can't you accept me as I am?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I am detaching but we still have contact (and will do for next few months).

we have a very repetitive scenario, probably a kind of level 1 difficulty, and which despite all(?) my work still gets to me... .it goes like this.

She will say something hurtful (gratuitous put down for example) - it will often get me.

I will say "why do you have to be so critical (possibly calmly, possibly, depending on nature of the remark, less calmly)

To which her reply will be "it wasn't harmful, you are just too sensitive.

"Yes Ok but can't you accept/respect the way I am" I'll say

To which she'll say 'well I'm just being me, I'll sometimes say things straight - can't you accept me as I am?

So round and round we go; and when I look at it, I cannot accept the way she is (the put downs), but I am asking that she respects the way I am!

Can anyone help explaining/breaking this cycle because I would like to put it to bed.

Thanks for any pointers

[earlgrey]

I am detaching but we still have contact (and will do for next few months).

we have a very repetitive scenario, probably a kind of level 1 difficulty, and which despite all(?) my work still gets to me... .it goes like this.

She will say something hurtful (gratuitous put down for example) - it will often get me.

I will say "why do you have to be so critical (possibly calmly, possibly, depending on nature of the remark, less calmly)

To which her reply will be "it wasn't harmful, you are just too sensitive.

"Yes Ok but can't you accept/respect the way I am" I'll say

To which she'll say 'well I'm just being me, I'll sometimes say things straight - can't you accept me as I am?

So round and round we go; and when I look at it, I cannot accept the way she is (the put downs), but I am asking that she respects the way I am!

Can anyone help explaining/breaking this cycle because I would like to put it to bed.

Thanks for any pointers

[Visitor]

You are giving the other person too much power. Look at the difference between these two ways of dealing with it:

She make a comment that hurts... .

Scenario 1
Giving the other person the power:
You: It hurts me when you say that can you please not say that. 
Her: you are being too sensitive
You: can you please accept me for who I am.

Scenario 2
Keeping the power to yourself:
You: excuse me but I don't like what you just said and find it rude and unacceptable.
Her: you are being too sensitive.
You: I don't give a damn what I'm being I don't like it and that is that. Don't speak to me like that again!

In the first scenario you are asking her to change in order for you to feel respected. This is giving the other person the power. In the second scenario you are demanding respect and communicating that it's unacceptable thus keeping the power to yourself. The line "you are being too sensitive" is classic manipulation and will blur your boundary if you aren't careful. If you find it hurtful then you find it hurtful, don't question yourself and stand strong. Most of all you must be willing to walk away. If she treats you like crap and you come back for more then all the advice in the world isn't going to help.

[bus boy]

In my experience, we non's  are only beating a dead horse, trying to get through to a npd or BPD. My xw enjoys the look of anguish and pain on my face, she enjoys knowing she caused pain. I say nothing to xw. My sister and her family have been getting the finger from xw for years. My brother in law has told my xw several times to stop and not in tippy toe terms. Xw just gets more out energy out of it and continues to give the finger to this day. They hate being laughed at, laugh at her and thank her. My xw came unglued when I was getting my son for access, I thanked her and it set her in more of a rage, I got my son and left her to stew, if she rages on the phone, I thank her and hang up, she will keep calling like a mad person but I don't answer. That drives her crazy.

[JerryRG]

I get such a kick out of your responces and your attitude bus boy, you say it like you see it.

PwBPD are a pain in the a## for sure, we either learn to defuse them by taking away their ability, power to affect us.

I think that's what I'm hearing from you?

They won't change so we must, or continue to allow them to bother us.

I was in the same situation earlgrey, my exgf was so mean and controlling and still is. I couldn't take the constant complaining and negitive attitude and blame so we fought. Her pain directed toward me, it had nothing to do with me, my fault was being close enough to take the hits.

Simple: She hurts, she projects her pain on me

I finally got tired of her beating me up and putting me down, no way to live.

[earlgrey]

@visitor... .many thanks for clear and concise way to handle it, but just another question if I may.

How come you know this stuff and I don't?

Where does this knowledge come from?

Is it just obvious/intuitive (to those who get it) and mystical to people like me?

[C.Stein]

Can anyone help explaining/breaking this cycle because I would like to put it to bed.

EG ... .this is simply a matter of respect.  Gently but firmly and respectfully inform her that if she cannot treat you with respect then you will remove yourself from the conversation until such a time when she can treat you with respect.

[Sadly]

It's learnt here EG, reading posts and lessons and books recommend by fellow sufferers/victims. Read, read and read. Post, cry and laugh. Talk. Here is where you will find respect and totally unconditional love and understanding .   x

[Butterflies free]

Hi Earlgrey!

This site truly is the best resource for support. We are all coping/navigating/understanding the repercussions of BPD and its effect to our emotional, mental and physical well being in the aftermath of a relationship.

There are great resources/articles/guides on this site.
I found, the best way to detach is NC. I have been NC w my exBPDbf for 15 months now and although the first 9 months were filled with heartbreak and despair, I am happy to say, I am back to my old self without any lingering fallout from his abuse.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

Maybe this article might help you.

Wishing you peace of heart and happiness

[earlgrey]

... .if she cannot treat you with respect then you will remove yourself from the conversation... .

been removing my self from conversations for quite some time, and that really made no difference, then tried separate bedrooms, nope... .that's how I got to divorce!

