help fix marriages in which one or both partners suffer a PD.  You trying to steer MC in a direction more to your liking and satisfaction is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  Until your wife starts fixing the hole in the hull by seeking professional help, you're marriage is taking on water no matter what else you do.

If it really does matter to you to steer things more in a favorable direction, you might be more successful doing so by by staying his course (key caveat: without violating your own boundaries like giving up your passwords).  While he has spent a lot of time with you both, he is still making judgments and observations.  One of them may be "FF is combative.  He probably is combative at home, too." whether or not that's actually true.  That perception could undermine any hope you have towards things changing course.  Going along with his plans with minimal questioning will more than likely turn the focus towards your wife because then she'll be the more combative spouse (in his mind).

[formflier]

Great session with Psychologist today, covering some very difficult topics.

An email (of some sort) will be sent.  I'm working on draft three. 

Big picture focus. 

1.  Something unhealthy just happened.  It has been a repetitive, unaddressed pattern since 2009.  I need to have a healthy (non-combative) response to that that expresses my desire to acknowledge and support my wife in working through something obviously painful and obviously not understood.

More later.

FF

[Lilyroze]

FF,
That is awesome you have the support to help you in expressing yourself.

Reading more it does seem your wife has many issues that BMC is trying to address. So as a healthy non wading through it all, guess best to put your issues to the side right now.

 If there is a way to have them understand why no passwords now, due to her not handling in adult fashion fine. If not maybe see what is best for long run outcome for you both in trust.  Comes down to not important battles, to win the war of your marriage intact and healthy eventually. Good job.

1.  Something unhealthy just happened.  It has been a repetitive, unaddressed pattern since 2009.  I need to have a healthy (non-combative) response to that that expresses my desire to acknowledge and support my wife in working through something obviously painful and obviously not understood

I am glad you are able to see something unaddressed and hurting your wife. Acknowledgement, support, respect, caring while helping her work through it will be the key to love and the success of your marriage. Sounds like a good plan, getting even better. It is wonderful to see the transformation taking place over a period of time with you both.

I am happy for her that she feels safe to express her hurts, needs, and core sorrows. Doing the inner work, is not easy but she is to be commended. Hopefully it will reap many benefits for herself, you, your marriage and partnership in raising your children.

I never think holding someones feet to fire is good idea, you win on paper not in hearts. Hearts, love, trust, kindness that is what matters at the end of the day, in whether a relationship lasts, whether children in situation are raised in healthy ways to continue that on in future for themselves. Modeling good behavior as you know will reap generations of benefits.

 It will be nice once some more of hers are addressed and she feels safe, maybe then yours can be approached. In healing and helping though I would kindly suggest perhaps making it known that if you have a legal battle or work opportunities that respect has to be in place to not hurt. As it hurts the whole family not just one. That is just a thought. You have guidance, professionals in place, counseling and lawyers so they know best how to suggest perhaps if needed.

Thanks for sharing.

[Cat Familiar]

I don't know if he would accept this idea, or if you've broached the subject with him, but you might want to ask him for a confidential one-on-one meeting. Yes, I get that he's in the camp of "one flesh" but with mental illness, I would think even the strictest fundamentalist who had some minimal education about human behavior would realize that accommodations need to be made for behavior that deviates from the norm.

If I were in your shoes, I would flat out tell him that, based upon her behavior before a clinical psychologist, your wife has been diagnosed as having a paranoid personality disorder in addition to other co-morbid aspects.

I think he needs to get the big picture and from what you're describing, I don't think he's got it yet.

Yes, I can understand how important it is to build trust so that she feels safe in a counseling environment, but without an overarching perspective of your relationship, he's flying blind.

[formflier]

Draft 3. 

Draft 1 was not published here.  Draft 2 is what you saw.  Three is after my session today.

Big points.  I need to be obviously about taking lead, without being demanding.  It's not about me, it's about my wife's pain and my desire to serve and heal.  That is a Christlike response.

