Moments of clarity?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My ex broke up with me a few weeks ago. Needless to say I miss her to death and think about her every single moment of the day.
However, I do not reach out to her, although I love her to the point of feeling sick to my stomach all day.
I'm trying to heal on the inside and to understand what happened, I read many of the text messages we sent. I noticed my ex actually did have quite a few moments of clarity.

My ex used to say these things quite a lot:
"I am not normal. There is something wrong with me, and I hurt people as I get closer to them."
"I always rage at you because I love you"
"I need help, because my emotions are off all the time"
"I will push you away when I truly start caring for you"
"I feel sick to my stomach, because I know I will dash this relationship to pieces"
"When I'm angry, I'm filled with shame, but I can't stop the anger"
"I can't deal with the shame of how I'm treating you all the time"
"I can't break this cycle of emotions"
"As soon as I pull away, I am overwhelmed by a fear of abandonment"
"I usually flee to all kinds of addictions when I'm in a relationship, because that is the only way I know to deal with what I am feeling on the inside"
"I need someone to take care of me"
"I need someone that can make me feel safe and keep me under her wings, like a child is safe with her mother"
"When I'm angry at someone, I am unable to see there's also good in them"

When she broke up, she broke up and seemed to be convincing me why it was a good idea to break up. That seemed a little strange, so I asked her "Why are you convincing me we have to break up?" She answered and said "I'm not convincing YOU! I am trying to convince myself here that it's a good idea we part ways! And I'm doing it out loud." Again, she knew she had to convince herself of that.
And then she said "You don't want to break up and so now I'm the one who is going to be sorry in a few weeks or months from now, all because you refused to break up with me!"

So here's the reason she finally gave me of why she broke up with me: She said she couldn't deal with all the guilt and shame of hurting me. And last but not least: I don't go to the gym often enough (I went 3 times a week).

I feel like reason number 1 is the real reason and she will remember that when she has a moment of clarity, the second reason is probably just something she will hold onto when she is having her BPD emotions all fired up. I'm actually pretty sure that by now she has thought of more things to justify her actions. But since there has been no contact in any way and we live about 1,5hr apart and don't share mutual friends, I truly don't know anything about what she has been spreading about me and what not.

However, as I pondered everything she wrote and said I realized some people with BPD actually have quite a few moments of clarity. Does any of you recognize this?

[TheRose]

My ex broke up with me a few weeks ago. Needless to say I miss her to death and think about her every single moment of the day.
However, I do not reach out to her, although I love her to the point of feeling sick to my stomach all day.
I'm trying to heal on the inside and to understand what happened, I read many of the text messages we sent. I noticed my ex actually did have quite a few moments of clarity.

My ex used to say these things quite a lot:
"I am not normal. There is something wrong with me, and I hurt people as I get closer to them."
"I always rage at you because I love you"
"I need help, because my emotions are off all the time"
"I will push you away when I truly start caring for you"
"I feel sick to my stomach, because I know I will dash this relationship to pieces"
"When I'm angry, I'm filled with shame, but I can't stop the anger"
"I can't deal with the shame of how I'm treating you all the time"
"I can't break this cycle of emotions"
"As soon as I pull away, I am overwhelmed by a fear of abandonment"
"I usually flee to all kinds of addictions when I'm in a relationship, because that is the only way I know to deal with what I am feeling on the inside"
"I need someone to take care of me"
"I need someone that can make me feel safe and keep me under her wings, like a child is safe with her mother"
"When I'm angry at someone, I am unable to see there's also good in them"

When she broke up, she broke up and seemed to be convincing me why it was a good idea to break up. That seemed a little strange, so I asked her "Why are you convincing me we have to break up?" She answered and said "I'm not convincing YOU! I am trying to convince myself here that it's a good idea we part ways! And I'm doing it out loud." Again, she knew she had to convince herself of that.
And then she said "You don't want to break up and so now I'm the one who is going to be sorry in a few weeks or months from now, all because you refused to break up with me!"

So here's the reason she finally gave me of why she broke up with me: She said she couldn't deal with all the guilt and shame of hurting me. And last but not least: I don't go to the gym often enough (I went 3 times a week).

I feel like reason number 1 is the real reason and she will remember that when she has a moment of clarity, the second reason is probably just something she will hold onto when she is having her BPD emotions all fired up. I'm actually pretty sure that by now she has thought of more things to justify her actions. But since there has been no contact in any way and we live about 1,5hr apart and don't share mutual friends, I truly don't know anything about what she has been spreading about me and what not.

However, as I pondered everything she wrote and said I realized some people with BPD actually have quite a few moments of clarity. Does any of you recognize this?

[Curiously1]

It has only been a few weeks and I empathise with the amount of pain you are going through each day. Hang in there! It will take some time before it becomes a lot less painful. Knowing what is right for you and sorting through how you feel from moment to moment can all be very conflicting and also very confusing and especially during the early stages when your brain is just processing things and picking at every bit of detail to sort through and understand.

BPD is a spectrum and some are more self-aware or determined to work on themselves than others. I do think some have more clarity over others and are all still unique individuals despite the similarities they share that we often read on this board.

Is your ex in therapy? Have you ever had a conversation about her issues casually with her not being defensive about them? Does she apologsie or say sorry after doing something she felt shameful/guilty about?  Or does it feel like/come across as her only justifying reasons why she cannot possibly treat you well?
Was it only through text or could she also express these senstive matters in person?

Based on the texts, it looks as though she knows she has a problem and I wonder what she is doing to make things better for herself.

