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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Has anyone dealt with a childs therapist who refuses to communicate?  (Read 439 times)
soundofmusicgirl
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« on: October 25, 2016, 06:32:33 AM »

My stepsons recently started therapy (finally!). uBPDxw found the counsilor for them, after she rejected the apointment that my husband made at the same office that evaluated my stepsons.

The new T has seen the boys for two weeks. One hour each week, both of them together with BPDxw in the room. My husband tried to get in touch with the T via email and phone. But nothting... crickets. So he called again and this time T called him back saying that she waited for uBPDxw to sign a release form so she could talk to my husband.

Fine... DH told her that it was nice of uBPDxw but unneccssary as he has joint legal and physical custody.
Then the T went into a 15min rant about how all of it is my DHs fault and how for the sake of the children he needs to work together with uBPDxw. My DH tried to say something, but the T would not let him get in a word edgewise.

We were speechless. First of all, I find it very unprofessional of a T to make such assessments after having seen the boys for 2 hours. And then of course isn't a good T supposed to listen and then talk? Of course I am 150% sure that BPDxw fed the T some good lies and T fully believed her.

My DH sent the T after that two very long emails with documentation attached showing the reason why things are the way they are and that he has tried to work together and cooperate with uBPDxw but there is absolutely no willingness on her side.

That was 3 weeks ago. We have not heard a word ever since. My DH is, understandably, scared to call the T again, wondering what rant he will now hear. On the other hand of course he wants to hear what is going on.

How have you dealt with such a T in the past?
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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2016, 07:54:08 AM »

Yea, I had this... .
(It was my ex with traits and his exWBPD)

Mom had told therapist dad was harmful and that he had no rights over the child in any respect.  Therapist essentially felt to hear Dad was not legal.  (We had to guess at this and what Mom likely said as therapist literally never answered a single call until we provided documents forcing her to)

We had to supply the therapist the court document that stated otherwise and a note from our lawyer spelling out that the therapist needed to speak to Dad so she was not violating his rights.

Unfortunately, Mom only took child to therapy to make a case against Dad to take child back after Mom abandoned her, but literally believed child was "taken from her."  So therapist had heard all kinds of the usual false stuff Mom was spewing constantly in her alienation tactics.  When Therapist met with the two of us, Dad and I, she shortly after, sent a letter removing herself from the case.  I assume after meeting Dad, she realized Mom had manipulated her, and that Dad was not the monster he was portrayed as, and T maybe changed her mind on going to court for Mom, maybe realized she had screwed up.  She had to know Mom was using her to prep a court case because Mom was unable to restrain her mouth, felt it her duty to proclaim such things, that child needed to be removed from our care, she told another therapist she fired.  Therapist told us she pestered him time and again about his language, how he would speak on Her behalf, when she would force him to court.  He let us know, she barely would listen to the fact that bringing him to court would NOT help HER case.  That concept escaped her delusional thoughts of gathering a group of people to speak out against us.  She couldn't grasp when T said that him in court would not promote her view.

I didn't blame the T who wouldn't speak to us.  If a parent has said something to the affect that another person is behaving harmful and illegally towards gaining access to the child or aspects of the child's care, I don't blame her if she refuses to speak or meet without a court document of some sort.
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soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2016, 08:16:39 AM »

Thanks. We actually did send the court order to the T, so that she did not have to rely on DH's word. We also provided her with an email from the (well known) child psychologist that evaluated the boys this spring (not part of any court process) and shared with us that uBPDxw asked her to completely change the visitation schedule to cancel all visitation in our home and that she (the psychologist) so no reason to do so.
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2016, 08:38:38 AM »

Wow!
That is awful!

Only thing I can say is that when providing persons with the court document only, they could not interpret the real meaning.  Maybe it is not spelled out clear enough for her to grasp the meaning and intent? 

