Opening Pandora's box

[Depression = 72% of members]

Being perfectly honest, I am depressed at this point. I suspected it was coming, but it has hit me harder than before. At this point, I can't tell if it's just the fact that I miss her (no contact for a month) or if is the deep introspection I have been doing lately. It is very clear that I am codependent. And, I think it has been situational with two significant relationships, both of which occurred after therapy for being a real butthead. I used to be a control freak and now it seems I have swung fully in the other direction.

Before I started no contact, we discussed the idea of attending counseling together. The goal was to see if we were just fighting something inevitable or if this relationship was saveable. I decided to go full no contact instead. Now, I am second guessing that decision. I have sent her a message to see if therapy is an option still. My justification was that either way, therapy could be good for us, or at the very least me.

Now I am wondering if that was a mistake. I am really just looking for support. I know folks on this board have experienced what I am feeling.

Thanks for reading.

[anothercasualty]

Being perfectly honest, I am depressed at this point. I suspected it was coming, but it has hit me harder than before. At this point, I can't tell if it's just the fact that I miss her (no contact for a month) or if is the deep introspection I have been doing lately. It is very clear that I am codependent. And, I think it has been situational with two significant relationships, both of which occurred after therapy for being a real butthead. I used to be a control freak and now it seems I have swung fully in the other direction.

Before I started no contact, we discussed the idea of attending counseling together. The goal was to see if we were just fighting something inevitable or if this relationship was saveable. I decided to go full no contact instead. Now, I am second guessing that decision. I have sent her a message to see if therapy is an option still. My justification was that either way, therapy could be good for us, or at the very least me.

Now I am wondering if that was a mistake. I am really just looking for support. I know folks on this board have experienced what I am feeling.

Thanks for reading.

[C.Stein]

AC,

It is natural for people to question their decisions, especially when they involve strong emotions.  What does your "gut" tell you?

It is very clear that I am codependent.

This is the more important thing to work on IMO.  With her or not, this is something that is holding you back from finding a healthy relationship.  To that end, do you want to discuss how you are codependent and ways you can work on being less so?

[anothercasualty]

AC,

It is natural for people to question their decisions, especially when they involve strong emotions.  What does your "gut" tell you?

It is very clear that I am codependent.

This is the more important thing to work on IMO.  With her or not, this is something that is holding you back from finding a healthy relationship.  To that end, do you want to discuss how you are codependent and ways you can work on being less so?

C Stein,

My gut is telling me this is not how a relationship is supposed to work. We have recycled a few times and it's not been healthy for either of us. My suspicion is my codependency with her keeps me stuck. I seem to have a very difficult time closing the door firmly.

I have no issues discussing why I sense I am codependent with her. The first few months of the relationship seemed wonderful. The best I had ever experienced. I realize that is a BPD trait and I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. Since the first few months, I have been chasing the high of what that time period was like. I have allowed her needs to overrun my needs in the here and now, hoping that once her current crisis has ended, we will be able to get back there again. First, it was issues with family, then issues with work, then issues with a new job. The crisis never stopped coming. And I allowed my needs to take a back seat while working through those situations.

Then, I started enforcing boundaries and it seemed like the fights came more often and nothing was ever resolved. Compromise did not seem to be in her vocabulary, until I was walking out the door. Is this normal BPD behavior?

Focusing on me, this codependency seemed to be only with two particular women, and both had BPD tendencies. Is it possible to be triggered codependent when you are with someone with BPD? I don't feel like a codependent in most areas of my life. I am assertive and confident at work, school, and in my hobbies. I am happy traveling alone and exploring the world. So it seems to only be in particular romantic relationships. Does that make sense?

[C.Stein]

I have allowed her needs to overrun my needs in the here and now, hoping that once her current crisis has ended, we will be able to get back there again. First, it was issues with family, then issues with work, then issues with a new job. The crisis never stopped coming. And I allowed my needs to take a back seat while working through those situations.

I can understand this all too well.  I did the same and it impacted me in ways I never really understood when I was in the middle of it all.  For me I held onto hope, not hope to get back to idealization, but rather hope that once she stabilized her own life that all the things she was doing that pushed me away would stop.  This was a delusional hope.

