Struggles with knowing/accepting that BPD is a severe mental illness

[kc sunshine]

Do you all struggle with accepting BPD as a severe mental illness? I do. I mean, I know on one level that it is-- I've read all about it, I've seen it in both my ex and my ex's daughter--but still I find it difficult to wrap my head around. The analogy that comes to mind for what happened during the devaluation/discard period is that it was like she got rabies, and was unwittingly vicious towards me (but only me -- that's what makes it so hard to understand as an illness-- to others she was the same old loving, funny person!).

[pjstock42]

It's a balance for me. I accept that my ex has an untreated mental illness and educating myself on what BPD is did give me some explanation for the way she treated me. However; there were some things that she did that were just so cold, so hurtful & vindictive that I do think the BPD is just a piece of the puzzle with her and outside of that, she's really just a rotten person. So at the end of the day, I accept that she has a mental illness but I also don't fully absolve her of blame/responsibility for her actions. She is an adult, she is the only one who can help herself but she refuses to and would rather continue the cycle of destroying people's lives through toxic relationships.

[fromheeltoheal]

It helps to get and understanding of the clinical side of the disorder kc.  "Normal" development includes successfully detaching from our primary caregiver in the first few years of life, on our way to developing a real self of our own and becoming autonomous individuals; a borderline never does that, they bang up against the abandonment depression and never successfully transcend it, so a borderline spends their life looking to attach to people to become whole, since they don't have a fully formed self of their own, and once they attach, deal with the continual opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment, subconsciously, which creates the push/pull behavior and all the rest.  Does that start to make sense?  And how can you apply that to your ex?

[iluminati]

In my experience, when dealing with people with BPD, intimacy is the triggering factor.  To take your example, your ex-girlfriend is OK with the general public, because she isn't close with them.  There's no risk of the core wound of abandonment because you can't abandon something that wasn't yours in the first place. 

In my experience, it was life that convinced me it was a mental illness.  It's hard to understand in the middle of it, even with treatment, because they're no good way to separate the illness from your everyday reality.  Once that shifts, everything changes and becomes more clear.

[pjstock42]

In my experience, when dealing with people with BPD, intimacy is the triggering factor.  To take your example, your ex-girlfriend is OK with the general public, because she isn't close with them.  There's no risk of the core wound of abandonment because you can't abandon something that wasn't yours in the first place. 

This is an important point, thank you for mentioning this. I never really thought much about this but it makes a lot of sense in regards to my BPD ex gf and explains some of the things that she said/did. She always mentioned how she liked to be out in public, at a cafe/bar etc or just walking around. The place where we moved in together is very isolated and there is nowhere close by to walk to / be around people. She chose this place, but very quickly she was complaining about feeling isolated and not being able to go to the cafe every day, this was one of the things she pointed out while painting me to black via email after moving out with no warning. I never felt isolated here because the person whom I cared about the most was here with me, she must have felt isolated since the first day we got here because she didn't have any public areas to go to & be around people.

[kc sunshine]

This is all so helpful-- thank you. There is something so slippery about the disorder, so hard to wrap your mind around. There's the how she is with other people and how she was with me split-- but also the challenging thing of being one way with me most of the time and then another as it was all falling apart. I am grateful for you all here helping me to make sense of it all, and also of the work her previous girlfriend and therapist did in giving a name to the illness. 

[Moselle]

to others she was the same old loving, funny person!

This makes it tough to handle for me. Because my ex is so high functioning , it is completely invisible to people around her.

Its very easy to wonder if it is our imagination. Even after knowing what we know

Its real, and it's serious. For the reasons FHTH highlights. It creates havoc with loved ones

[enlighten me]

We all have to come to a conclusion that fits our own mindset. For me as an engineer whats fits for me is that mental illness is an actual physical condition. Before people jump all over me on this I say again it is what works for me and may not be factual.

I see it as parts of the brain not functioing how they should. Whether they are damaged, under developed or over developed they just dont function as they should. My analogy for this would be a car. If you have an engine thats the wrong size then the car could function quite happily until pushed. It could potter along in town without any problems but when you demand too much it fails. Ive seen this with my exs. They function perfectly well (or appear to) but with emotional strain they break.

Find something that works for your mindset and im sure you will become more comfortable with things.

