Unconditional Love

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Unconditional Love ... .what does it really mean in an adult relationship?

It is my belief that unconditional love does not exist in an adult relationship.  I do believe one can approach this but never really reach it entirely.  Why is that? 

Adult relationships come with a certain set of expectations ... .primarily that we expect to be treated with the same respect, caring, honesty and trust we give our partner.  To love "unconditionally" means when these are violated we excuse and forgive them immediately, we do not make an issue of it, we let it go.  To love "unconditionally" means that there is nothing your partner can do/say that will not be excused and forgiven immediately without holding on to any negative emotions.   

How many people here can honestly say this is true always in any of their relationships?

In my relationships I do essentially love unconditionally ... .note the emphasis on essentially.  While I am a forgiving person I have limits, boundaries, expectations.  There are lines I have drawn in stone that cannot, or should not, ever be violated. 

What about you?  Let's discuss this.   

[C.Stein]

Unconditional Love ... .what does it really mean in an adult relationship?

It is my belief that unconditional love does not exist in an adult relationship.  I do believe one can approach this but never really reach it entirely.  Why is that? 

Adult relationships come with a certain set of expectations ... .primarily that we expect to be treated with the same respect, caring, honesty and trust we give our partner.  To love "unconditionally" means when these are violated we excuse and forgive them immediately, we do not make an issue of it, we let it go.  To love "unconditionally" means that there is nothing your partner can do/say that will not be excused and forgiven immediately without holding on to any negative emotions.   

How many people here can honestly say this is true always in any of their relationships?

In my relationships I do essentially love unconditionally ... .note the emphasis on essentially.  While I am a forgiving person I have limits, boundaries, expectations.  There are lines I have drawn in stone that cannot, or should not, ever be violated. 

What about you?  Let's discuss this.   

[once removed]

good topic! i tend to agree with your thesis.

we might be talking about two kinds of love though, interpersonal love vs general love for humanity (or whatever you want to call them).

i was raised to love all human beings, and generally, i do, or i try. there are lots of people i dont like, even despise. none of them belong in my life. there are lots of things a person i do like, who is in my life, could do that would change the nature of our relationship. those are interpersonal conditions, yeah. but in general, theres nothing anyone could do that would cause me to completely lose sight of their humanity.

i dont have fond feelings for my ex; my feelings are mostly indifference. i love her as a human being, a worldly sister, a child of god, as i do everyone else.

thats the unconditional part, for me, that will never change.

[C.Stein]

To be more specific ... .adult relationship in this context primarily means a romantic relationship, although it can also be extended to any intimate adult relationship (i.e. there is emotional risk involved).

I agree there can be some ambiguity here as I was also taught to love and respect all living things.  I see a "love" for humanity more as a live and let live kind of love which is more an issue of respect for me.  I respect the rights of any living organism to be who/what they are and want to be, without interference or judgment.  In some circumstances the "judgment" part can be difficult but it is still something I strive for.

In order to understand unconditional love I guess we should have a working definition of what love is.  It's the age old question ... .what is love?  Is it just a series of neurochemical reactions in our brain?

www.scq.ubc.ca/is-there-a-neurochemical-basis-for-falling-in-love/

What does love mean to people here?  When I see people speak of still loving their exs (me included) I also find myself asking what is it about my ex that I truly love given the pain and damage inflicted?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey C.Stein, I no longer subscribe to "unconditional love" between adults, which is often an excuse for abuse in a BPD r/s.  Love is one thing; allowing oneself to be the victim of abuse is another.  I don't find it loving to be treated like a doormat.  You could say that I was naive in the ways of love didn't comprehend that I was being manipulated by an unkind person suffering from BPD.  No more.  Now I love myself too much to ever let myself be the object of someone else's abuse again.  That's my boundary.  I'm still capable of love after BPD, but it's a healthy, caring kind of love with a thoughtful person who treats me well.

LuckyJim

[C.Stein]

I no longer subscribe to "unconditional love" between adults, which is often an excuse for abuse in a BPD r/s.  Love is one thing; allowing oneself to be the victim of abuse is another.  I don't find it loving to be treated like a doormat.

