Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

[ArleighBurke]

My BPDwife and I havn't had a great last 2 weeks - nothing too bad, but I was sick for a week then when i got better we just didn't really seem to connect - she complained for the last week that I was "distant" and not talking to her - but I felt like it didn't matter what I tried to talk to her about she just couldn't hold a conversation.

Anyway - the other night we had a very typical evening - sitting on the couch watching TV. Some small talk. I rubbed her shoulders which I do most nights. After the movie (11pm) I suggested we watch the new episode of the TV series based on the movie we just watched - she suggested we watch it in bed. So we lay in bed and I gently stroked her back. After it finished she rolled over and layed on my chest. We were both yawning lots. She then started being a little little chatty - but I was ready to sleep! I said "you're not tired are you". She wasn't - so I got the impression she actually wanted sex. I didn't want to because it was late, I was tired, and I was worried about her frame of mind (more soon). I considered just having sex anyway, but I know I'd feel horrible after. I considered rolling over and just sleeping - but I know that would throw her - she wouldn't know what was going on. So I decided to open up!

Me: It's really good laying with you like this. I feel quite close to you. And I enjoyed going on the picnic today with you. I'm getting the feeling that you are open to make love, but I'm not sure about that. You've said before that after a period apart (it's been 2 weeks), you often have sex because you feel you "should", but then feel bad after because you feel you are "selling yourself out". I guess I don't think we've really been that close today - so I wonder whether this is that situation.
She stopped rubbing my chest straight away, but stayed laying on me. After a few minutes:
Me: I'm guessing that your long silence is a bad thing - that I've upset you. I'm sorry! I love laying here with you. I just want to make sure that we will both enjoy it... .
Her: I'm going to go.
Gone!

So the next day I talked to her:
Her: I felt stupid - I'd put myself out there and you rejected me.
Her: I put in all the moves to be close to you and you rejected me.
Her: The balls in your court now to be close - I'm not going to put myself out there anymore.

Not - Wow, you listen to me and are willing to sacrifice something you love to ensure I feel close!
Not - Wow - you're happy to go slow to make sure I feel good
Not - Wow - I've always asked you to be open with me and you were!

Sigh

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

Was this asking too much of her, opening up like this, so she can understand your feelings?

So I decided to open up!

Me: It's really good laying with you like this. I feel quite close to you. And I enjoyed going on the picnic today with you.

Nice gentle intro there... .so far... .

I'm getting the feeling that you are open to make love, but I'm not sure about that. You've said before that after a period apart (it's been 2 weeks), you often have sex because you feel you "should", but then feel bad after because you feel you are "selling yourself out". I guess I don't think we've really been that close today - so I wonder whether this is that situation.

... .but unfortunately this wasn't really talking about your feelings or what you wanted. From what you'd said, you were tired, and perhaps fearful... .

... .but what you did here was tell her what you thought she was feeling, or what you expected her to do, which is pretty invalidating. (Note: Being told what I'm feeling was one thing that always pissed me off, even if my wife was right, and especially if she was wrong!)

Note all the "You" statements in that and how few "I" statements there were.

So I'm not surprised it all went downhill from there.

If you had a re-do on this evening, what might you have said instead?

[ArleighBurke]

It really was about how *I* was feeling. Tired, yes, but mostly feeling down/alone. Sex is supposed to be this loving togetherness. And i didn't feel that from her - I felt like she was "doing what she was supposed to do". How can you say that in a loving way?

Just saying "I'm too tired" (even saying it nicely) misses the point. It doesnt' talk about how I *feel* about our interactions. But anything that talks about that is going to push her away. Is it better to lie and keep the peace, or be truthful/open and push her away?

For years I have tried to be open with her, but I can't find a way to. Whenever I really open up, even if it is about stuff that is 0% related to her, she finds a way to make it about her and get offended/pushed away. So my default is to NOT open up. But then she complains that I'm closed... .  Most of me just accepts that she has a mental illness, and that this is just the way it is - I stay closed because she can't handle intimacy. But there is a small part of me that doesn't give up - that wants to keep trying - that wants to believe there is a way I can give her that connection and she be OK with it.

But each time i try it fails.

So the answer to your question is: if I was to be in that situation again I would say:
    - I love being close with you and had a great day
    - I would LOVE to make love with you, that would be wonderful
    - but I can't - I'm just too tired. I want to be awake to enjoy the closeness with you. Perhaps we can spend time together earlier tomorrow night. We can <chat/massage/etc>

[Grey Kitty]

Sex is supposed to be this loving togetherness. And i didn't feel that from her - I felt like she was "doing what she was supposed to do". How can you say that in a loving way?

That is a hard one to say. BPD or not.

If this is a situational / occasional thing with her, and more often than not when she's interested it is better, I would seriously consider not telling her anything directly about it and just use a "safer" excuse like being tired.

If sex with her always (or even usually) feels that way, that's a really tough situation. I'd think long and hard about what you want and how you feel about it before saying anything. (Please say more on this if it is the case)