When you go back?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I haven't posted on here in a while.  I have been on here several times to read certain posts.  I have tried to find something that somebody else is going through that is similar to mine.  I just need to read something that will help me and my situation.  It helps to read how others have dealt with the pain of going back.  I was separated from my xBPDgf for 3 months.  During that time, I became stronger.  I continued my therapy and I have a wonderful counselor who encouraged me so much.  I ran into my ex in a local coffee shop.  I was there one evening with some friends and she came in.  One of the guys at the table commented on how pretty the woman was that walked in.  I turned to look and I saw that it was my ex.  She smiled and waved at me.  These were my new friends that new nothing about my ex.  She came over to the table and started talking to me.  She wanted to be introduced to my new guy friends.  I introduced her as a friend of mine.  She said that we used to be more than just friends.  And that I had put her back on the market.  It was at that moment that I wished I would have dug deep within myself and wished her well.  But I didn't.  That encounter led to a month of idealization, devaluation, and discard.  The relationship was great in the beginning, but it felt different than before.  I wasn't that in to her. I liked being around her, but I was very cautious.  I didn't argue or defend myself like I did before.  I simply just didn't care.  She seemed shocked that I wouldn't get into these arguments and defend myself.  She told me that I had changed.  I told her she was right I had changed.  She said she wanted the old me back. She didn't say this but she wanted the codependent me back.  After going through the cycles 3 times in one month, I realized that I didn't love her the same as before.  I told her in a nice way that I couldn't be in a relationship with her anymore.  I told her that I had changed and I wanted different things for my life than I did before.  I told her what we had was great in the beginning.  But neither one of us knew how to get that back and the relationship has become a point of frustration for the both of us.  I was as gentle as I knew how to be with her.  I refrained from blaming her because I know that doesn't do anything but cause her shame. 

But here's the deal.  She won't leave me alone.  I have gone no contact and she keeps coming by my house, my job, the coffee shops or bars that I go to.  She has even joined the gym that I go to.  She lives about 30 minutes from me in another town.  I have changed my routines so I'm not in the same places as before.  When she does catch me, she begs and pleads.  And when that doesn't work, she tries using guilt.  And then she will resort to using sex in which I don't give in to.   All of these tactics I recognize.  I keep my boundaries firm though.  She just won't stop.  In the past, I would tell her I couldn't do it anymore and we would always end up together, because I would just eventually give in. And I would always feel bad for going back because I knew what was going to happen.  The push/pull cycles are more than I can take.   I'm kind of in a different boat that most on here.  I have read many posts where they are wishing their ex would come back.  And I have been there too.  I just want this to stop.  I'm tired of the whole BPD thing.  I can't help her and I can't fix her like I tried in the beginning.  Maybe I just needed to vent.  I wished I hadn't of ran into her in that coffee shop a month ago.  But chances are, she planned in that way.  I don't know.  Any advice would be welcomed.

[WhoMe51]

I haven't posted on here in a while.  I have been on here several times to read certain posts.  I have tried to find something that somebody else is going through that is similar to mine.  I just need to read something that will help me and my situation.  It helps to read how others have dealt with the pain of going back.  I was separated from my xBPDgf for 3 months.  During that time, I became stronger.  I continued my therapy and I have a wonderful counselor who encouraged me so much.  I ran into my ex in a local coffee shop.  I was there one evening with some friends and she came in.  One of the guys at the table commented on how pretty the woman was that walked in.  I turned to look and I saw that it was my ex.  She smiled and waved at me.  These were my new friends that new nothing about my ex.  She came over to the table and started talking to me.  She wanted to be introduced to my new guy friends.  I introduced her as a friend of mine.  She said that we used to be more than just friends.  And that I had put her back on the market.  It was at that moment that I wished I would have dug deep within myself and wished her well.  But I didn't.  That encounter led to a month of idealization, devaluation, and discard.  The relationship was great in the beginning, but it felt different than before.  I wasn't that in to her. I liked being around her, but I was very cautious.  I didn't argue or defend myself like I did before.  I simply just didn't care.  She seemed shocked that I wouldn't get into these arguments and defend myself.  She told me that I had changed.  I told her she was right I had changed.  She said she wanted the old me back. She didn't say this but she wanted the codependent me back.  After going through the cycles 3 times in one month, I realized that I didn't love her the same as before.  I told her in a nice way that I couldn't be in a relationship with her anymore.  I told her that I had changed and I wanted different things for my life than I did before.  I told her what we had was great in the beginning.  But neither one of us knew how to get that back and the relationship has become a point of frustration for the both of us.  I was as gentle as I knew how to be with her.  I refrained from blaming her because I know that doesn't do anything but cause her shame. 

