Timeline after Breakup- Can Anyone Explain This?

[JJacks0]

May 22nd – Invited her for coffee-discussed a fresh start.
May 24th- Date - I suggested a place.She agreed but later made a comment about how bad of an idea it was. I was trying to be thoughtful. I decided on a different place. I picked her up, told her she looked nice, we were having a good time. She started to change & by the time we left she told me to just take her home. I was so confused. She said she thought I was going to be pulling out all the stops & I didn’t even hold her hand. This was our first “date” in quite a while, I was a nervous & trying to feel it out. I tried to convince her that we were going to have a good time. Gave her concert tickets I had bought her. She told me that I should return them. She agreed to go to a bar I thought she’d like. She told me she felt foolish for how she acted,liked the gift, etc. Rest of the night was nice-she didn't want to leave. We were affectionate,said goodnight. I felt hurt by the way she had treated me but I didn’t say a word
Date 2 – Went to eat & for a walk. She held my hand. Afterwards she said I didn’t hold her hand tightly enough. She said that physical affection was important to her. I told her that it wasn’t intentional, I really didn’t mean anything by it or realize that it seemed that way
June 3rd – She came over, had dinner, snuggled on the couch
June 5th - Great night. I didn’t kiss her (I honestly was just nervous - sounds lame but it had been so long). Later she called me upset. I told her that she could initiate affection too-she said she wouldn’t, for fear I’d just be going along w/it. Said she felt like a spark was there tho
June 6 – Said sorry for getting weird w/you last night, really did have a great time,wished we could do it every day
June 10th - Went to her house.I was petting the cat (our shared cat who she now has, & I hadn’t seen in a while). She was upset that I wasn’t giving her enough affection. Didn’t know this until I was already home
June 12th - Met her & her friend at Pride Fest. I took the bus & my phone was dying (which she knew). We planned to spend the night together & I'd get a ride home w/ her. After finding her she turned off her phone & ditched me alone downtown w/o a car or phone. Apparently her friend had asked her if I was frustrated with her (my ex). My ex said, “I didn’t even think you were, but when she said that I was like, ‘___ it, I don’t want to deal w/that tonight.’”
June 13th - Told me at Pride she thought I looked so cute & I stuck out to her. Said “I’m really happy you still want to spend your birthday w/ me. I know I need to make up for Saturday & I promise I will. I love you to the moon & back & it’s become very clear that I can’t risk losing you ever again. I just have to say what I’m thinking cuz I don’t want to hurt you anymore & I feel so lucky that you didn’t just give up. I’m going to try really hard to make you happy now. As bad as Pride was it really opened my eyes to the fact that I would be devastated if I lost you. I’m so sorry & I know I’m confusing. I just want to be happy & make you happy. That’s all I ever wanted no matter how I twisted things.”
June 14th - My birthday. Came over w/lots of gifts. I thanked her, had a great time. Then she got upset I didn’t hug her after opening my gifts. Fight-she told me it was over, blocked my phone # & defriended me on FB
June 15- I called her from a work phone & left her a voicemail asking her to call me back. She did
June 18th - She broke it off again
June 19 - Text me and told me she wanted to see me, that not seeing me was making her sick. I went to see her that night
June 20th - Said, “I am just so happy I stopped being a stubborn idiot and get to see you. I haven’t felt this happy in a while so thank you.”
June 21 – Told me she can’t wait to wake up next to me again
June 22nd – Good day w/ her
June 23rd – Good day w/ her
June 24th – Love & I miss yous. Told me she was excited to see the concert w/me
June 25th – Good date w/ her
June 26th - Great day together. Asked me how I prioritized certain things in my life & I told her I’d think about it- agreed to talk another day. She kissed me & told me she had a really good feeling about things
June 27th - called me upset- saw on FB that a friend suggested I invite another friend to an event. She was upset that I had not yet invited her. I tried to explain it but she yelled that I needed to give her my answer that moment about priorities or she would block my number & delete my FB. I asked to do it when calm. She said “I don’t give a ___ what you want.” Went to her house that night-by the end I was asking her to give me another chance.
June 28th – She came over.
June 30th – Love yous.
July 1st –  Kissy faces.
July 3rd –  Cute texts.
July 4th - went to a festival. thought things were going well. later told me it "didn't feel right", we shouldn't talk anymore.
July 9th - Caved/called her. No change. Took friend to concert I got her tickets for.
July 11th-She initiated NC.
July 21st - She called me,professed love, told me she didn’t want to see anyone else,just wanted me. Told me she tried going on a date & felt like she was cheating on me. Got to her apartment,she was waiting in the parking lot. Ran to me,gave me a hug/kiss. I brought her favorite dinner & told her how much I loved her, how beautiful she looked, was incredibly affectionate. She was loving, affectionate until the end of the night. seemed distant. Said something was missing – thinking about her mom who passed away a year ago. When I got home I called to see if she was ok. She told me it had been a mistake, we shouldn’t see each other again, it didn’t feel the same, she loved me but wasn’t sure if *in* love w/me. Thought she should have felt more excited than she ended up.
July 29th – I called her-she did not change her mind. Wants to move on, see other people, I am not who she thinks she wants“in her corner” so to speak. I’ve been here for her, loved her, forgiven her, learned from her, supported her thru years of mental health crises, took her to appointments, saw her therapists, visited her in hospitals when her own parents walked out. I forgave her every time she broke something or did something hurtful. I researched ways to help, got a DBT book,talked to her social worker, fought for her to receive the best treatment, always stood by her.
August 6- Deleted 7 years' worth of photos of us on FB & re-uploaded w/ me cropped out.
August 9- Have not heard from her.
I want her back. I must be crazy.

