Wants my friendship

[Oncebitten]

My ex and I have been trying to work through a very bad time in our r/s for weeks now.   But she cant get past the damage I did.  She tells me now that all she can accept it my friendship and that is all she is willing to give me.

Thats not what I want.  She tells me that she is still in love with me but cant be in a r/s with me bc she doesn't trust me any more.

Do I be her friend and hope that we can rekindle what we had? 

Is she doing this because she wants that back and isnt ready?

Is she essentially using me to get over me?  Keeping me around for love and support until she finds someone else?

Wants me around to keep tabs on me?

So confused... .and lost.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

I know this is hard, but the choice isn't about what she wants. You're considering why she says this, but really we can't read minds. All you have to go on is what she said to you.

I think it is tempting for us to try to guess what someone else is wanting or feeling, especially if someone isn't consistent.

However, this is the situation. You had an incident with someone else. It's over, but your ex has said she can not get over this.

You want more, but she says all she can give you is friendship. You are thinking about what she wants.

Is this enough for you? Do you really want to be in the friend zone- somewhat attached to her, but not happy with the situation. Basically, if you agree with her - what you are saying is sure, I'll take whatever you give me, and just be here for you. If you do this, she faces no consequence for her choices- that would be the risk of losing you, and you will move on. But in the friend zone- ( while you are still longing for her) she hasn't risked much.

Perhaps there is a time where you could be a friend, but do you need to heal from the relationship break up- not long for her before you can do that?

Would it be better for you to make a clean break and give yourself some time to recover?

Do you want to continue a relationship of some sorts where you are not forgiven for something like this?

I think it may help to decide what you want to do, regardless of what she wants.

[ArleighBurke]

It is a difficult situation - for you AND her.

She has been hurt. And BPDs feel emotion 1000x stronger than nons. So she is very fearful of being hurt again - and is avoiding that possibility.

A relationship development forum I really like dicusses the "friend zone". They basically say that most men presume you can go from the friend-zone to the more-than-friends zone - but it is super difficult. They say if you just want to be friends - then sure. But if you want more, then do NOT enter the friend zone. Say to her "I cannot just be your friend - I want more that that". Force her to choose a relationship, or nothing.

I'm not sure how that would work for an ex, especially a BPD-ex. I'm trying to imagine my wife if I said that - would she ever come back? Probably not. But as Notwendy says - it you live with her as friends then you've set the standard of what you'll accept - and she controls it. What incentive is there for her to change that?

[FallBack!Monster]

Friend zone... .BPD or not, not a good position to be in. It would hurt you bc if you guys are just friends that means you have no rights to anything.

How do you think you'll feel if you knew she was dating someone else? Bc when you say yes to just friends, that might just happen and you can't say sh@t.  You'd be the only one hurt in that trio.

To this day, I have some romantic feelings for my ex. I won't get into why or which feelings but I know right now I am not emotionally prepared for my eyes to see her with someone else.  I can know she is but don't care to see it. Are you prepared for any of that? 

[Meili]

I have a different take on this than the others do. I have learned that being your ex's friend can work to your benefit far more than just walking away completely. This isn't just from personal experience either.

While I truly believe that giving trust is a choice, how can she feel comfortable giving you trust if she cannot see that you are trustworthy?

How can you rekindle the loving feelings if you are not around?

Invalidating her feelings by giving her an ultimatum doesn't sound like it will get you where you ultimately want to go either.

So, you know that you run the risk of being trapped in the friend-zone, but you also know that you run the risk of losing her forever if you aren't her friend for now. Which risk is more acceptable to you?

[HopefulDad]

My ex and I have been trying to work through a very bad time in our r/s for weeks now.   But she cant get past the damage I did.  She tells me now that all she can accept it my friendship and that is all she is willing to give me.

What damage did you do, real or alleged?

I'm asking because it's all too common on this website that our default POV is "the pwBPD has a disordered view of what happened" when sometimes it was us nons who effed up.

[Oncebitten]

Hopefuldad

While we were broken up I spent time with another woman.  When my gf came back into my life I decided that I wanted to try it again with her.  She feels that I cheated on her.  But what upsets her the most is that I didnt tell her right away.  I kept ir from her and broke the trust.  I know I effed up. 

[Oncebitten]

All

I dont disagree with any of you.  The friend zone is a bad place to be if you want more.  For the simple fact that its painful. To talk to someone you are very much in love with and yet only recieve a friendship is heart breaking... .especially when you want so much more.
Meili I know what you are saying... .hard to rebuild trust and restart a fire if you arent there.

Dont know what I can handle at this point ... .both options break my heart to be honest.