I agree LJ.  In fact, doormat came to mind when I was writing the initial post.  I believe in many cases what a pwBPD "needs" or expects is unconditional love and it is the main reason why these relationships fail or are fraught with difficulty at best.  I agree within the context of a relationship with a borderline this expectation/need for unconditional love more or less means being a lapdog/doormat.  No matter what they do or say the expectation is you will forgive and forget ... .sacrificing your own emotional well being and even in some cases accepting responsibility for their actions.  This does not come about without consequence and IMO is essentially allowing yourself to be lapdog/doormat/abused.  

Perhaps we can mistake "unconditional" love here for allowing ourselves to be treated like this?  

[woundedPhoenix]

Unconditional love, i tried that for a long time, and in the end you realise everyone has a breaking point, the moment a condition comes into play where there is no recovering from relationshipswise.

So i try to retitled it, to "love with extraordinary levels of understanding and forgiveness". And it can work, as long as you have a partner that can return the favor.

[C.Stein]

So i try to retitled it, to "love with extraordinary levels of understanding and forgiveness". And it can work, as long as you have a partner that can return the favor.

And that would be the problem (see bold).  This is an expectation/condition and one that most pwBPD are incapable of.

I do agree it is a better working definition of what is typically required in a relationship with a borderline.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey CS-

In my experience the only family members who practice unconditional love are canine, which reminds me of a quote: "I'm trying to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am."

But I agree, unconditional love is impossible in a relationship because a relationship is a bond, an arrangement, an agreement, an attachment, between two humans and requires negotiation and compromise, and is therefore conditional.

Now it is possible to love someone unconditionally, although love is not enough to make a relationship work, compatibility, values and goals overlap, timing, life stage, all necessary, and even then it's challenging.  But I do love my borderline ex, as well as some other exes, unconditionally, and always will, unless they turn into serial killers or something, well not sure, maybe even then because it is not voluntary for me, I love who they are as humans and as women and that's just the way it is.  But trying to be in a relationship with someone I'm incompatible with yet also unconditionally love is a built-in conflict, so gotta let that go, and eventually I'm going to bump into someone I'll end up unconditionally loving and be compatible with, and then we'll negotiate our way through a relationship, and then will that love become conditional?  I'll get back to you on that... .

[puck]

To love "unconditionally" means that there is nothing your partner can do/say that will not be excused and forgiven immediately without holding on to any negative emotions.   

I don't see that unconditional love necessarily requires immediate forgiveness or a lack of persistent negative emotions. Instead, the possibility of forgiveness and an absence of negative emotions toward the offending other is always possible under certain moral conditions for the giver of unconditional love. It doesn't necessarily equate to loving feelings being felt at all times, with no transaction cost between offending situations.

I'd put it this way: unconditional love is a situation in which love is granted to a recipient irrespective of the recipient's having merited such esteem. Such love is an undercurrent to an overall relationship, but need not be its defining characteristic. Unconditional love is the acknowledgement of the innate value of the other, and the commitment to see that value indefinitely.

Maintaining a state of unconditional love is possible even under tension where moral or interpersonal disapproval is felt toward the recipient. For instance, the mother of a serial killer can love her child for his role as her child and his innate dignity as a fellow human, while simultaneously despising his actions and not forgiving them until sincere repentance is shown (and it may ntop be).

[purekalm]

Interesting everyone's thoughts on the matter so far.

I would have to disagree though. Unconditional love does not mean forgiving immediately, it means forgiving everything, even if it takes time. It does not however, put you in the place of a doormat because you are to love yourself as well. Forgiving doesn't mean putting yourself back in harms way, although that is part of it at times. I think people just give up too easy nowadays and expectations are too high, in a normal or average relationship anyway.

Unconditional love means you love regardless, not only if your love is returned. My personal belief is that is impossible without God. We are so selfish, always us first, no matter what, even when we think we're not doing it we are. Co-dependency in itself is extremely selfish and yet, the person (myself included) can't see this when they are in the middle of it.

