intro, wife with likely BPD

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I found this site a few weeks ago. It has a lot of good information on it, largely because people have taken the time to share their stories. It's not easy, but for this reason I also want to share mine.

My wife and I have been married about five years. We were both successful working professionals with advanced degrees. She left her job (by choice) shortly before becoming pregnant with our now two year old child. Our relationship has become progressively difficult since the birth of our child with her emotional outbursts becoming increasingly common and over the past 18 months her behavior can now clearly be defined as having elements of verbal abuse and occasional physical confrontation (slapping, pushing, scratching and even spitting). There are days and weeks when everything seems normal, but this is less frequent now. From the outside and around friends and family, everything appears mostly normal. There are legitimate stressors (new child and new mother, loss of professional identity and others), but I can't find anything that would excuse the abuse (although in her mind I have caused everything). We don't have any legal or financial strains that should make our lives as difficult as they seem.

I was very confused by the changes and couldn't make sense of what was happening. For a long time assumed I was just doing everything wrong. I then suspected there was clinical depression (which may be partially true). I started reading more, started recognizing inconsistencies, distortions and what I now know are gaslighting behaviors.  I informally (and discreetly) met with a counselor who thought her behaviors sounded like BPD (I have self diagnosed myself with a people pleasing personality as well). I've read many articles about BPD recently and the behavior patterns make sense now.

At the beginning of this year I realized this relationship was quickly moving in the wrong direction, and I wanted one more year to see if it would improve. I don't want our child to see their father exposed to this environment... .or at least see me tolerating it. My wife has met with a counselor at my insistence, but the behavior has not changed (and I don't know what has been discussed). Fortunately most of the behavior does not happen around our child, but that is starting to change.

I have a great deal of patience, and can tolerate a lot of this behavior without losing my temper. At first I thought I was showing restraint by taking all of this and trying to understand what she is feeling, now I realize I am also enabling it. I also reasoned initially that I could be a lightning rod to make sure this is not directed at our child, but growing up in a home like this could be equally damaging. If a child was not involved, this would be an easy decision to make.

I've briefly met with a family law attorney to understand my situation as a father. I'm trying to gather as much information as possible so I can make some decisions in the next few months.

What I struggle with:
1. How do you know when it is time to say enough and end the relationship?
2. What is the best thing I can do for our child? Continue to endure or risk losing daily involvement in their life to create a different and healthier alternative for you and them?
3. How long do you give counseling to work, or when it is clear it won't work?
4. How do you cope with the occasional guilt that something about you did trigger this? After all she seemed to be quite successful when we met. There are two people in a relationship, and for better or worse each feeds off the other.

Thank for your reading. There is a lot more I could say, but I think this explains where I am at right now.

[lpheal]

I found this site a few weeks ago. It has a lot of good information on it, largely because people have taken the time to share their stories. It's not easy, but for this reason I also want to share mine.

My wife and I have been married about five years. We were both successful working professionals with advanced degrees. She left her job (by choice) shortly before becoming pregnant with our now two year old child. Our relationship has become progressively difficult since the birth of our child with her emotional outbursts becoming increasingly common and over the past 18 months her behavior can now clearly be defined as having elements of verbal abuse and occasional physical confrontation (slapping, pushing, scratching and even spitting). There are days and weeks when everything seems normal, but this is less frequent now. From the outside and around friends and family, everything appears mostly normal. There are legitimate stressors (new child and new mother, loss of professional identity and others), but I can't find anything that would excuse the abuse (although in her mind I have caused everything). We don't have any legal or financial strains that should make our lives as difficult as they seem.

I was very confused by the changes and couldn't make sense of what was happening. For a long time assumed I was just doing everything wrong. I then suspected there was clinical depression (which may be partially true). I started reading more, started recognizing inconsistencies, distortions and what I now know are gaslighting behaviors.  I informally (and discreetly) met with a counselor who thought her behaviors sounded like BPD (I have self diagnosed myself with a people pleasing personality as well). I've read many articles about BPD recently and the behavior patterns make sense now.

At the beginning of this year I realized this relationship was quickly moving in the wrong direction, and I wanted one more year to see if it would improve. I don't want our child to see their father exposed to this environment... .or at least see me tolerating it. My wife has met with a counselor at my insistence, but the behavior has not changed (and I don't know what has been discussed). Fortunately most of the behavior does not happen around our child, but that is starting to change.

I have a great deal of patience, and can tolerate a lot of this behavior without losing my temper. At first I thought I was showing restraint by taking all of this and trying to understand what she is feeling, now I realize I am also enabling it. I also reasoned initially that I could be a lightning rod to make sure this is not directed at our child, but growing up in a home like this could be equally damaging. If a child was not involved, this would be an easy decision to make.

