I feel like we should send a card.

[uniquename]

uBPDh is in law-enforced NC via a temporary protective order (hoping to get it extended for up to 2 years 9/9). I'm in self-enforced NC.

Today's our 16D's first day of school. I took the pic. Posted to FB (I've already blocked him). God I want to send it to him. I'm pretty sure I shouldn't.

His birthday is coming up. I feel like we should send a card. I'm pretty sure we shouldn't.

I've been to 3 CODA meetings but haven't asked for a sponsor yet. I need one.


Help.

[thisagain]

uBPDh is in law-enforced NC via a temporary protective order (hoping to get it extended for up to 2 years 9/9). I'm in self-enforced NC. 

I don't know if you have a lawyer for this, but do you think initiating any contact with him might blow your chance at extending the protective order?

And putting aside the legal matter, this is someone who you are afraid could really hurt you or your daughter, so much that you need a court order to keep him away from you. I know he's also someone who you've probably had happy moments with in the past, and you're hoping that the picture of your could be something nice that you could connect over... .but what is the chance that he'll respond in a positive, friendly way? Versus the risk that he could respond like the guy you have a restraining order against?

Hang in there!  We get how hard this is and we're here for you

[uniquename]

Yeah, I think I'm ok contacting him legally. But it'a inadvisable I'm sure.

As for his response, I did think about that after posting this. I texted a friend who's been through a divorce from a "walking on eggshells" type (undiagnosed) and she texted me back ":)on't even think about it." Told a friend at work too who knows what's going on and he also said it would likely hurt him not help him. I get that. I think he'd just be upset by it not feel anything positive. It's all in my head. I feel like I'm hurting him by withholding my normal response, and maybe I am, but I'd likely hurt him by not withholding it too. He's just in pain and going to be if and until he realizes his issues and gets a lot of treatment.

Thanks for recognizing the difficulty. It's very hard to express the feelings involved.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi UN-

Thoughts to consider: you daughter may or may not want an ongoing relationship with her father and she's almost an adult, so if she wants to send him the pic then she could, but you doing it is breaking the self-enforced NC.

To send someone a birthday card is to wish them a happy birthday; you may want him to be happy, but sending wishes that he is, is emotional re-engagement, not a good idea if you're trying to detach.  And again, if your daughter wants an ongoing relationship with him, then maybe she sends one.

It's difficult, a daughter's first day of school is something parents could share with joy, while remembering her childhood and what got her to this point.  I understand.   And with a protective order and not communicating, this relationship is done.  So now it's a matter of weathering the significant events and dates best you can, feeling the emotions around them while also taking what you can from the experience moving forward, and the hardest ones are the first ones, and when they come around again in a year you'll be able to celebrate how far you've come.  For now, hang in there, you're talking to us about it, so you're on track in your detachment.  Take care of you!

[uniquename]

Yep, trying. She had a good first day and I didn't break NC. Last we spoke on it, she had no desire to contact him at this point. I'm not planning to bring it up. As you'd expect from a 16-year-old whose been raised in a high-conflict parent relationship, she is quite mature. If she brings it up, I'll put in my two cents that she's more than welcome to. Of course, the order also covers her so maybe best not to this time... .

Another piece of advice I received, from my mom, who also has her own protective order on her last partner (can you say FOO issues?) was that if I'm thinking of contact, to replay some of the bad in my mind. Even just replay the bad he did to 16D so maybe not as traumatic/triggering to me. It seemed like a good idea. Thoughts?

[valet]

If you are self imposed NC why would you contact him?

That seems to violate your own terms of agreement to the idea.

I know that sounds harsh, but think on what it means to you. You don't need to imitate conversation to remember. You can do that on your own with a little focus.

What do you think?

[uniquename]

I guess I self-imposed NC in my head as
1) legal protection (if I contact him, he can reply to me and it would be hard to enforce the protective order)
2) because I couldn't handle it

I read through "No Contact the Right Way and Wrong Way" again https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

and I'm clearly struggling with a lot of that. His instability following my first-time boundary enforcement required me to be away from him. But now that I'm away, I am still not ready to end our relationship at times. I still have hopes he'll get better. I'm not ready to be alone after 16D is in college. I'm not ready to never share our joys anymore. I'm not ready but I have to be for my own and my daughter's protection. I know that in my head. I know it in my subconscious too. My feelings just need to catch up. It's going to take time.