[woundedPhoenix]

hehe, i remember a therapy session months ago where i pretty much asked my therapist to tell me HOW serious this condition, coupled with the comorbids, actually is.
Rationally i knew the answer, emotionally i was not ready to believe it cause the emotional evidence present was rather confusing.

I think the hardest part in accepting that it is a severe mental illness, is due to

- the BPDs extreme efforts and capability to hide it so well and even overcompensate.
- our own tendency to see the above as their 'real' character and the episodes as 'BPD'

[fromheeltoheal]

- our own tendency to see the above as their 'real' character and the episodes as 'BPD'

That's good!  A personality disorder is hardwired into the personality, so there is no distinguishing between someone and their disorder, it's who they are, as is true for all of our personalities, and integrating someone's behavior, good and bad, into one person is helpful in understanding and detaching.

[kc sunshine]

And what did the therapist say?

My therapist said that mine had what sounded like a "raging" case of BPD and instructed me to pack my bags and get out of town to try to escape the push/pull.  I followed her advice but man it still hurts. And it's hard to know if I was just characterizing things in an extreme way.

hehe, i remember a therapy session months ago where i pretty much asked my therapist to tell me HOW serious this condition, coupled with the comorbids, actually is.
Rationally i knew the answer, emotionally i was not ready to believe it cause the emotional evidence present was rather confusing.

I think the hardest part in accepting that it is a severe mental illness, is due to

- the BPDs extreme efforts and capability to hide it so well and even overcompensate.
- our own tendency to see the above as their 'real' character and the episodes as 'BPD'

[JQ]

Hi KC,

We've talked several times and I see another phase you're going through that I had to grow through too. WE all try to "accept" the diagnoses of BPD, "a VERY Serious Cluster B Mental Illness" for our respective loved one, as hard as it is to understand & to come to grips with. I am no different than you or anyone here giving you some really good guidance from their own experiences. Regardless I think most of us "NONs" would agree it has been one of the most difficult & hardest life learning lessons to learn.

It was hard for me to understand how someone "my exBPDgf" who was Ivy league educated with 2 Masters could behave in such a way to hurt those who wanted to show & give her what she wanted all her life but was INCAPABLE of accepting it. The key word here is INCAPABLE ... .KC. As you know I dove deep into this after I learned of her condition. I attended at her request therapy sessions with her therapist in order to try & understand it better for myself. I read book after book, researched Harvard Medical School papers, National Mental Health Institute, Yale Psychiatry, and other renowned & respected mental health teaching facilities. I've had my own therapy sessions educating me on BPD and more importantly educating me on how & why I became a NON or codependent that subconsciously at times sought out a r/s with these type of people.

I learned about their extreme fears of "engulfment & abandonment" and the behaviors that follow. I have been a victim of Push/Pull behavior of not only my most recent exBPDgf but of my BPD step mother, step sister & 1/2 brother in addition to my first exBPDgf who continues to pursue me to this day. No one can wave a magic wand, say magic words to help you get to a place that you need to be in order to accept that BPD is currently beyond modern medical pharma, surgical or "talk therapy". In other words there is no cure but some would like to believe there is some "management of behavior" which they want to believe and accept as a compromise in their own life. I am no one to judge and if this get them through the day and they truly accept the lifetime mental illness with all that comes with it then i truly wish them all the best. 

They are & will forever be broken human beings. It's why you read time and time again that professional Mental Health Therapist & Ph.d's will shy away from or have limited contact with those who have BPD. AS sad as it is, they're in the profession to help those with mental illness but when the professionals can't or won't engage the most broken of the broken it should send a signal to us who are just trying to understand enough to help ourselves find a better place in this r/s filled with nothing but pain, chaos, hurt, deceit, confusion, etc.

heeltoheal, "personality disorder is hardwired into the personality, so there is no distinguishing between someone and their disorder, it's who they are"

Enlighten, "I see it as parts of the brain not functioing how they should. Whether they are damaged, under developed or over developed they just don't function as they should."