I've briefly met with a family law attorney to understand my situation as a father. I'm trying to gather as much information as possible so I can make some decisions in the next few months.

What I struggle with:
1. How do you know when it is time to say enough and end the relationship?
2. What is the best thing I can do for our child? Continue to endure or risk losing daily involvement in their life to create a different and healthier alternative for you and them?
3. How long do you give counseling to work, or when it is clear it won't work?
4. How do you cope with the occasional guilt that something about you did trigger this? After all she seemed to be quite successful when we met. There are two people in a relationship, and for better or worse each feeds off the other.

Thank for your reading. There is a lot more I could say, but I think this explains where I am at right now.

[heartandwhole]

Hi ipheal,

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles right now. These kinds of situations are doubly difficult to deal with when when a child is involved. You sound like a compassionate and level-headed person, and it is evident how much you want to do the right thing for your family. That, in itself, will help you tremendously as you navigate this change in your relationship.

First of all, I'd like to encourage you to seek support regarding your wife's physical violence. No matter what kind of stressors she is experiencing, it is simply not okay to behave in that manner. It's important that you are safe and healthy, so that you can make the best decisions for yourself and your child, and the whole family. Here is a resource that will help you clarify the situation:

Safety First

Secondly, there are resources in your local area that can help (e.g. hotlines)—they will have information and options for you that you may not have considered, or didn't know were available, which could really help a lot in the long run.

You are not alone; many of our members have been in similar situations. They have shared their experiences in this discussion and I'm sure will share more in replies to your post:

TOOLS: Domestic Violence Against Men

How are you coping emotionally, ipheal? Do you have supportive friends and family whom you can lean on? (Do they know what's happening?) It's so important to practice self-care at times like these—getting enough rest, eating right, etc.

You've come to the right place for support. I commend you for already taking very helpful steps in reading about BPD, talking to a lawyer, exploring your own caretaking behavior,  posting here, etc. You are definitely on the a healthy path of change.

Keep writing and tell us more of your story. We're here to support you. 

heartandwhole

[Grey Kitty]

You are in a really tough situation... .and you will find help here--we've been through very similar things.

Please do read the link about domestic violence for men. Make sure you are safe--you can't do anything for your child if you are in jail or in a hospital.

And as for your big questions about what to do, I'm going to recommend you look a bit smaller at things now, instead of what you might do in a few months.

What can we help you do to reduce conflict and avoid/prevent/deal with verbal (or other abuse?)

I've always found it easier to start with a specific situation. Can you describe one typical incident that blew and became abusive? In some detail so we can help you make it go better next time?

[lpheal]

Thank for the replies. There is so much to this I didn't have time to include, but with subsequent posts maybe can add details where needed. It has been helpful understanding the behaviors in my wife are most likely from BPD.

I finally have told one of my siblings and also my parents. They don't live close to us, so it does not make the family dynamics as awkward. It was very helpful to finally tell someone though. I have not told any friends yet.

After one of the earliest incidents well over a year ago now I suggested we needed marital counseling to figure out what was going on. This was also before I had the insights into BPD I've gained in the past few months. It was obvious there were a lot of unhealthy behaviors developing. She refused to consider any type of personal or marital counseling, saying more or less "all they will hear is what I have done, and won't understand what you have done to cause all of this." After an incident of physical abuse about two months ago in front of our child I left the house. I was initially just intending to stay away for an hour or so. However, this is when I told my brother, and then spent a large portion of the afternoon calling a DV hotline and speaking several times with advocates. The general advice was to stay away and put my safety first. I texted my wife once to tell her I was okay, but was not coming home that night until we could figure out how to avoid conflicts like that in the future. I was mostly in my office at work, but later in the day went to a low key hotel and went to church the next morning. It was a long seemingly endless night of angry texts and voicemails, but the tone finally changed the next day about noon when she said she really needed to talk. I was suspicious of her sincerity, but was so worried about the well-being of our child I did decide to come home. During the talk she agreed to meet with a therapist. Things were okay for about 24 hours, then it was quickly back to the old behavior and now worse since I had now "abandoned my child to take a vacation when things got difficult," leaving her to do all of the work. I should also add that I had initially suggested that WE go to a counselor together, but she said I could not be trusted to not say too much (about her behavior) so she would have to be the one to go to counseling and do all of the work on our relationship.

On the advice of the separate counselor I met with privately a week later, I bought and read the book "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me." Prior to that I had found a book discussing DBT as a potential successful therapy for BPD. Both of these gave me some hope. I was interested in the chapter on communicating with the borderline that discussed the SET-UP principles of communication. Thus far though, it has only had limited success.