She shares a lot of insecurities and feelings of helplessness about herself and lots of insight on why she thinks she acts the way she does which is all good to know but I would also be wary of the desire to rescue her even then for all of those things she said despite her having clarity on her actions and behaviours. It is true that they are not having 'BPD' moments all the time and can be more reasonable when they are not as fired up emotionally but what is concerning is the pushing away of you and that not being resolved leading to the break up. Especially the texts, "I need someone to take care of me."  I know you know I don't know her personally. What I know is that pwBPD can be pretty manipulative whether they mean to or not and that can make us feel certain ways that may or may not appeal to us like wanting to fit the rescuing role for them or to feel sorry/pity for them and to be a caregiver that is responsible for their emotions.

Do you feel she made the right choice of pushing you away and breaking up? Do you still have hope that things could work out? When you think about her, what strikes as your main thoughts and concerns about your relationship with her at the moment? What are the immediate things you would like to achieve/focus on for yourself right now?

[TheRose]

Curiously1 - thank you!

My ex is not in therapy and I have had quite a few conversations with her about seeking help without her being defensive or getting angry actually. She once stayed up all night seeking the internet for a form of therapy that could actually help her. And she bought a few books that might help her, etc. We read those books together and talked openly about how she felt and what she wanted to focus on.

She always said sorry after treating me bad, but it was only through text. For example, if we were together and she started treating me bad, we would eventually talk and we would be "okay". But when she left, she would THEN say sorry and apologize through text, right after she left. Never in person. She never seemed able to show any sensitive emotions when we were together. That's why when she broke up with me, she came across as cold and insensitive.

She talked about her ex being a rescuer. And I always felt like she said that to talk me into the role of being a caregiver. The strange thing is though, she painted ALL her exes black. Every single one of them. Except her last ex (the one who left her). That one is completely white. I never quite understood that. Not one bad word about her last ex.

I don't know, It's hard to say she did the right thing in pushing me away. I'd rather have her be in therapy and then work things out together. However, I have to say that I am not looking or trying to get her back. That's why I'm doing no contact. In all honesty, she told me right in the beginning how easy it is for her to recycle after a breakup, even if she's the one who broke up. I know how to get her back exactly, she told me how to. But I'm not trying at all. I don't want to juggle with my own emotions and state of mind right now. In my heart, deep down inside, I do hope she sees the light, gets help and runs back to me so we can all end this love story with "and they lived happily ever after".
But we all know that is not going to happen.

My main concerns when I think about her are actually how I was unable to break this cycle of push and pull and anger and all of that. I wanted to rescue her. I never paid attention to what I needed or wanted in this relationship. It was all about her. And sometimes I would rather have her yell at me, then have her out of my life, because I terribly miss her. Now that concerns me most. Apparently I would still put up with her if it was up to me.
I laid a very unhealthy foundation. I fell madly in love with her before I knew she had to be rescued. And then when I saw her drowning, I was already madly in love and I jumped into the water to keep her safe. That is just not how relationships ought to go.

I want to focus on me. Just me. I work out 5 times a week because she dashed my self esteem to pieces, from being the most handsome person she has ever seen to nothing. So I go to the gym, get the muscles going, and in the meantime try to find out why I (still) feel attracted to someone who has hurt me so so bad and is emotionally unstable.

[Curiously1]

TheRose, you sound like you are on the right track! Working out 5 weeks is a healthy goal to set for yourself. I am doing similar for myself and the rush of endorphins and gains you get are great!

Your ex sounds like she is at least taking the initial steps in understanding herself and as to why she is behaving the way she does through searching online and reading books and what she thinks relates to her. Not knowing what she is up to now, we hope that she still cares to continue finding a way to better herself even if it means to do so on her own.

You made plenty of effort to encourage her to go to therapy and to understand and stick with her during those rocky times before the breakup occured. A relationship takes two and you did your best to try and soothe her of her insecurities and lessen the push and pull cycle knowing that it was a problem of hers before you got together. You are right that we cannot save a person and solve relationship issues as a whole on our own, as much as it feels compelling to do so  having those caregiving/rescuer traits myself. You can only put your best foot forward, and hope the other person does the same for themselves. It was never your task and not your fault that you could not  'break' the cycle. You can only try to make things better for the both of you when those occurred from how you handled yourself. She also did try to the best of her ability it seemed for constantly apologising after the fact, but seemed to have trouble showing her vulnerability/sensitive side to you in person but then decided she did not want to continue the relationship based on what she thinks is right for her.

There are people we madly fall in love with for sure and that is okay but it is also good to know how well the relationship really worked as a whole for us. We need to remember what we have control over (our own actions), and not get carried away by our own emotions, attraction and attachment to them. We need to also know what to do with ourselves when situations are out of our control and not going so well (the way she decides to handle things on her end) and the best and healthiest ways to respond to that. I can say the same for me where I would more than happily continue to give my exBPDgf a chance after chance as long as she was willing and had the ability/attempt to work on things together and put some effort so I don't think your thoughts on putting up with her again if  she came back is too much of a concern. I think it's normal to have those what if thoughts of having a happily ever after with her but not get carried away by them if you have truly decided that staying NC is the better option for you.

I think that together is one of the most crucial words to hone into right now. You did wanted to work things out together with her and she was unable to do that based on her own insecurities, guilt and shame. You are right that you should not put up with someone that is making you unhappy and unwilling to continue working on the relationship. Through time and reflection during NC you can clarify to yourself the type of relationship that you really want.

As to why you still feel attracted to someone and miss someone who has hurt you, the answer I found for myself is the amount of love I have for my BPD, my empathy towards others pain, my impulse to rescue as a backdoor way of meeting my own needs and a matter of cognitive dissonance I had to sort through and make sense of with what  had occurred, and wanting a sense of control over myself which felt like it was dependent on her especially when just breaking up. Some people also develop or have symptoms of stockholm syndrome. I think I had few symptoms of that too in regards to needing her approval at times and for selt-soothing the times she acted mean, cold or was deliberately 'punishing' me as means to control me or doubt my own train of thought. It was her way or the highway. I felt like what I had with her was "trauma bonding" and another factor as to why I felt I could not leave a codependent relationship and too afraid of what it would mean for myself to leave her as I was to focused as well if she could ever cope with herself without me.