So, I didn't mean "imitate conversation" but to recall why do I need this protection in the first place. He is disordered. He shows no signs of getting better anytime soon. He has made implied threats to my life. I believe he has fantasized about physically hurting our child. He has blamed us both for all his pain and put us through hours-long events of psychological torture.

I know he's done these things. But as I remove from it, I am "healing" and it gets better. I survived. Doesn't that prove to myself I could survive it again? He needs help. Who is going to help him? He's relied on me for 28 years.

Don't get me wrong, I know I must detach. I'm just being honest with what I am feeling and thinking that makes it so hard.

[fromheeltoheal]

I know he's done these things. But as I remove from it, I am "healing" and it gets better. I survived. Doesn't that prove to myself I could survive it again? He needs help. Who is going to help him? He's relied on me for 28 years.

I understand UN.  It's common once these relationships end to have a conflict between our heads and our hearts; our head knows what's right but our heart protests, against our better judgement.  That's because we are emotionally enmeshed with our exes and have a strong bond, and breaking that bond, which is what must happen to detach, goes against everything we've been immersed in, sometimes for a long time.

No contact is for us, the purpose being to detach emotionally, and it works.  You say he needs help and ask who's going to help him; that needs to be not your problem anymore, he needs to find his own help or help himself, and borderlines are survivors, they have to be to live with the disorder.  So it's about letting go, which is difficult when he's relied on you for 28 years, and that reliance has given you an identity too, something else that needs to be let go of.

The method your mother recommended can be useful, it worked for me.  You can make a list of all of the unacceptable and intolerable behaviors you accepted and tolerated anyway in the relationship, and the list will grow as you remember things, and then focus on that list and reread it as much as you need to, and most importantly focus on how each behavior made you feel, as an intentional focus shift to allow you to follow your head and put one foot in front of the other, until eventually your heart catches up.  It WILL happen, it takes what it takes, and the only way out is through.  And with time, once that bond is broken, you can have a more balanced, maybe compassionate view of your ex, which will feel better and be more accurate, although for now, focusing on the bad will help break that bond.

Take care of you!

[valet]

I know he's done these things. But as I remove from it, I am "healing" and it gets better. I survived. Doesn't that prove to myself I could survive it again? He needs help. Who is going to help him? He's relied on me for 28 years.

Don't get me wrong, I know I must detach. I'm just being honest with what I am feeling and thinking that makes it so hard.

I know what you mean here. I went through the same thing, thinking that if I waited around and offered my detached support that maybe it would make some kind of a dent. I'm sure it did, just not the kind off dent that I was hoping for.

That instinct to just 'be there' is an almost impossible one to fight. It's made especially confusing under your circumstances too—you were together for a long while and you have a kid together. That's no easy business. It makes sense that you feel the way that you do.

Here's what I've learned how to interpret the reality of this. You cannot help him. That sounds awfully morose, and even heartless, but that is the nature of growth. It has to be self driven. There is no relationship in the world that can change a person at the core if they are not willing to do the work themselves.

I encourage honesty, and you should be proud of expressing your feelings on the matter. That's a very mature thing to do, and not a whole lot of people have the courage to behave in the manner. That said, I would strongly recommend not initiating any sort of contact, no matter what you might think it could mean for him or you.

The end of these relationships can be a disembowelment. A lot of things must go, and I think its important to really attempt to put ourselves in a position where we can best discern what we keep and what we leave in the past. Re-engaging in any kind of a relationship with someone that is unstable will only upset that balance, especially when they were someone that we once shared so much with. Like what fromheeltoheal said, take care of you.

[uniquename]

How do you make yourself take care of yourself when you don't feel worth the effort?

[fromheeltoheal]

How do you make yourself take care of yourself when you don't feel worth the effort?

By first adjusting your opinion of yourself, which is just a matter of beliefs and focus.

Questions are good:

What do you do well?
What are your positive traits?
What are you most proud of?
Who is grateful to have you in their life?
What will believing you're not worth the effort cost you?
If you could have any kind of future you wanted, what would it look like?