To describe a recent situation, I'll describe my birthday. I don't need anything complicated for my birthday or need any special recognition. We went to the park in the morning so our child could play. Simple things like this are a lot of fun for me, just seeing our child have a good time. While we were there most of my family sent text messages to me saying happy birthday. One of my brothers sent me a video singing happy birthday. His wife always triggers angry reactions in my wife for sometimes real (but mostly imagined) reasons. I did not want to distract or ruin our morning in the park so I did not mention any of the texts. If I had said that my brothers family just texted a video she would have said they are trying to interrupt our family time. When we got home she asked if I had heard from anyone in my family, and I said yes everyone had sent me text messages. Later in the afternoon (after cake and presents, but before anyone called), she asked if anyone had sent a video. I said yes my brother's family had sent one, and I showed it to her. She flew into a rage at that point, which lasted the rest of the evening. I'll try to sum up the general sense of it: She said I would have never told her about that video if she had not asked (yes, that's probably true knowing this would happen). I couldn't be trusted to tell her the truth. I was siding with my brother's family over her, I've made her invisible. I never speak up for her, or advocate for her. I am not a real man. There was a lot of profanity inserted (that I won't type). Graphic stuff though, she was going to crush certain body parts into a meat grinder, etc.

When these comments started, I walked away saying that this wasn't a conversation and I did not need to be talked to like that. She proceeded to throw the birthday cake out the back door and all of my presents. She said this was all my fault, and I had ruined the day by my actions. I had walked away, but she followed me and this was followed by physical abuse with slapping, punching and kicking. I don't retaliate, as I know it would take almost nothing to trigger a counter accusation. She stormed off to bed very shortly after all of that. This is common pattern and always a relief because it usually ends the confrontation.

I know all of this would be shocking to someone not familiar with BPD, but it's become shockingly "un-shocking" now. She will be back to normal the next morning (or sometimes two days later), and things will feel normal for a few days. I may need to provide a more specific example of how something I say triggers this, but I feel like often it is things outside of my control that I somehow should have been able to do something about.

I can detach and recognize I'm not dealing with rational thinking, but there are limits to what anyone should tolerate. Again, I think this would be an easy decision without a child involved. I owe it to our child (now, and in the future) to try and get my wife some help so these behaviors don't spill into their future relationship. I can promise that I won't have another birthday like the last one though, and won't be spending it with someone who acts like that.

Thanks again for reading and responding.

[lpheal]

I wanted to add that the counselor I met with characterized my situation as "extreme," and the family law attorney used the words "alarming" and "highly concerning."

I feel like I live with two different people at times (one the rational person you married, the other not), and have two separate running conversations with each of them. Unfortunately I talk to the irrational person more often now.

I do think I understand how serious this situation is right now. My wife is still meeting with the therapist every few weeks, so there is some hope in that she has not disengaged from them. I have another attorney meeting very soon, where I hope to understand how best to proceed legally if needed (should I just leave the house, ask her to leave, child custody, etc). I keep my phone in my pocket at all my times in the house, should I need to lock the nearest door and call the police. I feel like I could leave the house within minutes if needed and never come back. I don't have a well developed plan for how I could/would do this with our child, but I am working on that now as well.

I'm presuming a relationship that has this level of conflict would need months and years of help before getting back to a place of trust and respect. I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience in this area, specifically where things have worked out. I'm now having to do all of this planning, meeting with counselors and attorneys without her knowledge. I hate having to do that. A big part of me wants to make sense of what is happening to my wife as well. How could someone you thought you knew so well change to much to someone you don't even recognize at times?
 

[Notwendy]

Hi Ipheal,

I don't think I have advice about your situation. However, your story resonated with me as my mother shows these behaviors. Yes, I've seen a few birthday cakes go flying, along with dishes, things out of the refrigerator, and other items. I once told a teacher about cleaning this stuff off the kitchen floor. I was about 10. The teacher called my mother who came to get me and denied all of it.

People must have thought I had a wild imagination as a kid. If my parents found out I had told anyone about what went on in my house, they would be angry at me. My mother also seemed to have two personas. The one everyone saw, ( and we sometimes saw) and the one we only saw at home and were to pretend nothing happened. Eventually we realized that there was no point in telling anyone, nobody would believe us anyway.


There would be an episode like you described at your birthday and the next day, nothing happened... .we didn't see it, it didn't happen and my parents would just act as if nothing happened.

I don't really know what is the best thing to do, but your story was the "normal" that I and my siblings grew up with, and were taught to consider that to be normal.

[Grey Kitty]

I finally have told one of my siblings and also my parents. They don't live close to us, so it does not make the family dynamics as awkward. It was very helpful to finally tell someone though. I have not told any friends yet.