Then, I started enforcing boundaries and it seemed like the fights came more often and nothing was ever resolved. Compromise did not seem to be in her vocabulary, until I was walking out the door. Is this normal BPD behavior?

Push/Pull behavior is very common with borderlines.  When she fears abandonment she will pull you back, engulfment fear and she will push you away.  Boundaries are very important for our own personal protection.  I see boundaries as being of two type.  Those that we draw in sand and those we draw in stone.  The ones in sand are the hardest to enforce because they are flexible and it is all too easy to allow it to flex to far.

Focusing on me, this codependency seemed to be only with two particular women, and both had BPD tendencies. Is it possible to be triggered codependent when you are with someone with BPD? I don't feel like a codependent in most areas of my life. I am assertive and confident at work, school, and in my hobbies. I am happy traveling alone and exploring the world. So it seems to only be in particular romantic relationships. Does that make sense?

The expression of personality traits will change with the circumstances.  Relationships with borderlines will tend to bring codependency traits to the surface.  That said, the tendencies are still there regardless of them being expressed or not, which means you should still take a hard look at why these traits surface under certain conditions.

[anothercasualty]

I can understand this all too well.  I did the same and it impacted me in ways I never really understood when I was in the middle of it all.  For me I held onto hope, not hope to get back to idealization, but rather hope that once she stabilized her own life that all the things she was doing that pushed me away would stop.  This was a delusional hope.

I think you did a better job of stating what I meant. And, I further suspect my hope is delusional as well. Sigh.

Push/Pull behavior is very common with borderlines.  When she fears abandonment she will pull you back, engulfment fear and she will push you away.  Boundaries are very important for our own personal protection.  I see boundaries as being of two type.  Those that we draw in sand and those we draw in stone.  The ones in sand are the hardest to enforce because they are flexible and it is all too easy to allow it to flex to far.

I certainly get the push/pull, I guess I didn't think of this as an extension of push/pull. That makes sense though. I think she felt like I was one foot out the door and was grasping to not let go. And, at this point with her, my boundaries are almost all in sand. I broke no contact when I said I would leave her be, if she left me be. That was not good.

The expression of personality traits will change with the circumstances.  Relationships with borderlines will tend to bring codependency traits to the surface.  That said, the tendencies are still there regardless of them being expressed or not, which means you should still take a hard look at why these traits surface under certain conditions.

I do hear you. I went to a counselor many times and I always asked him if he thought I was codependent. He always said no. He just thought I had hitched my wagon to the wrong horse and was in over my head. I have setup an appointment with someone new to explore this area all over again.

I really am trying to find the "me" component in this situation.

[heartandwhole]

I don't feel like a codependent in most areas of my life. I am assertive and confident at work, school, and in my hobbies. I am happy traveling alone and exploring the world. So it seems to only be in particular romantic relationships. Does that make sense?

Hi anothercasualty,

I resonate very much with what you say here. I, too, often feel confident and have good boundaries in non-romantic relationships and professionally. My caretaking/rescuing behaviors tend to come out much more strongly in familial/romantic relationships. With pwBPD, they reached an all time peak, in my view.    And I do think his having BPD played a role. In my opinion, these coping strategies have been in me from long ago—learned in my childhood to cope with dysfunction—and the relationship with pwBPD, which evoked big FOO issues from my past, was fertile ground for them to come out swinging again.

Thankfully, that experience has allowed me to learn better ways of coping with issues that occur in close relationships. I'm sure I won't be perfect in my execution of new tools and behaviors, but having grieved and learned, I trust that there are inner resources available to me that will help when things go wonky. I asked my therapist once if she thought I could handle whatever painful stuff will come up in future relationships, and she said "Heartandwhole, I know you can. The more important question is, do you?"

heartandwhole

[anothercasualty]

 In my opinion, these coping strategies have been in me from long ago—learned in my childhood to cope with dysfunction—and the relationship with pwBPD, which evoked big FOO issues from my past, was fertile ground for them to come out swinging again.

