Did your ex have what you need?

[joeramabeme]

I started with a new T and was providing some relationship history and the T said; "sounds like she doesn't have what you need".  I replied that it was just the opposite; she has what I need/want but wouldn't accept what I had to give to her in the marriage. 

The T repeated; "so she did not have what you needed".  When I asked the T if she did not understand my prior statement the T clarified; I needed my ex to be open to receive what I had to offer and she frequently wasn't.  So for that reason - I was not getting what I needed. 

Interesting twist to how I have often framed the marriage being, she has what I want/need but the complete picture is; I need to give of myself too as that is part of valuing a person.

[once removed]

that is an interesting twist that i think speaks to radical acceptance, or just accepting others for who they are in general; flaws and limitations and all.

others can meet our differing needs. some friends make us laugh while some dont. some are a good shoulder to cry on while others arent.

my ex in many ways had what i think i needed at the time. id had a string of short lived, immature relationships; this was really my first "adult" relationship. spending nights together, exploring our sexuality, trips together, being buddies, and having "adult" problems, that sort of thing. while it wasnt ideal and was not sustainable, it was a heck of an experience, and i learned a lot from it. it taught me a great deal about who i am, and how i function in relationships, the good and the bad. i guess when i say it wasnt sustainable, it ultimately did not meet my needs, but it met some important ones, otherwise i believe id not have stayed.

i dont completely follow your last statement. are you suggesting that you were not giving of yourself to her, or to yourself?

[C.Stein]

Interesting twist to how I have often framed the marriage being, she has what I want/need but the complete picture is; I need to give of myself too as that is part of valuing a person.

Love is a two way street in that to fully experience it we have to be able to give and receive it equally.

[hergestridge]

I think I knew what I wanted at the time, but not what I needed. I needed tenderness, warmth and sexual tension. I got none of that. I just wanted a girlfriend. Never imagined I was in a position to chose one.

[bestintentions]

JRB,

I've been pondering this on and off all day trying to formulate a decent response.  Wants and needs are separate things but both are referred to in the original post and it doesn't appear that you've differentiated.  Does my stbxw have what I want?  In very many ways, yes.  This has been probably the most significant hurdle to get recovery started.  After being together as long as we were, plenty went right.  Having said that, how would you define a need?  Reciprocal love maybe?  Pretty subjective, as you know.  I know now that I wasn't getting that reciprocation the way I wanted but I was filling the void with other things like having very loving friends and a great r/s with my kids.  I've overlooked plenty as has every caretaker here.  I'm still piecing together how I managed to stay sane (mostly) throughout my r/s.  If it hadn't been for her infidelities, she may have not felt as ashamed and walked out and I probably never would have found this site.  A definite progression through impulses - food, spending and ultimately men.  But I digress... .want yes, need no.

bi

[Turkish]

I needed her to be an adult,  which she only partially projected.  I believed the outside,  the facade,  while ignoring the inner reality of who she was,  even though in many ways she openly communicated being an abandoned child. If I'm honest,  I "played God" no less than she did,  wanting to have a family and kids no matter the partner.  We each provided what we needed from each other at the time. 

[FallBack!Monster]

 He brought nothing to the table but his facade. He wasn't good laying down the pipe either. He got me with the illusion of spiritual intimacy. Like he was my friend and we shared intimate secrets. Only God knows the truth and what his true intentions with me was. The answer is NO. Nothing that I needed. I didn't want to be alone but I always was, like I am now. that's why I think I was with him.

[C.Stein]

Does my stbxw have what I want?  In very many ways, yes.  This has been probably the most significant hurdle to get recovery started.

I will agree on all counts.  My ex did provide what I wanted in some very significant and meaningful ways, in others not at all.  I 100% agree this has been a significant hurdle in letting go.

The question now is how to move past this?

[valet]

In some ways, yes. In others, no.

I think the big thing that relationship served to teach me was that I had to figure out what I wanted in another person. I've always been really relaxed about dating and don't see it as an imperative. But I was too relaxed—didn't know what I would accept and what I wouldn't. Cast the net wide, but be more cautious and aware of the dynamic at hand.

It's kind of a paradox. She had what I didn't need, which taught me what I did. So did she have what I needed? Who's to say?

[bestintentions]

The question now is how to move past this?

To be honest... once I'm as far removed as you are, I hope to not be asking myself this question.  If I still am but feel I'm progressing, that's OK too.  I want to be OK with me and view what happened and with a historical perspective rather than just an emotional one.  Good times, bad times, a learning experience.  After all... .isn't that what any of us can hope for?

[C.Stein]

The question now is how to move past this?

To be honest... once I'm as far removed as you are, I hope to not be asking myself this question.  If I still am but feel I'm progressing, that's OK too.  I want to be OK with me and view what happened and with a historical perspective rather than just an emotional one.  Good times, bad times, a learning experience.  After all... .isn't that what any of us can hope for?

Yes, a place of indifference where emotions are neutral would be nice.  It is hard coming to terms with certain issues certainly.  I fully believe if I were 15-20 years younger I would have been long over this relationship by now.  At 14+ months though I still am impacted by it all.

[bestintentions]

Yes, a place of indifference where emotions are neutral would be nice.  It is hard coming to terms with certain issues certainly.  I fully believe if I were 15-20 years younger I would have been long over this relationship by now.  At 14+ months though I still am impacted by it all.

Well, know that your insight has helped me and countless others.  It is very much appreciated.  You are giving back to humanity in the truest sense of love.  That may not be pertinent regarding the loss of your relationship but it shows me your true character.  I have no doubt you will move past this.