I'm glad you have told some family members. I've got a couple suggestions about telling your friends or other (local) family members.

1. If you do talk, instead of mentioning BPD, talk about specific behaviors instead (raging, hitting you, etc.). And do acknowledge them instead of hiding them, trying to "cover" for your wife so she doesn't look bad. As in if she blows up at you in front of somebody, don't downplay it. Or if she tells you you can't go to a family event, or doesn't show up herself, try to walk the fine line between blaming her and excusing her, if that makes sense.

2. *Most* people don't understand BPD, don't understand mental health, and won't give you very good advice or support. This community does. A good therapist does. If you are very lucky, you may have a friend who does understand that you can lean on that way, but more likely you don't. Friends who don't understand can still support you. Going fishing and *NOT* thinking about any of this crap and drama for four hours can do you a world of good too!

3. You spent a night at a hotel, to escape physical abuse. That is EXCELLENT on your part. Exactly the right thing to do, even if she criticized you for it. If your local friends or family can provide you a guest bedroom or spare couch, either for yourself or for yourself and your child, consider asking about that in advance; Blowups often come up late at night, not a particularly easy time to ask about this. A hotel may be a better choice... .but do consider if your support network can help there.

To describe a recent situation, I'll describe my birthday. I don't need anything complicated for my birthday or need any special recognition. We went to the park in the morning so our child could play. Simple things like this are a lot of fun for me, just seeing our child have a good time. While we were there most of my family sent text messages to me saying happy birthday. One of my brothers sent me a video singing happy birthday. His wife always triggers angry reactions in my wife for sometimes real (but mostly imagined) reasons. I did not want to distract or ruin our morning in the park so I did not mention any of the texts. If I had said that my brothers family just texted a video she would have said they are trying to interrupt our family time. When we got home she asked if I had heard from anyone in my family, and I said yes everyone had sent me text messages. Later in the afternoon (after cake and presents, but before anyone called), she asked if anyone had sent a video. I said yes my brother's family had sent one, and I showed it to her. She flew into a rage at that point, which lasted the rest of the evening. I'll try to sum up the general sense of it: She said I would have never told her about that video if she had not asked (yes, that's probably true knowing this would happen). I couldn't be trusted to tell her the truth. I was siding with my brother's family over her, I've made her invisible. I never speak up for her, or advocate for her. I am not a real man. There was a lot of profanity inserted (that I won't type). Graphic stuff though, she was going to crush certain body parts into a meat grinder, etc.

Two things come to mind here... .first, you had very good intuition/expectation that she would get jealous and upset about you hearing from your family like that... .and you are correct that there is no need to create trouble by mentioning it to her.

The way she responded might have been inescapable, and likely was--birthdays and such are stressful times for pwBPD, and likely to cause blowups. It is also possible that your way of responding to the questions made it a *little* worse, maybe just your fearful body language.

When these comments started, I walked away saying that this wasn't a conversation and I did not need to be talked to like that. She proceeded to throw the birthday cake out the back door and all of my presents. She said this was all my fault, and I had ruined the day by my actions. I had walked away, but she followed me and this was followed by physical abuse with slapping, punching and kicking. I don't retaliate, as I know it would take almost nothing to trigger a counter accusation. She stormed off to bed very shortly after all of that. This is common pattern and always a relief because it usually ends the confrontation.

My only advice is to make your departure faster and earlier, or try to disengage from the raging before it gets physical.

I will note one thing about the comments that this is "alarming" "extreme" and "highly concerning"... .This kind of abusive behavior doesn't tend to be stable.

The bad: Unchecked, it tends to escalate, and physical abuse is a pretty high level of escalation. So far, you don't sound like you've been seriously injured, but that could be next.

The good: It can also de-escalate, if you change. If you make it clear that you won't be present for abuse, it can go the other way. It won't be easy, and when you change how you respond, expect her to push harder to get things back the way they were... .making it harder. But many members here (myself included) have had success enforcing boundaries against abuse, and the abuse has stopped being an issue. It *is* possible to protect yourself from the abuse.

[Lucky Jim]

I feel like I live with two different people at times (one the rational person you married, the other not), and have two separate running conversations with each of them. Unfortunately I talk to the irrational person more often now.

Hey ipheal, right, that was my experience as well as.  BPD became far more pronounced over the course of 15 years.  So I would suggest that BPD can get much worse over time.

Sorry to hear about your situation, which sounds extremely stressful.

LuckyJim

[lpheal]

LuckyJim,

On the subject of having two different running conversations, it becomes very difficult to have any meaningful conversation. Things that I need to discuss or tell the "normal person" are later used as ammunition against me when the "irrational person" shows up and goes on a verbal attack.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey ipheal, Agree, which is why towards the end of my marriage I declined to share anything personal with my BPDxW, for fear that it would be used as ammunition against me.  At that point, we were like strangers living under the same roof and our marriage was essentially over.  Your marriage, of course, is different.