I know for school, we had trouble because the school had their policies, and they differed from our court documents.  We were SUPPOSED to separately contact the school for information sharing and school was supposed to answer us individually.  But school had a policy that in cases of divorced parents that they would only inform one party, the party to where child lived, and then that party had responsibility to communicate to other parent.  Which made no sense to us.  But I can see how this protected the school.  We did show court documents, they still refused to communicate to both parents separately.  I am sure we could have gotten a legally binding document compelling them, but we didn't take things there.

Maybe try a letter from your lawyer which explains their responsibility under the law and how it relates to this situation?  (If you haven't)

Some people need their legal role spelled out to them to comply.

Maybe post on legal board too?
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livednlearned
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2016, 09:09:32 AM »

Excerpt
Then the T went into a 15min rant about how all of it is my DHs fault and how for the sake of the children he needs to work together with uBPDxw. My DH tried to say something, but the T would not let him get in a word edgewise.

It would worry me, too, if a child psychologist ranted for 15 minutes, blaming me, after having my ex cherry pick the T and spend 2 hours hearing who knows what. Not to mention not really following court-ordered protocol.

Is there possibility to find another T? It's not uncommon to have to shop around even under the best of circumstances. Did the court order say that BPDx was to select the T?

What did the evaluating office say about the boys? It sounds like BPDx is threatened by whatever was said, and is seeking to claim some control in response.

Has the new T spoken to the psychologist who did the evals?

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soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2016, 10:19:10 AM »

We might have to get a letter from our lawyer. I am sure though it would build a wall and no warm feelings towards us from the T.

The story is a little more complicated (like all stories involving a BPD person). My stepsons pediatrician referred uBPDxw to a psychologist late last fall saying the boys need to be evaluated. Ironically he referred her to the same psychologist that DH had asked uBPDxw to take the kids to 2 yrs ago and uBPDxw rejected saying the kids are fine and are well taken care off by their paediatrician. Of course uBPDxw does not tell DH that the boys are referred to get evaluated and my DH only finds out that something is going on because one of the boys lets something slip in a Skype call that he is being tested. After calling around he finds out where they are being tested and luckily the psychologists office is willing to work with DH and lets him fill out all the same parental test forms and intake letters. The final report of the psychologist was published in February this year. The psychologist had put some things as recommendations there that made us scratch our heads as they were not part of any forms or intake letters (such as kids should not travel out of state for more than 30 days etc). DH got in contact with the psychologist and asked what all of these things were about. That is when the psychologist said she was also shocked, but those requests were made by uBPDxw. After some explaining the psychologist realised what had happened and changed her report "in our favour". All of this took several weeks until about mid march. DH asked psychologists office wether uBPDxw had made appointments to start therapy with the boys as that was the psychologists recommendation. Turns out uBPDxw had done nothing. So my DH made an intake appointment which was 3 weeks out and was during their spring break. He informed uBPDxw. She of course threw a hissy fit and cancelled the appointment saying my DH "did not make the appointment through the proper channels". We assume that she got the updated report in the mail from the psychologist and saw that she no longer had control over that psychologist and therefore had no desire to have her treat the boys. So then uBPDxw went back to the paediatrician asking for referrals to a T for the children. The paediatrician was confused about this, as boys are insured over my DH and his insurance is set up so that no referral is needed to see a T. uBPDxw told the paediatrician she did not want to travel 25 min to the town the psychologist was in(but apparently had no problem going there for the past 3 months to get the boys evaluated) and therefore was looking for some other referrals. This all happened back in may. So finally in September uBPDxw told my husband that she had set up something at the new T. (which of course is in the town 25 min away). In the meantime we had served her (on a different matter) with court papers and one of the things mentioned in there was, that we request the boys get therapy.

So, we would love to not have to switch T's and wait and see what happens. I am just not sure how much my DH can take from one more person who is drinking uBPDxw's koolaid and we have to start explaining from scratch all the whys and hows.

Sometimes I wish we would have all of the things that have happened writing down in a booklet that we could just hand to people and say: if you have questions, feel free to ask me.
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2016, 11:33:35 AM »

I'd set up an appointment with the therapist.