My husband just left yesterday, a day after his birthday, and he has put my son and me through hell, but unconditional love doesn't take circumstances into account, and so I believe I will always love him and hope the best for him even though he's chosen not to do the same for me.

My parents have put me through hell, and with they help of God, this site and other people, stories, movies and so much more I was able to forgive them. It doesn't excuse their behavior, even their continued behavior, but it doesn't mean I don't love them and wouldn't help them if they were in need.

I think, before anyone said that they tried unconditional love and it didn't work that they should think about it a little bit more to see if their love was actually conditional the whole time and couldn't see it. I don't say this to act like some saint or whatever, I have plenty of issues myself. But love, unconditional love is something unique and special and is often confused with love, co-dependency, infatuation, adoration and the like. My opinion anyways. 

Unconditional love kind of goes hand in hand with grace. We don't deserve it, yet it can be granted anyways.

[C.Stein]

But I agree, unconditional love is impossible in a relationship because a relationship is a bond, an arrangement, an agreement, an attachment, between two humans and requires negotiation and compromise, and is therefore conditional.

Couldn't agree more (see bold).

Now it is possible to love someone unconditionally, although love is not enough to make a relationship work, compatibility, values and goals overlap, timing, life stage, all necessary, and even then it's challenging.  But I do love my borderline ex, as well as some other exes, unconditionally, and always will, unless they turn into serial killers or something, well not sure, maybe even then because it is not voluntary for me, I love who they are as humans and as women and that's just the way it is.

I also love my ex and always will ... .BUT there are parts of her I don't love ... .and that alone means it cannot be unconditional.  I do not love being treated with disrespect, or lied to/decieved, or manipulated, or being cheated on.  These are all things my ex did and I do not in any way love (or even like) the part of her that this behavior comes from.  :)oes that mean I don't still love her ... .no ... .but I can't say it is an unconditional love either.  

[C.Stein]

Maintaining a state of unconditional love is possible even under tension where moral or interpersonal disapproval is felt toward the recipient. For instance, the mother of a serial killer can love her child for his role as her child and his innate dignity as a fellow human, while simultaneously despising his actions and not forgiving them until sincere repentance is shown (and it may ntop be).

There was a reason I did not mention parent/child relationships because if unconditional love is possible it would be in this case.   This however is not the case in romantic/intimate relationships.

[fromheeltoheal]

I also love my ex and always will ... .BUT there are parts of her I don't love ... .and that alone means it cannot be unconditional.  I do not love being treated with disrespect, or lied to/decieved, or manipulated, or being cheated on.  These are all things my ex did and I do not in any way love (or even like) the part of her that this behavior comes from.  :)oes that mean I don't still love her ... .no ... .but I can't say it is an unconditional love either.

See, I can go beyond that with my ex: sure, some of her behaviors were completely unacceptable, which is why I left her, but I know why she practices them, a dysfunctional way to get her needs met, and we know it's dysfunctional because it didn't work for her, I left, abandoned her, the worst thing that can happen for a borderline, but she is not her behaviors, and I will always love that beautiful woman under all that crap, that woman doing what she can with what she has and still not getting what she wants and needs.  Coming from that place gives me compassion for her too, and it's pretty easy to focus on that love and compassion when she's completely out of my life, the only possibility for me.

[C.Stein]

but she is not her behaviors

Going a bit off topic here, but can't this be seen as splitting?  Her behavior comes from her inner core.  While there is that beautiful person underneath all that, which is also the case with my ex, there is that other person, the disordered person, where the dysfunctional behavior comes from.  That person is just as much a part of her as is the beautiful person.  You can't separate the two anymore than you can separate hydrogen from water and have it still be water.  This is especially true if there is a genetic component (debatable) involved with the disorder.