I'm a patient guy, too, which is a positive quality in other contexts, yet I came to see that my patience may have been misplaced, or certainly taken advantage of, in a BPD r/s.

LuckyJim

[lpheal]

your story resonated with me as my mother shows these behaviors.

It scares me when I think my child could have a birthday in 5-10 years where something like this could happen. I can see the behavior for what it is now, but I can't imagine how this would have feel to a 7 or 8 year old.

[lpheal]

Blowups often come up late at night

If you make it clear that you won't be present for abuse, it can go the other way. It won't be easy, and when you change how you respond, expect her to push harder to get things back the way they were... .making it harder. But many members here (myself included) have had success enforcing boundaries against abuse, and the abuse has stopped being an issue. It *is* possible to protect yourself from the abuse.

Thank you so much for all of the suggestions.

You are right, the blow-ups almost always come at night. She was out of town for just one night recently and it was one of the happiest nights I can remember in at least several years. No one was going to yell at me before I went to sleep that night!

I think if I had known about BPD from the very beginning I could have had a very different approach to many aspects of our marriage (especially how to handle conversations and conflict). The behavior changed gradually though and at successive stages of the relationship: engagement, marriage, moving to new city, new parenthood... .and has gotten worse each time. It's a challenge to change your own defense mechanisms you develop to deal with all of this.

I saw another post where someone found it more difficult when their spouse was acting normally. That is happening to me now. When she acts normally and tries to be funny/charming around others I get pretty upset inside because I see the control she is able to maintain when she needs to do so. She has been in the middle of a rage against me, then her out-of-town friend calls on the phone and she is suddenly laughing and joking.

[Grey Kitty]

You are right, the blow-ups almost always come at night. She was out of town for just one night recently and it was one of the happiest nights I can remember in at least several years. No one was going to yell at me before I went to sleep that night!

That's tough. And also makes everything harder. Not getting rest or not feeling safe at night takes a real toll on a person.

Can you describe the dialog when you were trying to go to bed / get to sleep last time this happened?

[lpheal]

Can you describe the dialog when you were trying to go to bed / get to sleep last time this happened?

It happens just about every night. Usually I put our child to bed, and it's not unusual for me to fall asleep for 30-45 minutes when I do. So I generally come back to the family room within the hour. I will have to paraphrase a dialogue. She surfs the internet, checks Facebook and watches TV. I come and sit down, she does not say anything. If I start reading or doing something else, she starts saying I'm trying to ignore her.

A recent example is my Mom told her we should come visit soon (we live far away).

My wife: "What is her problem? What is she trying to do, make us pay for all of the plane tickets? Doesn't she know we have come to visit three times in the past two years? I have a terrible PR person in your family! You need to make it clear to your expletive family that we have come to visit, and they need to come see us instead. Your parents aren't going to live forever! "

Me: "My mother did not mean anything negative by her comment. She was just trying to express that she would like to see us. It's not a bad thing when people say they want to see you."

Wife: "Whatever, I don't care about your opinion. What should I care about anything you have to say? You have a do-nothing approach to life and our relationship, and I can't count on you to speak up for me. You don't do anything to make my life better-what are you doing to do to make my life better? You never speak to them, you've never invited them to come visit."

Me: "I do speak to them, and I have invited them to come visit."

Wife: "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! I don't care what you are saying, the bottom line is they haven't come! You can't get the job done! If you were a real man, you would speak up for me, take care of your family and take care of your child."

Me: "There are many reasons they have not come to visit, but it is not because they don't care about us or our child."

Wife: "Whatever, we both know there are favorite children and grandchildren and we are not it. What did our child ever do to be so unlucky? You are so stupid and so naïve! You have to be the most stupid person I've ever met! You believe what you want to believe, and you don't have any sense of reality! You are an expletive, an EXPLETIVE! I hate you, I hate your (expletive) family!"

Wife: "You still haven't answered my question, what are you going to do RIGHT NOW to make my life better? I'm waiting for an answer!"

Me: "I can't snap my fingers and make things happen. If these is a specific problem or issue, we can work on that issue and go from there.

Wife: "I'm not talking about a specific issue, I'm talking about EVERYTHING! I'm talking about MY LIFE and YOU ARE RUINING IT! Don't try and change the subject!"

It is often nonsensical, as I tried to convey.