[fromheeltoheal]

I must be crazy.

Being emotionally enmeshed with someone with a personality disorder is crazymaking JJ, but you can make it better.

That was a pretty chaotic couple of months.  The first thing that jumped out for me was a trait of the disorder: "A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation."

Would you agree it applies?

[joeramabeme]

Hi Jjacks0

That is quite the journal and I really identified with a lot of it.  Have you heard that pwBPD have an unstable sense of self?  This means that they are not quite sure, have uncertainty and are likely to fill that uncertainty with a "script" of "how it should be".  Kind of like not having a central place with which to reorient yourself to a particular experience.  Sounds like your ex was exhibiting this quite a bit and you were trying to make sense of it all.  The truth is likely that she could not make sense of it all herself - therefore, you certainly cannot either. 

The sad part is, that with many of our exes, there is nothing wrong with them as people.  BPD is an emotional disorder triggered by fear of abandonment that typically emanates from their past along with no conscious connection to the originating fears.  The behaviors we see today tend to be reenactments of the emotions being felt coupled with a simultaneous detachment of the actual memories that caused the feelings.

It seems from reading your post that you are searching for answers.  They are there but not easy to understand and frequently harder to accept.

Keep posting and reading, the answers do come.  Are you totally NC?

KRB

[JJacks0]

Yes, I agree it applies. And I have been NC since July 29th.

I sort of understand why these things happen in terms of her BPD traits, but what I'm struggling with is determining if I should just give up on this entirely or if she does still love me. This push/pull makes it so hard to discern what is real.

[fromheeltoheal]

I sort of understand why these things happen in terms of her BPD traits, but what I'm struggling with is determining if I should just give up on this entirely or if she does still love me. This push/pull makes it so hard to discern what is real.

It's all real.  When she loves you she loves you, when she doesn't she doesn't, all the way, the unstable nature of the disorder, borne out of not having a fully formed self of her own, and the instability escalates the more intense the emotions get.  The question is are you willing to put up with those behaviors, all of them, and ride that wave, or are they unacceptable to you?

[rfriesen]

Hi JJacks,
Sounds like an incredibly difficult few months and like you've worked really hard to keep track of everything and to understand it all. I can imagine it must be an intense emotional rollercoaster.

