More morning weirdness. We are both going to Psychologist today

[formflier]

Part of this is post for here.  Part of this is to help me organize what happened this morning by writing it down.  I'm open to advice as to how I handled it.

Schedule:  Lots of therapy today.  First... physical therapy... .then my regular weekly appointment with psychologist (just me) and then an add on appointment later this afternoon where my wife will accompany me.
  
Here is my guess at how the joint appointment will go.  Really a guess as P and I haven't discussed in detail.  I bet we show up... .talk 5-10 minutes and the P will ask me to go for walk and come back when she texts.  (hehe... .now I am on record with my guess... we'll see how close I am).

Big picture:  Last couple nights my wife has been super amorous.  Perhaps the pattern is that when stressed the nights are "happy" and mornings are "grumpy".  Not sure because sometimes nights are bad as well.  Mornings are usually grumpy.

So... .ff wife had asked me to handle a medical form for one of kids today last night.  This morning I was asking her where the form was.  She was avoidant and short.  Said she would handle it.

In the not so distant past I would have been asking to "help understand" the change.  I focused on short and to the point.  I said "Ok... .I'm happy to help you with that form if needed"


She is working on form in other room... .alone.  Begins making a loud speech so everyone in house can hear it... .

"FF remember the stapler that was in her on the desk.  Where has it been moved to?"  

my response.  "I don't know.  I use paper clips and I believe there are plenty in the top left drawer"

ff wife:  "So you are telling me that you did not move the stapler?"

me:  "no that's not what I'm telling you"

(again... .all loud and across a couple rooms (likely would have been better had I gotten up to talk in person)

ff wife:  unintelligible grumbling.  "So you are telling me you did move the stapler?"

me:  "No, I'm not saying that either.  I haven't used the stapler since we moved in.  My habit is that I use paper clips.  That is what I am telling you"

ff wife:  grumbling

Issue seems over

Note:  The medical paper relates to the nurse practitioner (our family physician) that put on my social security disability paper "ff has trouble relating to others" due to PTSD.  That is the phrase my wife has seized upon to declare me unfit to keep D3 while she works.

So.  Wife tells me that paper is done.  I ask if it would help if I sent it as I was going to be faxing some stuff to them anyway.  

Wife gets weird voice and asks if there is any other reason I would want to go "drop it off".  

I said that I don't "drop papers off" that I use fax machine to send things digitally and save time.

She says:  "So, you were going to fax it?... .Ohh... .the fax machine"  Then walks around the house laughing loudly and dramatically... .for a long time.  10-15 seconds or so.

I didn't bite.

By this time in morning we had already had family devotions where we read from Bible and prayed together.  After the laughing thing she gather kids (loudly) and asked them if they wanted to pray.  I was stretching and doing physical therapy exercises in the next room.  Since I wasn't asked directly... .I stayed out of it.

Very loudly she prayed "at" everyone that people would not "get what they want" but that people would "do the right thing"

Then a long thing about "those that are unsaved"... .(my wife has been hinting around for a while that she thinks I am unsaved).  Likely how she is going to wiggle out of my "headship" by claiming that she is "unequally yoked" to an unbeliever.

That gets over.

She goes into office and I stop by and am talking to youngest daughter that are in there playing.  Surprisingly pleasant conversation with my wife.  Fun with girls.  All of a sudden my wife says...

"i've logged you out of your account and I have stuff I need to get done before I have to leave"

me "Oh... do you want me to leave the room?


FF wife:  "yes"

I leave with girls and we go play in next room.

Thoughts?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

OK, FF, you're asking for a dissection of the morning's convo:

ff wife:  "So you are telling me that you did not move the stapler?"

me:  "no that's not what I'm telling you"

(again... .all loud and across a couple rooms (likely would have been better had I gotten up to talk in person)

ff wife:  unintelligible grumbling.  "So you are telling me you did move the stapler?"

me:  "No, I'm not saying that either.  I haven't used the stapler since we moved in.  My habit is that I use paper clips.  That is what I am telling you"

ff wife:  grumbling

This exchange made me uncomfortable. Your initial response to your wife seemed evasive. I can understand answering like this considering that it's been months that you've been living in this house and you might not have moved the stapler in the last couple of weeks, but you don't necessarily recall if you could have moved it a few months ago.

You two have eight kids! Who knows who might have touched it? It seems she's trying to assign blame to you and you're ducking the charge. I bet that happens a lot.