But here's the deal.  She won't leave me alone.  I have gone no contact and she keeps coming by my house, my job, the coffee shops or bars that I go to.  She has even joined the gym that I go to.  She lives about 30 minutes from me in another town.  I have changed my routines so I'm not in the same places as before.  When she does catch me, she begs and pleads.  And when that doesn't work, she tries using guilt.  And then she will resort to using sex in which I don't give in to.   All of these tactics I recognize.  I keep my boundaries firm though.  She just won't stop.  In the past, I would tell her I couldn't do it anymore and we would always end up together, because I would just eventually give in. And I would always feel bad for going back because I knew what was going to happen.  The push/pull cycles are more than I can take.   I'm kind of in a different boat that most on here.  I have read many posts where they are wishing their ex would come back.  And I have been there too.  I just want this to stop.  I'm tired of the whole BPD thing.  I can't help her and I can't fix her like I tried in the beginning.  Maybe I just needed to vent.  I wished I hadn't of ran into her in that coffee shop a month ago.  But chances are, she planned in that way.  I don't know.  Any advice would be welcomed.

[pjstock42]

That's a really tough spot to be in and I'm sorry that you're going through this but also thankful that you've shared your story. I'm thankful because I'm one of those people who somewhere inside of me wants my ex to come back and she is the same kind of woman as your ex that commands the attention of men when she walks into a place so I understand how alluring that can be. By sharing the pain of what happens when you actually do get involved with them, you're helping to provide a cautionary tale to individuals such as myself and this motivates me to continue my 2 month streak of no contact, so thank you for that.

Having never been in a recycle process with my ex, I unfortunately cannot provide you with much advice. I think you did the right thing by disengaging with her and changing your routine to avoid running into her as much as possible. All I can say is to stick to full NC as much as humanly possible which it seems like you're already striving for, I wish you the best of luck.

[joeramabeme]

WhoMe51

Really interesting post, yes, you would be in a minority amongst many of us and perhaps a folk hero of sorts here on this board; "The Non that was Done".

I do not have any experience with going back and recycling.  I was married for 11 years and in retrospect, I think we may have been recycling without a formal breakup/make-up process.  But I did find something that caught my attention in your post:

I didn't argue or defend myself like I did before.  I simply just didn't care.  She seemed shocked that I wouldn't get into these arguments and defend myself.  She told me that I had changed.  I told her she was right I had changed.  She said she wanted the old me back. She didn't say this but she wanted the codependent me back. 

This is the first time I had given consideration to the idea that not only are we drawn to caretaking their dysfunction but that they are drawn to our trying to do the same.  When she told you that she wants the "old you" back, she is in essence inviting that level of r/s dynamic.  Said another way - she can't push against you if you are not pulling her towards you and vice-versa - the whole system of being in a BPD r/s breaks down when only one-side of the dynamic is functioning.  Very interesting indeed!

This next part may be a little controversial but it is what I was thinking about when reading your post.  What if you explained to her, in a non-labelling manner (such as using the term "BPD" that you saw a dynamic of push-pull that you decided to address for yourself.  Talk to some of what you have learned - without labeling it.  Perhaps she can gain some insight from your words.  I would also bet that it would put some distance in between the two of you - in a healthy way as it would be uncomfortable for her to hear - not that this would be the intention but it may serve two purposes.  Again, not sure that this is a great idea but perhaps worth thinking through.

JRB

[WhoMe51]

pjstock42,

Thank you for your reply.  My therapist told me once after one of the many recycles we had, "when you go back, you lose a little part of your soul that you may not ever get back."  She went on to say that if the pwBPD isn't actively involved in therapy or counseling, then you are going to keep getting the same result.  This one thought kept me away for 3 months.  When I saw her a month ago, I was captivated by her beauty again.  I honestly thought things were going to be different because I felt different.  While I had changed for the better, she had not.  She was still the same.  It will never be like it was in the beginning.  I hope you can maintain your no contact with her.  In my experience with mine, she always tried to come back at some point.  It wasn't until I realized that I deserved more from a relationship that the dynamic of it changed for me.  I want more.  I want to be loved back on a continuous basis.  And you deserve that too. 

[WhoMe51]

JRB,

Eleven years is a long time to be with someone with BPD. My hat is off to you for being in it for that long.  You must have a lot of patience and understanding.   I was with mine on and off for 6 years.  I learned a lot from this relationship.  I learned about codependency.  I learned that I ignore red flags.  I learned that I had created the parent/child relationship in all of my intimate relationships.  I am a firm believer that my mom has BPD.  And I stayed so long in this one because it was familiar to me subconsciously.  And I kept trying to get it right.  It was that thought that kept me in it for so long.  I had to get this one right.  I didn't want to fail.  But I learned that I can only fix me and I'm not responsible for anyone else's feelings but my own. 