This push/pull makes it so hard to discern what is real.

Just going by the journal you've posted, the push/pull is what is real. So many of us here can relate to the confusion that creates, and to the longing for some sense of resolution, to see "what is really behind" the push/pull and to finally find that reality and stable ground underneath it all. But what if there is no stable ground behind it all? Many of us have had the sense that our exes were "playing games" with us, with all the pushing and pulling -- as though they really know what they want from us, but are manipulating us to get it. And we just want to have an honest conversation with them, to know "once and for all" what they want.

But, in many cases at least, the reality seems to be that they themselves have no stable sense of what they want. The push/pull is the reality. If your ex made a sincere effort at therapy or stabilising herself, maybe she would eventually find her way to more stable ground. Has she ever made that effort? If not, are you prepared to accept that "what is real" is simply the push/pull that you see, no hidden truth lying behind it? If the push/pull is the reality, do you want to detach from it?

[JJacks0]

Well we were together for nearly 7 years and there was never nearly as much push/pull as there has been just in the few months since we've seperated.
I miss her so much and I'd like to think that with the better understanding I have now I could be a better partner for her. But at this point she has initiated NC and implied that she's moving on. Yes, I've heard this before but some time has to be the last time right?  At some point she'll meet someone else. I hope that she'll call me and change her mind, but I realize looking at this time line that even if she did she'd probably push me away again. I took her deleting all photos of me as a pretty solid sign.  Since we moved out in April she has been acting this way. I'm sure she feels that I abandoned her, although in reality this was her choice to move out. She said if I couldn't provide her what she wanted at that time she wasn't waiting anymore and I was honest and told her that I wasn't sure I could at that moment. She had been very disappointed in my lately for the way I behaved after her mother passed. I began socializing again,  working, and taking classes. And she believed that to be selfish. 
I guess my point is that despite everything,  I still want her. But I really don't feel like she'll be contacting me again.

[FallBack!Monster]

It's all real.  When she loves you she loves you, when she doesn't she doesn't, all the way, the unstable nature of the disorder, borne out of not having a fully formed self of her own, and the instability escalates the more intense the emotions get.  The question is are you willing to put up with those behaviors, all of them, and ride that wave, or are they unacceptable to you?

Im not too sure if I'm breaking any website rules. I did read the guidelines when the site was down last week.

Anyhow, how comes they do not slip up and behave in this manner during the Honeymoon period?

I believe  JJ is asking this because she didn't act this way for All that time they were together. What changed? The strength/amount of love? Or are they really just bored and need a new game? Why the fear after all that time of being together? Something just doesn't seem, Idk.

Sorry if I broke any rules

[fromheeltoheal]

Im not too sure if I'm breaking any website rules. I did read the guidelines when the site was down last week.

Anyhow, how comes they do not slip up and behave in this manner during the Honeymoon period?

I believe  JJ is asking this because she didn't act this way for All that time they were together. What changed? The strength/amount of love? Or are they really just bored and need a new game? Why the fear after all that time of being together? Something just doesn't seem, Idk.

Sorry if I broke any rules

Valid questions FallBackMonster, no rules broken.

What changed, as JJacks says, "I'm sure she feels that I abandoned her, although in reality this was her choice to move out.".  Being abandoned and the loss of an attachment is the worst thing that could happen for a borderline, and even if they did the leaving, the feeling of abandonment is still there, because it's tied to the loss of the attachment.  So my take, and JJacks would need to see if it rings true, how would I know having never met either of them, is that during the first 7 years there wasn't as much push/pull, but it was there, and then when abandonment was interpreted, it got extreme, because the emotions got extreme and the behaviors are caused by the emotions.

Borderlines constantly deal with the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment, the cause of the push/pull behavior, trying to straddle the fence between them, and also think in black and white instead of grays, and feel intense emotions, the more extreme the fears get the more extreme the emotions.  So combine all of that and the title of the book "I Hate You Don't Leave Me" resonates as a pretty accurate description of the emotional state of a borderline towards the end of these relationships when emotions are at their peak.  Does that help any?