If you can believe the personal insults usually get worse from there. Sometimes I start saying less, sometimes I say this isn't a conversation anymore and will get up and walk away. If I walk away she will often follow me wherever I am going to stay engaged... .but if this pattern has been going on for an hour she might just go to bed herself. If she stays engaged, the insults become worse and I stop responding which puts her into a further rage. It might be 11pm or midnight at that point, and I just want to go to bed. On some occasions she storms off if I don't leave the chair. I haven't decided what is the most effective way of ending these.

I hope that gives you some sense of it. In the end, whatever the particular issue is, I am ruining her life by how I handle it.

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, this is going nowhere in a hurry. Have you seen this article?

How to stop circular arguments

From your description, this is a predictable downhill slide. It was pretty bad in the first paraphrased dialog by your wife. Possible to recover perhaps, but still pretty bad. However by this time (your wife's second dialog), I think it was waaaaaay too late:

Wife: "Whatever, I don't care about your opinion. What should I care about anything you have to say? ... .

At that the latest I would be exiting the conversation at this point. Nothing good is going to come of this.

By this point it is pretty much pure verbal abuse of you, and the topic or subject or original trigger doesn't even matter. It is harmful to you to listen to this. It isn't helping your wife to let her say this to you either. She's obviously emotionally wound up and upset, but using you as an emotional (or physical if it gets that far!) punching bag isn't good or healthy for her either.

If you allow her to manage her emotions by beating you up, she will. If you take that option away from her, she has a chance to find a better way to manage her emotions.

Here's the thing--you don't have to get your wife's approval to stop talking about this. You don't even have to get her agreement. You just have to remove yourself from the situation.

And she won't work with you--she will try to escalate things to keep you engaged. Plan on it and be prepared to deal with it. Here's a progression I might use:

0. Change the subject to something non-confrontational. [Note this has a better chance earlier!]

(Assuming she comes back to the subject)
1. "I will not be spoken to that way."

(She doesn't stop)
2. Get up and leave the room.

3A. Go to bed. (Assuming you want to go to bed, and she won't keep going on here; Sounds like this won't work either.)

3B. Leave the house.

If it isn't too late, and especially if you are wound up, just go out for half an hour or an hour. Take a walk. Do an errand that you might have done at another time. (We can offer a few tips on how to do this a little more gracefully.)

Note... .it may be better to leave the house for the night instead.

(If she blocks your access to leave)
4. Inform her that preventing you from leaving qualifies as domestic violence, and you will call the police if she doesn't get out of your way immediately. (This is better to do with your cellphone in your hand, 911 entered, and your finger at the "dial" button.)

(If she follows you outside)
5. Get in the car and drive away.

(If she follows you in her car)
6. Drive to a police station parking lot.

There is a lot of escalation here in this example... .and ways to get around it.

The fundamental thing is this--she doesn't have any right to verbally abuse you; you do not have any duty to accept verbal abuse.

Do you think you can do something like this next time? Are there steps that seem impossible or not workable for you?

This is a fairly general recommendation. You have a small child, and that obviously plays into it, especially if you have any concerns that she would abuse or neglect the child... .and obviously leaving with the child vs. leaving the child with her are very different... .I'm not a parent, so if this is a concern, look to others for better advice.

The other complicating factor here is involving law enforcement. As a man, in many jurisdictions you are at a strong disadvantage to your wife in domestic violence situations. I recommend you get some local information, and read this if you haven't already.

TOOLS: Domestic Violence Against Men

[lpheal]

Do you think you can do something like this next time? Are there steps that seem impossible or not workable for you?

I guess without realizing it, I have been using the early parts of this strategy to an extent, and it will work at times (but sometimes not).

I have a lot of concerns about escalating to this degree when a child is involved. At least in my mind it adds a magnitude of complexity to the situation. I'm also very nervous about getting law enforcement involved because I do feel like things are not in my favor as a male (and there isn't any overt history of bad behavior on record to help my case). If they get the wrong perception of the situation, I would be on the defensive pretty quickly and with immediate personal (and professional) consequences. I do plan to discuss this issue with the attorney very soon, but I'm afraid I already know what they are going to say based on an initial conversation (you need to get out of the house).

There are a few other things that she did the last time I left the house for the night, which I again need to talk to an attorney about before leaving again (or discussing here). I'm sorry to be vague about it right now.

Maybe the biggest issue I struggle with is understanding what recovery looks like. I feel like I could employ these strategies and over time have a more stable day-to-day home environment and avoid the physical abuse. For our relationship to get back to a healthy place of trust and understanding, at some point there would need to be an understanding of how damaging her behaviors have been. It seems like the prospects for that are more bleak.

[formflier]

You are getting lots of great advice.

Sometimes to stop or "shake up" a dynamic you need to change the "scene" (think of a play when they change the set).

So... what happens if you stop hanging out in the family room?

Take your kid to bed.  Get a quick snooze.  Change into something comfortable for a walk.