In detaching I have struggled in a big way (and still do) with accepting my ex as a whole, the good and the bad.  I deeply love and believe in the good person I see in her and despise the disordered person who I let bring me to the lowest point of my life to date.  While I can see the value at times in keeping the behavior independent of the person, particularly the emotionally explosive type, that behavior still comes from within that person.  As much as I want to "reach in" and remove the disorder and associated behavior from my ex I can't.  It is a part of her and will always be a part of her, treatment or not.

There is also behavior I have seen reported on this forum and in my own relationship where the line between disorder driven behavior and personal character is very very blurry.  

[Sadly]

I think unconditional  love is an action more than a feeling. We usually consider that love is a feeling but feelings are a response to something we get from someone or something, therefore feelings are conditional.
Unconditional love is the action, the choice to strive for the wellbeing of another. The feeling you get from acting with love is your reward , the return you get for your own action.
Love is not the same thing as a relationship. A relationship is conditional, a working partnership. A relationship can end because the partnership doesn't function properly but unconditional love towards that person can remain. Sometimes ending that relationship can be the way to unconditional love. To love unconditionally is to act with love under all conditions, if you have to do something or be a certain way to receive love that's conditional. If it's given to you freely without reservation then it's unconditional. I read here constantly that we have to love ourselves; to be able to do that knowing all our faults puts you in a position to give that to others. So you have to recognise and forgive your own imperfections before you are able to give it to others.
Don't think I'll be going for a sainthood any time soon then.
Love from Sadly. x

[Butterflies free]

Excellent topic... .

My exBPDbf would recycle between me and the gf before me, (whom he left me for and has since left her once again) and he would chastise me with "she loves me unconditionally!"... .

Here's my response to that nonsense and truly heartfelt conviction:
 "Unconditional love does not exist between a man and a woman. If that were the case, there would be no need for divorce attorneys." "Unconditional love can only exist between a mother and her child; a child grows inside the mother, the bond starts at the umbilical cord."

Looking at the big picture of life ... .humans are flawed... .we're not perfect... .not all mothers are loving as they should be... .but the bond of life starts in the womb... .from that perspective, it seemed a logical argument to strike him with... .

[chump]

Hey C.S.,

A simple expression that captures this for me is "Love is unconditional, relationships are not."

Chump.

[JerryRG]

I think about this once in a while, wonder what a relationship would be like if both partners loved each other unconditionally. I believe it's an ideal but not realistic, something to strive toward but never completely obtainable.

The strange thing was, my relationship with my exgf, she spoke of love, unconditional love, yet she had no real love herself, not that I could see.

She expected me and others to live up to this standard, yet she could not, would not, she had very little empathy if any at all.

She could show compassion for strangers more than her family or me. Her love was ideas she never put into practice.

[rfriesen]

To love "unconditionally" means that there is nothing your partner can do/say that will not be excused and forgiven immediately without holding on to any negative emotions. 

I find this a strange definition of "unconditional love" for a couple of reasons. First, to me it suggests a level of complete emotional indifference and detachment ("excused and forgiven immediately without holding on to any negative emotions" that isn't compatible with love, since love, it seems to me, involves a certain level of engagement and concern for the loved one's well-being. Second, it doesn't sound like an emotion that has the loved one's best interests at heart. If the loved person acts in a way that is self-harming, how can that "be excused and forgiven immediately without holding on to any negative emotions"? At a minimum, if I love someone who is hurting themselves (including by lashing out unjustifiably at others), I'll want to get through to them by expressing the worry and pain that their self-harm causes people who care. For someone to feel truly loved, they have to know that acting in self-destructive ways is painful to those who love them. In other words, I don't see how a person could actually feel loved if they sensed that there was nothing they could do that would cause negative emotions.

So if that's our definition of unconditional love, then I think it's a contradictory notion. Even outside of adult relationships. If a child feels that nothing he or she does can cause negative emotions in a parent, then I don't think that child will feel loved. Certainly it doesn't sound like a recipe for bringing up a well-adjusted kid, so I don't see how that's a form of genuine love.