If you experienced similar issues like that too, those can also be worked on and reflected on too especially whilst staying NC. It is okay to reflect on what you thought were areas you needed more improvement in while looking at the past. But know that this is just all a learning experience and the fact that you are aware of your current issues is something to be proud of because you now have the ability to change the things about yourself you think would improve the quality of your life and then apply what you have gained in yourself to your next relationship. Dettaching is a process and you have to be patient with yourself while you are recovering. Surround yourself with supportive people and continue to gain the knowledge and advice you need to take forward steps in taking back self-esteem and being happier and healthier again.

[Curiously1]

She talked about her ex being a rescuer. And I always felt like she said that to talk me into the role of being a caregiver. The strange thing is though, she painted ALL her exes black. Every single one of them. Except her last ex (the one who left her). That one is completely white. I never quite understood that. Not one bad word about her last ex.

I don't know, It's hard to say she did the right thing in pushing me away. I'd rather have her be in therapy and then work things out together. However, I have to say that I am not looking or trying to get her back. That's why I'm doing no contact. 

In regards to exes, I would not worry about her past relationships with them. The common thread is that they all did not work out whether they stayed painted black or were still white after the break up. Don't know the complete story behind it but my guess is that the one who is still painted white is someone who either left the relationship early or got away before any devaluation had happened or still fits her current needs. A person who is painted white of course has more chances of a recycle if they choose to accept it if she ever reaches out or if they reach out themselves. The ones who are painted completely black are of course painted that way because of the amount of pain/injury caused to your BPDexgf... real or imagined and her perception of them. At least currently they are a threat or not longer good and valuable to her survival or wellbeing. You don't appear to be an ex that is painted black either but looks as though she is experiencing a lot of shame, guilt pain that she would rather work through on her own. Although you really wanted her to stick to trying T whilst staying with you, it's good to know you are not chasing after her. I think you did your absolute best

[TheRose]

Yes, working out truly is great! Glad to hear you are doing it too. To be really honest, right now it is the only thing I can really enjoy these days.
People seem to keep telling me that to get over my ex, I need to start going on dates. But no one really understands how I cannot think of even kissing anyone else but my ex. I just can't, it makes me feel sick. So I go to work, drive home and then I rush to the gym.

How long has it been since you and your ex broke up? You seem to have a lot of insight as to what kept you in this relationship and what you need to stay in a healthy relationship.

I agree with you that I'm not sure if she really painted me black. I feel like she painted herself black more than anything and then pulled back. But I might be wrong. In our break up conversation she actually said that I did very well all throughout the relationship to the very last day of us.

I recognize the trauma bonding you are talking about. It is very interesting to see how that develops. Did you manage to work that out for yourself?

Detaching is hard on me right now. I keep thinking of all the good times we shared. The bad times seem to fade... .and I'm not sure I want that to happen. Because the more I remember the good times, the more I miss her. It seems like it was only yesterday. Yet she feels so far away and distant. She literally treated me like I was gold. She spent all her money on me. Took me to Italy 3 weeks before the breakup. Gave me a golden necklace and cooked my meals, just everything. She took good care of me even to the last day of our relationship. It's all so confusing. I remember her raging and yelling at me, so so angry, but I wasn't feeling well... .So I said "I'm dizzy... ." BAM. The raging immediately stopped and she flipped to taking really REALLY good care of me as if the raging never happened. I thought that was weird. Because after I felt better she never got back to explaining her anger and she acted as if the raging never happened.
But mind you, towards the end of our relationship I could get her to rage at me by just looking at her the wrong way. Instantly. Like dynamite.

Thank you so much for writing. It truly is helpful to read your story and receive insight through that. I appreciate you taking the time to communicate. Thank you.

Time to hit the gym

[Curiously1]

Yes, working out truly is great! Glad to hear you are doing it too. To be really honest, right now it is the only thing I can really enjoy these days.
People seem to keep telling me that to get over my ex, I need to start going on dates. But no one really understands how I cannot think of even kissing anyone else but my ex. I just can't, it makes me feel sick. So I go to work, drive home and then I rush to the gym.

I feel the exact same way. I remember times I over dramatically thought that gym is my only source of happiness (boohoo) and was so disappointed if I had to skip due to something out of my control like a whole city power cut

Your friends just sound like they want you to cheer up and be happy again. Not everyone understands the damage of what a BPD relationship can especially cause for us and it is ok to feel that you are not ready to give dating a try just yet. In fact it's wise anyway to focus on yourself more so you have more of an idea of what you want and that your relationships will more than likely be better and improve in the future. I knew I couldn't date others only weeks after my break up. For me it felt like that was just like stating that my relationship with her did not matter at all to me and that I did not truly love her if I were to 'replace' her with somebody else all of a sudden. My devotion to her was still there even we split and yes I think it is pretty normal and as well as a good idea to not want to date anyone for a period of time until you feel you are ready.

How long has it been since you and your ex broke up? You seem to have a lot of insight as to what kept you in this relationship and what you need to stay in a healthy relationship.