Breeze back into family room with a cold glass of ice water for your wife. 

Place water close to her... .light touch on her shoulder... ."Hey... I'm going for a walk.  Would mean a lot to me if you would come with me or feel free to enjoy yourself here."

Don't engage in debate about it.  If she goes... .fine.  Talk about how pleasant the night air is.  If she doesn't go... .you go enjoy a walk.

How do you think she would react to something like that?

FF

[flourdust]

Hi, Lpheal, and welcome!

I sense from your posts that you are trying to provide a lot of detail in the hope that we'll find your story credible. There's no need -- many of us have experienced the exact same bizarre abusive behaviors that you describe. My own story is not very different from yours.

My wife's BPD was also exacerbated my life stressors -- job losses, moves, parenting, etc. The stress of changing and more complex circumstances destabilized her.

The balance between "good days" and "bad days" shifted more and more toward bad days being dominant.

Verbal and emotional abuse and circular arguments came to dominate our interactions, with triggers that were inexplicable, trivial, or out of my control, as well as demands that were unreasonable and unattainable. (The demand to "fix my feelings right now" is a common one.)

My wife also perceived family members as bad people and was triggered by (and blamed me for) their behaviors.

Our child is older than yours -- she was around eight when the problems began to escalate out of control, and she was exposed to a lot of nasty stuff. My wife and I ended up separating, and we are now divorcing. I have primary custody of the kid (for now, at least), which has created a healthier and more stable living environment. Divorce CAN create a better home for a kid than an abusive marriage. This is my reality.

Here's what I would advise you to do:

1. Prepare a "go bag" for yourself and your kid -- include a change of clothes, some money, a phone charger, medications, basic hygiene stuff, even a toy or book for the kid. Have it somewhere you can get to when out of the house. I kept mine in the tire well of my car. It was necessary when I needed to flee abuse one night and go to a hotel.

2. Unless you have concerns about your local police department, do not be afraid to call 911 when a situation is getting abusive. As long as you stay very calm when the police are around, you can explain the situation and have them try to de-escalate things. This may also help build a police record that will support you later, should you end up involved in divorce or a parenting evaluation.

3. Enforcing boundaries (like walking away, calling 911, going to a hotel) will help you avoid abuse. As you've learned, it will also cause the abuse to escalate. This is a nasty catch-22. You have to decide yourself what you can tolerate. However, your situation involves much more physical abuse than mine did, so I think the level of danger you are in is significant, and you should not try to downplay that.

4. There are really only two paths that could lead to improvement in this situation. One - remove yourself permanently. You can't be abused if you aren't there. Two - your wife needs to try aggressive therapy. DBT is usually the recommended program, possibly supplemented with medication. However, even in the BEST case scenario, where your wife accepts that she has a problem and works sincerely on changing it, this will take a long time to show results. In my circumstance, my wife was a reluctant participant in DBT and continued to blame me for her explosive reactions, so it was a waste of time.

Good luck to you. You are not alone. Your experiences are very strange ... .but to many of us, very familiar, too.

[Lucky Jim]

My wife's BPD was also exacerbated my life stressors -- job losses, moves, parenting, etc. The stress of changing and more complex circumstances destabilized her.

The balance between "good days" and "bad days" shifted more and more toward bad days being dominant.

Verbal and emotional abuse and circular arguments came to dominate our interactions, with triggers that were inexplicable, trivial, or out of my control, as well as demands that were unreasonable and unattainable.

Hey flourdust, All I can say is: Ditto!  You summed up my marriage to a "T."  It all came unglued and now we're divorced, which is better for me and the kids.

LuckyJim

[Grey Kitty]

I guess without realizing it, I have been using the early parts of this strategy to an extent, and it will work at times (but sometimes not).

Ultimately, if there is a point where you will back down, because the next step is too much for you to feel comfortable taking/risking, she will probably continue to take advantage of it, if not escalating it further.

On the other hand if you can protect yourself at all levels, and are *consistent* in doing so, you won't need the higher levels much once she figures it out.

I have a lot of concerns about escalating to this degree when a child is involved.

I hope she isn't abusing or neglecting the child even at her worst. That is where it gets really complicated. If you can trust her to be a safe parent when you leave even under difficult circumstances, you have a lot more options.

Either way, others have experience with small children than I do, and can advise you better.

I'm also very nervous about getting law enforcement involved because I do feel like things are not in my favor as a male (and there isn't any overt history of bad behavior on record to help my case).

Yes. Please figure out what the best you can do here is. Documentation of abuse helps a great deal. Audio or video recorders or recording apps on your phone may help you here, although legality/admissibility of this varies from state to state.

Maybe the biggest issue I struggle with is understanding what recovery looks like.

