Has anyone searched and read posts from BPD forums catered for BPD individuals?

[Curiously1]

I read one thread just now. Thought I might share.

As much as I am glad of the progress I have made so far in dettaching/moving on from my exBPDgf, I felt really sad all of a sudden after reading some of these pwBPD opinions. They were greatly thought-out and informative opinions of the topic at hand, supporting a devastated non who had on and off issues with his ex and undecided on what to do with himself. They were brutally honest with sharing what they thought and felt providing examples from their own past relationships. Some pwBPD even believed they had turned us or groomed us to be codependent and or make our codependent symptoms worse and feel bad that we keep coming back to them and experienced more and more pain. A shared pain nevertheless.

Here is the gist of one of the persons comments (rephrased):

"Be careful that you are not replacing "NC" with your ex with being on a BPD forum.  Sometimes I notice a temptation for nons to come here and be around us because that's what they think they miss. Their exes."

This one particularly made me think about my initial reaction/how I was feeling inside and why while reading. I was no doubt personalising their opinions as if it were coming from my own ex! It made me feel like I was communicating with my ex real-time and if she were ever to tell me the honest to god truth of what she thought and felt about me and what of her actions. Impossible I know to truly get that kind of closure from a BPD. I don't need it though. I've learnt plenty here and through NC itself. It gave me somewhat of an idea/feel of how I would really feel or be like if I ever bumped into her again. A little shock/anger. Sadness. Pain... .But not a longing to get back together anymore.

I am not really resenting my ex I realised after I took the chance to take a deep breath and calm myself again. I have let go of her. I suppose it was just the stories reminded me of particular moments in time and what that might have possibly meant from my exes perspective as their brutal honesty hit me a little. They are not exactly my ex, I know. I have been complete NC with her since our second break up.

Plenty of BPD inviduals encourage the same thing for us to stay NC and to get away from the addictive cycle. They seem to dread it too, hate that they've "conditioned" us and some of them feel so guilty when we accept them back. Some explained they've ended it because they felt guilty for the actions they've done in the past too and yeah, we remind them of what they've done to us. They remember. I won't share the opinions word for word because they may be triggering but it was interesting to read their perspective. They seem like a self-aware bunch.

... As much as we direct BPD individuals who find themselves here to try out forums catered mostly for them first, I just wanted to share that it can just be as triggering to read up on their forums about us nons too. I have never felt that way on here. I feel much safer here

Has anyone else read posts from other forums? If so, how did you feel reading from their perspective?

[hollow]

It's always prudent to remember that pwBPD have their lucid moments, and that they also may be telling other people stuff they want to hear. It's also good to remember that they are good at repeating information they've come across without necessarily having processed it in the way a non-BPD would. I am well aware that I may sound like I'm in a Philip K. Dick novel, where nothing is what it seems and paranoia is the main theme, but words are just words. If my sentences above don't strike a chord, then here are some keywords: pathological liars, manipulation, attempts to "redeem" themselves, control, parroting.

[Curiously1]

It's always prudent to remember that pwBPD have their lucid moments, and that they also may be telling other people stuff they want to hear. It's also good to remember that they are good at repeating information they've come across without necessarily having processed it in the way a non-BPD would. I am well aware that I may sound like I'm in a Philip K. Dick novel, where nothing is what it seems and paranoia is the main theme, but words are just words. If my sentences above don't strike a chord, then here are some keywords: pathological liars, manipulation, attempts to "redeem" themselves, control, parroting.

Ooh I see your point! Everyone wants to be seen and sound 'good'
From our perspective, many of us experience our BPDs blaming everything on us and then there was so much deceitfulness and manipulation involved, you know? Those past actions certainly should not be dismissed. That was a part of their nature... the disorder.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on it.

[Kelli Cornett]

BPD's are not NPD's or ASPD. They have empathy and compassion and many have self awareness.

As long as you are not overly emotionally involved with one, I think they can be okay.



Telling you what you want to hear is more of a NPD thing forsure.

[hollow]

BPD's are not NPD's or ASPD. They have empathy and compassion and many have self awareness.

As long as you are not overly emotionally involved with one, I think they can be okay.



Telling you what you want to hear is more of a NPD thing forsure.