I did talk to her about the push/pull cycles.  She is aware that she does it.  She told me that she can't stop it.  I talked to her about going to counseling and she did for a while before our 3 month break.  She was constantly cancelling appointments or she just wouldn't show up.  When I told her that I felt it was best if we stopped seeing each other, she said she would go get counseling.  I told her she needed to do that regardless of if we were together or not.  She needed that for herself.   

  I was watching a movie the other night, and the lead character said, "I don't believe in mistakes.  Because it's our mistakes that lead us to our destiny."  While sometimes these relationships feel like a big mistake, If we change our point of view and see our part in it. This new view can lead us to a brand new path or destiny.  The way we are supposed to be.  Just my opinion

[JQ]

Hello Whome,

I really want to give you a standing ovation    You are truly not in a good place in your life ... .but you are truly in a GREAT place in your life. Well freaking done!  

You have completed a lot of work on yourself at a great cost ... .not just financially but emotionally, mentally, physically. You have the mental fortitude to refuse her advances in all manners including sexual. I will tell you that not many on this board could resist their exBPD, so good on you.  You have found that sweet spot after a BPD r/s much like me in that if you ever saw your exBPDgf, you could at least be "cordial" to them, but not engage. This takes an incredible amount of strength on your part.

You were, "captivated" by her beauty again, but you set AND maintained your boundary to protect yourself. You are different, you looked back on your life, you learned about BPD & how serious a mental / behavioral illness it is. You learned that there is little hope for those who suffer from it and might after years of continued therapy expect some level of "Management" of the symptoms but they will always be sick.

You learned to love yourself and find happiness within yourself. You learned that your personal happiness didn't come from the happiness of others or the success of others that you have helped. You learned that you wanted & deserved better AND more importantly you WANT it!  You have told the group that she is still the same & through your education you've learned that someone who suffers from this Cluster B mental illness will likely never change, at least as far as modern pharma & medical means are concerned at the moment.

You do lose a part of yourself when you go back, the challenge for everyone in the group is when do you say enough is enough? When do you say this is MY LIFE & i'm going to live it for ME?  The answer, when you can look at yourself in the mirror and believe it when you tell yourself this. You have done this and you believe it AND you are living it everyday!  

You seem to be doing all that you can within your own abilities to avoid her & any situations that might involve her. From your readings, your therapist and the group you have learned that they will most likely never stop so you will have to maintain your boundaries. It's a lot of work doing what your doing but the pay off is so worth it as you've come to learn.

If i may suggest a couple of things ... .if your gym membership has a different location then maybe try that, if not it'll be hard to avoid if you don't change your hours of working out. You have a new group of friends so maybe see if they have suggestions for new coffee shops, places to eat, etc. in an attempt to avoid contact with her. I had to do the same thing when I went NC, I actually found a couple of places that I liked better to have coffee & a pastry not to mention some good restaurants.  As for work, the house, it's hard to to manage that other then do the best you can.

She's feeling a sense of abandonment from you and we've learned that this will never go away from them. It's in the genetic code makeup and that's impossible to change. I would tell you that it took me joining the military & leaving my hometown for good ... .but she wiggle her way into my families life in order to maintain tabs on me until I retired. Then there was a huge effort to get me to move back home ... .NO CHANCE!   I live 1/2 way across the country and happy to be where I am at. I have new friends, new places to eat, I love where I live and the good thing is, it's to far for her to "drive by & knock on my door to say hi".  That might be an impossible thing for you ... .so ... . 

I would say that you are doing VERY VERY VERY well on your path of enlightenment !  It's refreshing to hear someone who has been successful of letting go of the BPD monster in your life and learning to live YOUR life for YOURSELF! You are certainly an example for others to let them know it doesn't alway have to be that way ... .there is another way. There is life after your exBPD and your proof of it.

J

[WhoMe51]

JQ,

Thank you for that!  I got excited when I was reading that.  It was another way of looking at where I'm at.  I appreciate that encouragement.  It sounds like you walked in my shoes as far as the relationship goes.  The gym where I go is a 24 hr gym.  I have been getting up at 5 and going at that time.  So I took care of that.  I know that I will just have to maintain my boundaries and continue nc as best as I can. When I first came to this site, I was broken and didn't know what to do.  I had no understanding of boundaries or anything.  This site was and is a blessing.   I really never thought I would make it to this point, but I have.  And realizing who I am and what I want for my life was the turning point for me.  Again Thank you!

[JQ]

JRB,

Eleven years is a long time to be with someone with BPD. My hat is off to you for being in it for that long.  You must have a lot of patience and understanding.   I was with mine on and off for 6 years.  I learned a lot from this relationship.  I learned about codependency.  I learned that I ignore red flags.  I learned that I had created the parent/child relationship in all of my intimate relationships.  I am a firm believer that my mom has BPD.  And I stayed so long in this one because it was familiar to me subconsciously.  And I kept trying to get it right.  It was that thought that kept me in it for so long.  I had to get this one right.  I didn't want to fail.  But I learned that I can only fix me and I'm not responsible for anyone else's feelings but my own.  