And for me, I find that when you stop arguing, therapists start problem solving (as long as she's not so bad, she needs to lose her license). What are her credentials?

Fine -- "I'm the worst dad ever. What can I do now to be better? Whatever it takes, I'll do."

A pwBPD also will struggle with regulation and impulse control. She's seen her twice. A person's true self usually shows up in times of distress. She's taking her at her word. Actions are far better views into someone and therapists are trained to see these kinds of issues.

My SD's mama usually can lose her halo as soon as the bill shows up (or any kind of criticism is offered). I'm not saying it as a judgment, but more as repetitive circumstance. She struggles with money, it causes her stress, and she doesn't regulate emotions very well. I've smoothed over situations 100 times by offering to pay the bill.  
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2016, 12:08:44 PM »

I agree with DreamGirl set up an appointment to see the therapist.

I would also question why mom is in the boys' therapy session. 

In my SO's case the court gave his uBPDxw Therapy decision making (Talk about putting the fox in charge of the hen house!)  She picked a therapist that she liked... .not a bad therapist necessarily but the therapist could not create the boundaries needed to work with my SO's daughters with the uBPDmom.  Mom even crashed a therapy session or two making it about her.  I feel pretty sure that the girls did not feel very safe discussing feelings pertaining to their mother.  Therapy was so non-effective that the younger daughter made suicide threats and went inpatient for 2 weeks. (She was diagnosed with PTSD)  This crisis thankfully got some more professional people involved with my SO's family.   At the same time the girls' therapist moved her practice to another town.  To which uBPDmom said dramatically... .That she would follow her to the ends of the earth!   

My SO's older daughter (now 20) decided to no longer pursue therapy and the younger daughter (now 16) has a new therapist she likes very much that isn't bullied by their mother.

Hopefully meeting with the Therapist will put some misconceptions to rest.

Panda39



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soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 12:23:10 PM »

is the therapist allowed to meet with my DH one on one (or in our case we would request a video conference over Skype as we live overseas now)?

And how much of what DH shares with the T is T required to pass on to the other parent? If uBPDxw would request all records from the sessions would my husbands emails be part of that?
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2016, 12:41:25 PM »

is the therapist allowed to meet with my DH one on one (or in our case we would request a video conference over Skype as we live overseas now)?

And how much of what DH shares with the T is T required to pass on to the other parent? If uBPDxw would request all records from the sessions would my husbands emails be part of that?

I don't see why not. I've met privately with my children's therapist.

I would just approach it as "I just want to be a part of this and work on my relationship with the kids."

Is he concerned with what he's said about the kids' mom? If she did request it, would it be an issue? 
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2016, 12:50:05 PM »

is the therapist allowed to meet with my DH one on one (or in our case we would request a video conference over Skype as we live overseas now)?

In my experience, a good child psychologist will do this with both parents prior to working with the child. And that T should also be very neutral and unbiased, and confidential. You can check with the ethics board and ask what you can reasonably expect.

And how much of what DH shares with the T is T required to pass on to the other parent? If uBPDxw would request all records from the sessions would my husbands emails be part of that?

Some therapists will ask parents to sign a waiver that says they will not use T's testimony in court. Apparently, you can subpoena them regardless of the waiver, but it is a way to signal to a judge that the T is advocating for the children's confidential treatment, and does not want their work or testimony used in court.

What kinds of emails concern you? If it is to throw BPD mom under the bus, that might not go over too well (it draws you into the drama triangle). What do you think of DreamGirl's suggestion to disarm the T by focusing on solutions instead of problems?

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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2016, 12:54:40 PM »

It's very improper for the therapist to rant at Dad based solely upon Mom's claims, perhaps also the child's comments with Mom there in the session.  The reason is that the T had never met Dad.  For example, a professional shouldn't ever diagnose someone as having a PD based upon other people's claims.  The professional would have to have sessions with the person, probably administering tests as well.  I figure in most cases it can't be ethically done thirdhand.  Similarly, Dad should not be judged until the T had some encounters with Dad.