My personal experience, the stories shared by people I know concerning their experiences and the information I've read on these boards compel me to take the opposite stance in every statement you have shared in your post quoted above, with the exception of your opening sentence. As regards to your opening sentence, however, no matter if the statement in and of itself is true the same way a lemon is not an orange, they do share common traits and usually overlap as well.

[Kelli Cornett]

BPD's are not NPD's or ASPD. They have empathy and compassion and many have self awareness.

As long as you are not overly emotionally involved with one, I think they can be okay.



Telling you what you want to hear is more of a NPD thing forsure.

My personal experience, the stories shared by people I know concerning their experiences and the information I've read on these boards compel me to take the opposite stance in every statement you have shared in your post quoted above, with the exception of your opening sentence. As regards to your opening sentence, however, no matter if the statement in and of itself is true the same way a lemon is not an orange, they do share common traits and usually overlap as well.

Well from my experiences, my mother is BPD and my father is NPD, and I've met both through out my life and have been groups with both. They don't lie like NPD's. You experience doesn't make you right either.

[hollow]

Nope, my experience doesn't make me right in your eyes, that much is true. Even if my experience did not make me right, reading on the collected traits found on these boards alone comes in contrast to your statements.

Reading your first thread and comparing it to your statements I can only come to the conclusion that we have a different definition of what empathy, compassion and self-awareness are; i.e. you seem to be very certain about your statements even when it appears that you're contradicting yourself, and I can only assume our definitions of certain words differ.

[fromheeltoheal]

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[hurting300]

Compassion? Nope haven't witnessed that one. Empathy? Whoa?

[Circle]

From my personal experience, I think the empathy is there; yet it is conditional empathy. Sort of like a baby is happy if they get everything they need. If they aren't getting what they need, the empathy can be completely gone.

Fascinating original post! I can see how it would be triggering to read that. It is heartbreaking. I'll try to avoid doing that. My skin is a little too thin. I can edge toward paranoia a little myself. Sometimes, I think worse of my dxBPDso, than they actually are. Then again, all you have to do are read some posts on here and you see the extremes they go to. Or, like in my instance, barring me from interacting with my loved ones; as a result of painting me evil.

Perhaps, we give pwBPD too much of the 'benefit of the doubt' at times. Which seems like a co-dependency thing. Thinking things like "They aren't that bad", as they exact actions against us, that are completely void of empathy. Actions that are blatantly brutal.

[SoMadSoSad]

BPDs are individuals with their own traits so people will have varying experiences with them.

[Turkish]

I recently reading one. They were slamming the existence of a sister forum for children of pwBPD, saying that it shouldn't be allowed to exist. The hatred (pain) was too much and I moved on. Being the child of a pwBPD I was triggered and tempted to respond,  but I have better things to do elsewhere.  Nothing positive could be gleaned by engaging that. 

[Curiously1]

@hollow@letitbe

Similar to what SoMadSoSad and Circle's thoughts I also think in a way that we should not forget they are all still different individuals and that their empathy for us is limited and conditional.

@letitbe223
I agree that NPD although sharing similar traits, expresses their pathology differently since well, they are another labelled cluster B type and not completely the same. That comes from your experience too dealing with your NPD father and BPD mother in your own life with why and how they lie and manipulate. I don't think anybody is wrong here but are looking at things differently and from their own perspectives and knowledge on BPD.

@fromheeltoheal
I agree and noted that if we have some differing opinions let's not argue but continue to discuss our viewpoints in a way that is still acknowledging and respecting the others.

@hurting300
For me personally, perhaps a conditional compassion and empathy for me when she felt her needs were being met. When did I see that? Only in the idealisation phase...

I have read and heard that BPD falls in a spectrum. I have also read that NPDs and ASPD particularly have a lot less to no ability for empathy in comparison to BPD despite how conditional the BPD's capabilities can be. The ones in the malignant end of the spectrum for BPD are ones that are going to share more of the nastier narcissistic traits. There is also the subtypes of BPD (Witch, Hermit, Waif, Queen) to look at and keep in mind. They can express one or more or all of those kind of characters above when you are dealing with them at the present moment. All of these explanations are debatable though.

@circle
totally how I feel too. A very conditional kind of empathy based on my experience too. It makes sense though in regards to their stunted emotional development compared to that of a child as young as 3.