I think a response that wouldn't have necessitated her asking a followup question would be: "I don't know where it is if it's not on the desk. I don't use it; I use paper clips." Always easy, especially for an outsider, to play Monday morning quarterback.

So what I'm hearing with the fax part of your conversation is that she's afraid you're not going to send/deliver the form or that you're somehow going to monkey with what she's written. The laughing, the loud prayer--all of that seems designed to piss you off.

If I were in your shoes, I would be seriously pissed. Frankly this is really nasty agitation. Good for you to be able to let it slide. 

[formflier]

Big picture:  I don't think we have had a functional stapler since we moved in.  January time frame.  Occasionally it comes up in conversation then gets dropped for months.

My office habit is to use paperclips... .that way a staple puller (another device a kid can run off with... .) is not needed.

I like your proposed response... .will try to use that in future events like this.

or... .head to that room and ask how I can be of help.  I was doing something in another room with some other kids.  :)idn't really want to stop doing that... .

FF

[Hmcbart]

I have gotten to the point that I answer her once and if she asks again I ignore her. 

She has however gotten so bad now that instead of coming down the stairs to ask me a question she will text me. Sometimes she just wants me to bring her something but if I'm doing something else I don't bother with it anymore.  The real fun part is when she gets mad because I didn't respond to her text that I didn't know she sent because the phone is in the other room.

But I digress, for me at the moment I think you did the right thing in not taking the bait.  Something that, for me anyway, is very difficult to do a lot of the time.

[Fian]

It sounds like to me that she is writing things on the form that she does not want you to see.  She is trying to set you up as unsuitable to take care of D3, and doesn't want you to interfere, which you would do if you saw what she wrote.

[Notwendy]

I am with Cat on being vague about the response. A direct " I did not move it" or "I did move it" or "I don't remember" would have been better. I get what you are trying to say, but a vague response is unsettling.

My H does that, it makes me crazy. If he thinks he is being blamed for something, he will be evasive. Honestly, moving the stapler is annoying, but not the crime of the century. I believe if one is trying to avoid a triggering response by being evasive- that is triggering as well. Maybe better to just get the wrath for moving the stapler  ( if you did ) or not remembering, and be done with it.

Answers that appear to be evasive make me feel irritated, and I don't like it. Your wife may feel this way too. The difference would be in how we react to that.

"Unsaved" ? I don't know how she would come up with that one for you. I think I'd just ignore that. There's a Higher Power who will make the call on that one. 

[formflier]

Psychologist visit went well.  We stayed together.

Psychologist asked her to come back by herself in a few days.  Not really a firm response from my wife on that.

Psychologist made it about "stabilizing the family"

FF

more later

[formflier]

So, you guys can imagine the pretty standard accusations and stories.  They were all there.  However, the Psychologist kept things calm, tried to focus on understanding and gently  trying to pin my wife down on what the concern was.

Very interesting to watch as she would press, then my wife would start verbally trying to not be pinned down and to see the Psychologist "ease up", validate and seek common ground.

I said very little.  At one point the Psychologist asked if my wife would be more comfortable if I left, my wife said it was fine for me to stay.

The meeting was ended with my wife pressing for a "decision" on me and my fitness and the P redirected it saying "she needed time to process" and that the goal was to "stabilize the family" and that we needed to take steps toward that.

My wife was invited back for later in the week.  That appointment still needs to be worked out.

So, I think it went well.  I'm not going to engage much on the issues other than to focus on "the next step".  Which is for her to go back to "help the P understand" and work out ways to stabilize things.

So... .it's "about the family", not about my wife.

Fingers crossed.

FF

[KateCat]

It's got to be some comfort to know that you now have this well-qualified therapist as a witness.

Did your wife say things in this session that were pretty clearly delusional? If your wife didn't hold back, then that will probably be of help to the psychologist too.

The goal of stabilizing the family sounds like something all can agree with, at least in theory.

Kudos to you for pursuing this help so diligently. It's pretty hard to imagine just exactly what goes through your wife's mind. Maybe a challenge for a professional too.

[formflier]

Not nearly as delusional as first time. 

Still had hard time articulating THE concern.  P clearly identified and my wife agreed that she had lot of anxiety about things.

That right now instead of further aggravating my wife's anxiety we should focus on stabilizing family.

Wife didn't fight the notion of her having " anxiety".
FF

[Notwendy]

FF, from what you have said, I think you have a skilled T. I would let her take the lead on how this will go.