It can vary widely. Depends both on what you do and what your wife does. My marriage had a window of time that was very much a success story. My wife was never diagnosed with BPD, but when I found these forums, I thought she met the criteria. I was able to enforce boundaries to protect myself from abuse, and that did pretty much stop. Months later, she had a bit of a breakthrough, and really did stop trying the abusive behavior, instead of giving up when I disengaged from it, which she had been doing. That kind of breakthrough may well be rare, but it is possible.

What is more certainly possible is for you to build good solid boundaries and stop the abuse that way. And since you share a young child, you are unlikely to be able to remove her from your life entirely, so whether you stay with her or split up, she is likely to continue this kind of behavior unless you do something different.

[lpheal]

I really appreciate everyone's assistance. I am trying to take steps to help in the short term as has been suggested, but I do also feel like I need to think what things need to look like in the near future and what would happen next.

My biggest concern is our child. I want them to have as few memories of this as possible, but don't want to destroy their world by leaving the relationship in the interest of protecting them. The highlight of my day and my child's day is me coming home to spend time with them, and that makes it very hard for me to risk not being a part of their daily life... .even when I know it would mean better things in the long term. Are there other threads that discuss children and the effects of all of this someone could point me to?

[formflier]

even when I know it would mean better things in the long term.

I would challenge this as an assumption.

Every r/s is different. 

Until you start applying tools... .consistently, you won't be able to know how much stability and healing can be brought to the r/s.


FF

[Grey Kitty]

My biggest concern is our child. I want them to have as few memories of this as possible, but don't want to destroy their world by leaving the relationship in the interest of protecting them.

You are making this more of an all-or-nothing choice than it has to be here.

You can change things in your marriage, so that what your child sees isn't as bad as what has already happened. If you do stay in the marriage, your child will look to your relationship with your spouse as a model of how this is supposed to be. All you can truly control is your side--how you treat your spouse, and what treatment you accept from your spouse.

If you leave the relationship, some form of joint custody is by far the most likely outcome, and it isn't a world-destroying situation. Some changes will be for the better, others will be for the worse. Everybody will adapt somehow.

Are there other threads that discuss children and the effects of all of this someone could point me to?

This workshop comes to mind as one starting point:

TOOLS: When are the children of a BPD parent at risk?

Please feel free to start a topic asking for help on how to deal with this; members in different situations will have different experiences; you can post on any or all of them.

• The Improving board (or this Deciding board), to ask how people with a spouse with BPD's children are coping, and what they've been able to do about it.
• The Co-parenting after the split board (How the other choice went)
• The Coping and healing from a BPD Parent board, to ask how people who grew up with a BPD parent impacted them, and what they felt about whether their parents split up and when.
• Lastly, if you are seriously thinking about splitting, the Family Law, Divorce, and Custody board will give you some idea how the split itself could go, and how to protect yourself and your child during it.

[lpheal]

I would challenge this as an assumption.

[/quote]

Thanks for the input. I do also need to consider that while it would certainly be different, it may not be better.

I am trying to work of all of the things that have been suggested here and on the website in general. I do feel like these is a window of time in the next half-year to year to see how much better things can get.

[lpheal]

You are making this more of an all-or-nothing choice than it has to be here.

[/quote]

You are definitely correct, it would not be an all-or-nothing choice. Thanks for sending the links.

[formflier]

  it may not be better.
 

This is where we can help you.  Before trying to use your tools, we can help you focus on a goal.

If I start doing X then is is likely that MY life will be better or my relationship will be better?

Likely not a wise use of energy and time to chase after something that many on these boards are advising will not be a good outcome for you.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I am trying to work of all of the things that have been suggested here and on the website in general. I do feel like these is a window of time in the next half-year to year to see how much better things can get.

  If that's what you want to do, go for it. I've got a couple suggestions for you:

1. Go ahead and make that commitment. At least decide to work on it for a while, and try to stop ruminating about whether to stay or leave--Tell yourself to revisit that question later (a week, a month, the 1st of the year, whatever feels right to you)... .and if your wife steps up the abuse toward you, or starts into your child, that's your cue to reconsider.

2. I find it far more useful to address a specific issue instead of a general one. Start with one conversation that went south, or one very concrete specific issue. Let members who have dealt with it before offer suggestions... .try things that sound helpful, and let us know how it works.

Consider reading and posting on the Improving Board here, as you seem to have decided that you will keep working on this for a while, and want to make it better. (Being committed to stay forever isn't a requirement for posting there!)

It helps to look for topics by other members that sound similar to your situation--You may find that other members are having problems so similar that you will wonder if they are married to your spouse--I've heard people joke about that before. There is a lot you can learn that way.