[JJacks0]

That makes a lot of sense. I wish I had known that sooner, I would have tried to find a way to stay living together without completely ignoring my own needs.

That being said, do you feel it's too far gone? I know she felt abandoned initially but I think I've made it quite clear since that I would never actually abandon her if we got back together. I had hoped that my efforts post-move would make her feel more secure.

I know no one can predict the future,  but based on typical behavior, do you think she'll ever come back to me?

[fromheeltoheal]

based on typical behavior, do you think she'll ever come back to me?

If there's trouble in her current paradise you may pop up on her radar as someone who can soothe her emotions, so she may contact you, and with your history together I'd consider it likely at some point, the only thing preventing it would be if she did something that she can feel great shame about, that might keep her away.  But otherwise, if she does contact you, and you show there's still an emotional attachment in place, that's an open door to a borderline, so another idealization phase may start, and how far that goes is entirely up to you.  The best thing you can do is take very good care of yourself and work through the detachment process, so if it does happen, you can make decisions from that place.

[flourdust]

I know no one can predict the future,  but based on typical behavior, do you think she'll ever come back to me?

Come back? Quite possibly. Stay? No.

You could potentially repeat this exhausting and chaotic cycle many times, without it ever getting better.

[rfriesen]

That being said, do you feel it's too far gone? I know she felt abandoned initially but I think I've made it quite clear since that I would never actually abandon her if we got back together. I had hoped that my efforts post-move would make her feel more secure.

As you say, JJacks, no one can predict the future and there are no guarantees one way or the other in life. That said, your original post above suggests many occasions on which your ex felt abandoned, with very little connection between her feelings and your actions. You didn't hold her hand tightly enough, so she questions your commitment (i.e. wonders whether you're abandoning her). You don't hug her at the right time, same doubts creep in. Things suddenly "don't feel right" to her for no apparent reason, so she pushes you away again. And, as you said yourself, "I'm sure she feels that I abandoned her, although in reality this was her choice to move out." Can you really hope to prevent those feelings of her by doubling down even further on your efforts to reassure her?

Given the pattern of behaviour as you describe it, an important question to ask yourself is whether any amount of effort at reassuring your ex can succeed in making her feel safe. She seems to feel that you're abandoning her, regardless of how you behave. And you cannot control her feelings. Yes, our actions can influence how a person feels about us, of course. But I think you can see from your own description of her actions how her fears of abandonment, her push/pull, her doubts, etc., are now triggered no matter how you behave.

And, seeing all that, it's also important to think about how much you're willing to accept. How much are you will to sacrifice of yourself, hoping her behaviour changes?

[JJacks0]

I think that's one of the reasons I'm struggling so much right now. I see how she perceived abandonment and I feel so much guilt about that. I never meant to hurt her that way, I never wanted to leave her for good or abandon her.

I wish I had known then what I know now, but I didn't have a the knowledge. I did research BPD when I first felt she may have been diagnosed incorrectly. She is technically diagnosed as bipolar but this diagnosis was made when she was a child. I have no doubt in my mind that this is inaccurate. I'm not a professional but I'm quite sure that is incorrect. She exhibits nearly ALL the traits associated with BPD. But when I researched BPD I somehow always missed this site - I never realized the depth of abandonment issues or really understood how I was triggering her. If we could start all over I really think things would be different. I think that's what hurts the most. I feel like I let her down.

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm sorry JJ, I understand.

You might cut yourself a little slack in that it's her disorder to manage, plus the feelings of abandonment can come from impressions she got of something, that have nothing to do with reality or actual intent; taking that on can be like navigating a minefield.  And it was her choice to move.  Not to discount how you feel, but those things are true.