[HopefulDad]

While we were broken up I spent time with another woman.  When my gf came back into my life I decided that I wanted to try it again with her.  She feels that I cheated on her.  But what upsets her the most is that I didnt tell her right away.  I kept ir from her and broke the trust.  I know I effed up. 

This one's a tough one because although you technically didn't cheat and you technically don't owe her any explanation of what you did while broken up, it's not hard to see how she could feel hurt by your lack of being forthcoming.  I have a friend who told me over beers that when he was dating his wife, they had broken up briefly and during that time he had a fling.  He said this is something he never told his wife and never will.  His wife does not suffer a PD, but I can imagine the pain she would feel finding out he hid this from her.

Personally, I would decouple your ex's PD from this and take her pain at face value.  You admit yourself that you may have effed up, so don't minimize her pain as being a product of BPD.  And then I would wish her luck and try not to bother with maintaining a friendship, instead focusing on learning from my mistake and moving forward.  Sometimes ending things badly is a good way to make sure they end.  Trying to maintain a friendship, especially with the ulterior motive of winning her back can just prolong your pain.

[Oncebitten]

Hopefuldad

I have separated the hurt from the condition.  I and I know that she is hurt regardless.  My problem is that I don't want them to end.  And we have days where everything is great, and looks like we are on the road to recovery and then everything goes bad again.  Thats why I struggle with being friends.  I feel likw given time the trust can be repaired and we can move forward.  But if I give up the friendship then what chance do I have?

[Meili]

What is it that triggers her and then she pushes you away when things are going well?

As you know, I too betrayed my x and have to rebuild trust. It's been basically a three steps forward, two steps back process; but we are slowly growing closer again. It's a very slow and painful process for both of us. She tells me that it would be far easier on her to just walk away and give up any idea of reconciliation, but she's trying. Part of that trying is keeping me at arms' length to keep herself from being hurt until she believes that I won't hurt her.

I asked her one day if I've been placed in the friend-zone. She told me that I was more than a friend, but we are less than a couple. I did start out just as a friend though. I had to show her consistency in words and actions to start to get close to her.

I read somewhere, today, that it can sometimes take 1.5 years or more to regain trust, and that's in the best of circumstances. But, for the woman that I planned on spending the rest of my life with, 1.5 years doesn't seem that bad.

Each relationship is unique though. Each couple brings their own set of challenges to face and overcome.

[HopefulDad]

... .I know that she is hurt regardless.

This is good that you realize this.  So when she says she wants to end things, you can take her at face value.

My problem is that I don't want them to end.

The problem here is that she does want them to end and you have no control over that.  It sucks, but that's how it goes in these situations.

... .I feel likw given time the trust can be repaired and we can move forward.  But if I give up the friendship then what chance do I have?

You may be right, but you are more likely to be grasping at straws.  If you want to remain friends to leave the door open a crack to repairing your romantic relationship, get okay with the idea that it's her job to open the door all the way and she may choose not to.  Do you think you can be her friend while she dates other guys?  Because that's what being her friend will likely entail.  If not, you're just playing games and that's not fair to her and undignified for you.

[Splitblack4good]

My ex asked me to be freinds with her even asked me to promise that if we split up again I'd always be her freind but what I didn't realise at the time is she asked me to promise her that when she had already lined up my replacement ! The reason she done that is obvious she wanted to keep me as back up . When I found out and confronted her about it and even proved that she was with my replacement the time she asked me I told her I don't want to be freinds with her and still to this day she thinks I'm the one who has wronged her even though she done that !
Sorry if I kind of high jacked your post and don't know if that's helped your situation atall .

[FallBack!Monster]

Not sure if this is what hijacking means but not what I'm trying to do here.

When my ex split and split me blacker than black. I had no idea this is was the direction we were going. When I finally woke up to it, I told her we were better of as friends. I still had romantic feelings for her but too many differences and unnecessary disagreements.

She wouldn't hear of it. Then she agreed. After that we spent a few more weeks doing what couples do. Use your own imagination. Then one day she stopped all together. Ceased all communication, etc for weeks. Then one day showed up at my door smelling like she had a few shots of Patrons, and "told" me she only wanted to be friends. Also, she wanted stop doing what couples do. I was hurt but she was drunk as heck so I waited a few days to bring it up again. It turns out she was serious that time. My reaction to that was not pleasant to her at all. Trust me I know how I can get when I'm upset.

Weeks later, I realized that that's what I asked so I became less upset at her and respected her wishes. So I never again talked about us as a us. Instead, I talked about how we should have been friends from jump and all that dumb shT. However, it somewhat bother me that things had changed between us. It was nerve-wracking to see her or hear her voice. Bc she was now drunk all the time and I don't even drink.