Within the last month scientist have released new MRI scans of the brain & found 97 new sections of the brain previously unknown, where as only 83 had been known from the last 150 years of research. This study would seem to indicate that both Heeltoheal & Enlghtme are correct in their understanding of BPD. And from my research & personal experience of my step mother/sister & 1/2 brother this condition can be passed on to children ... .in part it genetic. Like passing down eye or hair color in your genes you can pass down Very Serious Mental Illness to others. www.sciencealert.com/scientists-just-identified-almost-100-new-regions-in-the-brain-s-cerebral-cortex

KC, I hope that you find solace in knowing that NOTHING you, me, everyone in the group, Mental Health professionals & current medical science can do to change or cure this mental illness. It is beyond our control to affect change. Even you said, "My therapist said that mine had what sounded like a "raging" case of BPD and instructed me to pack my bags and get out of town to try to escape the push/pull".

When I finally accepted it the path forward was a little easier. Notice I said "little easier", NOT perfect. You also know that I have said, "you will stumble on your journey as we all have", and we ALL do. It hurts, it sucks, at times doesn't make sense but we know that NOTHING with BPD will make sense right?  We all must travel our own BPD acceptance path & the only thing we the group can do is to be there to hold out a hand when you stumble & you know we will be there with our hands out waiting for you to take it. 

I hold no ill will, hate or wish anyone in my life past or present who has BPD more pain. They've have had & will continue to have a lifetime of pain & suffering. No one would do the things our respective BPD's have done on purpose only to hurt themselves in the end. Because it deals with personalities & the brain perhaps it's harder to accept for some. Something that helped me understand & put things in perspective was that I look at BPD as a physical defect like other physical defects you can see like a child born with physical abnormalities like no hands, arms or legs only we can see that physical defect. You can't see the physical defect of a baby born with a heart defect but it's there. You can't see the brain defect but it's there.

In your journey you must look at your history and find out why you are the NON that you are. Why you are the codependent that you are, it's hard, it's painful & can lead to some ugly truths about your past. But until you're really honest with yourself and I mean REALLY honest with yourself then your path will be harder then it has to be.

I truly wish you a peace & strength on your journey KC ... .I hope that your path is full of enlightenment & that you will find what helps you live YOUR life for YOU!

J

[kc sunshine]

Thanks so much JC-- I always love your posts and the generosity and depth of your responses. For me, it's been a process of accepting first the diagnosis and then the severity of the diagnosis. At first, the BPD diagnosis helped make sense of things and also helped me to have a little distance from the rages etc. She also talked about it and so it was something interesting and also it felt good to be able to talk about it together (at our best times). Now it feels like I'm at a different level with it-- how severe it is. What do you all think about the research that says it improves over time? This seems hopeful.

It definitely does run in my ex's family-- her mom has it, she has it, and her daughter has it.

JQ, how did you move from knowledge about the illness to an acceptance of it? I feel like I have some knowledge of BPD but not total acceptance of it. Maybe part of the not accepting it is the self-blame part. I have some self-blame that I made it worse (by my traveling lifestyle, by my ex that I had to stay in contact with because of kids, by my decision to move to another city which triggered her abandonment fears even though she was considering moving with me). Maybe my struggle with acceptance has to do with guilt?

Thanks gang for being with me through this difficult time. 


 

[woundedPhoenix]

Maybe part of the not accepting it is the self-blame part. I have some self-blame that I made it worse (by my traveling lifestyle, by my ex that I had to stay in contact with because of kids, by my decision to move to another city which triggered her abandonment fears even though she was considering moving with me). Maybe my struggle with acceptance has to do with guilt?

hey KC, the self-blame is the worst, in any relationship we make mistakes, but in this particular type of relationship, every mistake has huge consequences.
it's indeed whats blocking your road to acceptance i think as you still see options to correct things in hindsight.

I have been talking about that with a friend a while back.
His view on the matter is somewhat unorthodox but i think he is right in this:

"If you would have managed to be the perfect guy that never made a mistake and was always there,
it would have become a relationship that is so freaking stable that a BPD would feel uncomfortable,
and create disturbing chaos factors themselves. It's better that the chaos comes from you
so you can control it. if the chaos comes from a BPD, things stay out of control real fast"

[enlighten me]

I take the blame for my role in the dysfunctional dance that is a BPD relationship.  I dont blame myself for the outcome though and I dont blame my exgf.