I so badly wanted my H to go to marital T with me- for years but he refused ( he also refused personal T - as far as he is concerned, he doesn't need it )

However, I went. I think he believed that I went mostly for my FOO issues, and specifically problems with my mother. Well this was partially true, but my H would not consider that we had issues that he had a part in. So,  I got to be the one who "needed T".

After a few sessions with one T, the T suggested he come in too. He sat there silent, and then walked out on T. I asked him why, and he said " the two of you were ganging up on me, I felt attacked". That wasn't the case, but it was how he saw it.

His main reason for not going to MC is that he is convinced that MC leads to divorce. He was certain that the MC would tell us to do that. So some time went by until he realized things were heading down that path anyway and finally agreed to go. But recalling the "gang up" feelings, I made sure we saw someone who I had no relationship with, and an MC of his choosing.

Our sessions often focused on me and "my codependency". It was infuriating. I got the label, he went label free. I felt like I was being blamed- and that was triggering. Yet, he stayed and the MC got him to look at some issues without ever using labels- and it worked. Later I realized that she was wise to do it this way, as he would have likely just walked out again had she pushed things with him. She knew she could push me to look at myself as I was motivated to do so.

Your P may use terms like "anxiety" and not full labels. She may seem to side with your wife in some discussions. She may appear to be more critical of you. Your task, I think ,is that knowing she is skilled- trust the process. It may be effective.

[formflier]

Your P may use terms like "anxiety" and not full labels. She may seem to side with your wife in some discussions. She may appear to be more critical of you. Your task, I think ,is that knowing she is skilled- trust the process. It may be effective.

I agree.  This is pretty much the strategy. 

The only place that I (twice) spoke up is when my words were being twisted... .and had been twisted also my MC.

History:  Biblical MC "called me out" several times for being selfish and walking away from conflict.  That I was "thinking of my self"... .vice trying to be like Christ.  He badgered me for a while about "why".  I said that it was my responsibility when I am feeling attacked or when I am hearing provocative things to remove myself from the situation to take responsibility so that I don't "snap" or "fight back".

He writes in an email to us both after counseling that "Allen needs to get counseling so he doesn't (in his words) snap".

While ignoring the very narrow situation that I described or my wife's behavior... .he focuesed on "snapping".

My wife read that email and I explained it was out of context.  Things calmed.  Towards the end of our session my wife went back to that and I again protested and clearly stated that given my wife's understanding that I "never said or meant that" she is still claiming I "said or meant that".

Then I hushed (there was lots of make a quick point and hushing... .   )

The P then stepped in and said... ."So  FF... .you don't feel you are understood"  Absolutely brilliant... .

She then gently pivoted to my wife and got her agreement that "FF doesn't feel understood"... .then quickly pivoted to gain alliance with my wife by citing research that says basically "men physiologically feel attacked much quicker than women"

Basically if you hook up wires to men and women (husbands and wives)... .most men will "be done" with a conversation when women are "just getting started".

It was amazing to watch my wife relax and "ally" herself with the P as they were "both women" and need to be understanding of those that "don't operate on our level".

Make a point... .don't linger... .move on.  Pivot to stabilizing the family.

Never once did I hear anything that blamed my wife.  Several times I heard "Oh my goodness... .where did you hear that... .I didn't get that from what I heard"

That would follow "FF thinks blah blah blah"

Many times my wife claiming I was lieing that it was my lieing that made her distrust me.

She claimed I told the biblical marriage counselor that I said she pursued me out of the bedroom and was "flinging things all over the house".  She admits to the pursuit... .but claims she never threw anything.  I had never heard this story... .and started a small smile as I realized the miscommunication.

My wife made a bunch of comments about malevolent intent about my smile.  I stayed relaxed... .let my wife's words "burn out" and said "I was smiling because I see how the miscommunication took place.  If it is helpful to us... .I can clarify"

P waited for my wife to finally say yes... .she wanted clarity and I corrected that I said I didn't appreciate my wife "flinging words" at me as I tried to leave a conversation.

Behavior looks like this:  I say I am exiting and will be back later.  I leave room and close door.  Wife opens door... .hops out... ."flings" words at me (usually accusations) and hops back in the room and slams the door.  Or the "drive by" where she cruises through a room... flings words... .and keeps on going.

Wife says "Nope... .that's not what you said... .You said "blah blah blah""

I stayed quiet.  P again went to research that showed that in an argument both people rarely hear "accurately".

Pivot back to stabilize family... .pivot to "wife's anxiety" and "supporting my wife".