For about a year and a half my preschooler son was getting counseling before I could get involved.  We had just separated when she took him in for child therapy.  I found out later that her goal was to blacklist me.  Court had defaulted the temp order to her for custody and parenting, I was EOW dad.  I found out about it when the insurance sent me a copy of the 3 month recertification.  The quasi-agency refused to discuss anything with me and I think they told me to request daya in writing.  So I requested.  A month later the response was that I was likely to be a danger to the life and safety of the patient or others.  It took me 3 tries in court - and a year - before I could get a court order for his records.  Clearly she was painting me as a Bad Guy.  I suspect our Custody Evaluator called them to ask what in the world they were doing because during the CE they invited me to join some play sessions with son.  However they wouldn't let me bring him for counseling unless ex would sign off on it.  You can guess correctly she wouldn't do that.  And they never apologized for their prior actions, after all, she reported scary things and she had temp custody.

I recall one comment to me at a later time when the T was surprised, "When I asked him whose privates he was allowed to touch, I was expecting to hear "my own" but instead he said "my mother's".  (She had a history, up to 3 years of age at least, that was when we separated and divorced, of having him hold her breasts to 'comfort' him.  No one ever did anything about that.)
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soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2016, 01:37:02 PM »

Wow... ForeverDad that is all kinds of wrong! Sometimes I wonder what kind of therapist would go for something like that. A good and experienced therapist knows that there are different views and sides. Especially in divorce situations.

I can only shake my head.


@livednlearned - there is nothing in my DHs email to the T that is bad mouthing mom. However we are disclosing some information that is related to our court strategy. For example uBPDxw does not know that the psychologist who did the evaluation admitted to us that it was pretty clear that uBPDxw wanted to try and get visitation cancelled to our home.
My DH also pointed out repeating patterns in uBPDxw behaviour that makes it difficult to "work together for the kids sake".

The main point that the T was ranting about was that one of my stepsons disclosed that he feels stressed about his Skype calls with Dad and that he feels that he needs to entertain Dad and stepmom. The T said: you don't want your son feeling that way and associating you with those feelings. (of course this happened while uBPDxw was in the session)

Well, of course DH nor me wants that. But in order to understand why my stepson feels that way you have to understand that uBPDxw sets him up to feel that way. The T said that maybe my husband can make his 30min twice a week Skype calls shorter and call more often. Again... yes, in a healthy and "normal" divorce situation you might be able to agree on that. But with a BPD in the picture we are fighting to even get 5 min of talk time out of the twice a week court ordered 30min Skype calls. Just last Sunday my DH stared at an empty room over Skype for 30 min until one of my stepsons came in for the last 30 seconds to tell my DH that he forgot to come in (uBPDxw sets the laptop up in the kids bedroom but has most of their favourite toys in the living room)  until the timer went off to remind him to hang up (uBPDxw sets a timer for the kids to remind them to hang up ... and by now they are trained like some pavlovian dogs and the second the timer goes off they hang up without saying goodbye). So sounds to me like uBPDxw never informed him that the call with Dad has started.
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« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2016, 01:42:09 PM »

How old are they?
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« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2016, 01:56:14 PM »

Other posts list then as 10 year old twins.

Excerpt
T called him back saying that she waited for uBPDxw to sign a release form so she could talk to my husband.

I'm not a lawyer, but if DH has joint custody then the order should detail that both parents have access to the doctors, records, etc.  Does the T have a copy of the order?  Maybe she was just being polite (a stretch, I know) and querying the original parent who opened the counseling?  I bet Mom got very freaked out about that and overreacted.  Predictable.

If the prior psychologists and other professionals did well, then you probably ought to request the new T to communicate with the psychologist and others who know the history.  The new T needs more than Mom to provide background and past history.  Mom won't like that since that's why she went T shopping and took the kids elsewhere to someone who was unaware of the history and perhaps less qualified to deal with a master manipulator.
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Panda39
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2016, 02:02:26 PM »

A little off topic but... .