Thankfully, that experience has allowed me to learn better ways of coping with issues that occur in close relationships. I'm sure I won't be perfect in my execution of new tools and behaviors, but having grieved and learned, I trust that there are inner resources available to me that will help when things go wonky. I asked my therapist once if she thought I could handle whatever painful stuff will come up in future relationships, and she said "Heartandwhole, I know you can. The more important question is, do you?"

heartandwhole

Could you share some of ways you learned to better cope with issues? You sound like you have progressed through the tunnel and are out the other side.

[heartandwhole]

Could you share some of ways you learned to better cope with issues? You sound like you have progressed through the tunnel and are out the other side.

Hi anothercasualty,

Many of us here are on the other side, so to speak, and you'll get there, too.  My reply would be too long to list all the things I've been learning, but one thing that really helped is step one on the Detachment Leads to Freedom lessons (right sidebar------>: feeling my feelings. It sounds so simple, but it can actually be quite difficult and a profound game-changer. Many of us are so used to taking action to distract ourselves from feeling anything at all, or to try to change an emotion that feels uncomfortable to something else. It's normal and sometimes necessary... .

And yet, giving myself space to feel and accept difficult emotions with compassion and without judgement helped me not only recover from the breakup with pwBPD, but also to deal with other issues with my family and just in life in general. For example, it's hard for me to accept feeling very vulnerable or powerless, so when those emotions come up for me, I have to work at being extra nonjudgmental and gentle with myself. Does that make sense?

How do you deal with your extra difficult emotions, anothercasualty?

heartandwhole

[anothercasualty]

How do you deal with your extra difficult emotions, anothercasualty?

Great question. I tended to think that I was working through them as they arose. But I did realize yesterday that I might "stop them short", if that makes any sense. I am not sure that I was allowing them to be fully let out as I was frankly very afraid of the amount of anger pent up there. The truth of the matter is I am downright angry. In the past, anger has not been a good emotion for me so I tend to not let it out. Maybe that is part of my issue here.

This breakup has caused many other feelings/thoughts to come to the surface, many of them uncomfortable. I am trying to let them come out fully before moving on.

Ugh.

[heartandwhole]

I am not sure that I was allowing them to be fully let out as I was frankly very afraid of the amount of anger pent up there. The truth of the matter is I am downright angry. In the past, anger has not been a good emotion for me so I tend to not let it out. Maybe that is part of my issue here.

I get what you mean here. Anger has definitely been a challenge for me as well, so I can understand the impulse to "keep it in check."  I think it's very normal to feel a bit afraid of pent-up anger, especially when it has been hard to access in the past.

What unmet need do you think this anger might be reflecting in you, anothercasualty? 

heartandwhole

[anothercasualty]

What unmet need do you think this anger might be reflecting in you, anothercasualty? 

heartandwhole

I am angry that she didnt leave me be last time. I am angry that she came back, said all the right things, and failed to follow through as miserably as the first time. I am angry that I allowed it even when every friend said run. Not sure who am I angrier at.

Ultimately, I think the anger reflects my disappointment in myself. I am fairly book smart, but my relationship smarts don't warrant a passing grade at the moment.

Does that answer the question you asked, Heartandwhole?

[heartandwhole]

Ultimately, I think the anger reflects my disappointment in myself. I am fairly book smart, but my relationship smarts don't warrant a passing grade at the moment.

I hear you. I got angry, too, when pwBPD seemed to want (again) what I wanted, only to change his mind (again) as our plans started to become reality, at least in my mind. In hindsight, I felt shocked at how willing I was to abandon myself in order to keep the relationship going for awhile.

I hope you'll be gentle with yourself as you explore all your feelings. We often use outdated coping strategies, picked up in childhood, to manage these kinds of emotionally loaded relationships. They were survival oriented back in the day; now as adults they are inappropriate at best, destructive at worst.

Have you seen this article? It really helped me understand what I was dealing with when I first got here:

Surviving a Break-up when Your Partner has Borderline Personality

Let yourself grieve this significant loss, and take good care of yourself while you process things (enough sleep, good food, exercise). You are doing all the right things: seeing a counselor, reaching out for support, looking at your role in the relationship dynamic. I have no doubt that you can come out of this a stronger, wiser, and happier person. One step at a time. It will get better.

Keep writing and sharing. It helps us all. 

heartandwhole