I started to think, why did I want to break it off in the first place. and why did she say that she only wanted to be friends, then I did some more dumb thinking just bc, I think too much. Lol
After that, do I want her back? Why? What's changed? Can I trust her to not drink herself to death? Can I trust her to not break my heart again? What am I up to with wanting her back after I told her we're better off not romantically involved? Wld I be okay seeing her with other partners? No! Can we be acquainted? Yes. Can we be friends? I want to say yes, but too painful right now. Cause how healthy would that be for me when I know for sure I'm not there yet?

Yup! She has moved far on in life and I still refuse to date until I know I can honestly and fully offer someone what I had promised her. In my opinion, if you still harbor those feelings for her, you SHOULD NOT accept charity friendship. Either your something together or you're nothing apart.

I hope this answers some questions.

[Oncebitten]

Splitblack

You didn't hijack anything...
Thats the point of these posts to share experiences, in the hope that we all come out better on the other side. Idk the same thing from time to time.  Does she really want me as a friend or am I just supply until she finds someone new.

[Oncebitten]

Fallback

Not sure if its chairty or what... .but the thought of just being friends right now breaks me into pieces.  I always tell her I can do that for her... .I mean I broke her heart so I feel I owe her a friendship if she really wants it.

But how healthy is it for either of us really, if all I do is hold on to that hope of more?  Thats not really a friend is it?  In my mind no man will ever be right for her if its not me.  How supportive is that?  I dont harbor feelings for her... .my feelings for her consume me.

[FallBack!Monster]

Splitblack

You didn't hijack anything...
Thats the point of these posts to share experiences, in the hope that we all come out better on the other side. Idk the same thing from time to time.  Does she really want me as a friend or am I just supply until she finds someone new.

Do you even care?

[FallBack!Monster]

Not sure if its chairty or what... .but the thought of just being friends right now breaks me into pieces. 

Then don't do it.

i always tell her I can do that for her... .I mean I broke her heart so I feel I owe her a friendship if she really wants it.

being her friend out of pity is not good. I've never heard of anybody owing friendship. In friendship there has to be love. It's not a way to repay I debt you "assume* you owe. That's not real friendship. That is a forced situation. Love of any type should not be forced. Move on with your life if that's the reason why you're doing it. It won't last a day, in my opinion. It's fake. Leave it!
 

how healthy is it for either of us really, if all I do is hold on to that hope of more? 

more of what?
 

Thats not really a friend is it?  In my mind no man will ever be right for her if its not me.

welcome to the club, the party, and the after-hours underground spot. We all feel that way when we care for somebody. However, my ex thought otherwise and left to go find out if the grass is greener on the other side.
 

  How supportive is that?  I dont harbor feelings for her... .my feelings for her consume me.

which feelings? Passion? Resentment? Love? Wanting her in your life? Wanting her for backup supply? Huh
A couple months ago I felt, WOW I just want her in my life. but truthfully I don't think I should be caring that much for somebody that didn't think twice and walked away from me and never looked back.
Does any of what I've said make any sense to you at all? Idk if Im helping or making matters worse.

[Oncebitten]

Fallback

Here it is real simple... .I love her and want to be in a relationship with her.  If I cant have that as selfish as it may sound, I don't think I can maintain a friendship. 

If i cant be a real friend to her why bother?  Thats my question, I will always or at least for a long time want more.

[FallBack!Monster]

Oncebitten, correct me if Im wrong.  You have fond memories of when you were partners. You claim to have hurt her deeply. She perceives infidelity. You have been with someone else but it was during a break. You feel she's not past the painful memories. You love her. She loves you. You want more than friendship but don't feel you can give her what she truly deserves. But you want to try. But more than that you want to do it right this time around?

Sounds to me like you feel the same passion for each other but are both afraid to be hurt again.

Forget about JUST friends. Find a common ground. Where it is safe for both. It's not impossible. I can't tell you she'll trust you. Especially right away. She might never let her guard down for you but then again your guards are up to. Why? Because you are here asking about it. Another thing that I found. If my ex and I had taking the possessiveness out of the equation, we probably wouldn't have failed as fast as we did.

With my ex emotions are all over the place, one day she'll love me the next day she wld be so emotionally distant. I had grown accustomed to it but it kept me worried. Not a good feeling. If we had NOT titled or r/s who knows how it could've been.

Anyway, how about trying something different? Not saying to do what I mentioned. However, Im suggesting reaching a common ground. In the middle. If there's really any love left between the two of you, you will find a way. That doesn't feel forced to either of you. What do you think?

[patientandclear]

I think the problem is that OB's ex is the one who is limiting it to friendship status. It's not in his control to deem it "in the middle."

