Feel free to say I told you so.

[babyducks]

How do you cope/deal with everything being great and turning into a massivr train wreck in a couple of hours?

by not taking it personally.   this isn't about you.   as much as the topics may be about what you said or did.   or didn't say or didn't do.   this isn't about you.   it's about her projecting her shame onto you.

Hi Oncebitten,

Don't underestimate the amount of shame, self loathing and pain that a person with BPD lives with.  And don't underestimate the lengths they will go to in an attempt to soothe that pain by off loading it on to you.   This is about her inappropriate coping skills.  This is about her trying desperately to feel whole.   Her wants and needs will always surpass yours.   

You did nothing wrong, if you failed to act in ways that reflect your best possible nature, that makes you human, not mean or evil.   

When stuck in a circular argument, (you did this and it hurt me, well you did that and it hurt me too) some one has to be the bigger person and end the argument.   Recognize it won't be her because she is getting something out of the argument.   A place to dump her rage.   

  So you try harder and again life is good for a while.  I have read so much here and everywhere else.  And I know its wrong and I know what happens but I have always thought if I did one thing a little better or poured myself out just a little more... .

I understand that desire.  To give a little more.   To try a little harder.   What I learned was that it didn't much matter how much I gave or how hard I tried.   My partner processes life in a way that creates conflict and reinforces her perceptions that the whole world is out to get her.   That is her world view.    I can't impact that.   

What I can do is take care of me.   Work to protect and understand my own truth.   It's very hard to hold two opposing truths in my head at the same time.   The first is I care for my partner very much.   The second is my partner is so mentally ill she is dangerous for me to be around.   Neither truth cancels the other, neither truth negates the other.   If I want to be around her I have to accept that I will be hurt.   If I don't want to be hurt I need to limit or end contact.    If want to be some where in the middle I have to accept that it will require some mental gymnastics and lots of change for me.

I am sorry you are going through this.   I have come to believe that being in a relationship with a pwBPD means I am still learning.   Learning about me.   There is always more to learn.

hope this helps
ducks

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sad but wiser]

To work through the grief of a broken heart means being willing to let go of what "should have been" or "could have been" with this person.  I have done it and several of my friends have.  No one died or committed suicide, though that was on the table at times.  We talked each other down it and through it.  For me, it was with God's grace.
  How to begin?  Hold on to one simple realization.
For me it was: "He just has NOTHING to offer."
I could bend over backwards and do a pretzel dance, turn $5 into $5,000 magically.  Juggle 2 babies, 45 dishes and assorted groceries, agree with him on every issue... .and never ever have his love, respect or loyalty.  He didn't have it to give... .he was a black hole.  And I had been a fool.
After that I embraced another truth, and another until I finally saw him for the first time.  The real him.  Entitled, conniving, manipulative and stuck in babyhood.  Someone who could never lose.  Someone who made himself unemployable, who saw his spousal support money as his "benefits" (yes, I paid).  He actually said these things to me, just in contexts where I misinterpreted them and his motivations.  He didn't care to change... .that was my job.
So, that was how I managed, it is a bit different for each of us.  But the steps are the same.
  Start with a simple realization, a fundamental truth, and rebuild your internal compass.
Good luck.

[Oncebitten]

CS

She creates a catch 22... doesnt matter what I do. 

[sad but wiser]

Right.  Now hold that truth.  Write it down, add 5 good examples below.  Write the PROCESS she uses.  Soon you will recognize this.  Good for you.  That's one compass point.

[C.Stein]

She creates a catch 22... doesnt matter what I do.

It takes two to tango OB.  Taking love and sex off the table, what is driving you to keep going back and completing the catch?  

[Oncebitten]

I am tired of being set up to fail.

I am tired of circular arguments that have no resolution and that I can't walk away from either because that makes me a coward.

I am tired of hearing about how I destroyed our relationship by involving myself with another woman after she broke up with me
.
I am tired of caring for her every concern and fear.  Then the moment I need her and its not convenient for her, we need to stand on our own.

I am tired of having her throw her ex in my face just because she knows it hurts me.

