Will the real person stand up please?

[Larmoyant]

I have a question. Who was my ex? I mean what was the fundamental part of him. Was it the anxious, vulnerable person who believed no one cared for him, was it the funny, loving person I wanted so much, was it the angry, vicious person who brought me to my knees? He was all of those things at different times, but who was the real person. Was/is he fundamentally the vulnerable, scared and anxious person that uses various defenses to keep himself safe?

I'm asking because what I may have been doing is trying to reassure the vulnerable person that he is loved and that if I succeeded then the vicious person would leave and I'd be left with the loving, funny person. No amount of love and reassurance was ever enough of course, but this could be why I'm still a little stuck. I kept thinking that the vulnerable part was the real him and that he somehow couldn't help the bad things he did and because of this I stayed way too long. 

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi L-

Is it possible to accept that he was all of those?  Borderlines, and people without complete selves in general, are unstable by nature, have "unstable affect" as it's termed, and experience intense emotions that become fact, so he is who is in the moment, every moment.  Like all of us really, but just with the intensity and variability turned way up.  I'm sure you noticed.  So it can be crazymaking to try and determine which mode was the "real" him, and the mind wanders depending which one we decide was "real" yes?  It can be more peaceful to accept all of them as him, and then, when taken as a whole, do you want to be with that?  Some do, some want to make it work, me, I'm out, but that's a decision for us all to make.

[Blastblood]

I think he was all of them, or more accurately, none of them. I am 24 and my ex BPD gf is 20. A person should has already built his/her character by then right? Mine hasn't. Not only me all of my mutual friends told me the same thing that she had not a personal character. She hasn't been single since 15 and all she has as a character is what she gained from her boyfriends. Basicly I was like dating her exes.

It's only been 5 months since she abondoned me for a mutual friend and blamed me for everything. I must hate her yet i like to think it this way: I still love her. But when I see her in school, I don't see the women i love or I had loved. I see the woman who crushed my heart without hesitation brutally. Like there are two of her.

I mean I know that she was good inside but it's like there is a cancer in her brain drives her do these kinds of evil. I don't count her doing things for me, cooking dinner for me or washing my clothes as a reason to believe that she loves me. She always expected something in return. But now and then I used to realize that she does things in secretly for me and without expecting something, like I do.

My ex had the all aspects you counted there "anxious, vulnerable person who believed no one cared for him, the funny, loving person I wanted so much, the angry, vicious person who brought me to my knees". All these aspects make him/her who she/he is. But his true self may not gotten to the surface yet. This is why it is considired to be a disorder.

tl;dr All of them are him but if you want to remember him good, count him as the loving person because I think that if he hadn't had the disorder this one seems to be the closest personality he would had.

[Moselle]

Larmoyant,

What a difficult thing. To reconcile all the personalities and difficulties regarding a borderline.

The one I fell in love with was sweet, nurturung, kind, motherly, diligent and talented.

The one I divorced was a fraudster, violent, unstable, aggressive, dishonest, master manipulator and talented.

The only common bit was talent :-) and of course she is extremely high functioning.

The extremes illustrate the nursery rhyme to me "when she was good she was very very good and when she was bad she was horrid".

If I look back I justified staying for 15 years because I defined her by her positive side. The part that I loved. Unfortunately that part of her became so scarce until by the end she was all black.

This is BPD. It is what it is. She is both but mostly she is the dark one.

[Curiously1]

Fundamentally I think they are 'broken' people who cannot face themselves and experience and receive real intimacy and love, even how much you give to them and show them what it looks like-- unless they work on fixing themselves and eventually recognise what real is and what it looks like and how to become more of a 'real' person they will never ever see it or see you for who you really are either. To be honest I am more sad that I was not recognised for who I really was in reality... but I know it is the way it is with this disorder. I have the tendencies to think nothing was ever real in the first place but more of two people fantasising in their own minds (even me) hoping that it could become more real by projecting what I wished she could be too if only she could and really wanted to change. I know she loves me to the best of her ability but at the same time I know her definition of love was very different to mine but... I  also see it as her not loving at all because she didn't know what love was all about and how to show it in regards to my definition of it.
I see the darker side of them as the real them that is troubled to be honest and the lighter side that we love about them as compensatory (as in they do stuff and get good at stuff as another form of distraction away from themselves ... and also change dramatically to fit and attach to you). Basically I believe that it is our character that is most important and what character do they have? They have no clue either. They are people who wish to escape from their past and trauma and choose to do so by perpetually trying to see the world through someone else's lense (mirorring) you for a change to escape all the darkness they have beem running from and enduring in themselves. They take too many vacations away from themselves because it is just so painful for them to look inwards. Not everyone is all good or bad but knowing ourselves and self-reflecting (which they don't), I think is what makes us real to ourselves and to others... .

[DazedandConfus3d]

I have a question. Who was my ex? I mean what was the fundamental part of him. Was it the anxious, vulnerable person who believed no one cared for him, was it the funny, loving person I wanted so much, was it the angry, vicious person who brought me to my knees? He was all of those things at different times, but who was the real person. Was/is he fundamentally the vulnerable, scared and anxious person that uses various defenses to keep himself safe?

I'm asking because what I may have been doing is trying to reassure the vulnerable person that he is loved and that if I succeeded then the vicious person would leave and I'd be left with the loving, funny person. No amount of love and reassurance was ever enough of course, but this could be why I'm still a little stuck. I kept thinking that the vulnerable part was the real him and that he somehow couldn't help the bad things he did and because of this I stayed way too long. 