As woundedPhoenix said even the most perfect partner would eventually fail. People could call it engulfment fears on behalf of the person with BPD. I saw it more as not being able to handle the calm. For my exgf everything was a drama. The school run turned into the opening car chase in a james bond film (maybe a slight exageration but there where quite a few tales of near death experiences on that seven minute car journey).

My ex wife has no conversation unless iys drama fuelled. Her own mum said that only yesterday.

Whatever the drama does for them it kept some of the BPD behaviour at bay. Maybe the lack of drama means that theyre not getting their fix so have to create drama to get a hit.

All I know is that even if I was a mind reader I wouldnt have been able to keep up with what she wanted from one moment to the next. If a mind reader couldnt do it then what chance did I have?

[drained1996]

- our own tendency to see the above as their 'real' character and the episodes as 'BPD'

That's good!  A personality disorder is hardwired into the personality, so there is no distinguishing between someone and their disorder, it's who they are, as is true for all of our personalities, and integrating someone's behavior, good and bad, into one person is helpful in understanding and detaching.

To add to this thought process, remember that BPD's react to how they feel in the present.  They don't have the ability to evaluate us as a person overall at a time when they have a bad feeling... .or maybe any other, only that's how they feel in that exact moment whether or not we had anything to do with that feeling.  Essentially, they feel ok and we are all good and white... .or they feel bad, dysregulate, and we are the devil.  All that is emotionally dis-ordered and illogical to us... .and illogical is difficult to understand.  As FHTH said, "there is no distinguishing from someone and their disorder, it's who they are." 

[JQ]

What do you all think about the research that says it improves over time? This seems hopeful.

It definitely does run in my ex's family-- her mom has it, she has it, and her daughter has it.

JQ, how did you move from knowledge about the illness to an acceptance of it? I feel like I have some knowledge of BPD but not total acceptance of it. Maybe part of the not accepting it is the self-blame part. I have some self-blame that I made it worse (by my traveling lifestyle, by my ex that I had to stay in contact with because of kids, by my decision to move to another city which triggered her abandonment fears even though she was considering moving with me). Maybe my struggle with acceptance has to do with guilt?

KC ... .STOP BLAMING YOURSELF! This is part of the acceptance process. What makes you think that you could of "controlled it" "managed it" by limiting your travel, your contact with your ex because of your kids or for making personal choices for YOU & YOUR lifestyle?

I can't tell you what worked for me in regards to acceptance will work for you or anyone else on these boards KC. I wish I could because I know first hand how much you & others hurt. How much you & others torture yourself day in and day out for your actions or lack of actions, things you said or didn't say & your pwBPD goes on a torrid rage destroying everything in their path. No ONE thing is responsible for my "acceptance" but it was a series of events, therapy, reading & researching and finally realization that I was ignorantly uneducated on BPD but mostly uneducated about myself.

KC ... .Let me ask you & the group a pretty up front question. What makes you think that you can make a difference in the tortured & twisted mind of someone who suffered from BPD to have any type of a r/s with? There are countless stories of people who are very highly educated, Clinical Therapist, Clinical Physiologist and Ph.d's who have refuse to engage or have any patient who is BPD because of the chaos & seemly unending issues that come with them in a treatment setting. My exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy with all of them for 30 plus years with little affect. I can say she is self aware of her BPD & there are moment of clarity & truth but those moments are far & few between.

When her therapist told me in front of her during a session that there would be very little chance of having a completely monogamous r/s with her THAT should be a big freaking red flag for everyone. When she idealizes suicide in front of the doctor, THAT should be a clue for everyone. When we're having one of those moments of "clarity" & she tells me she can't stand there & tell me she won't cheat on me, THAT should be a clue. When she lies to me, her therapist, & anyone else who has a in depth r/s with her ... .THAT should be a big a$$ red flag. These things & more like them help me come to accept the condition.

When I read article after article that BPD is a Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness & there are studies to suggest that the neuro-highways within the brain have off ramps that don't connect, that helps me accept things. When I read that there are studies to suggest that there are brain physical abnormalities that helps me accept things. When I read that Mental Health Professionals would rather NOT to treat the most broken of the broken that helps me accept things and they are truly beyond my or anyone else ability to get to a "manageable level".