No half measures here, gotta dive in all the way and come up with real answers, this is your life we're talking about here, and most importantly associate fully to how those answers make you feel.  We look forward to hearing those answers as soon as you have them... .

[valet]

Stop telling yourself you're not worth the effort.

You are.

[uniquename]

Thanks. I'm going to take a therapeutic break for now. I may be back. I appreciate everyone's help. I think I just need to concentrate on myself more and not uBPDh.
all my best. 

[fromheeltoheal]

I think I just need to concentrate on myself more and not uBPDh.

The questions I asked above were about you uniquename, not your ex.  I encourage you to dive in and take a shot at answering them, it will help, and this is a safe place.

[uniquename]

What do you do well?
Write. Speak. Think logically.

What are your positive traits?
Intelligence. Patience.

What are you most proud of?
My child. For a personal achievement, last year I did something very public that risked embarrassment and rejection but instead was resoundingly successful.

Who is grateful to have you in their life?
My mother, sister, some co-workers, friends, people I help.

What will believing you're not worth the effort cost you?
It could cost me my life. My family. My job.

If you could have any kind of future you wanted, what would it look like?
And this is where I'm not to acceptance yet. I would be with my husband, who is now well. We'd be living in the city near theaters. Working flexible hours or retired and have enough to live comfortably and go regularly to shows and movies. Travel more. My daughter successful and happy.

[fromheeltoheal]

What do you do well?
Write. Speak. Think logically.

What are your positive traits?
Intelligence. Patience.

What are you most proud of?
My child. For a personal achievement, last year I did something very public that risked embarrassment and rejection but instead was resoundingly successful.

Who is grateful to have you in their life?
My mother, sister, some co-workers, friends, people I help.

What will believing you're not worth the effort cost you?
It could cost me my life. My family. My job.

Nice UN!  Those answers sound good; did typing them out feel good?  Something with value you can own, as your own?

If you could have any kind of future you wanted, what would it look like?
And this is where I'm not to acceptance yet. I would be with my husband, who is now well. We'd be living in the city near theaters. Working flexible hours or retired and have enough to live comfortably and go regularly to shows and movies. Travel more. My daughter successful and happy.

Yes, good self awareness that acceptance of the reality of the situation is next.  Many of us spent time "fixing" things in the relationship, and once it ends, that drive to fix, including the vision of the how things would be if they were fixed, lingers after.  The solution is a letting go, a difficult one but not complicated, just let go, and that can be helped by creating a vision of a compelling future without him in in, something to aim for, something to move towards as you move away from the past.  Is it possible to come up with a grand future that includes all of the same things you mention except he's not in it?

[uniquename]

Those answers sound good; did typing them out feel good?  Something with value you can own, as your own?

Unfortunately no. Just being honest. I know rationally these things but it is not internalized.

Is it possible to come up with a grand future that includes all of the same things you mention except he's not in it?

Yes. You first asked what I wanted. Can I imagine it without him? Yes. I could be alone. Or I could have a good man with me. I think the first is more realistic but not ready to rule out the second. I just know that's going to be a long time before I'm ready to even date. He's the only man I've ever been with - we dated when I was in high school. It's hard to imagine but I can.

[fromheeltoheal]

Those answers sound good; did typing them out feel good?  Something with value you can own, as your own?

Unfortunately no. Just being honest. I know rationally these things but it is not internalized.

And the way to internalize something is practice it, notice what you're getting, notice what reactions you get from people, and those things act as references to support the belief that you write, speak, and think logically, are intelligent and patient, for example.  A matter of living there, in what you know you do well, until it's irrefutable to you.  Typing it is a great step, and it's only the first one.

Yes. You first asked what I wanted. Can I imagine it without him? Yes. I could be alone. Or I could have a good man with me. I think the first is more realistic but not ready to rule out the second. I just know that's going to be a long time before I'm ready to even date. He's the only man I've ever been with - we dated when I was in high school. It's hard to imagine but I can.

So while you're detaching, grieving, processing, growing, is it possible to do all the things you want to do without a mate?  Theaters, travel, enjoying your daughters success, all possible without someone, and if you were to build a life for yourself around those things and become happy and content in it, you'll also become pretty attractive to whomever might show up.  What if you embarked on Project You for a while, something you might never have done if you were with him since high school, no time like the present?