Thank you I'd like to say that this forum has helped a lot with developing more insight as to what kept me in the relationship and dettaching. YouTube channels, reading online articles, books as well as the ongoing support of friends and family and my therapist - which I haven't seen since my second break up were also really beneficial to my healing. I can share a list of YouTube channels with you if you like? It has been 4 months since our second major break up. I like to count our first major break up too because when we did get back together, our relationship only lasted 2 or less weeks and I was still shattered and grieving all the crap she did to me lasr time while with her. If I count the entirety of it all I've been recovering for 8 months now. I am at a stage where I am rarely feeling bitter/angry or even reminded of my ex or her friend/replacement (which did not work out anyway) as I know now that I am more responsible for my own emotions and self-worth which should not have been tied into how she treated me. My mind is not racing like it used to trying to understand her and every little detail of what she says, does and reacted... .She is no longer constantly at the forefront of my thoughts so that helps with focusing on myself and using my energy and time to do other stuff in my life.

I agree with you that I'm not sure if she really painted me black. I feel like she painted herself black more than anything and then pulled back. But I might be wrong. In our break up conversation she actually said that I did very well all throughout the relationship to the very last day of us.

You did sound like you handled yourself well in that relationship. She does not appear to hate you so I wouldn't say she has painted you black.

I recognize the trauma bonding you are talking about. It is very interesting to see how that develops. Did you manage to work that out for yourself?

Yeah. I have had similar relationship dynamics with an ex best friend years and years ago. Knowing about my FOO dynamics, I was conditioned I think as a child to put the needs of others before mine and I got plenty of reward for doing that so I kept on having those one-sided relationships with others outside of family basically playing amateur counsellor/psychologist or a person they have based on some need. Putting others needs before my own  at times resulted in not knowing what my true needs really were and handing over control because in my mind at the time their happiness = my happiness, and perhaps a part of my survival subconsciously. Being a caregiver truly defined me and didn't know how else to act/relate to others apart from that role... and so I became a perfect fit for codependent relationships. As long as they are satisfied, I feel like I am and so if they react badly, I would blame myself and continue to compromise to maintain their positive emotions even if they were being unfair as I felt I could handle things/emotional stronger or whatever reason. I may protest that it is unfair, but eventually give in because I felt I needed them just as much, if not more so for feeling like I mattered. That has been my issue for a long time and now recognise as something that must change. People don't change or miracally quit being abusive from the amount of effort you do to show you love and care for them or how 'kind' you are to them. And yes not to lean too much on others to feel like a good person or for that reassurance or 'reward' that I am on the right track. I cannot live through others like that anymore.

Detaching is hard on me right now. I keep thinking of all the good times we shared. The bad times seem to fade... .and I'm not sure I want that to happen. Because the more I remember the good times, the more I miss her. It seems like it was only yesterday.

Earlier on my first major break up, my ex said that she felt like was not good enough for me and that I caused the distance in our relationship. She is not completely wrong but what I did was write a letter to her sharing about all the positive memories we shared that was important to me. I did not have to send it but I felt like she needed reassurance. She never commented on it. I told myself that it was mostly for me and as a way of proving that I did care and appreciate her even though I did make some mistakes too and no matter how much she felt I 'destroyed' her. I think I was also afraid that during dettachment all those happy moments I would block out eventually or that they of course eventually would fade in time and become less important to remember just the same as the with the fond memories I had with my NPD best friend years ago that I blocked out. I was afraid of that. Having something not resolved with someone I loved and having to block them out eventually and go into the 'nothing' box too. I mentioned that I did not want to forget our special happier moments in the letter and that I was very happy to be with her too and keep record of it. I too thought mostly and greatly about the good when we just broke up and even confused that she was possibly right that it was all my fault (which it was not). I am a very optimistic in general and always try to see the good in everything and so it's pretty easy for me to forgive as well compared to forgiving myself. Overtime it was easier to focus more on the relationship in totality/as a whole and that meant remembering the not so good parts too and not to blame myself entirely.

Yet she feels so far away and distant. She literally treated me like I was gold. She spent all her money on me. Took me to Italy 3 weeks before the breakup. Gave me a golden necklace and cooked my meals, just everything. She took good care of me even to the last day of our relationship. It's all so confusing. I remember her raging and yelling at me, so so angry, but I wasn't feeling well... .So I said "I'm dizzy... ." BAM. The raging immediately stopped and she flipped to taking really REALLY good care of me as if the raging never happened. I thought that was weird. Because after I felt better she never got back to explaining her anger and she acted as if the raging never happened.
But mind you, towards the end of our relationship I could get her to rage at me by just looking at her the wrong way. Instantly. Like dynamite.

Thank you so much for writing. It truly is helpful to read your story and receive insight through that. I appreciate you taking the time to communicate. Thank you.

Time to hit the gym

I am sure you know you are gold but it's always nice to have someone pamper you!
Is okay someday you'll find someone who treats you like royalty again and won't make you feel like sh*t by raging at you at the drop of a hat. I can relate that my ex paid for most thing too and it was a lot of fun being with her and of course going to miss all the fun adventures with her too.

And no problem. I am happy to share

[TheRose]

Yes, amazing how it helps to know that there are others who truly understand. I do think the dynamics in a relationship with someone who has BPD can be very different from other relationships, as there is no such thing as closure.

Okay, I don't know how to quote so forgive me for replying without quoting.

I feel the same now, as if I'm still devoted and faithful and true to my love for her. It would actually feel like cheating if I found someone else. Which of course it's not. She must have slept around like crazy these past few weeks. I'm sad to say that that's what she does, unfortunately.

