Question about BPD/NPD

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I've read a few articles and listened to and watched a few videos about the BPD also having NPD traits. Some say these disorders run together and occur together with most pwBPD.

My exgf would certainly qualify for the NPD, and she is definitely BPD. Anyone else find this true of their BPD partners?

From what I've seen in her and learned here, I can't help but honestly believe my exgf is NPD as well.

[JerryRG]

I've read a few articles and listened to and watched a few videos about the BPD also having NPD traits. Some say these disorders run together and occur together with most pwBPD.

My exgf would certainly qualify for the NPD, and she is definitely BPD. Anyone else find this true of their BPD partners?

From what I've seen in her and learned here, I can't help but honestly believe my exgf is NPD as well.

[fromheeltoheal]

Good for you Jerry, I'm proud of you for digging into the articles and educating yourself.  Be proud too.

Yes, it's common for a borderline to adopt narcissistic traits as compensation for BPD and the constant opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment, it's a way to straddle the fence between them and keep them at bay.

Being narcissistic and having narcissistic personality disorder are two different things though, and just like BPD the traits exist on a continuum.  And BTW, some narcissism is completely healthy, in fact if we didn't have any we wouldn't have an ego or a self, it's mandatory.  And per usual, the diagnosis doesn't really matter, it's the behaviors, how they affected us, and what we make it mean that matter.

[enlighten me]

Both my uBPD exs have numerous srong traits from clustrr B dissorders. Out of the 36 traits in the dsm 4 both my exs are getting on for 30 of them. I read the criteria for BPD and npd to my ex MIL. My ex wife ticks them all. I would say BPD is the stronger of the two with her though. As well as NPD both my exs have strong HPD and ASPD traits. Not a clean sweep like with BPD and NPD though for my ex wife.

[Herodias]

Yes... .I read that too. My ex had allot of these traits. I will tell you that you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what they are exactly. It doesn't really matter in the end, because Cluster B seems to sum it up pretty good. I just read that when you begin to see who they really are and they can not manipulate you any more, that is when they disappear. I wonder if that is what your ex is doing, possibly thinking you will act different after she gives you the silent treatment for awhile. I hate that for your son... .stay strong.

[Kelli Cornett]

Yes... .I read that too. My ex had allot of these traits. I will tell you that you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what they are exactly. It doesn't really matter in the end, because Cluster B seems to sum it up pretty good. I just read that when you begin to see who they really are and they can not manipulate you any more, that is when they disappear. I wonder if that is what your ex is doing, possibly thinking you will act different after she gives you the silent treatment for awhile. I hate that for your son... .stay strong.

This would pretty much sum up the situation with my uBPDw.
I stopped reacting to her, got one last massive idealization/hypersexual phase for my efforts, followed immediately by a massive devaluation and discard.

She couldn't handle the fact that she had always blamed me for the issues in our marriage, I stopped causing/contributing to any issues (by no longer reacting to her), yet our issues continued (actually, they got far worse). That illustrated that our issues were actually stemming from her, she couldn't handle that, and was unwilling to take a good look at herself and what she had been doing with her intimate relationships her entire life (she once confided in me that she had sabotaged intimate relationships prior to me).

I really thought that the fact that her relationships with our children had become chaotic and was deteriorating as well would have been a wake up call, but I guess her BPD behaviors are too strong and ingrained for any kind of real epiphanies about her life. Maybe that's the narcissism in the dysfunction showing itself, as she just can't ever give up the illusion of her false self.

[Herodias]

Northface, yes... that is right. But in response to "she just can't ever give up the illusion of her false self."... .they just go off and become another false self with someone else. Basically pretending it was the life they had with you that was not working... .now that they are with someone different and living a different life, they are better. That in turn becomes a new false self for them to sabotage eventually and move on to another. Very strange really, but they have no sense of self. Also, your not reacting to her wasn't giving her narcissistic "supply" so she became bored with you... .not meaning that in a negative way to you, but when we know who and what they are... .we tend to not want to play the game anymore and how the heck can you flatter someone who treats you awfully?

[stimpy]

I will tell you that you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what they are exactly.

Yes, I have been guilty of this, trying to work out exactly what she has, and in the end it is pointless, all that matters is that the person, in my case exgf, didn't treat me well and wrecked the relationship.

For me I am now watchful for any of the following behaviours in people and if they exhibit them, then I keep a good distance away. This is the list for me:-

1) Playing the victim / blaming others
2) Hating exes / relatives, especially mother or father
3) Being over familiar when first meeting them, such as giving you their life story when first meeting
4) Not having empathy for you, or a concern for your feelings and well being
5) Engaging in any manipulative behaviour
6) Giving the silent treatment
7) Refusing to discuss/debate/argue when there are problems in the relationship that need resolving.

I just read that when you begin to see who they really are and they can not manipulate you any more, that is when they disappear.

And interestingly, I have experienced this too. I called her out on her stalking and silent treatment (a horrible combination) and when I stopped responding to her attempts at manipulation, she disappeared.


Jerry, great to see you're investigating the traits of BPD/NPD, it is immensely complex and it is hard to get a good understanding, the thought processes are so different. But I believe it is invaluable in the journey back to normality as it depersonalises the behaviour that we experience.