[FallBack!Monster]

patientandclear

I think the problem is that OB's ex is the one who is limiting it to friendship status. It's not in his control to deem it "in the middle."

Ob, aren't you the one who messed up? Didn't you hurt her? You want her to give you a second chance to do it again? Or do you just want things your way and you cannot see pass what you want?

All I hear is what "l" want and " I don't" want. I'm not trying to be mean. I just think that's something you should consider. Do you just want to "win" her back? Or do you genuinely believe you possess what it takes to make her happy with you again? How was it before the break?

There are many factors that have to be considered before proceeding. I love happy endings.  I wish you success.

[Oncebitten]

Fallback

I did hurt her but I know that I won't do it again.  I know that I can make her happy, I still do.   Not sure what common ground there is to be had. I have tried everything to prove to her that it's her I want to be with.  She says she will give me a chance again one minute then says friends is all I can have the next.

[Oncebitten]

Patientandclear

Yes she is the one that keeps saying just friends.

[Oncebitten]

Snap

Yes I am the one who messed up.but I don't just want to win her back.  I love her and I know that I can make her happy again.  The r/s wasn't perfect before  but it was great and I believe that it can truly be better if we can get past the point where we are at now. There is too much love on both sides to give it up.  We are a truly amazing couple when together.  And we can be again.

[HopefulDad]

"Getting past this"... .this would be tough for any relationship.  Trust needs to be rebuilt and that's never an easy thing.  There needs to be forgiveness.   Genuine forgiveness and no held grudge or resentment.

Do you think you are truly going to be forgiven by someone with BPD?  Or do you think you'll be clubbed over the head with this incident for the rest of your life?

[FallBack!Monster]

 
I think middle ground is a good idea. Romantic relationships are overrated. Who is the one with BPD, you or her?
Proceed with caution if it's she. The friendship pull could be a way for her to entertain herself. It's possible it's a long string with a few in your position tugging at the same time. Perhaps she's having fun. Buy a pair of matching cheap rings. Place one on her finger then make her a promise that a year from now you're going to replace it with the real thing. That's not a real engagement but you got her attention then you can ease your way in.

Proceed with caution bc my ex did a lot of sneaky things to me. Setup dates when she knew she was going to be out of the country. Text me open invitations with no time date details to see if I'd bite. Say she wants to see me with no details. If you're not a pwBPD you might not get it at first or ever get to understand why even bother but thats how you wld be if you were numb inside. The fake invites went on for months until I was was far and safe enough to disengage.

They do that bc they like to play and know a normal brain would take it at face value until they dont. Judge her validity by her actions not her wordst.

OB- 
 there are plenty of fish in the sea.  Why do you feel the need to go backwards? Are you lonely?

[patientandclear]

Snap--you do a nice job of explaining the problem with the middle ground (that it can yield many benefits to someone wBPD while being confusing as all get out to the other person). Not sure why you start out recommending it. It is painful for someone in OB's position for the reasons OB has identified--he is not OK with being one of several and being kept at arm's length.

[FallBack!Monster]

I completely agree with SO71. I went through the EXACT same things after my "devaluation." In human terms, after she determined she saw no further reason to treat me with respect. 

In my normal state of mind, I knew she was playing games. She always did live in a fantastic (to her and her friends) fantasy world. Only now (after the fact) she's displaying the turbo version of her gaming. However I would fool myself that there could be "some type" friendship between the two of but no. Once your dumped you're no link the game. Not even to be played. My ex was literally having her friends who are like her and family contacting me, pretending to be her. A whole room full of idiots.  My number was linked to a group of her acquaintances. That's why I decided to no longer feel bad for her. Keep in mind this all the while begging for us to at least remain friends.
ONCEB, here's a good way to know. This worked for me. My ex brain is a messy mixture of a few PDs. None of which live in the now. But all take people lives for granted. Instead of moving on with the other replacements, she'd from time to time hit me up. Listen! I said from time to time. But one thing I'll say, never picked up the phone and called once she left never.
Write down all the pros and cons from past and present interactions with her. Once you add it all up you'll see the offer she's making its just a joke. Who messed up or who broke it off is the least of your problems.

I care about my exs well being, but sooner than later I had to come to terms with the facts. pwBPD only use you after they have discarded you. I  want you to be my friend means, I want to know you on board so that I can stop this exhausting  mind F game with you. That way I can narrow it down to just a few people left to convince. Once I got all my eggs in a row (all exs back on board) I will have free time to seekout  a new attachment. Bc I'm getting tired of faking for the one I'm currently with. So yes, proceed with caution.

[FallBack!Monster]

Wow... .