@Turkish
I am sorry to hear that their threads are triggering for you too and especially that you are a child of pwBPD. You are right, after we read something triggering we should take a step back instead of impulsively responding and running high on our emotions. Let's continue to focus on the positive and helps us move forward rather than upset us so much...

I catch myself being like that for people who especially take the time and effort to express their point of view, whether they have BPD or not. Giving the benefit of the doubt appears like a codependent thing when we are eager and want to understand others as a way to better connect with them too... or even see them as decent people who have humanity.

Regardless if we think they are just parroting or less self-aware and able to truly reflect than us, I just had another additional thought. It's possibly easier for those, especially those who work on themselves and see improvements in therapy to yes, realise what they have caused even days/weeks/years after andto express their opinions/thoughts/experiences to strangers when there is no emotional attachment there on those boards. However they are known to personalise and rage about things online, don't get me wrong there.

That ties into wanting to be seen as a good person (most people, even we do), and I guess you could say fuelling their narcissistic supply for having their opinions and their support on the matter at hand. Their effort to give what I believe was good advice, whether they understood the advice they were giving out is a way for them to feel good about themselves too. Maybe this could also be looked at as a good thing?

They often feel misunderstood, correct? That may be motivation for them too and feel that they are the experts of the subject as they have first hand experience with BPD.

Have you heard of Ts who have PDs? Ideally if they are self-aware, wouldn't they be a good source of understanding and as well as healing? Therapists or other professional titles, my guess is that BPDs have the capability of dettaching too and using their own personal strengths to support others too...

What are your thoughts on this?
Do you think they are capable of supporting strangers better than those closest to them? I would assume so.

[Circle]

I think it's a possibility that therapists with BPD, who are high-functioning, could offer support to others, who they aren't in personal relationships with. However, from my personal experience, with my dxBPDso, I would doubt it; that's very limited experience though. My dxBPDso inevitably tangled with any person that they became involved with on a consistent level, past acquaintance. In fact, my s.o. was in a support group with others, based on relationship issues. My s.o., eventually stormed out and left, quitting the group, after a time, because of all the misunderstanding on behalf of other group members. I didn't doubt my s.o.'s perceptions of inequality and unfair treatment. However, I did doubt my s.o.'s ability to make the situation work, while dealing with hot-topics. Remember, another way of stating BPD, is 'Emotional Regulation Disorder'. If acting as therapists, I may question their ability to stay regulated, with interpersonal dynamics, that trigger emotions within them.

[Curiously1]

I think it's a possibility that therapists with BPD, who are high-functioning, could offer support to others, who they aren't in personal relationships with. However, from my personal experience, with my dxBPDso, I would doubt it; that's very limited experience though. My dxBPDso inevitably tangled with any person that they became involved with on a consistent level, past acquaintance. In fact, my s.o. was in a support group with others, based on relationship issues. My s.o., eventually stormed out and left, quitting the group, after a time, because of all the misunderstanding on behalf of other group members. I didn't doubt my s.o.'s perceptions of inequality and unfair treatment. However, I did doubt my s.o.'s ability to make the situation work, while dealing with hot-topics. Remember, another way of stating BPD, is 'Emotional Regulation Disorder'. If acting as therapists, I may question their ability to stay regulated, with interpersonal dynamics, that trigger emotions within them.

I have heard of it referred that way and debates whether it should be renamed to that instead of borderline. People who are especially unaware of what BPD is often get confused as to what the borderline title even means. That makes sense. Similar to you I cannot imagine my exBPDgf being capable of dealing with hot-topics, but she may surprise me in how she handles other areas of her life, who knows. I remember when we were together she was always addicted to her twitter account, tweeting her opinions on politics, feminism, technology, history and everything else under the sun. She would literally slam her keyboard and scream at the screen if there were more than a few disagreeing with her opinions. She would then run to me looking at me with sad eyes like a little girl as if she is dobbing on the school bullies and have me comfort/save her.

All I know is everyone wears a kind of mask when out in public and in professional settings and the consequences of perhaps knowing they could get fired for bad behaviour may have them think more than twice in how they choose to react. I don't know what helps them stay regulated though and in any job really that is dealing with relating to people and inevitable conflicts. Perhaps plotting to have the colleagues they do not like fired and making complaints. As awful as it sounds I know it is probably what what they are typically like in the workplace.