As chump's post suggests, though, maybe we should think of unconditional love as the capacity to continue caring and wanting another person's well-being, no matter how destructive their behaviour has been and how much they've hurt us. That, I think, is compatible with establishing boundaries, and may require it. I'm not saying I've achieved unconditional love in this sense either, but like others here, I do still care a lot for my ex and wish she would find lasting happiness. I've certainly had a lot of anger and hurt to work through, and had to leave the relationship for my own sake and hers. But I still love her, and wish her well.

[C.Stein]

Good discussion so far.  

I think unconditional  love is an action more than a feeling.

It is good that you point this out.  The feeling of love is more an ideological state and a highly subjective one at that.  I think back on my past and I remember people I have loved ... .I say to myself I still "feel" love for them but what does that really mean?  I don't physically feel anything, I can't show my love through action, it is just this intangible state of mind.  

I want to believe in the idea of unconditional love between romantic partners.  It is a beautiful ideal that everyone should strive for.  That ideal though is all too often used as a tool ... .and as hideous as it may be ... .a tool to manipulate.  When someone says that to me in a relationship I almost recoil like I have been slapped and emotionally speaking I have been.

We usually consider that love is a feeling but feelings are a response to something we get from someone or something, therefore feelings are conditional.   Unconditional love is the action, the choice to strive for the wellbeing of another. The feeling you get from acting with love is your reward , the return you get for your own action.

Interesting take on this and it makes sense up to a point.  I see a possible chicken and egg scenario here in that if you don't feel love you can't act on that feeling unconditionally.  I totally get what you are saying here though and I will ask what is love without action?

Love is not the same thing as a relationship. A relationship is conditional, a working partnership. A relationship can end because the partnership doesn't function properly but unconditional love towards that person can remain. Sometimes ending that relationship can be the way to unconditional love. To love unconditionally is to act with love under all conditions, if you have to do something or be a certain way to receive love that's conditional. If it's given to you freely without reservation then it's unconditional.

Do think that perhaps to love unconditionally in a romantic relationship is more about acting with respect under all conditions and it really has nothing to do with love at all?

I look at my own relationship here.  Regardless of the things my ex did that hurt me I still loved her.  That being true I don't see that as meaning it is unconditional.  I let her sweep hurtful things she had done under the carpet and marginalize my emotional well being in order to preserve her own emotional well being.  I can see how easily it could be said that allowing this to happen is an act of unconditional love as it is what she needed me to do ... .but was it really?

While I still loved her in spite of the things she was doing/saying, my ability to show that love was increasingly compromised as I was withdrawing emotionally each time she hurt me.  After her serious betrayal of trust which blew apart the foundation of our entire relationship I withdrew in a major way, both emotionally and physically.  What she literally needed from me was an immediate dismissal of her selfish and destructive act and to pretend like it never happened.  I couldn't do it again, not that time.

I still loved her though and I was still there for her when she needed me but I had essentially "checked out" of the relationship due to the emotional turmoil, pain, depression, anxiety I was feeling.  The more she ignored the damage she had done and the emotional pain and distress she had caused the worse it got.  

Now the way I view this idea of "unconditional" love is that in order for it to be real in action I would have put aside my emotional turmoil and pain (once again) and moved on like nothing happened, continuing to love her in the same exact fashion I did before ... .and ideologically I did.  However I couldn't find a way to act on that love unconditionally and emotional and/or physical withdrawal is not something I would ever consider acting with love no matter how understandable it was under the circumstances.  :)id I (do I) still love her?  Absolutely, but her own actions and words severely compromised my ability to act on that love unconditionally.

For someone to feel truly loved, they have to know that acting in self-destructive ways is painful to those who love them. In other words, I don't see how a person could actually feel loved if they sensed that there was nothing they could do that would cause negative emotions.

Within the mind of a borderline I don't believe this is the case.  Holding them accountable for their actions will generally lead to shame and self-hatred.  That being said I believe it is something that needs to be done, it just doesn't lead to them feeling loved.

[rfriesen]

Within the mind of a borderline I don't believe this is the case.  Holding them accountable for their actions will generally lead to shame and self-hatred.  That being said I believe it is something that needs to be done, it just doesn't lead to them feeling loved.