It was about an hour and 10 minutes. 

Oh... .final story.  At one point P asks my wife directly.  ":)o you think FF is a sociopath?"

FF wife says she doesn't know what that is.  P explains that it means there is no conscience. 

My wife finally says "I don't know... .I realize that I should know... ."

P  "That must be hard... ."

Silence for a while for it all to sink in.

Last note:  I didn't put all that in order.  Just as I remember different parts.

So... yes... .I believe we have the right P on the job...

FF

[Notwendy]

She then gently pivoted to my wife and got her agreement that "FF doesn't feel understood"... .then quickly pivoted to gain alliance with my wife by citing research that says basically "men physiologically feel attacked much quicker than women"

Basically if you hook up wires to men and women (husbands and wives)... .most men will "be done" with a conversation when women are "just getting started".

I need to keep this in mind. So true for us. I can just be getting started talking and my H was done! But the T worked on me- teaching me "economy of words" how to say things as short and distinct as possible if I want to be heard- so my H didn't tune out.

A P can work on one spouse or both to get positive change in the relationship. I think they may look at the partner who is more amenable to being called out.

[Cat Familiar]

I so badly wanted my H to go to marital T with me- for years but he refused ( he also refused personal T - as far as he is concerned, he doesn't need it )

However, I went. I think he believed that I went mostly for my FOO issues, and specifically problems with my mother. Well this was partially true, but my H would not consider that we had issues that he had a part in. So,  I got to be the one who "needed T".

After a few sessions with one T, the T suggested he come in too. He sat there silent, and then walked out on T. I asked him why, and he said " the two of you were ganging up on me, I felt attacked". That wasn't the case, but it was how he saw it.

His main reason for not going to MC is that he is convinced that MC leads to divorce. He was certain that the MC would tell us to do that.

This is almost word-for-word as to my experience with my husband. Same exact phrases: "I don't need it," "the two of you were ganging up on me." "I felt attacked," it "leads to divorce." It's astonishing the similarities in some of our stories!

[Cat Familiar]

FF, I'm so glad you're done with the BC. I could type all sorts of expletives describing what I think about him, but I'd be violating the rules for appropriate language. I've got to give you major props for putting up with him for all that time!  You're certainly getting to be a master of restraint!

I'm so glad that the session with your wife and the P went so well. She sounds very skilled and compassionate. Thank goodness! I hope your wife will be motivated to continue with her. I like how she has framed the issue about "stabilizing the family." Very wise.

Nice too how she supports different ways of processing information with research findings. Throwing logic in there creates a pathway to get out of the emotional response pattern.

I'm very impressed with your P!

[empath]

Your P may use terms like "anxiety" and not full labels.

I think they like to avoid the labels; that's only useful as a sort of shorthand for what is going on. My husband is aware of some of his personality 'traits' like impulsivity, emotional lability, depression, feeling powerless, etc. It seems like he has talked with his P about these things, and it sounds like she is describing each part of it without using the scary label.

[formflier]

Yes... important to use "safe descriptive labels" and also to gently assign responsibility.

There was absolute clarity that "ff wife is feeling anxious and ff is looking for ways to be supportive"

What is not said.  FF is not responsible... but is being supportive out of love.

FF wife "owns" the feeling... .and needs to take steps to work on it.

Little steps at a time.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

FF wife "owns" the feeling... .and needs to take steps to work on it.


This seems to be the heart of one of the major issues that nons have with pwBPD. They don't want to take responsibility for their feelings; they'd rather make it our problem. And if we're codependent, they get us to dance all over the place trying to placate them and make it all better.

Been there. Done that. Now I'm accused of "not caring" and frankly, I'm getting to that point. I really don't care about his little outbursts and thankfully they're less frequent. I'm starting to see this in behavioral modification terms.

Just like I finally have "trained" my young mare not to scratch on the ground in her stall when she is eager for her meal--well she still scratches, but she has now realized that she must stop if she wants to get fed. It took me a long time to realize that I was reinforcing a negative behavior by yelling at her to stop. So now I just ignore her and over time that behavior is extinguishing because it doesn't get her what she wants.

So, remembering that, I no longer respond to my husband's acting out by giving him attention. I leave. And I return when he can "behave himself."

[formflier]

 
Or we feel the need to "logically explain" to them "why" they should not feel and behave as they do.

Which I see as a nuance from "feeling responsible for" their feelings.

I could logically get that they were her feelings... .but my number 1 love language was "acts of service".  I would "feel" that if I solved her problems it would be an act of love.  It was for me... .but she did not experience it in that way.