If you remember, my Psychologist is devout Christian.  A very good mix, IMO.

She also, like many of you, reminded me that I want to keep BMC on my side... .or at least not antagonize him.  And to realize that he is cludo about what he is dealing with and how to "properly" address it.

Draft 3 below.  Please hit hard with comments and ideas. 

And email will be sent.  I will not stay silent.  I am open to comments and opinions about that... .so don't hold back.

My goal is to find on the "good, better, best" scale... .hopefully the best (healthiest) way to start addressing this.

Anyone have a better suggestion that using the word "perplexing"?



Pastor (his name),

I had not read FF wifes's document when I responded that I understood your instructions about using biblical conference table.   Since reading FF wife’s document I have been prayerfully considering my response to clarify the situation and lead in my marriage.

I am puzzled by the absence of any mention of FF wifes’s presumption of my affairs with women and her seeming persistent belief that I am a fundamentally dishonest person in your email.  Although this was not addressed in your email, I hope this can be a topic we spend significant time on in our next session.

FF wife seems to have been crying out in pain, over this issue, many times in the past several years, and I cannot see how I am serving her well as a christian husband if I am not part of understanding and healing this pain in an immediate manner. 

Can we consider pause in our current counseling plan to address FF wife’s cries of pain?  This has come up repeatedly since 2009 and I honestly believe it is a block to us moving forward.
 
Several days prior to the allegations FF wife and I had a significant and healing conversation pertaining to the movie "American Sniper".  I believed,and FF wife expressed verbally, that the conversation was healing and brought us closer.  This makes the return of accusations all the more perplexing and reinforces my belief in the immense pain FF wife is experiencing.


Sincerely,

FF

[formflier]

If you want to look at the impact of PTSD on a marriage, American Sniper does it well.  I swear that I have said the exact same things.

So,  imagine that r/s but the wife also has traits of PTSD.

FF

[KateCat]

If I were in your shoes, I would flat out tell him that, based upon her behavior before a clinical psychologist, your wife has been diagnosed as having a paranoid personality disorder in addition to other co-morbid aspects.

I would do this as well. . . . Has the clinical psychologist recommended that you not do this? Does she believe he will come to understand in his own time and that it is important to let that time come when it will?

[formflier]

If I were in your shoes, I would flat out tell him that, based upon her behavior before a clinical psychologist, your wife has been diagnosed as having a paranoid personality disorder in addition to other co-morbid aspects.

I would do this as well. . . . Has the clinical psychologist recommended that you not do this? Does she believe he will come to understand in his own time and that it is important to let that time come when it will?

This particular "brand" of Biblical Counseling is "anti-mental health treatment".  Psychiatry and Psychologists are generally bad.  If people just pray and get right with God... .

FF

[KateCat]

Oh, I think I remember you mentioning, some months ago, a like-minded biblical counselor (though maybe he was also a licensed mental health provider) who cites on his website one case he had during his career of a literal freeing of a person from the illness of personality disorder using these biblical methods.

And I think you were at that time holding out hope for a similar, though understandably rare, result with your wife. That makes sense to me.

I'm glad you are firm in not giving your passwords to a spouse who cannot help but cause difficulties for people who interact with you.

Man, if you're getting your sleep these days and you no longer have to worry about your wife damaging your business relations, then I think you're on a great upward path.

[formflier]

 
https://youtu.be/er4tJ24FSLI

Certainly this would be nice, I think it unlikely.  If the MC is ready to acknowledge and focus on this, then perhaps.

This lady already had the label and was there to work on that.

If you deny something is an issue... .not much will come of it.

FF

[GaGrl]

FF, I would recommend that your email to the B.C. emphasize ongoing pain on both sides -that 1) Your wife experiences pain in her persistent belief that you engage in emotional and perhaps physical affairs, and 2) that you experience the pain of unfounded and unjust accusations of infidelity, when you have in actuality been a faithful spouse for so many years. And... .the result of this pain has been ongoing violations of boundaries resulting in lack of trust on both sides.