I'm very far from an expert on BPD, so obviously my response has to be taken with a grain of salt. But there were a few times when my ex acted inappropriately in front of me - e.g. extreme sexual innuendo with her best friends's husband - and I took her aside and told her that I thought she was way over the line and I wouldn't put up with that. It was hurtful to her best friend, hurtful to me, and she and the best friend's husband looked ridiculous. My ex kept telling me for weeks afterwards how much she loved the feeling of me putting my foot down and letting her know what I wouldn't put up with. That response caught me off-guard, as I had never been with someone before who liked to test boundaries the way she did. And, for a while, she seemed to love the feeling that I would take control and insist that she respect boundaries. I think it made her feel safe and protected, up to a point.

There was a limit to this, however. Or at least a limit to how well I was able to manage it. And, as you suggest, at some point it seemed to become too painful or enraging for her to be held accountable, and she would accuse me of doing all the inappropriate things she was doing, just to turn the dynamic around.

Maybe if I had had a better understanding of our dynamic in the beginning, I could have enforced boundaries in a way that held the relationship together. Maybe not. But I'm pretty confident in saying that my ex would have felt less loved by me if I simply excused and forgave her inappropriate actions immediately. In hindsight, I would say she was pretty clearly testing me for a reaction and that she associated, rightly or wrongly, some degree of possessiveness with love. (I would suggest rightly, though I think the line between healthy possessiveness and unhealthy jealousy is a little fuzzy and will vary widely depending on the individual relationship and circumstances. I definitely do NOT think my ex had a healthy sense of possessiveness, as she was extremely jealous and liked to try provoking those feelings in me. So I'm not holding this forward as an ideal model of love, by any means. But I know my ex needed to feel a certain amount of possessiveness from me to feel loved, and wanted to feel that I could enforce boundaries ... .even when she went on to rage against those same boundaries ... .)

From my experience with my ex and many of the stories posted here, it sounds to me like many pwBPD want contradictory qualities in a partner -- on the one hand, a parental figure who will show love by enforcing boundaries, on the other hand "a partner in crime" who will rebel against all boundaries and restrictions and continue to love even when all boundaries are busted. That, again to my mind at least, seems to be why so many of us were driven to the point of eventually trying to be the "adult" in the relationship and ending up in the awkward position of parental figure in a romantic relationship with a very rebellious child.

[Hlinthewiking]

In my first (NPD) and my last relationship (BPD), by you're classification and standards, I loved them both unconditionally, not even essentially, my boundaries were not followed and I never enforced my boundaries as I should in fear of loosing them, I would always forgive them immediately and simply beg them not to do it again, but offer no consequences if they did, eventually my emotional pain would force me to break up.

I would correct to "Unconditional love doesn't exist in a HEALTHY adult relationship".

I would like to add that I believe that Unconditional Love in that way exists because of lack of self love. If someone loves his/her partner that deeply, the only things that keeps them from loving them unconditionally is self love and the superego. Essentially you have a struggle between the love you feel for yourself and for your partner, when boundaries are kept and the relationship is healthy, you can keep self love and mutual love, the relationship will prosper, when you have a BPD relationship and your boundaries are not respected you have a conflict where you are torn between the love you feel for your partner and yourself. Just my opinion.

[Moselle]

I also do not believe love can be unconditional.

We are conditioned in childhood whether dysfunctional or healthy into  understanding and experiencing love in different ways. Whose perception or version of love is correct?

When leaving my ex, I said " I understand you do not love me", she looked perturbed and said "I have loved you... .I've loved you my way".

There is of course a text book version of love which involves caring, respect, freedom, forgiveness, service, Intimacy etc. And this differs significantly from the BPD version, but who is to say the text book is right? Who's perception is it anyway?

I think love is messy, and not as linear as we care to imagine it. It's best applied in the moment and appreciated each day if we have it. If we feel like we are an overflowing miracle, it is likely that we have found love for today. Tomorrow holds no guarantees for love.