[Oncebitten]

CS

If you take love out of the equation... .there is nothing to go back to.  Just believe that I had found "her" the first person to truly get me.  My soulmate, the love of my life.  Thats why I have kept going back.  Thats why I tried as hard as I did.

[sad but wiser]

You are on a learning curve.  Good for you!  It hurts, it is bitter, but eventually you will break through to compassion.  For yourself and for your ex.
You love to feel yourself giving.  You love to feel yourself being heroic.  Well, believe me, a real relationship needs that just as much as an unhealthy one does.  The difference is, a healthy woman will return sweetness and trust instead of insecurity and blame.  A real woman is a reward, not an unending task. A real woman can be pleased, drops old issues and leaves them, and enjoys being there for you.
  Real women are out there.  You must heal first, though.  Don't use a person to heal the wounds.  Let people help you do the healing work.   

[Oncebitten]

A real woman would drop old issues.  She wouldn't look for ways to bring them up.  She wouldn't search for wrong doing.  She would acknowledge that every thing you have done was an attempt to repair the damage you did.  Will she still hurt from time to time yes, will she still get angry with you because of it. Of course, but she would also let go over time and realize that saying I forgive you lets  move forward means just that. 

[C.Stein]

If you take love out of the equation... .there is nothing to go back to.  Just believe that I had found "her" the first person to truly get me.  My soulmate, the love of my life.  Thats why I have kept going back.  Thats why I tried as hard as I did.

I get these feelings OB, I felt the same for my ex, but I think the reasons you keep going back are much more complicated.  This is what I am attempting to dig out of you without leading you to the water so to speak.  

There comes a time when you have to accept love is not enough.  So let's look at the tangible things about the relationship, the things that add to your personal self and enriches your life.  

Can you list the ways she adds to your life, how you benefit personally from being in a relationship with her?

In what way does she truly get you?

What is it about her you truly love?  Be specific.

How does she show her love and caring for you?  Again, be specific.

[Oncebitten]

She has always understood me in a way no one else ever has.  I have always felt accepted with, never been anything about myself, no matter how dark that I felt I couldn't share with her.  And she never judged me for it.

For the first time in my life I had found someone that wanted me around.  Wanted my attention and gave it back to me as fully as I gave to her.

I love her passion for life, how strong she is.  How she doesn't back down. Really do love everything about her, we want so many of the same things in life.  We do fit well together, thats why I have kept going back

[C.Stein]

OB,  I know it is hard but please try to dig deeper than that and answer all the questions.  This is for your benefit, not mine.  

I also will ask you to read what you have written in this thread so far and compare it to what you just wrote.  Do you see any contradictions?

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey Once-

Can I point something out?  First you say:

I am tired of being set up to fail.
I am tired of circular arguments that have no resolution and that I can't walk away from either because that makes me a coward.
I am tired of hearing about how I destroyed our relationship by involving myself with another woman after she broke up with me.
I am tired of caring for her every concern and fear.  Then the moment I need her and its not convenient for her, we need to stand on our own.
I am tired of having her throw her ex in my face just because she knows it hurts me.

And then you say:

I have always felt accepted with, never been anything about myself, no matter how dark that I felt I couldn't share with her.  And she never judged me for it.

Really do love everything about her, we want so many of the same things in life.  We do fit well together, thats why I have kept going back

I understand that place.  C.Stein is asking some great questions that will benefit you when you dig in and answer them.  To add, you're still in the fog, which leads to the confusion above, so I'll reiterate the question are you willing to go 90 days without communicating with her in any way, so you can focus on the answers to C.Stein's questions without her influence?  90 days isn't very long, although your perceptions will change and you'll get some clarity, and then you can make decisions from that place, once you've let the fog clear a little and dug into your own feelings and motivations.  Are you willing to commit to that?

[Oncebitten]

Cs

I understand what you are trying to get me to do a d I do appreciate it.  And yes i realize a lot of what i wrote is a contradiction.  Because both are true, she is supportive and then dissmisses my feelings completely.  She loves me better than I have ever beenoved and then hates me more than I know I deserve.

Its the push/pull the I love/hate you.   Its a constant storm of emotions with her good and bad.