Yes please, those YouTube Channels might be helpful. I bought a book about borderline relationships and it gave me a lot of insight too. Scary to read how accurate that book and everything I read about BPD describes my r/s with my ex. Scary and sad.
You had 2 break ups, wow, that must have been really painful. Did you try to get her back the first time or did she chase you?
I can't imagine what it must be like to be where you are right now, after 8 months. It seems like a better place. As if it truly gets better. That sounds hopeful. I hope I can feel the same in a few months from now. Because like you experienced before, I find myself analyzing every little things she said/wrote or did. From the beginning to the end. I am trying to understand her behaviour. And I'm thrown from sadness to hope and back. When I get home from work, I check all the parked cars, hoping hers is among those cars. But then I feel ashamed of thinking stupid things like that. I mean, she broke up, duh... .I bet I'm not on her mind at all. And then I think about how close we were and then I feel like she probably misses me. Stupid. So then I remind myself that it is not about HER anymore. It's not about if she thinks of me or not. It's not about if she misses me too or not. This is all about ME trying to get myself to the point where I can be happy with who I am. Regardless of my relationship status.

I had to google FOO dynamics, English is not my native language, but Google came up with something that has to do with Microsoft. Bet that is not what you were talking about
I do recognize a lot in your story. Putting others needs before your own and getting rewarded for doing that. Their happiness = your happiness. I recognize that. I am trying to break that pattern. I need to learn to take a healthy dose of selfish every morning when I'm in a relationship.

Did it hurt when she didn't respond to your letter? I remember sending my ex a text message after we broke up. I told her I know I did things wrong and that I know what I needed to fix about myself. I said sorry for the part I was responsible for. Because in all honesty, I can't truly blame her BPD a 100%.
I thanked her for all the good times we shared, the love she poured out on me and I told her that I don't blame her at all (since she said she is to be punished for all the tears she caused me). I wanted to release her and release myself by sending that. She read it and never commented. It was my goodbye. And after that message I vanished from the planet. Unfortunately, that is what I do. I pull back completely after a break up and disappear off their radar. I do it to protect myself from getting hurt again. It's a coping mechanism. I can't even look at her picture without feeling nauseous. So, yeah. I figure that if she ever feels a need to get in touch with me, she would surely figure out how to. But she hasn't. And I doubt she ever will.

Do you feel like you are ready to be in a r/s again? And do you feel like you are going to fall madly in love again? Right now I'm in love with the gym.

[Curiously1]

Yes, amazing how it helps to know that there are others who truly understand. I do think the dynamics in a relationship with someone who has BPD can be very different from other relationships, as there is no such thing as closure.

Hahaha I know! and I haven't had a 'normal' romantic relationship before sadly. Although looking forward to seeing how different it is going to be when I meet a healthy non. And yeah, you really don't get closure most of the time. What do you mean by closure by the way? What would you describe as getting closure from someone? (I haven't experienced it). The closure part didn't bother me as much as the very very first time I dealt with a person with PD traits who did not give me 'closure'. And from that I did learn that you don't really need closure from somebody, you can find your own... understanding yourself as well as accepting it really is the end if the other person is unwilling or wanting to stay and work on things.

Okay, I don't know how to quote so forgive me for replying without quoting.

I feel the same now, as if I'm still devoted and faithful and true to my love for her. It would actually feel like cheating if I found someone else. Which of course it's not. She must have slept around like crazy these past few weeks. I'm sad to say that that's what she does, unfortunately.

On the top right of someone's post there is a little button named "quotes" on the left of 'modify'. Click on that and then you can quote the whole post or sections of it. You'll eventually figure it out

I remember my ex telling me she would consider me in the future because clearly I will not change in a week's/months time and that I have been bad   Whether she still feels that way or not or ever needs me again I did cling onto that as a bit of hope she will come back and regret or see the light once when she continues to f**cked up and realise she has a problem. Currently I feel like I am one of the best to make things work out with her despite the fact that I am moving on. Yep I have a bit of an ego too thinking I am the best there is for her - at least at the moment. I was her longest relationship so far so I guess that in a way and knowing the person I am makes me feel like I can handle her more than most and willing to if she wanted to change... if she really could. I know it doesn't work that way though and it can take years and years and therapy does not even guarantee much stability. Not sure what I'd do if she reappeared soon or next year or years after. All I know is that if she came back now I have no problem ignoring her. I am pretty much done and over her now but the fact that I am still single makes it tempting to think about what she'll be like in x amount of years time and if we are both single then. It is more like I am still curious about what kind of people we will be then, if we even care (I won't reach out anyway cos I don't plan to) but if she cared to reach out, if I would still be curious to see what she is up to then.  And yeah, just me as the person I am, I cannot easily replace a person that I love and grieved our loss out of respect  and that she mattered that much to me. My ex on the other hand, before recycling me and dumping my replacement and re-friendzoning her, rushed onto dating sites went on a few of them, and had a couple of one night stands that she told me about to then eventually come back to me sobbing that she feels disposable and used and of course missed having love and stability in her life.

Yes please, those YouTube Channels might be helpful. I bought a book about borderline relationships and it gave me a lot of insight too. Scary to read how accurate that book and everything I read about BPD describes my r/s with my ex. Scary and sad.

I will look for them and personal message (PM) them to you shortly

You had 2 break ups, wow, that must have been really painful. Did you try to get her back the first time or did she chase you?
I can't imagine what it must be like to be where you are right now, after 8 months. It seems like a better place. As if it truly gets better. That sounds hopeful. I hope I can feel the same in a few months from now. Because like you experienced before, I find myself analyzing every little things she said/wrote or did. From the beginning to the end. I am trying to understand her behaviour. And I'm thrown from sadness to hope and back. When I get home from work, I check all the parked cars, hoping hers is among those cars. But then I feel ashamed of thinking stupid things like that. I mean, she broke up, duh... .I bet I'm not on her mind at all. And then I think about how close we were and then I feel like she probably misses me. Stupid. So then I remind myself that it is not about HER anymore. It's not about if she thinks of me or not. It's not about if she misses me too or not. This is all about ME trying to get myself to the point where I can be happy with who I am. Regardless of my relationship status.