My exBPDgf is intelligent however cannot handle disagreements and take it all as personal attacks. She is just finishing her second degree and I wonder how she is going to be as much of success in her career life. She certainly excels study-wise. I know of a BPD girl who has graduated with a Degree in Psychology but from what I know is not looking for work as a clinical psychologist as she cannot cope. All I know is she goes to therapy a lot and narcotics anonymous on a weekly basis.

[Curiously1]

Anybody know how their BPDs handle work environments? Could they keep a steady job? Did they keep switching? Hopefully I am not getting too off-topic... I am sure all of this is related to their ability to support others. Stick to the main topic too please and your experiences on other forums (What I started with)

[Reforming]

Hi Curiously

I have visited BPD forums. I came upon them first when I researching object constancy and out of sight out of mind

I found their perspective on how they experienced this eye opening   and ultimately very enlightening. It made sense of things that I struggled to understand and even believe. It helped me to accept the reality of the disorder and process what had happened. Radical Acceptance

Quite a few of the BPD posters expressed grief and frustration at their own behaviour and their inability to change it. Some blamed and repudiated NONs for their harsh judgement and lack of understanding. Others were more enlightened.

When I explored some of the other threads it seemed clear that there is a broad spectrum of attitude and behaviour among pwBPD. Some were very self aware - others were not. They would probably make the same observation about this board. When you read the accounts of failed relationships on both boards it's clear that both the pwBPD and the NON feel misunderstood and betrayed. Most of the BPD posters I read seemed to want to find a way forward. Sadly very few were getting the therapy they needed and were struggling. There but for the grace of god go we... .

My ex holds down a high powered job and is very successful in her professional life. I know from my long relationship with her that she struggles to relate to her family, has no real close friends (huge trust issues) and suffers from a range of BPD symptoms but she generally manages to hide or at least minimise these issues from others where there is no real intimacy involved.

I think within certain parameters friendship with pwBPD is possible. But the disorder is triggered by intimacy so when a pwBPD gets close to another, particularly in a romantic relationship things can deteriorate pretty fast.

The question is whether the NON has realistic expectations of what a relationship with pwBPD entails. We're talking about a serious mental illness after all. Depending on your personality and your own needs its perfectly understandable and healthy to decide that this kind of relationship is not right for you. But highlighting a pwBPD's deficits and getting angry at them for failing to meet what can be unrealistic expectations results in a lot of hurt and confusion on both sides.

And yes I'm sure that there are therapists with PDs.

Reforming

[enlighten me]

Ive read a number of BPD sites over the years. Some I have found informative others just bonkers.

I think there is a lot of honesty on them probably due to the annonimity.

My personal opinion is pwBPD are capable of remorse and can be very aware of their issues. The problem we see with them not admitting things to us is due to their guilt and shame. They dont want us to see how they see themselves. A lot of the things they do is impulse driven. A lot is due to being overly sensitive of critisism.

[C.Stein]

They have empathy and compassion and many have self awareness.

I would agree with this with one caveat.  It isn't so much a question of whether or not a borderline has these characteristics, but rather if they can consistently express and act on them.

My ex is capable of all these with one important exception ... .when there is emotional risk involved.  I have witnessed her ability to be self-aware but that awareness is fleeting and therefore meaningless as she is incapable of acting on that self-awareness.  The same goes for empathy and compassion.  I have seen her express both outside of our relationship, but when it came to me she couldn't show or express either one of them because the emotional risk was too high.

[Circle]

"My ex is capable of all these with one important exception ... .when there is emotional risk involved." C.Stein

Great point. I really saw this manifest in not being able to take the emotional leap/risk involved in simple honesty.

[kc sunshine]

I found reading the book The Buddha and the Borderline to be similarly enlightening -- it was recommended to me by my ex's ex and the author is exceptionally self-aware and frank. Despite being in massive treatment, though, her relationships all tank (she's the one that ends them all).

[neverloveagain]

Ask yourselves what your addicted too. And what need this dissection serves.