[Oncebitten]

FHTH

Ok lets say I commit to 90 days.  What do I do when she contacts me because you know its coming.  If I just go Nc and ignore her and want to try the r/s again in 90 days I will have most certainly destroyed any chance at reconciliation.

[C.Stein]

OB, IMO you need to take a huge step back here to get some clarity.  

I would like you to write four different pros & cons list when you get a chance.  Be as honest as you can when you do and if you feel comfortable, share them with us.

The Four Pros & Cons Lists:

• For her personality and character
• For what she contributes to the relationship
• For your personality and character
• For what you contribute to the relationship

[fromheeltoheal]

Ok lets say I commit to 90 days.  What do I do when she contacts me because you know its coming.  If I just go Nc and ignore her and want to try the r/s again in 90 days I will have most certainly destroyed any chance at reconciliation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but technically you are not in a committed relationship with her right now yes?  So you say something like "I'm going to do my own thing for a while, please do not contact me" or something to that effect, brief, informative, friendly and firm, and what she does is what she does.  It's about putting your needs first and creating some distance so you can process your emotions without her influence.  It will be difficult but the hardest part is at the beginning and it will get easier.  The other choice is to continue on this roller coaster, which will not change.  It's up to you.

[Oncebitten]

CS

Ok I will do that and put it in a new post.

[Oncebitten]

FHTH

I have told her for a while that I thought I needed to take time and sort myself out.  And She is always supportive of that.  But then I think she feels that I might leave her so she turns on the charm and gets me to come back in some fashion.

[fromheeltoheal]

I have told her for a while that I thought I needed to take time and sort myself out.  And She is always supportive of that.  But then I think she feels that I might leave her so she turns on the charm and gets me to come back in some fashion.

Because she interprets that as abandonment, the worst thing that can happen for a borderline, so she goes into pull mode.  But she only "gets you" to come back because you let her.  Which is why you need time and distance so you can make decisions about what's best for you.  90 days Once.

[sweet tooth]

Usually when I feel really good is when she pulls the rug out. 

But any answer I give is wrong and before you know, she hates me and never wants to speak to me again.  Out the door she goes to god knows where I am a left to wonder how it all went so wrong.  And how it is that no matter what... .I can't fix a damn thing.

Been there. It sucks.

[Oncebitten]

its the absolute worst.  we went from everything being wonderful to absolute hell and being broken up in less than 4 hours.

And I know what we fought about, but I still dont know why it was an issue.  And I guess thats the worst.  I really wish I had done something awful and I could hang my hat on it and say well, you messed up accept the blame and go on.  But right now I am just confused.  I guess thats what gets to all of us non's, it just doesnt make sense.

[JQ]

OB,

Take a deep breath for a moment & let it out slow. You've heard me more than once tell others that on our journey away from our respective BPD r/s we will stumble & fall. We've all been there, you my friend like every other codependent or NON are the eternal optimist. We see the glass as half full ... .always!  This moment for you was no different, you've stumble on your journey & as I've pointed out before and this string of responses on this thread shows that the group will be here for you.

You are again trying to apply logic to a illogical Cluster B Mental Illness ... .case in point. you said, " And I know what we fought about, but I still don't know why it was an issue."  Remember from all the conversations in the group & more importantly all the references here & else where will tell you that BPD will never make sense for you, me or others. They live in their own world of whatever that is, no matter what to a NON it will never make sense. It will ALWAYS be frustrating to us as NONs because all we wanted to do is give them the thing they seek & that is unconditional love. Only they will never be able to fully appreciate it or understand it due to their Cluster B Mental Illness.

It's like trying to reason with a 3 year old toddler, they don't make sense to us but in their world it does. Many times you've read in these forums that someone with BPD & their behavior is very much like a 3 year old toddler, but unfortunately it's never going to change due to the physical defect of neurons & connections within their brain. It's not your fault OB & I really hope you believe this. YOU have to in order to find a better path to walk on your journey.

As promised before the group has picked you up, dusted you off and now the rest is up to you. Choose what path you continue on your journey wisely. Take the guidance given here and move forward. You got this ... .we got you.