Trust me it gets easier and better the longer you stay NC. I know it's difficult to imagine while you are in a lot of pain right now but it does.   Enjoy being on your own, appreciate the ones who have been supporting you this entire time and yeah stay open to your friends/family so they can also cheer you up, support you and remind you of how great you are. I find that journalling how you feel each day helps too if that is your thing. I like to look back at my old posts on here too, just reminding myself of where my train of thought was like months and months before compared to now and how much better I feel now. No more of that sinking painful stabbing heart feeling I used to have daily. I used to also sing until I felt better. Not randomly singing, more like, opening up a YouTube lyric video and singing along etc. until I was in a happier mood.

I considered friendship with her because a part of me really did know it was impossible to reason with her on the matter of compromising and working as a team. She was always right and I was always wrong if I was not agreeing on her side of things. Because I still had some attachment to her back then and missed her too much I couldn't imagine NOT having her in my life I thought, fine I will try having a friendship. Truth is, I wanted more. The week we reunited, we ended up having a trial together at a gym near her place and started exercising together as well as went out clubbing and so on. Shortly after the week ended I reconsidered the friendship because I didn't really want it, was still pi**ed that she was still friends with the replacement now friend again and dropped off the face of the earth as I could not handle seeing all of that or hearing that they spend 1:1 time together too. Had opened up my own wounds and that she did not care about me to let the other one go. So when I disappeared, that triggered her and then she came and chased me and told me that she had been having a lot of fun positive interactions with me that week and that she wants to get back together. She even reassured me that whilst she was trying to be with her friend that fancy her it didn't feel right and she was not over me. However, I will never forget how she worded it. She expressed it like, 'I've noticed you changed for the better as we have not been fighting at all this week and been very happy... I want you back because you are the best candidate there is in this ****hole of a town and well... I missssss you so much." It's like, wow, so you only want me back, not for me but because I successfully made you feel great the whole week (not mentioning anything from the past that we needed to work on) and that is what makes me the best 'candidate' for her. What an honour (sarcasm). I took it anyway. I knew she was mentally ill and still had hope of fixing things and convincing her of therapy whilst I was on her good side.

I totally get that. Whenever there is a similar car driving past of my exes, I think of her. Even with people. Everyone who has a similar hairstyle of hers and blonde, I would think of her again. There were times I thought I bumped into her but I think it was my mind playing tricks because I missed her so much. Used to always check up on her social media too. I analysed so much until I got sick of the minor details of everything that was said and done so maybe what you are doing is good for now. You need to still make sense of it in your mind, even the little details. But yes, try as much as possible to focus on the bigger picture which is you. One advice my therapist gave me before I stopped seeing her was that it's ok to think about your ex but giving it a time frame. Like I will allow myself to think/be sad about ex for an hour and then I will try and move on and do something else for myself. It is hard at first, I didn't always follow of it course but when I did I felt like I was taking care of myself a lot more too. It might be another way to not put too much mental energy on a person who is no longer a part of your life, benefits your life, and yea just must try not to focus her.

I had to google FOO dynamics, English is not my native language, but Google came up with something that has to do with Microsoft. Bet that is not what you were talking about
I do recognize a lot in your story. Putting others needs before your own and getting rewarded for doing that. Their happiness = your happiness. I recognize that. I am trying to break that pattern. I need to learn to take a healthy dose of selfish every morning when I'm in a relationship.

Ah sorry. I didn't know either actually when I first came here. It is 'family of origin.'
Yep the dose of selfishness we need to take is not nearly enough to be described as selfish!
Yep we must break the pattern of codependency and putting others needs in favour of our own. No more rescuing! Do you know why you felt the need to rescue somebody?

Did it hurt when she didn't respond to your letter? I remember sending my ex a text message after we broke up. I told her I know I did things wrong and that I know what I needed to fix about myself. I said sorry for the part I was responsible for. Because in all honesty, I can't truly blame her BPD a 100%.
I thanked her for all the good times we shared, the love she poured out on me and I told her that I don't blame her at all (since she said she is to be punished for all the tears she caused me). I wanted to release her and release myself by sending that. She read it and never commented. It was my goodbye. And after that message I vanished from the planet.

Yeah they are not 100% horrible people and must not blame, however they still no right from wrong and must really try to work on themselves as well. No more always trying to understand their side and letting people get away with treating us badly because of their illness. Much like nons, they too need to face fair consequences for their actions. I can't remember exactly what happened because I wrote to her a lot over the course of our relationship. Sometimes she responds to them, sometimes not. I kept writing them because I knew she used to like it and felt reassured and loved by it in the past. On the flip side she finds me very manipulative and she has told me that sometimes she feels like I am just full of s***t and to wants to just reel her in. Depends on how she feels I guess. If she is silent I assume she no longer cares or is dissociating or cannot handle it. I recall her telling me once that it at times gives her anxiety and she will simply not read it. I took stuff she said personally some of the time liek if she said that I do not care about her. I would prove that I wasn't and eventually it would settle more times than not. Chasing her excessively worked for a time to make her feel great. Not chasing her worked too to break the silent treatment if she were to do that but made her more insecure I think.

Good that you said sorry for what you are responsible for. Was that like a weight lifted from your shoulder? It certainly was for me. Sadness comes in sometimes when they do not respond, but does at least expressing your side of things make you feel better? or would you have preffered she respond if she could?

Unfortunately, that is what I do. I pull back completely after a break up and disappear off their radar. I do it to protect myself from getting hurt again. It's a coping mechanism. I can't even look at her picture without feeling nauseous. So, yeah. I figure that if she ever feels a need to get in touch with me, she would surely figure out how to. But she hasn't. And I doubt she ever will.