[C.Stein]

I have no doubt you will move past this.

Eventually ... .we all will.    

That is the thing about time ... .like looking at your past in the rear view mirror as you drive along the road of life.  It gets smaller and smaller until there is nothing left but a faded memory.

[joeramabeme]

Yes, a place of indifference where emotions are neutral would be nice.  It is hard coming to terms with certain issues certainly.  I fully believe if I were 15-20 years younger I would have been long over this relationship by now.  At 14+ months though I still am impacted by it all.

C. Stein, Agree with your comment.  I too am around 14+ months and it is harder and I also think it is a function of being older and having dated enough to know what works for me.  Too bad the last pieces could not be worked through.

[joeramabeme]

JRB,

I've been pondering this on and off all day trying to formulate a decent response.  Wants and needs are separate things but both are referred to in the original post and it doesn't appear that you've differentiated.  Does my stbxw have what I want?  In very many ways, yes.  This has been probably the most significant hurdle to get recovery started.  After being together as long as we were, plenty went right.  Having said that, how would you define a need?  Reciprocal love maybe?  Pretty subjective, as you know.  I know now that I wasn't getting that reciprocation the way I wanted but I was filling the void with other things like having very loving friends and a great r/s with my kids.  I've overlooked plenty as has every caretaker here.  I'm still piecing together how I managed to stay sane (mostly) throughout my r/s.  If it hadn't been for her infidelities, she may have not felt as ashamed and walked out and I probably never would have found this site.  A definite progression through impulses - food, spending and ultimately men.  But I digress... .want yes, need no.

bi

Hey BestIntentions

To clarify, what I wanted and need is a life partner that I could identify with and that we shared life goals and values.  What I needed as part of that is someone who also could accept what I had to offer; love and sincerity and wisdom etc. While she could acknowledge those parts of me, she could never hold it ina comfortable place. 

I keep going back to the same concept now when I think about it all; she did not feel safe being open with me.  She could force herself to at moments but would always regress back to feeling unsafe.  My gradual turning black was a process of diminishing moments of her feeling I was trustworthy.  Once the trust was gone, there was no value to what I had and she could not open up to me and that was needed and wanted.

[valet]

The question now is how to move past this?

To be honest... once I'm as far removed as you are, I hope to not be asking myself this question.  If I still am but feel I'm progressing, that's OK too.  I want to be OK with me and view what happened and with a historical perspective rather than just an emotional one.  Good times, bad times, a learning experience.  After all... .isn't that what any of us can hope for?

Yes, a place of indifference where emotions are neutral would be nice.  It is hard coming to terms with certain issues certainly.  I fully believe if I were 15-20 years younger I would have been long over this relationship by now.  At 14+ months though I still am impacted by it all.

This is interesting for me to read, and maybe I have a valuable insight to offer. Not to thread hi-jack, of course. And also not to claim that I own your experience. I surely don't.

I'm 26 and almost a year and a half later I'm still affected at times. So don't be so hard on yourself. I think the effect these things have on us is about the same no matter our age. It might be helpful in the future to think of it this way.

[jhkbuzz]

I keep going back to the same concept now when I think about it all; she did not feel safe being open with me.  She could force herself to at moments but would always regress back to feeling unsafe. 

Have you figured out that her "feeling unsafe" had nothing to do with you? My ex was obsessed with feeling safe. We were together as long as we were because she felt "safe" with me... .for a while. She thinks partners can provide her with a feeling of safety, but the lack resides within her, and always returns in the end. And then she projects outwards into someone else - so she can believe that THAT is where the problem resides.

[bestintentions]

valet - so you were 1 when I met my stbx 

jrb, I'm still hung up on the wants/needs thing.  I need food, shelter and water.  The rest are wants.  Is this flexible view of mine a foundation of my caretaking tendencies?  Perhaps.  Regardless, this thread is rife with speculation on what our pwBPD were thinking at various times when in reality - we just don't know.  THAT'S why I'm starting to see this for what it was and just give in to it.  Trust is built by reinforcing beliefs.  We nons did the reinforcing on our own without proper evidence because it's what we wanted so badly.  So the trust was perhaps there but we created it.  It's just an opportunity to look at ourselves and ask why we would do this?  Just another step to acceptance. 

[C.Stein]

I'm 26 and almost a year and a half later I'm still affected at times. So don't be so hard on yourself. I think the effect these things have on us is about the same no matter our age. It might be helpful in the future to think of it this way.

Age is only one of many factors for me personally.  The impact of abuse and loss of a loved one is a very subjective one IMO, but there are some shared similarities as well.  I could expand on these thoughts but not in this thread.

So the trust was perhaps there but we created it.  It's just an opportunity to look at ourselves and ask why we would do this?  Just another step to acceptance.  

Trust ... .I gave it to her freely because I believed in her.  It was really the only thing that kept me going throughout most of my relationship, the thought my trust was well placed.  This was not only a corner stone of the relationship for me, it was the entire foundation.  When she shattered this trust, the sense of betrayal and her unwillingness/inability to hold herself accountable destroyed me.  I think this betrayal of the trust I gave her has been the single most difficult thing for me to accept and come to terms with.

[Sadly]

Me also C Stein, I trusted implicitly and believed it was reciprocated. Through things in my past I hadn't trusted anyone since I was a little girl. I trusted and believed in my ex with all my heart and soul and laid bare my vulnerability trusting I was loved and understood. What he did with it nearly killed me. I will never trust again and no I don't want treatment for it, I will never trust again, end of.