J

[Oncebitten]

JQ

Thank you,  thank you all here.  I really owe you all so much.  I would gladly buy everyone of you your drink of choice and thank you all from the bottom of my heart.  You hit the nail on the head, the eternal optimist I am. The glass has always been half full. I always believed that we could fix any of our problems if we were both willing to work on them.  I knew I was, and I believed she was too.  But the r/s itself wasnt the problem.  I could fix every issue she had with me, but she would/will always find something new.  I should have seen the red flags long ago, how she told me that she just didnt know why her r/s failed.  how come men couldn't just love her for who she was.  I love her for who she is, but its not enough.  the goal line never stops moving.  Run as fast as I can... .I will never be enough, because no one will ever be enough.

[sad but wiser]

Easy to say, hard to do.  We all (most of us anyway) want a,soulmate... .someone who can give exactly what we need and to whom we can give effortlessly. 
  The pull of a BPD is their ability in this area.  They have radar!  At first it is incredible, how they seem to be exactly right.  But really, they are literally getting hooks into your soul.  They sink deep.  From then on you live and breathe for that relationship. Breaking feee is incredibly painful.  And you would never want to break free if that person was always that one who wished you well, who lived for you too.  But it isn't that way.  They have their own agenda, and it isn't the same as yours. 

[JQ]

OB,

You are welcome and I will gladly accept your offer of my drink of choice.   

If you want to get Freudian about being a Codependent aka NON, we are indeed the eternal optimist AND we are the perfectionist AND we are the Sheriff with the shiny badge & white hat along with being the Knight in Amor. BUUUT the question to you OB ... .is do YOU know why you are? What has caused you to be the perfectionist? The eternal optimist?  I could offer a suggestion or two or even tell you why I am but that would defeat the purpose of the question.

That question is part of why you're hear & hopefully seeking guidance from a good therapist knowledgeable in NON vs BPD r/s. This has always been about you and NOT your BPD. YOU need to get to a better place my friend for YOU. 

I would suggest getting up early to watch the sunrise tomorrow morning to put perspective on things. I watched just this morning, it's the 4th time this week watching the sun come up over the horizon. A dark sky with pin holes of light from billions of miles away giving way to the warm colors of yellow, orange as the sun starts it's day. Blues & pinks and brighter colors of the morning sun arriving quickly. I enjoy those with a good cup of coffee and I realize that things aren't so bad. I only have so many days on this planet and I want to watch as many of them as I can. I want to enjoy as many as I can with or without someone to share them with I'm going to enjoy everyday. I really wish I could share with all of you a picture of a morning here ... .it is truly amazing.

Get out for that walk and enjoy the fall colors, the smells, the changing temperatures. Go grab a simple bite to eat and take a friend with you just to enjoy the afternoon. You've come along way OB ... .continue to walk your path of knowledge & life experience.  You only have to be good enough for you. When a new r/s comes along AND YES IT WILL ... .you will be wiser. YOU will be happier with yourself, stronger and more confident with yourself and you're well on your way.

J

[Oncebitten]

JQ,

Name the drink and the place... .whiskey man myself.

I know why I am the way I am.  Upbringing, taught from a young age that this is what men do.  The shoulder responsibility, they take care of those weaker than them.  Especially women.  That code was instilled at a young age.  And in addition, hard work is rewarded and that is what people value.  So you find a woman who needs you and tells you she loves you.  Begs you to protect her and save her.  Its just like the drowning woman analogy. Im just the coast guard.  I have no idea why she keeps jumping in.  Just know its my duty to save her.

[Oncebitten]

JQ

Early morning man myself and yes there is nothing as powerful as a sunrise.  It does set life in perspective.   See it come up most mornings, but wont lie been a long time since I thought about it in the context you just gave.

[Curiously1]

You cannot fix her. You cannot fix anybody. It's a losing strategy as much as we would like to keep trying. You cannot control her or where the relationship will go and end. Triggers will always happen unfortunately and unpredictably and this is the way she chose to handle herself this time round. You can only ride the rollercoaster for as long as she lets you... and be prepared to jump off at anytime.

[Turkish]

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