[fromheeltoheal]

It's best applied in the moment and appreciated each day if we have it. If we feel like we are an overflowing miracle, it is likely that we have found love for today. Tomorrow holds no guarantees for love.

Like!

[C.Stein]

There was a limit to this, however. Or at least a limit to how well I was able to manage it. And, as you suggest, at some point it seemed to become too painful or enraging for her to be held accountable, and she would accuse me of doing all the inappropriate things she was doing, just to turn the dynamic around.

This goes to show how truly variable the disorder is and isn't.  I also called out my ex on her inappropriate and hurtful behavior.  I wouldn't go so far to say she appreciated it and felt loved by it but I do think at times she respected it.  At times she would regress into a childlike state when I attempted to talk to her about these things, clearly demonstrating some self-hatred and shame, other times she would get angry and self-righteous.  In pretty much all of the cases though I think she found a way to convince/lie to herself that she was not responsible, there was always some excuse or justification for what she had done.  The more hurtful the thing she did or said the more she needed to do this.  This is why nothing ever changed even though she expressed a desire to not do these things.

Through all this what she did expect was for me to let her sweep under the carpet all the negative, bad, hurtful things she did and said.  This "need" of hers was very much like a child's need to be forgiven by a parent, a need for "unconditional" love.  She not only needed me to forgive her but more importantly she needed me to not be impacted by what she had done ... .to swallow my pain and push on like a good trooper.

This brings me to acceptance ... .which I think is a huge part of this idea of unconditional love.  In order to even have a chance at reaching this ideal state one must accept the other unconditionally as they are ... .the good, the bad, the ugly ... .all of it.  When I find myself saying ... ."if only she" ... .or "what if she" then I have imposed conditions on my acceptance of her and by extension my love ... .not the feeling of love but the continued love through action without restrictions (i.e. not withdrawing behind a emotional barrier for protection).

It's best applied in the moment and appreciated each day if we have it. If we feel like we are an overflowing miracle, it is likely that we have found love for today. Tomorrow holds no guarantees for love.

Like!

 

[valet]

Good topic. From an analytical perspective, I agree.

I think that the exception occurs because of the nature of the word 'love', or perhaps, our societal configuration surrounding it.

When you look at it in the dictionary, in no way does it imply unconditionality.

love
ləv/Submit
noun
1.
an intense feeling of deep affection.

2.
a person or thing that one loves.

verb
1.
feel a deep romantic or sexual attachment to (someone).

But through various channels, be they religious, political, cultural, etc, we tend to accept the definition of such that it reflects unconditionality.

So, perhaps if people read the dictionary a bit more we would have better boundaries!

 

[joeramabeme]

I think Valet is onto it; where does the term Unconditional Love come from?  I am sure that I have heard it from past friends that spoke about it in an aspiring way.  Or perhaps I was told that God loves me unconditionally. 

C. Stein, I am not sure I understand the underlying nature of your question?  Is it that you seek UL but cannot find it? 

If you could separate out your exes disordered transgressions, what would that leave you?  A one-sided memory?  Is that love?

The act of love, by its nature, must involve all its opposite components - else it is not really love at all.  So by that definition, unconditional love is an acceptance of all the good/bad that comprise the object of our love and not just the isolation of certain facets.

Perhaps this is what you are expressing as a struggle? 

In this regard, I am sure you do have UL for your ex but perhaps it does not feel the way you were expecting; some sort of angelic state that is a release from the hurt and discord you feel?

To me the truth is that UL is likely a peaceful feeling that the world is what it is and to be at peace with just that.

So, I see this question as a struggle with the reality of our duality; if UL does exist, it must reside on both sides of what is desired and undesired, with no judgement except to embrace it.

[C.Stein]

C. Stein, I am not sure I understand the underlying nature of your question?  Is it that you seek UL but cannot find it?

I didn't start the topic for my benefit, although it has helped me to somewhat solidify my thoughts on the issue ... .so to that end.