[Curiously1]

It made sense of things that I struggled to understand and even believe. It helped me to accept the reality of the disorder and process what had happened. Radical Acceptance

When I explored some of the other threads it seemed clear that there is a broad spectrum of attitude and behaviour among pwBPD. Some were very self aware - others were not. Most of the BPD posters I read seemed to want to find a way forward. Sadly very few were getting the therapy they needed and were struggling. There but for the grace of god go we... .

Reforming, thanks for sharing what you have found from looking at other threads. Radical acceptance is really important and I am glad that reading their perspective was beneficial for you to getthere. I agree that everyone is at different stages of their understanding of things and recovery BPD and nons alike. Some of us are still bitter, some of us have found a way to move on from the hurt, betrayal etc.
It is a shame that some of them are not seeking therapy. Did any of them explain why?

My ex holds down a high powered job and is very successful in her professional life. I know from my long relationship with her that she struggles to relate to her family, has no real close friends (huge trust issues) and suffers from a range of BPD symptoms but she generally manages to hide or at least minimise these issues from others where there is no real intimacy involved.

the disorder is triggered by intimacy

The question is whether the NON has realistic expectations of what a relationship with pwBPD entails. highlighting a pwBPD's deficits and getting angry at them for failing to meet what can be unrealistic expectations results in a lot of hurt and confusion on both sides.

And yes I'm sure that there are therapists with PDs.

That is what I imagine is my exes potential when she graduates. That although her interpersonal stuff is not as good. My ex does not have a lot of close friends either and is mostly cut off from her own family. I know how much she cares about study/work.
I agree. We shouldn't expect a pwBPD to never show symptoms of BPD ever again or change drastically to how we wish they would act/be if we chose to stay. Realistic expectations in any relationship is important.

[bestintentions]

I have witnessed her ability to be self-aware but that awareness is fleeting and therefore meaningless as she is incapable of acting on that self-awareness.

This hit home for me in a big way as I witnessed it right at the end.  I had a T on the phone because she got to that point where therapy seemed to be right on the cusp of happening... .and then crushed me by doing a complete 180 and started engaging other men immediately afterwards.  (Like 15 minutes later).  I've seen this happen in other instances that didn't involve infidelity and was able to shrug it off somehow, but I've found this to be probably the hardest thing to deal with in my life.  That someone could see what they were doing yet just couldn't face the pain of dealing with it and making it right.  Heartbreaking.

[Curiously1]

@englightenme

Yeah it's up for us to figure whether what we are reading is informative or plain hate or misinformation and that takes time to sort through. They know right from wrong... Guilt and shame makes it hard for them to own up you are right. They are very sensitive and assume the worst and react to opposing opinions as a form of rejection and attack to their core self.

@C.Stein
'If emotional risk is involved'
There could be many examples for that during the relationship and once we've triggered them and we are no longer perfect their distrust skyrockets and all they can think of is a way out than discussing stuff
Speaking to strangers they would assume has little risk? Anonymity, I guess.


@Circle
Why is it so so hard to be honest? I know it had to do with rejection and not wanting to own negative stuff or say sorry but yknow' it would be so much easier if the norm for them was that they believed that lying and manipulating made things much worse (which it does) for them and avoid doing so out of I guess, fear of being left. So they become SUPER honest. Instead they do the opposite of that over and over again and continue their cycle with hardly any change. If only they had better experiences I guess in their childhoods with telling the truth.


@KC sunshine
I have heard of that book. I have yet to read it. It sounds good

@neverloveagain
What do you mean by dissection serves?

@bestintentions
They change their minds so quickly. Mine was desperate for therapy at one stage but I think it was because she wanted to keep me locked in as she had nobody and well, I was still idealised at that point. She did say she knew something was wrong with her and that was a little bit of self-awareness there. Explaining that she is having enough of herself and may need to see a T again. I wasn't the problem or to blame while she was in idealisation. Anyway once everything settled she forgot and did not make an effort to do book and did ask me to help her book but I was too busy. I didn't bother since things were good for a while but hoped she would do it herself. Eventually decided that it is just better to find a replacement. I could no longer get her to consider therapy during devaluation. It had Nothing to do with her wanting it for herself or bettering our relationship. A sudden change of mind and doing something requiring not as much emotional risk or effort to change.