[rfriesen]

I see how she perceived abandonment and I feel so much guilt about that. I never meant to hurt her that way, I never wanted to leave her for good or abandon her.
... .
I think that's what hurts the most. I feel like I let her down.

JJacks, I know this pain. I think many others on this site do as well. This particular kind of pain, of guilt, of feeling like I let down the person I loved most because I just didn't quite understand soon enough, that if only she could see what I really intended she would feel safe, ... .trust me, I can relate. This was emotional agony for me, and it still hurts a lot.

I felt I was willing to take on all the responsibility for her pain and mine, that I could see what she needed and was willing to accept so much, if only she would just see that she was safe and accept my love for her. But that, precisely, is what she seemingly could not do. And it forced me to ask myself, can I really take all that responsibility to myself?

If your ex is unable to feel safe in an intimate relationship, you can take on all the blame you want, but it might not accomplish any more than driving yourself to despair. Again, I don't want to make any categorical statements -- every relationship is different and no one can predict the future with certainty. But it does not sound like a promising basis for a healthy relationship that you would take on all the blame for what goes wrong, no matter how trivial the reasons your ex finds for accusing you of letting her down, of abandoning her.

And maybe the more blame you're willing to take, the more she'll give? If you apologise for not squeezing her hand tightly enough at any given moment, will she then feel validated in thinking that's a sign that she was right to worry about what it meant? And the next time fear of abandonment grips her, for whatever reason, she'll be more likely to think her fear justified?

I'm not trying to tell you this is actually her reasoning, but only to point out that taking on all the blame for what goes wrong can be counter-productive, can leave you and her both feeling less safe. You cannot fix this single-handedly if she is not ready to work with you.

I know how hard it can be to let go of those feelings of guilt and responsibility. As though letting go of feeling guilty is a further betrayal and disappointment to her, as though it means you're giving up on her. That's often how the dynamics of these relationships play out -- we end up feeling guilty for not feeling guilty enough. But, again, your feeling guilty cannot save her and may only make her feel justified in her own fears of abandonment. So maybe beginning to let go of some of that guilt and sense of responsibility is the only way for you to move forward in your own life?

[Hlinthewiking]

JJacks0, considering my own experience, my interpretation is this: When she asked that question, she expected you to tell her the "right" answer, be her knight in shinning armor, when you didn't, no matter which excuse you had, no matter if you were dying with terminal cancer, she felt you failed on her thus triggered abandonment, she wanted to stay.

It doesn't matter what you tell her, it doesn't matter what you do for her, the only thing that matters is how she feels. I tried myself believe me, I looked into my exBPDgf's eyes very seriously, told her she was the most important thing in the world to me, that I would always be there for her, that I loved her more then life itself and that I wanted to be with her forever, I tried to do everything she asked me and more, if she felt good I could have done something simple and she would be very happy, if she was feeling bad I could have literally brought her the moon and I was the worst person in the world and it was all my fault.

The emotions are real, but don't transmit the reality, unless you can change her feelings, nothing you say or do will make her understand that you will never leave her, because you aren't yet and she's already feeling like you have.

Right now it looks like she painted you black, she likely blames you for all her bad emotions, not even she knows what will happen next, maybe she comes back, maybe she doesn't, even though she took a bigger step this time (pics).

[lovenature]

Unless she is willing to commit to years of therapy, and you are willing to stand by her through many more painful times, it won't change; as has been said here before-the disorder always wins.

To me the saddest part of this awful disorder is; the closer you get the more you are pushed away. The ones who love them the most are the ones they hurt the most.

I know how tough it is to remain NC, I have broken it many times before while trying to get my heart on the same page as my head. I wish you well with what you decide.

[Thread]

but what I'm struggling with is determining if I should just give up on this entirely or if she does still love me. This push/pull makes it so hard to discern what is real.

It's a really twisted highly toxic form of "love." Some of my Ts tell me it's not real. But I interpret that as its not the healthy kind of love we are wanting. With BPD their love is more to fill their cup. It's more based on them.