I don't feel unconditional love is impossible in romantic relationships ... .it is just not consistently sustainable and therefore doesn't truly exist.  I do believe there can be moments and even periods of what could be considered unconditional love.  I think the closest we will ever come to this is during the honeymoon/idealization period in a relationship, which is perhaps the reason why I see the term used frequently on the forum.  It is also the reason why I refuse to make life changing decisions during this period of a relationship.

I don't see the feeling of love being synonymous with unconditional.  Unconditional love is a state of being ... .an expression of the feeling of love.  I feel love for my ex, even now, but just because I feel it does not make it unconditional ... .essentially unconditional maybe, but not completely without conditions.  Why?  I believe in order to truly love unconditionally you need to be completely emotionally available and vulnerable ... .without barriers or walls.  Once the barriers and walls start to appear a persons ability to express unconditional love is compromised.  

These barriers and walls we develop over the course of our lives due to anything that negatively impacts us emotionally.  It happens within romantic relationships as well as outside them.  When we can let someone past all these barriers and walls we have built to protect ourselves then and only then can you unconditionally love another.

I do feel this can occur in relationships at times and the more emotionally safe you feel with another person the more likely you will be able to express unconditional love on a consistent basis.  There were moments in my past relationships where I believe I did experience this state of being, even with my recent ex.  However there are factors, both within the relationship and outside of it that compromise our feelings of emotional safety as well as our ability to express our love.  When the walls/barriers go up, for whatever reason, the love becomes conditional.  The feeling of love may not go away but your ability to express it unconditional does.

For myself I think the closest I have come to truly expressing unconditional love on a consistent and sustainable basis is with my cats (past and present), sad as that may be.  There is nothing they could do to me that would impact my ability to express my love for them.  My current cat might scratch me and I might get momentarily upset and scold him but I will still express my love in the same fashion even right after being scratched.  I don't punish my cat when he does something bad or take out my frustrations on him if I am having a tough day.  I won't withdraw my affection towards him or ignore him because I am hurting inside or stressed out or any one of the many reasons why people withdraw into themselves.  He always gets the same love and affection regardless ... .unconditionally.  How many of us can say the same about a romantic partner?

[Sadly]

C Stein
I 100% concur and so does Sweetie ( my cat) 

[joeramabeme]

C. Stein, I am not sure I understand the underlying nature of your question?  Is it that you seek UL but cannot find it?

I didn't start the topic for my benefit, although it has helped me to somewhat solidify my thoughts on the issue ... .so to that end.

Ya, sorry about that, I realized that much later after I hit the Post button.

I do feel this can occur in relationships at times and the more emotionally safe you feel with another person the more likely you will be able to express unconditional love on a consistent basis. 

One other thought I had about all this that I removed from my reply was the idea that "unconditional love" potentially was in conflict with our survival instincts.

I suppose that this is a concept bigger than I care to write about but sounds something like; we fall in love because of instinctual survival reasons; safety, procreation, companionship.  All of that is about "me".  The expression of love or caring is in accordance with fulfilling that need. 

Now I know that sounds harsh, distant and removed; but simply from an observational point of view the question for humanity is what purpose does love serve the species?  It could be that this is the "soul-purpose" of living but even that has a slant towards the self such as salvation or pleasing to a deity.

And I have also heard the argument that none of our behaviors could be altruistic as the seeking of that outcome is also, self-serving by fulfilling our need to be altruistic.

The only example I can personally think of expressing UL with is when a friend shut me off on a particularly painful topic because he could not handle it.  I was at first angry and then let it go and kept the friendship intact and words unspoken because I accepted that this was who he was and all he was able to give.  Perhaps this example is unconditional because I no longer desired anything from him other than who he be who he is and my survival instincts would have to be met otherwise.

Lastly, as it relates to UL with our exes wBPD; I simply could never see this as being a possible scenario because the reasons we are involved to begin with our likely deeply entwined in some part of our psyche trying to resolve other issues.

Deep question, really enjoyed reading everyone's responses. 

Thanks