I think it is best to go NC anyway. You don't want to know what your ex gets up to, because it may hurt you. Not all but plenty of pwBPD move on fast after a relationship is over and yeah it is just better to completely cut off and heal because staying on the radar, keeping in touch, you may read or see things that can hinder your healing and recovery. NC helps with self preservation. She may or may not contact you again and they can at anytime out of the blue. How prepared do you feel if she did contact you?

Do you feel like you are ready to be in a r/s again? And do you feel like you are going to fall madly in love again? Right now I'm in love with the gym.

I've been on a couple of casual dates just for fun. Nobody I really click with yet. Currently I am not thinking of a serious r/s but if the opportunity presents itself and I feel that it is right to give it a try then I do think I have the courage to give it a chance. All I am focusing on right now is getting to know new people and being very casual. I was like that before anyway. As for falling madly in love? the love at first sight kind? Ahhh I'd be wary cos everytime I have, it was with a person with a PD thus far. So whenever I feel this excitement or whatever, I take a step back. I don't want to think everybody I will ever meet and is interested in me will be 'bad news' but I will definitely work on myself and my boundaries and take things slower while getting to know someone. I'm inlove and committed to gym too!  haha

[TheRose]

Hahaha I know! and I haven't had a 'normal' romantic relationship before sadly. Although looking forward to seeing how different it is going to be when I meet a healthy non. And yeah, you really don't get closure most of the time. What do you mean by closure by the way? What would you describe as getting closure from someone?

Well by closure I guess I mean breaking up "normally". Like the day we broke up, we sat down in a coffee shop and started talking, that's when she broke up. Our conversation only lasted half an hour and it was sudden. She seemed cold and insensitive, said "goodbye" and that was that. We never really talked things through. I feel like I didn't get closure because of the way we both went cold turkey and took ourselves off the radar. We didn't talk things through. And I guess right now I feel like I needed her to say goodbye in a decent way as well. But she didn't. By sending that text message, I tried to find closure. I wanted to release her. And in hindsight, by not responding, she made me feel awkward, because I don't know if it made her sad. Or angry. Or indifferent. Or if she thought it was ridiculous. But I need to let that go. I am happy I sent it, I did it for myself, I guess. I hope. 

I remember my ex telling me she would consider me in the future because clearly I will not change in a week's/months time and that I have been bad   Whether she still feels that way or not or ever needs me again I did cling onto that as a bit of hope she will come back and regret or see the light once when she continues to f**cked up and realise she has a problem... .All I know is that if she came back now I have no problem ignoring her. I am pretty much done and over her now but the fact that I am still single makes it tempting to think about what she'll be like in x amount of years time and if we are both single then.

I totally get that. It's as if she puts you on hold. Or keeps you in a waiting room. I would feel the same way and have some sort of hope. Actually some days I do have hope, but I have no reason to have hope. I guess it's all part of the process. Maybe the only reason why I do have hope is because she recycled every single one of her exes. But then again, I know that not a single ex disappeared off her radar, they all kept talking to her after she broke up with them. And I didn't. So it must be different for her this time.

Trust me it gets easier and better the longer you stay NC. I know it's difficult to imagine while you are in a lot of pain right now but it does.   Enjoy being on your own, appreciate the ones who have been supporting you this entire time and yeah stay open to your friends/family so they can also cheer you up, support you and remind you of how great you are. I find that journalling how you feel each day helps too if that is your thing... .I used to also sing until I felt better. Not randomly singing, more like, opening up a YouTube lyric video and singing along etc. until I was in a happier mood.

Singing does do miracles! I do it too. And I have been in musical therapy for a while. Playing the piano at my therapist and then at home I play the guitar. Love doing that. I do need to be careful at times because I can get carried away easily, I just loove sad and heavy emotional music. Always have. So sometimes I really need to turn on happy music

So when I disappeared, that triggered her and then she came and chased me and told me that she had been having a lot of fun positive interactions with me that week and that she wants to get back together. She even reassured me that whilst she was trying to be with her friend that fancy her it didn't feel right and she was not over me. However, I will never forget how she worded it. She expressed it like, 'I've noticed you changed for the better as we have not been fighting at all this week and been very happy... I want you back because you are the best candidate there is in this ****hole of a town and well... I missssss you so much." It's like, wow, so you only want me back, not for me but because I successfully made you feel great the whole week (not mentioning anything from the past that we needed to work on) and that is what makes me the best 'candidate' for her. What an honour (sarcasm). I took it anyway. I knew she was mentally ill and still had hope of fixing things and convincing her of therapy whilst I was on her good side.

Wow, that truly is quite a push and pull dynamics. It's so weird how when you leave they chase you sometimes. Because their fear of abandonment is triggered. And when you chase them, their fear of intimacy is triggered. It's so hard and almost sounds impossible to be in a healthy relationship with someone who has BPD. It's all about their emotions all the time. And you have to focus on what they feel, think or need all the time. But that only makes it worse. I found that the more I put up with her behaviour the more she got angry.

Everyone who has a similar hairstyle of hers and blonde, I would think of her again.

Yes! I experience the same thing, almost every day. I hate it. I hear songs, they remind me of her. I go to the grocery store and food products remind me of her. I smell perfume, it reminds me of her. Just about everything.

Do you know why you felt the need to rescue somebody?

Honestly? I have no idea. I know people usually refer to parents and family... .But I can't find anything or think of anything my parents did or didn't do that made me feel like I need to rescue my love partners. I do remember the first time I felt the need to be a hero, and it was when I was eleven. My dad got very sick and nearly died. He was rushed to the hospital and I remember feeling as if I couldn't be a child anymore, I thought "This is it. I'm a big girl now." And from that moment, everything changed. That was the first time I thought: My feelings don't count, because my dad is dying right here in front of me.