[tryingsome]

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2) Hating exes / relatives, especially mother or father

Really, I found the opposite. My ex would idolize both mother and father, especially the dad who has done everything to cut her out of his life. Talk about dead beat... .but she still admires him

[JerryRG]

Thanks everyone, I so appreciate the feedback and thoughtful suggestions.

I'm really struggling right now, the 3 facets of life, physical, emotional and spiritual thing, my chemo is killing me. I'm better today, but wow, that stuff is more toxic than my exgf, I know, I know I am exagerating but... .well maybe they are about equal?

Have to laugh, my physical problems are taking away from the other areas of my health. That's all.

Just need to dig deeper, rely on God more and keep doing the right thing.

At least I'm not communicating with my exgf, that's always a plus. I'm sure an ambush is in the near future.

Reviewing her behaviours I can see BPD/npd and histrionic stuff too.

I keep whining to people about "why is she doing this?" They say I'm feeling sorry for myself, after all I knew exactly what I was getting myself into. I chose to keep trying, I was warned before our child was even born that she would abandon him, didn't believe it then. I do now.

Maybe I better start listening? My failure to trust is also a foo issue and only brought to vulgar level of height by being with, loving, relationship with a pwBPD.

Thanks again

[fromheeltoheal]

I keep whining to people about "why is she doing this?"

So with the research you're doing, are you getting closer to understanding why Jerry?

[JerryRG]

Thanks fromheeltoheal

I am getting answers, I'm still very powerfully invested in denial. Had lots of years of practice.

I do thank you, this is frustrating.

I told my sponser I'm sick, he said "yes you are, the fact is your are on chemo"

I insist on tying my frustration to emotion, when my sponser puts it as simply "fact" it's just material, I process it as immaterial.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, when we're not feeling well physically all of life is more difficult; I hope you make peace with that chemo soon and you start feeling better.

We all get attached to our story, our past, too.  It also helpful to develop a vision for your future, a life worth living that you're inspired by, focus on that, and start moving in that direction.  And when you do, stuff will show up, beliefs, histories, whatever it is that is no longer serving you and getting in your way, and then you can decide if letting go of them and adopting some new beliefs will help you moving forward.  Having a vision for your and your son's bright future will help you navigate that.

[JerryRG]

Thank you fromheeltoheal

I'm allowing fear to control my thoughts about the future, days I can barely walk, scares me and I see my son growing up without me. And that's fine if that's what happens. I will work on my negitive thinking and self pity and though it's a familiar pattern, it isn't comfortable or practical any longer. Thankfully I've been well enough to be able to look back over just the last couple of years and see how my life has changed and happiness is available if I choose it.

I just want my son safe, happy and able to have a good life.

[Rayban]

Yes, it's common for a borderline to adopt narcissistic traits as compensation for BPD and the constant opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment, it's a way to straddle the fence between them and keep them at bay.

Hi fromheeltoheal ,

Could you please expand on the adoption of narcissistic traits to compensate for the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment?

I  believe that this applied to my BPDex towards the end of our relationship.  She became overly concerned about her looks and would go around fishing for compliments from people.  She also was very direct in her interactions and would bring up her achiements, real or imagined especially at work.  Also she suddenly became very possessive of material items that we previously shared and she began saying don't touch it it's mine or I paid for it  etc.

Are the narcissistic traits used somewhere along the lines of you won't abandonment me because I'm clearly so superior and special,  and on the flip side, acting in a way as to clearly indicate what is mine is mine and don't get to close cause I'm a superior person (engulfment )?

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, it's common for a borderline to adopt narcissistic traits as compensation for BPD and the constant opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment, it's a way to straddle the fence between them and keep them at bay.

Could you please expand on the adoption of narcissistic traits to compensate for the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment?

I  believe that this applied to my BPDex towards the end of our relationship.  She became overly concerned about her looks and would go around fishing for compliments from people.  She also was very direct in her interactions and would bring up her achiements, real or imagined especially at work.  Also she suddenly became very possessive of material items that we previously shared and she began saying don't touch it it's mine or I paid for it  etc.

Are the narcissistic traits used somewhere along the lines of you won't abandonment me because I'm clearly so superior and special,  and on the flip side, acting in a way as to clearly indicate what is mine is mine and don't get to close cause I'm a superior person (engulfment )?

A way for a borderline to manage the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment is to control the emotional distance in the relationship: get too close and get pushed away, get too far away and get pulled back.  And a way to implement that is for the borderline to act as if they're the most awesome mate in the world, you need to be grateful to be with them, so you'll want to be and you won't want to leave.  And also, not only true for borderlines but people in general, if you're feeling inferior, act superior to compensate.

The part about being concerned about her looks, fishing for compliments and being possessive about her stuff indicates she was already feeling abandoned, looking for new attachments, and protecting what was hers.  Does any of that ring true for you Rayban?

[Confusedpe]

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2) Hating exes / relatives, especially mother or father

Really, I found the opposite. My ex would idolize both mother and father, especially the dad who has done everything to cut her out of his life. Talk about dead beat... .but she still admires him

Never stress my friend, mine did too, her snake of a mum and her abusive father were the best thing since sliced bread