When I see that my step mother/sister & 1/2 brother all exhibit the same behavior & after a lifetime of living with their flying monkey's I do NOT want the rest of my life filled with trying to catch her flying monkey's & put back in their cages. I can't affect change in any of these r/s ... .

BUT!  The thing that I truly believe helped me the most was finally learning about myself & why I was a codependent or a NON. AS someone else on another post wrote, "I spent my entire life being the care giver, the supporter of my family in order to try & maintain some type of r/s with them. I was maintaining the r/s with them to maybe finally hear the words I've spent my life wanting to hear but they never came. It was a one way r/s with me always giving of myself & receiving nothing in return. NO r/s can survive that & be meaningful. It HAS to be a 2 way give & take in order to be any type of r/s worth having. I challenge ANYONE in the group to tell me that their r/s with their respectful pwBPD has been a meaningful 2 way give & take r/s worth having.

I spent my entire life receiving meaning in my life through the happiness & success of others before myself. I sacrificed myself time & time again. Once I learned I had self worth & it didn't have to involve making someone else happy then my life became a whole lot easier & happier. Once I learned why I was a codependent I could FINALLY make the changes i needed to. I installed & maintained boundaries with consequences for my "family" which made them rage without equal. Me putting in boundaries to protect myself was new to them. They could no longer "guilt" me or manipulate me into the same ol' drama filled flying monkey situation of their doing. Setting these boundaries with my family helped me set & maintain boundaries with my exBPDgf. I look back now & I can truly say I welcome NC because it helped me learn about myself and get stronger without the drama she would induce.

I could simply walk away ... .and I did. It is VERY liberating and freeing when you can do that and not look back. MY life is MINE & I refuse to have anyone control me or manipulate me anymore. If you ask me what helped me get to the point of acceptance ... .

J

[myself]

Part of my acceptance has been to accept that it's difficult to accept it all.

[Thread]

When he recently started acting nice in morning to angry in the evening than back again as if nothing happened the night before - I now am fully aware he is so mentally ill. But when he cycles back to unknown amounts of time of kindness, I then start to consider that'll the crazy one :/

Fun times. I know it's crazy-making. It will end soon.

[enlighten me]

And that is the hardest thing to accept. The good and bad parts cant be seperated.It is easy when on the receiving end of the bad to see they have an issue. With the good though we talk ourselves out of it. I spent months wanting to leave my exgf but the tiniest bit of good from her would set me back to square one.

I was holding out for one big bust up but it never came. I felt that all the little sniping and silent treatment didnt justify me breaking up with her. In a way i was waiting for her to give me something that i could use as a definitive point for why we broke up.

[kc sunshine]

What do you all think about the research that says it gets better with age? I wonder what age that is and what is it about aging that decreases the symptoms.

[enlighten me]

I have read on other sites that the menopause can be a key point in BPD behaviour calming down. I have also read numerous post of people in old age still behaving the same.

If like a lot of research shows it is a physical condition with a genetic link then the effect hormones has on BPD behaviour could be a factor and post menopause when certain hormone levels are reduced then a change in behaviour is completely possible.

other factors to take into consideration are learned behaviour. If the above is true then why do only some change? It could be that they are so embedded in the behaviour that its second nature to them to do it. On the other hand if the above isnt true then they may over time have come to the realisation that their behaviour isnt getting them anywhere so they change.

Something else to throw in is brain plasticity. We have all seen stroke victims who have trained different parts of their brains to cope with tasks such as talking when the part of the brain that controls speach is damaged. Maybe if the BPD brain differs from the non then eventually the part of the brain causing the behaviour is bypassed. Could this be why dbt can be so effective with BPD?

My short answer is I dont know but there is still so much we dont understand about how the brain work that I believe in some cases it could get better.

[JQ]

What do you all think about the research that says it gets better with age? I wonder what age that is and what is it about aging that decreases the symptoms.

That's a pretty broad paint brush you painting with KC. My step mom is north of 70 & she's still batsh!t crazy letting her flying monkey's out of their cages seemingly more now then in days past ... .it seems like on a daily basis. She continues to throw temper tantrums, butt dial me, have major & more frequent emotional dysregulation, throwing stuff across the room, abuse meds & pain killers. ExBPDgf mother is still acting with her "normal" BPD behavior then in years past. My 1/2 brother seems to be getting worse ... .but then again he's abusing alcohol more today and will never see a therapist.