Good that you said sorry for what you are responsible for. Was that like a weight lifted from your shoulder? It certainly was for me. Sadness comes in sometimes when they do not respond, but does at least expressing your side of things make you feel better? or would you have preffered she respond if she could?

When I sent her the text it did feel like a weight lifted from my shoulder. But I also felt insecure the moment I realized she was never going to respond to that text. Because it made me wonder if she was sad to read my goodbye. Or maybe just indifferent. Or if she was angry. I never really know, because like I said, I don't know how many times she lashed out because of me using a certain word or phrase, I really didn't have to do anything to get her to rage and rage and rage at me. So maybe my last text got her angry. I think I wanted her to reply. Even if she had to reply with anger.

She may or may not contact you again and they can at anytime out of the blue. How prepared do you feel if she did contact you?

Well, there are days when I feel super strong and able to respond healthy and calm. But in all honesty, if she contacted me today, every tiny, little cell in my body would jump up and down. Even if she contacted me to rage. I think the whole no contact situation is a bit hard on me right now. But then again, I know reaching out to her is going to be even harder on me, more painful. And I absolutely don't feel the need to talk to her. If she told me she missed me, I'd be super weak and take her back, yes. So it's probably in my best interest that she stays where she's at. I can't handle two break ups like you experienced. That is so painful.

I've been on a couple of casual dates just for fun. Nobody I really click with yet. Currently I am not thinking of a serious r/s but if the opportunity presents itself and I feel that it is right to give it a try then I do think I have the courage to give it a chance.

I am so glad to hear you are going out on dates! And I'm glad to hear you didn't give up on love either. I think I kind of gave up after this last break up. I do get attention from other women, and I'm not insecure about my appearance or anything, but I wonder if I can ever make a r/s work. I like myself better when I'm not in a relationship. I seem to lose myself whenever I step into a serious relationship. And now that I'm single, I feel confident, pretty, attractive and fun to be with. But that might be my insanely high level of endorphine speaking.
Because yesterday I felt super ugly and unattractive, my self esteem dropped below sea level

You have given me a lot of insight already! You are awesome!

[lovenature]

PWBPD make up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment; while it is pretty self aware I would say from your list, you may have noticed she didn't commit to therapy to help herself and show you progress in your relationship.

Physical exercise is good, helps to see things clearer.

Always go by reality; how many times did words match actions to build trust? How much pain did you endure compared to the good times?

[TheRose]

PWBPD make up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment; while it is pretty self aware I would say from your list, you may have noticed she didn't commit to therapy to help herself and show you progress in your relationship.

Physical exercise is good, helps to see things clearer.

Always go by reality; how many times did words match actions to build trust? How much pain did you endure compared to the good times?

Yes, true. Her words definitely matched her actions in the beginning. However, she promised she would NEVER leave me. She said that she would ALWAYS be careful not to hurt me. I guess those are two promises she broke.
The pain was intense, she hurt me like no one else before. I dream about her every single night. And then I wake up in the morning and my heart is so heavy. There are days I wished I had her around, even if she would just yell at me or be angry, I don't care. I miss her. With each day passing by, I wonder how it is that she can just discard me like broken glass and never EVER EVER look back again. It's not a good day. Tomorrow will be better, it has to be.

The only thing I can be proud of, is how today marks a month of full NC. I bet she expected me to chase her, instead I'm just letting her run wild.

[lovenature]

I wonder how it is that she can just discard me like broken glass and never EVER EVER look back again.

She does this by making up her own reality to fit her emotion of the moment; if she decides (in her reality) that you hurt her too much (got too close and triggered her fear of engulfment most likely), she will paint you black enough to throw you away like trash (sorry, I know it really hurts!).

Don't count on her never EVER looking back; PWBPD hate to loose an attachment, many members have gotten contact attempts a long time after they were discarded or forced to go NC, sometimes many years later.

[TheRose]

She does this by making up her own reality to fit her emotion of the moment; if she decides (in her reality) that you hurt her too much (got too close and triggered her fear of engulfment most likely), she will paint you black enough to throw you away like trash (sorry, I know it really hurts!).

Don't count on her never EVER looking back; PWBPD hate to loose an attachment, many members have gotten contact attempts a long time after they were discarded or forced to go NC, sometimes many years later.

I guess this is true. And yes, it hurts to be discarded like this. But I just realized that you can never obtain the level of intimacy you need in a relationship with a pwBPD.
And you can never obtain the level of freedom you need in a relationship with a pwBPD.
It is just impossible.

[once removed]

hi TheRose,

these do sound like moments of keen self awareness, but what jumps out at me is that collectively and individually, they are clear statements of emotional unavailability. im curious how you responded to those sorts of statements at the time.

[TheRose]

hi TheRose,

these do sound like moments of keen self awareness, but what jumps out at me is that collectively and individually, they are clear statements of emotional unavailability. im curious how you responded to those sorts of statements at the time.

In the beginning I used to respond with a huge amount of patience and love. Of course all these statements followed right after every severe anger outbursts. Which was pretty much all the time. I'd tell her not to worry and I reassured her that it was okay and that I was okay. I said I could handle it. But of course I couldn't... .in reality I just couldn't. She was really harsh. But she kept apologizing and feeling guilty. Towards the end of our relationship I told her to stop apologizing, because I didn't want to hear it anymore. There is something about "I'm so sorry" that doesn't seem to work when you have heard it 2 million times.
I asked her if she could forgive herself. Of course that didn't help. She felt way too empty, lonely, depressed and kept saying how everyone wanted to have sex with her. I asked her to find a T. Not too long after that, she abandoned me.