When I separated from my BPDH he fought so hard for me to accept him back. It took 3 months to return to his behaviors. And a year of separation of him fighting, showering me with kindness, but it was all to make him feel better about himself. It wasn't love. It wasn't selfless. It was self seeking.

Also do you really want her back? Do you want to willingly sign up for the roller coaster ride again which was making you sick aka feel crazy.

I did. Now 2 years later of money spent on specialized therapies, financial damage, mental turmoil for me, endless tears, loss of my business, harmed family relationships, back problems, acne problems, I'm regretting being sucked back into the trap. I was staring to feel better at the end of our separation. And the worse part is when you read the lessons on detaching it says often when us nons feel better we think we can go at it again. Or that maybe because we were so out of sorts it was us to blame. There are various reasons I went back.

But now I have to start the grieving process and self love process all over again. And it's sucks extra bad this time around.

My advise focus on you and self love.

[JJacks0]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Sorry for not responding sooner.

Also do you really want her back? Do you want to willingly sign up for the roller coaster ride again which was making you sick aka feel crazy.

This is a tough question to answer. In many ways I do want her back. In other ways I really don't know. I genuinely miss her personality (the person she was when not triggered) - her humor, her friendship, etc. She was my best friend. I have never felt that with anyone else, and I'm skeptical that I ever will. So in that respect, I'd love to have her in my life again.
My answer, along with nearly everyone else's on this board I'm sure, would be a resounding "yes", if I knew that she and I had worked on ourselves enough individually that there could be a potential healthy r/s in the future (and a commitment to therapy). Of course that may never happen. I haven't had contact with her in over a month and she doesn't seem to mind. I know there's no way of really knowing what someone is thinking, but I think she would have reached out to me by now if she missed me. She has never gone this long before. Prior to this, 9 days was the longest period of NC.

I've come up with a new question that I'm sort of mulling over now (forgive me if it's a bit repetitive). I'm still a little confused about her explanation for her behavior. As outlined in this timeline, she was consistently critiquing the way I behaved toward her (not holding hand tightly enough, not picking a fancy enough restaurant, wanting more affection, etc.) She would tell me what I was doing wrong, I would try to adjust it, and once I felt like I had actually done what she was asking me to do, she began to push me away.

Her explanation was that things didn't feel the same between us, and she was picking apart little things I did thinking that if I adjusted those things, her feelings would come back. But when I did adjust those things and she still didn't feel the way she used to, she realized that it was over. I guess this could be true... .but my take on a r/s is that there are ups and downs, you don't always feel exactly the same, but you can get back to places (or close to places) you once were. Lifelong marriages are not constantly in the honeymoon phase, the type of love that couples have for one another can shift and evolve throughout time and I know this to be true since I've lived it. She has too. So it just seemed like an odd excuse to give me. I feel like if you want something enough you put forth the effort and try to make it work. But it didn't really seem like she was trying.

I understand that her perceived abandonment would lead her to detach from me... .that makes sense. But I'm hung up on her explanation, especially since (as also outlined in the timeline) we went on several dates where she told me she felt a spark again, she was affectionate, and she was telling me that she loved me again. That just doesn't seem like something you'd do if you really don't have feelings for someone anymore.

Anyway, this post has ended up being more of a vent session than much else. Something just made me think of this today and I'm still a little perplexed by it. As always, any input is appreciated.  

[Imnotalone]

Wow incredible time stamping.
This has opened me up more than any other post. This is almost identical to my experience towards the end of the relationship with my ex.

Especially wondering if I will hear back from her. But I have come to terms with I won't. I found out about her cheating on me during a fight we had. She had it hidden away for months until I met with one of her friends after I broke things off with her for the way she treated me and she slipped and uncovered the whole thing.

I sent an email saying I found out. Her response was "you're seriously insane. You are crazy. Stop talking to me or I will get a restraining order for my own sanity."

No acknowledgement of her sad, shameful moment.

I will never hear from her again because of her own act trying to distract herself from other issues. So sad.