I think as EM has pointed out in SOME cases hormones and or DBT therapy might help but it's neither is a blanket statement & neither is the study to indicate that BPD improves with age like wine.

NO 2 people are alike and like treatment of some other medical ailments no two people will react the same to the drugs or surgery. Perhaps some do slightly improve with age, but it's not a full recovery of BPD behavior but a lessening of the behavior.  Those s/o in those BPD r/s have to decide if it is enough to continue the r/s. As in my step mothers partner of 25 plus years. I believe they do care for her but 25 years plus of the "r. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde" behavior that my step mother has unleashed on them day after day for over 25 yrs has certainly taken their toll on them both mentally & physically.

My 1st exBPDgf continues to pursue me and I'm currently painted white as she continues to text & or try to call me to talk, chit chat, wanting some type of r/s. Just six months ago she was calling me all kinds of things that I can't even begin to retype in these forums and I was painted the blackest of the black.  I was relieved not to hear from her ... .but as I have come to learn it was a matter of time before she reached out to me yet again. I've since blocked her on my phone. She's now approaching 50 & and no closer to "normal" behavior then she was 25 years ago.

If YOU truly want insight to BPD behavior and move forward in your life ... .I mean REALLY move forward then continue your path of self discovery and self love, self worth KC.  This should truly be your goal and not anything to do with your BPD or a r/s with them. IMHO

J

[once removed]

What do you all think about the research that says it gets better with age? I wonder what age that is and what is it about aging that decreases the symptoms.

https://bpdfamily.org/2015/02/85-of-pwBPD-go-into-remission-without.html

[Larmoyant]

My ex is in his early 50's and if he's got better with age then I dread to think what he was like previously. This makes me feel sad for him really, because he could be so nice at times. It must be a terrible way to live.

[Thread]

What I've been reading is that it gets worse unless they are taking responsibility for their behaviors and actually getting weekly help (for life) (for themselves and not trying to keep a relationship or for the non in their life)

I've seen my BPD/NPD H get worse. I've seen the abuse and manipulation get worse. I've seen the escalating happen more rapidly. I am clearly not exerting boundaries enough and am enabling the behavior by staying.

[kc sunshine]

That makes sense about menopause being a shifting point. Also perhaps finding and building a life that is less triggering and more stable-- I think my ex is actively working to do that with my replacement.

You make great points JQ about no two people are alike, and that other things like alcohol use/abuse play a big role. And that is super interesting your point that I will have more clarity-- and thus more understanding-- about BPD the farther I am away from it.

[patientandclear]

That makes sense about menopause being a shifting point. Also perhaps finding and building a life that is less triggering and more stable-- I think my ex is actively working to do that with my replacement.

Moving in together three weeks after beginning a new r/ship would not seem to be part of turning a new leaf in this regard.

[JQ]

That makes sense about menopause being a shifting point. Also perhaps finding and building a life that is less triggering and more stable-- I think my ex is actively working to do that with my replacement.

Moving in together three weeks after beginning a new r/ship would not seem to be part of turning a new leaf in this regard.

I would agree with you P&C ... .this behavior KC is the same behavior that she's always had at least in part ... .impulse control right?  Who would move in with someone after only 3 weeks of knowing this person?  Hell I wouldn't do that with a roommate situation much less a love interest. You never know who might be the series killer? LOL

This behavior of your pwBPD isn't about you or the "replacement" ... .it's about your BPD who has a Cluster B Mental Illness who has impulse control issues, has issues relating to other human beings on a personal one on one situation. Your exBPD is making rash, impulsive choices in their life because it's all they know how to do.

Separate yourself from it ... .look at the situation from a 3rd party perspective ... .if another friend was going through this what would you tell them knowing what you know about BPD?

J

[enlighten me]

Timelines are a dodgy area with BPD. My ex wife had her new boyfriend come and visit her a week after we split up for the second time. Her story is that she met him on line a couple of days after we had split. I know she had been writing to him for weeks and the discard was because she had hooked him.

The moral is never assume there is a defining point that they met the replacement. Ive seen it a lot on this site. So many just found out ex was seeing the replacement before we had split up threads.

Im not saying its always the case but if things appear to be quick then they may not be as they seem.