If we change our point of view and see our part in it. This new view can lead us to a brand new path or destiny.  The way we are supposed to be.  

Whome,

Your words ring true! I was with my 1st exBPDgf off & on for 3 yrs. I was with my most recent exBPDgf for almost 3 yrs, but it wasn't until this most recent one that I learned she was BPD when she told me. I dove into the world learning all I could, but then through the help of a couple of my own therapist, my reading, a deep dive on myself in self evaluation did I learn LIKE YOU about codependency, trying to recreate the parent/child r/s & LIKE YOU staying as long as I did in order to TRY & make it work at all cost including my own soul. I learned like you I couldn't do that anymore ... .I learned like you I had to save myself.  I learned that my step mother/sister & 1/2 brother all exhibit 7-9 of the classic symptoms but getting them to go seek out therapy is impossible.  I have learned to let them go in order to maintain my own mental health & boundaries because of the constant battle with them. They have their own demons of abandonment, engulfment, etc to fight. I know there is nothing further I could ever do for them. Like the song says, "I've got to live my own life".

Like you there are moments ... .but everyday that passes is a good day I get stronger and I like you want nothing to do with BPD & her flying monkey's. I can say that I have no left over feelings of wanting to get back with her like you with your BPD.

It's a good place to be isn't it? And this place ... .well this place is a good place to come vent, and share your thoughts & experiences with others so that you can give them an example that it is possible to get to the other side. It takes a lot of work, self evaluation but it's possible!  

J

[heartandwhole]

Hi WhoMe51,

I think your post is inspiring, thank you for sharing your progress. I understand that it's difficult to have pwBPD trying to contact you all the time. That would really bother me, too. I don't know what else you can do besides reinforcing your boundaries whenever she tries to bust them. And perhaps act very boring and dull when you see her. It almost sounds like she sees you as a challenge now, because you were so different during the recycle.

And speaking of that: what I find so hopeful in your post is that you have given us all an example of how after one of the people (or both) in the relationship changes, the dynamic is broken and the attraction is not there anymore. That sounds to me like you have really grasped and worked through your own patterns to the point that you know in your bones that this kind of relationship has nothing to offer you anymore. I think that is Success with a capital S. AND, I do realize that there is a sadness in there as well. It always hurts to lose someone we love(d), or to see them suffering and/or repeating unhealthy patterns.

heartandwhole

[lovenature]

It only gets worse with every recycle; you know it is a relationship you don't want to be in, but so hard to resist when she reaches out. Takes time for the heart to catch up with the head.

My ex. lives across the street from me, she would continually call, come over, follow me to places, yell stuff at me for the neighbors to hear after I had told her numerous times to let me go, leave me alone. I allowed intimate contact even after learning about BPD (felt REALLY awful afterwards!); the compassion I feel for her after learning about her illness made it easier for my heart and feelings to take over.

I am now over 8 months NC, during the first month she was pretty persistent in trying to contact me, over time it got less, but more inconsistent.
Total NC is best from what I have learned; she still tries at times but I have not responded in any way (I let her leave messages on my voice mail-less banging on my door). They will make up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment, but if you don't give them ANY attention, they will eventually get tired of trying. There are stories on here though of contact after many years; they need an attachment to exist and can reach out at any time if they think you are the best option at that moment.

[SheAskedForaBreak]

I'm impressed, if I were in this position I would have completely caved in. 

[SheAskedForaBreak]

Go completely NC.  Ignore her when she attempts to contact you and if you see her in person, politely excuse yourself from the situation.  Once she realizes you won't be there to validate her she will give up.  It may take some time, but stay strong and continue NC.  Be prepared for feeling a loss once she stops, that is when you'll be most vulnerable. 

[Rayban]

I allowed myself to be recycled too many times.  Looking back now, I feel embarrassed on how easy it was for her, to basically just bat her eyelashes, play with her hair, and I agreed to yet another roller coaster ride.

This was even after I knew I was dealing with a mentally disordered person. I fooled myself into believing that I would just emotionally block her out, and just enjoy the sex. Needless to say I was wrong.  I believe my ex lost even more respect for me each time I agreed.  It just would be worse everytime.

I refused a recycle attempt just last week.  Things were getting clearer in my head. I started to stick to reality and forget the fantasy world she created. I think she knew I was moving ahead.  I wasn't buying what she was saying.  It just sounded so fake and rehearsed.  She got desperate and began using lines that worked in the past.  I felt contempt for her, and a little sorry for her knowing how much rejection must hurt her. That's not my problem anymore   I'm aware that I might have become a challenge for her, and I might have to deal with some other missels fired my way. I'll fight to keep her away from me.