[JJacks0]

Hi Imnotalone,

I'm sorry to hear you're going through something similar. I checked out some of your other posts and I can definitely relate to the nightmares and painful memories (both good and bad are hard to think about).

Whenever I caught my ex in a lie or compromising position, she would do the same - deny, deny, deny. When I did ultimately get her to confess, she would lose it and threaten suicide, etc. People with BPD just cannot handle the shame they feel - to avoid it, she would just relentlessly lie even when I had solid evidence right in front of me. I'm convinced that she started to believe her own lies. It really is so  sad when you think about it.

How long has it been since you've had contact with your ex? What makes you sure she won't be reaching out to you again? At this point I feel like my ex won't ever be contacting me again either... .but who knows. For me that's one of the hardest parts. At what point do you really know it's the final discard? I've seen stories where an ex reaches out again after years. Makes me anxious to think about. 

[Imnotalone]

I'm all too familiar with the suicidal threats my friend... I'm sorry you also had that experience. It's not fair by any means and we think we are doing the right thing by abiding by their ultimatums.

I totally get behind them falling for their own lies. She was so adamant about things and built this facade that I believed real as well as everyone else in her life only to find out it was what it was. A facade.

I haven't been in contact for 3 weeks (longest we've gone without talking in the last year. I know that that's nothing but I feel the guilt she's running from is something she has no plans on facing.)

And yeah I really don't like the idea of her reaching out in years. I don't want it. I can't have it. She has taken enough from me and I have learned everything I can from her. I feel like she knows that, she went to such lengths of making her friends unfollow/ unfriend me on everything, even her not so close friends as if she sent a mass text to black ball me from her reach.

I do hope she one day gets the help she needs though. Or at least faces the pain she caused me. Even if I don't get the apology.

[shatra]

Heal to heel wrote--so she may contact you, and with your history together I'd consider it likely at some point, the only thing preventing it would be if she did something that she can feel great shame about, that might keep her away.

----True, but sometimes they deny or project their shame... .so it's possible they don't return if they think you are still upset with what they did... .in other words, they do you wrong, you get upset, they leave, and they don't return because you are aware they were "bad" even if they don't fully acknowledge the "bad" things they did

[JJacks0]

----True, but sometimes they deny or project their shame... .so it's possible they don't return if they think you are still upset with what they did... .in other words, they do you wrong, you get upset, they leave, and they don't return because you are aware they were "bad" even if they don't fully acknowledge the "bad" things they did

See, this is exactly what I'm worried about. I know she feels shame for how things have gone. The night of her final push/ pull, she told me she wanted to cut herself. She felt so guilty that she had pulled me in hours earlier, only to discard me again.

She made a comment weeks prior about how she's "so sick of this mental health stuff". I actually didn't even bring up "mental health", I just didn't like the way she was yelling at me and treating me. She wanted to discuss what she was yelling at me about, and I wanted her to calm down and deescalate things first. She always saw that as avoiding the issue and making it about her/putting blame onto her.  In the same conversation she told me that "this" (her mental health issues) could last forever and I just needed to accept that essentially and stop noticing it. True to an extent, but it felt like she was saying I just had to deal with whatever she threw at me as a result.

As mentioned in this timeline, she ditched me downtown during pridefest. And days later, when she lashed out at me on my birthday, it was because she realized I still was feeling badly about what had happened a few days earlier. She even said that she had thought me getting over it so quickly and even understanding her reason for doing it showed that I must love her SO much.  When I gave indication that I was reserved still from the incident, she couldn't take it.

These occurrences make me think that her capacity to deal with or accept fault is pretty non- existent. She does recognize it but avoids dealing with it at all costs. I think she would rather meet someone new at this point, who has no knowledge of any "bad" behavior and who isn't aware of any mental health issues period.

I've tried to tell her that I've forgiven everything from the past and just want to move on.
But she continued to do hurtful things and then expect me to immediately forget.