Sadly... .I'll go along with that, they're learned skills, I was worried I was missing something more fundamental.

[C.Stein]

been removing my self from conversations for quite some time, and that really made no difference

OK.  So how did you do it?  Was it done in a constructive way or destructive way?

[elfyguy]

Hey JerryRG,

I remember when my ex would sometimes talk to me in a demeaning and aggressive way, even when I was helping her or doing something for her.
I remember, earlier on, discussing the issue with her was pointless. However, after a while I tried something else.
I pointed at her and said in a stern, non-aggressive way, (tilting my head slightly down and looking up at her) ":)on't talk to me like that!" I remember she would stop, and sometimes sit down and act like a kid. She might giggle and play with something like her hands or on the computer; it was like she turned 5 yeas old. It was so weird and cute at the same time. Obviously, I reminded her of a parental figure, like her father, and she became docile. And so, that's how it went... .

I think you should be more stern with her, but that's just my opinion.

[earlgrey]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, they have really helped.

Then along comes a 2 star general... .

OK.  So how did you do it?  Was it done in a constructive way or destructive way?

Oh! CS what a question. I did it all in the most constructive way I was able (he said very defensively)... .but the simple fact of asking the question like that makes me think WOW maybe I should have done this or I shouln't have done that, and now I'm on my way to divorce on the back of some ill conceived actions. H E L P.

But that's OK, I assume responsiblity my choices. I have read and learned what I could and applied what I could... .but maybe like Matthews in the Far Side cartoon I didn't actually get it (google far side dolphins - utterly brilliant). Anyhow I'd reached my limits and I needed out. It may not be a 10 on healthy, but it certainly isn't a 10 on unhealthy either which I can live with.

[VitaminC]

She will say something hurtful (gratuitous put down for example) - it will often get me.

I will say "why do you have to be so critical (possibly calmly, possibly, depending on nature of the remark, less calmly)

To which her reply will be "it wasn't harmful, you are just too sensitive.

"Yes Ok but can't you accept/respect the way I am" I'll say

To which she'll say 'well I'm just being me, I'll sometimes say things straight - can't you accept me as I am?

Sorry, bit late to the party, but I wanted to say that this example above reminded me of 16,527 similar absolutely maddening conversations I took part in.  Level 1 difficulty, ha!

I inevitably ended up feeling like I was explaining what it is to be human to a robot or an alien. As a logical construction you can't really argue with it - "yes, why does my being accepted take precedence over your being accepted, indeed, good question". 

Put that way, it leads to ever further definition seeking: what do you mean by "accept" exactly, if the word "respect" gets mentioned - then surely you need to define that and give concrete examples and flesh them out.

Yes, of course, SET and not JADEing are the way to go. I support that fully, and use it all the time in my life now.  I never got that far in my own r/s as I ended it before those kinds of lessons began to make any kind of impact on me.

If I occasionally have some thoughts of "oh, maybe if I'd known x,y, or z, maybe I could have handled it better", then your example, earlgrey, has reminded me that, no, I couldn't have.

In the end, another adult with whom I have a very special and intimate relationship being deliberately hurtful, is just not something I can deal with - no matter how much I learn about the disorder or communication tools.  No matter how much I imagine him wearing a bib and shaking a rattle at me and mentally dress a grown man in diapers to help me remember he's emotionally a child, at times at least.

I guess I'm thinking we all have our limits.  They may well be much further off in the distance than we think, once we begin to properly understand ourselves and also work on improving our communication. But it's not realistic (or fair to ourselves) to think we can keep taking things on the chin with equanimity indefinitely.

I see that some people can and they do not think of it in those kinds of terms. The Improving Board often has really wonderful and very sage and practical advice. I learn a lot from the members who post there.

But I am careful with my own limits. I did and do what I can. I have a certain character. In other words, I am who I am, and while I'm still trying to figure many things out, one thing I do not need to figure out anymore is how to deal with someone who sets out to hurt me and then pretends not to know what they've done. Whatever the reasons and mechanisms behind that - I am capable of seeing them pretty clearly, I think - I can understand it, BUT I would exhaust myself with the amount of energy I'd have to put into dealing with it. I need that energy for other things and prefer to put it there instead.

[earlgrey]

I guess I'm thinking we all have our limits. 

Hi Vitamin C, thanks for your thoughts, and yes I can relate very much to your approach.

Our limits are a very personal part of who we are, and in these 'special' r/s we find out about them. Some people will find themselves on the improving board, others on the one for detaching. Some people won't have even made it here at all, either because halfway through the first date they bailed, or maybe the chaotic r/s is just how it is... .for better or for worse!

I know I have hit my limits. I maybe haven't perfected all the techniques for dealing with a difficult SO, and I'm sure I've still some unresolved issues deep down, but I'm OK with that. I'm working on things, but daily chaos, no thanks.

[C.Stein]

OK.  So how did you do it?  Was it done in a constructive way or destructive way?

Oh! CS what a question. I did it all in the most constructive way I was able (he said very defensively)... .but the simple fact of asking the question like that makes me think WOW maybe I should have done this or I shouln't have done that, and now I'm on my way to divorce on the back of some ill conceived actions. H E L P.

The question wasn't intended for you to doubt your decision but rather to help you look at the dynamic of the situation now and perhaps explore different ways you might mitigate your current problems with her as you move forward from this point.  That said, I think it is good for us all to look at our own past behavior with a critical eye as this is how we learn and grow.