FF

[HopefulDad]

FF, your humbleness will serve you well.  Your P knows you can handle being challenged directly much more than your wife, so remember that when sessions sometimes seem like they are going backwards or getting stuck in the mud.

I can relate to the others who mentioned about their (ex)spouses feeling ganged up and quitting.  My ex did the same with two MCs despite her picking both.  There is nothing you or your P can do about your wife feeling that way should it come to that.  She lives in a disordered world.  I say this only to help set expectations.  Make no mistake, though: The two of you seeing this very skilled P is without a doubt the best thing you can be doing.

[formflier]

So... .I'm going to see the P tomorrow afternoon.  Just me.

Big issue I want guidance with is what do I do with my current emotions about my wife.

Likely the best thing to do is express them to my P... .and let it go at that.

I intellectually get it that at the time my wife asked for forgiveness and "repented" of the bad things, to include saying only her parents could watch D3 last year.

There is still an emotional part of me that realizes that very little of what comes out of my wife's mouth about importance of me or our relationship... .is of any lasting value.  Add stress (or a trigger) and history is rewritten, not only in my wife's mind but she "grabs controls" of real life and bad things happen.

How do I match the intellectual RA work that I am and have done and match that up with the obvious emotional RA work that needs to be done?


Yes I get it that from a big picture view lots of progress has been made.  I'm also weary and honestly anxious about what level of weirdness is going to be "normal" for me in the future years.

There is real concern that I will have stamina to pull it off, coupled with odd logic of how my wife is approaching my disabilities.  One of her arguments is that since I am too disabled to work that I obviously can't watch children alone.

Today she asked how my appointments went today at the VA... .she walked away in mid sentence of my reply.  It was actually a frustrating day, the people were great and helpful... .but bureaucratic rules created frustration and delay.

Nothing critical... .but certainly frustrating.  I don't think my wife was baiting me but there was little in her actions to show she actually cared about what my day was like.

FF
 

[KateCat]

My opinion only:

Allowing yourself to have a full emotional experience of the tragedy of your wife's mental illness and its impact on her, on you, on your children, and on others, is important. Is in fact necessary.

What seems to me so valuable about your present psychologist is that she is not rushing to any course of action. Help her in this information-gathering stage of your participation with her by being as open as possible to expressing your emotions and your confusions. She needs to hear this too.

A psychiatrist I saw for a number of years told me not to show up to session trying to put on a rational, reasonable face. Be expressive--in a completely unguarded way--about your feelings. Don't edit them, even if they seem silly or unreasonable to you. The therapist gets the big picture in this way.

Your therapist already knows things aren't stable or ok in your family. And it will probably be helpful for her to know that you recognize that too.

Again, my opinion only. My opinion from personal experience is that paranoia is a serious illness and needs to be acknowledged and taken seriously by those seriously impacted by it.

[formflier]

Again, my opinion only. My opinion from personal experience is that paranoia is a serious illness and needs to be acknowledged and taken seriously by those seriously impacted by it.

KateCat,

I 100% agree with your opinion.  I also agree with consistent statements you have made about me likely not having enough RA or "too much optimism" for the future.  Basically that I may not be being truthful with myself about how bad her illness really is.

The good side:  I feel comfortable with my P and there are a number of times where she has said... ."Your wife or your Biblical Counselor really needs to see you express things in this way (with lot of emotion) vice the military mode I  many times get into where I focus on "having a difficult meeting and staying in control".  Many times that means squashing emotion and becoming robotic.

Things I am grieving.

1.  At her core my wife fundamentally believes I am a dishonest person.  Believes that I "tricked" the lie detector test that was involved in the court case where my "wife went to the other side".  She will tell me to my face she believes me and will say the right words, but when any amount of stress shows up.  FF is dishonest.  And she regularly takes dysfunctional action on that belief.

If it were "just" the belief... .that would be a bit more tolerable.

Sigh... .

I have an extra session on for today with P to work through my emotions and make sure I have a full understanding of how I can be supportive in "stabilizing the family" and keeping my wife going back to P.

Good news is... .my wife seems interested in going back.  I don't bring it up ... .don't want to "get in the way" of what P is trying to do.


FF

[KateCat]

At her core my wife fundamentally believes I am a dishonest person.  Believes that I "tricked" the lie detector test that was involved in the court case where my "wife went to the other side".  She will tell me to my face she believes me and will say the right words, but when any amount of stress shows up.  FF is dishonest.  And she regularly takes dysfunctional action on that belief.