The thought of never seeing or speaking to her again is unbearable. But I'm not sure she'll be coming back if I'm a trigger. Lately I've been thinking about contacting her (not necessarily soon, but some day... ) just as a friend.  Not dropping anything serious. I want her to know I'm not sitting here angry or upset. And I'm hopeful that maybe we could at least have the beginnings of a friendship again.

[lovenature]

But she continued to do hurtful things and then expect me to immediately forget.

All about HER emotion of the moment; a PWBPD typically has the emotional maturity of a 3 year old, and they can't accept blame-too shameful for them.

And I'm hopeful that maybe we could at least have the beginnings of a friendship again.

Doubtful, PWBPD hate to loose attachments; many members (myself included) have tried to have a "friendship" with their ex.'s, they say they want to be friends, only to try and be intimate minutes later to keep you on the hook.
Honesty, trust, respect are qualities of a good friend; can your PWBPD provide these for you? Do you really want to give anymore of yourself away?

[JJacks0]

Honesty, trust, respect are qualities of a good friend; can your PWBPD provide these for you? Do you really want to give anymore of yourself away?

Can she offer me those things? At times, absolutely. Consistently, no. She has been in therapy (inconsistently) and I convinced her to enroll in a DBT program a few years ago (when I began to suspect that she could have BPD), but she did not complete it - she basically felt that it wasn't helping. She did use the workbook I got her though, and made a sincere effort. For a while I saw some substantial improvement, and it was great. I was really impressed with her initiative and became very hopeful. However, she hit a really difficult period last year when her mother passed away. That really shook up her world and I can't fault her for the way she acted in the aftermath. That would have an enormous effect on anyone, not to mention a pwBPD. So she started to slip again, and while I've seen it happen a dozen times prior, this time her reaction toward me was different - I can only assume that because her emotions were more intense than ever, she was more dysregulated than ever. (Sorry, tangent)... .

Your second question is tough to answer, because I'm sure I'm thinking with my heart more than my head right now. I feel like she's worth all of the suffering. I think the hardest part is wondering what it could have been like had I had the information then, that I do now. Although I see many people on other boards struggling even with these tools, I think I would be more willing to accept this as our fate if I knew I had given it my best shot. But as it is, I'd like to see what our dynamic could be like when I am more mindful of the way I react to her.

Doubtful, PWBPD hate to loose attachments; many members (myself included) have tried to have a "friendship" with their ex.'s, they say they want to be friends, only to try and be intimate minutes later to keep you on the hook.

So you're essentially saying that I likely won't be able to have any type of relationship with her again unless it is in the form of a recycle?
In that case, I should not expect to hear from her until/unless she is looking to be soothed/reattach?

[Infern0]

That makes a lot of sense. I wish I had known that sooner, I would have tried to find a way to stay living together without completely ignoring my own needs.

That being said, do you feel it's too far gone? I know she felt abandoned initially but I think I've made it quite clear since that I would never actually abandon her if we got back together. I had hoped that my efforts post-move would make her feel more secure.

I know no one can predict the future,  but based on typical behavior, do you think she'll ever come back to me?

Past behaviour is the best indicator of future behaviour.

She will likely be back at some point.

In the meantime you could learn about the disorder, take care of yourself and make an educated decision of what to do if/when she does come back.

[shatra]

Im not alone wrote---
And yeah I really don't like the idea of her reaching out in years. I don't want it. I can't have it. She has taken enough from me and I have learned everything I can from her. I feel like she knows that, she went to such lengths of making her friends unfollow/ unfriend me on everything, even her not so close friends as if she sent a mass text to black ball me from her reach.

------Why was she trying to get her friends to unfriend you? How would that benefit or satisfy her?

I do hope she one day gets the help she needs though. Or at least faces the pain she caused me. Even if I don't get the apology.

----I understand, but for me, an "apology" wouldn't be nearly enough! Would an apology really help you feel better?  I'm not arguing, just admiring someone who would feel better after just an apology... .