Regarding Skype I hope you are documenting these incidents... .I've never done Skype can you record a Skype call?... .not sure if it's legal?  Anyway, I can relate to the frustration of an obstructive parent.  I know it's a pain but make sure no matter what mom does your DH always makes those Skype calls he may not be able to talk with the kids but the kids will know that dad is calling every single time and loves them.  It's lousy that mom puts them in the middle.  Unfortunately, that is all to familiar to us here.

You might want to read about parental alienation to be more aware of those behaviors.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/parental-alienation

Panda39


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soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2016, 01:58:32 AM »

@ForeverDad 
Yes, we offered the T that we would facilitate any calls or records she wants to receive or talk to. The boys are 10 (twins).

@Panda
Yes, we have recorded a plethora of skype calls (one party consent state). We also have a skype diary. We provided all of this to the CE 4 yrs ago when we went to court for joint custody and parental alienation, but the CE said she does not see any evidence of parental alienation (huh?). But that is a whole other story... .Smiling (click to insert in post)

Anyway we still record some skype calls and write emails to uBPDxw stating: that kids only were in the room for 30 seconds. etc. We also take pictures of how the camera is set up to show that it barely leaves room for one child to be squeezed into a corner  where the camera is pointing. We have asked uBPDxw multiple times to please put the laptoop / device for the skype calls to where the children actually are at that time, but she refuses. Therefore also creating the situation of the boys feeling like they are being forced to be stuck in one room for the duration of the call and having to interrupt whatever they are doing. One of my stepsons does not come into the room anymore. My husband has been able to talk to him for about 10min all together since the summer visit. That particular stepson told us that he simply does not like being stuck in one room when all his favorite toys are in the living room. Who can blame him?  So the other stepson (the golden child, the parentified child) feels like he needs to fill the void of his brother not coming in. And therefore then creating the situation that this stepson reports to the T that he feels anxious about the skype calls and feels like he needs to entertain us. (we also explained all of this to the T in the email). In addition uBPDxw has instructed the children that they are not allowed to share certain information with us (after school activities, play dates, weekend activites etc). We believe that she sends in the "the golden child" to the skype calls because she knows he will be loyal to her and not leak any information. The other stepson once told us something he was not supposed to and his brother then told him: you were not supposed to say that. To which he replied: but I just did. So, we believe that is one reason why she keeps one child out of the room and the "golden child" is sent in as her messenger.

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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2016, 11:59:59 AM »

Ugh.

She's really going the extra mile to make this difficult. Good for you guys for not giving up.

I wonder if there was a way to express to the therapist your frustration without laying blame on mom (since she already has her predisposed opinion that its all Dad.) I can just hear mom now about moving the computer so you could invade her privacy, not because you want the kids to be comfortable. Sometimes we just have to prove to people that we have the cooler head and are willing to compromise within reason.  

I might say something like... .

"I hate that this is stressing him out and thinks he has to entertain me! I really enjoy talking to him about nothing at all and the CE got to know us at length and worked hard to figure out her recommendation of the length of time and how often. She trusts, as do I, that we can make this work.

I'd like to figure out a solution to help them be at ease in this. Just a couple off ideas off the top of my head:

1.) They could work on their homework with me and read the questions so we're just spending time together
2.) Perhaps a board game that we could play over the phone/skype. We could play monopoly and I'll roll the dice on my end and they can take turns moving the pieces.
3.) They could take turns reading me a book on Tuesday's
4.) I know mom doesn't want them distracted but maybe there's a way to put the laptop in their playroom so they can show me all their cool toys.

I'm willing to adjust anything at all --- except the length of time I talk to them. I'm allocated such a small amount of time and it's important for their relationship with me to be maintained and nutured with communication and contact. I wished I lived closer, but I'm not able. This is the only means we have right now.  
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