It boggles the mind, doesn't it?

I will be very interested to hear any "harm reduction" methods the psychologist comes up with. I can't quite imagine what they might be.

ADDED: Has your therapist heard a summary yet of how your wife's actions have impacted your career?

[formflier]

Yes... .P understands my wife's actions in my career and court case.

My wife actually wrote out her involvement with the other side to "prove" I was lying.  In other words I learned of her involvement in a document she wrote to me to to "show" me my lies.

Still claims she did nothing wrong by breaking spousal privilege.

Although promises to not break it again... .riiiiiight.

FF

[KateCat]

Your wife's actions are different than anything I have experienced.

I had assumed that after you left your last career position you would be protected from further significant family disruption. But your wife seems to have some continuing agenda. Do you imagine that it is to force you back into the workforce or force you out of the family? She may imagine that she would be happy with you working again, but past experience might suggest that she would be suspicious and fearful of your work interactions with other people, and a cycle of discord would begin again. And she might fall apart if she succeeded in expelling you from the home.

If this psychologist can help your wife, more power to her! If she finds she can't, I hope she can be candid with you. And give you some practical guidance. (Though I can't quite picture what that would look like, beyond working with you to detach emotionally from a tough situation.)

This could take some time.

[formflier]

Yes... .I would expect that whatever direction it takes it will be a slow developing thing with "flashes" of weirdness.

On the one hand... .the regular paranoia stuff "I know you slept with that woman and had a child with her... "  seems to be gone as I no longer regularly invalidate her.

However, the times she acts out now seems to have more practical implications and be "more shocking".

Hate to say I almost was used to and would smile at the accusations that I was a horn dog that was after anything that moved. 

I've got a couple hours before I meet the P.  Just got back from taking S8 to doctor.  I'm going to spend some time alone with my feelings... .develop some questions.  Basically try to figure out where I am in this mess.

Make sure I understand what P want's for next steps.

FF

[Verbena]

FF,
 The mind games that my EX played--and played on a whole new level toward the end of our 34 years together--caused HUGE damage to me.  I am only just now, only days out from the divorce being final, realizing the enormity of the impact of his mental illness on me. 

I know you are a stayer at heart.  I know you are strong and patient and work very, very hard to keep your marriage and your family together.  Can you realisitically continue this way for the rest of your life--in and out of therapy, putting out fires, trying to stabilize your family due to the damage your wife's mental illness causes? 

I guess what I'm asking is, what is your bottom line? 

[KateCat]

I know you are a stayer at heart.  I know you are strong and patient and work very, very hard to keep your marriage and your family together.  Can you realisitically continue this way for the rest of your life--in and out of therapy, putting out fires, trying to stabilize your family due to the damage your wife's mental illness causes? 

Boy, my questions exactly. It sounds as though the road has already been so long, dragging from place to place to place, with conflict and disruption all along the way.

Because it can become so hard for us to see what we've already endured, my hope for your psychologist is that she is actually planning to help you rather than your wife, at the end of the day. That her fact-gathering and observation of both parties is ultimately for you and the kids. (Because wife = mission impossible, in my view.)

[formflier]

There are some motions and legal things still kicking around from the issue that my wife switched sides on.  Some serious opportunities for me to "go on offense", with potentially lucrative financial outcomes.

Things should be much clearer in a matter of months regarding this possibility.

The immediate focus is to defuse the ticking time bomb.  I still need to talk to my wife about this to confirm, but meeting tomorrow jointly with a plan that I will be dismissed at some point for 1 on 1 time.

Goal is to see if there is a chance to gain alliance and get ff wife to take steps to "stabilize family".

I am going to be "gracious" and work on acceptable compromise for childcare.  Basically wife gets what she wants.

But... .there will be clarity of action.

Long term (more than several months)

If she continues to take steps with P or other board certified (non-amateur) professional... .then potentially there is hope for long term.

If I continue to take steps and she becomes obstinate and won't do things "for the family"... .then there is little hope that this P or any would gain enough trust for meaningful progress.

So... .in a "matter of months" things will become clearer about where I go with my future... .my emotions... .my needs.

The legal thing is potentially big deal and having a paranoid stick of dynamite going off is not good for anyone.

Note:  P is divorced from her ex.  It finally became too much.  Although he made my wife look like a minor leaguer.  She didn't go into details.

I'm going to go swim.

FF
FF