Oh god this is so familiar to me.  I and acted the same way, had the same questions about 'who is this person, REALLY?' because the parts I saw of them seemed so utterly contradictory.  Now I feel like my understanding is my ex is ALL those people- the loving sweet adventurer, the thoughtful dreamer, the crazy fun party buddy, the intoxicating lover, the liar, the cheat, the cruel manipulator, the needy self-obesessed vanity queen- all those are reflections of her very unstable moods and identity. 

One of the things I found really upsetting is that she would hide many of these feelings and thoughts from me so I never knew where her head was at.  In the end what I came to is that I would never understand the way the world looked like from inside her skull that made her act in the way she did and feel utterly justified in doing so, and that the only thing to do was to simply accept that this was a person who was not (at this time, maybe ever) of engaging with me in an adult, mutual, sharing, and respectful relationship.  Regardless of how much I tried, she could no more do it than a pig could fly- so its not about right or wrong or true or not, its about this person not being able to give you what you deserve or have a right to expect. 

Worrying about who they really were consumed so much of my time in the last 2 months it literally made me nuts and unable to function, until I eventually realized that this was just another aspect of trying to hold on to the relationship, and as long as I was trying to figure out who this person 'really' was, I could never, ever move on.  I'm still struggling to just let go, but my goal is clear- this person is out of my life, who ever they are with now is in for the same rollercoaster ride as I had or worse, and the best thing I can do is work on me and what I need to be happy and fulfilled. 

Hope this helps.

[Larmoyant]

It's difficult to accept all of these personas were one and the same person without there being something that binds them altogether? I tend to think as Curiously said and see the vulnerable side as the real him, that he was hurt in some way and all the others are defenses of some kind to protect himself. Maybe I should read some more.

I also keep forgetting about feelings = facts. It took me a while to understand it, but it does go a long way to explaining the shift in moods and the seemingly different personas. He could be an angry/vicious person;vulnerable/needy person;loving/gorgeous person and an emotionally distant person. The latter was really the most difficult for me as he would dismiss me as if I was disposable and unwanted. It was brutal.

Remembering the horror helps me detach and stay away, but his vulnerable side makes me feel sad for him. I've read about how pwBPD sometimes feel tortured which I believe he projected onto me so I ended up feeling tortured. But still, if he doesn't know himself, can't reconcile the good and the bad then he can't ever have known me or anyone else and it's no wonder he cannot trust anything or anyone. It's just so sad.

I'm not sure if focusing on his vulnerable side is helping me to detach.I'm trying to find something here and I'm not sure what.

[DazedandConfus3d]

I'm not sure if focusing on his vulnerable side is helping me to detach.I'm trying to find something here and I'm not sure what.

Well perhaps ask yourself this- what is it in you that made you accept the worst part of the relationship?  What does that say about you? What do you want to do about that? What do you want to learn from and grow into out of your experiences in the relationship?

Focusing on you and what you want I've found very healing coming out of a relationship where it was NEVER about what I wanted and I was manipulated into feeling guilt and shame when I articulated desires and needs.  It really divorced me from my own sense of self, and focusing on who that person is/was furthers that divorce- instead think about who you want to be coming out of the experience with that person.

[fromheeltoheal]

It's difficult to accept all of these personas were one and the same person without there being something that binds them altogether? I tend to think as Curiously said and see the vulnerable side as the real him, that he was hurt in some way and all the others are defenses of some kind to protect himself. Maybe I should read some more.

That's good L.  Think of a young kid, an infant or a toddler, who is completely dependent on his parents, specifically his mother, yet feels an urge to break free and explore the world, but gets too far away and goes back, clings to mom, on and on until their confidence grows, while feeling supported, so he can successfully detach from his parents and become an autonomous human.  Borderlines don't do that, for what could be a variety of reasons they get stuck and don't detach successfully, so life becomes about attaching to someone to feel whole.  That's the core of the disorder, and all of the behaviors come out of that, so yes, that vulnerable core of him who needs to feel whole but also needs to venture out to try and detach is the real him, the motivation for the behaviors.  So maybe it's a matter of separating him from his behaviors?  :)oes that work better?

[Larmoyant]

Thank you all for your input. What I'm doing is trying to piece it all together. I'm curious and possibly seeking some sort of closure, although admittedly I'm still a little enmeshed. Maybe not so much these days. Everyday I get further away.
 
FHTH, thank you, that does work better. That's what I was trying to find. The origins of it all. The fundamental part of him that gave rise to all the other parts.

If someone hasn't successfully detached, hasn't formed a whole self, how can they be helped? How can someone without a whole sense of self develop one?

I'd like to add that this really helps me so thank you. It's his birthday next Saturday and I'm still wondering whether or not to send him best wishes. I will,for the vulnerable person who is in there, but at the same time I'm not forgetting the other parts that hurt me so much.

[fromheeltoheal]

If someone hasn't successfully detached, hasn't formed a whole self, how can they be helped? How can someone without a whole sense of self develop one?

Personality disorders form as the personality is developing, when order becomes disorder, and it's literally hardwired into his personality, there is no "cure" although with therapy and skills like DBT a borderline can learn to temper the strong emotions and improve the behaviors.

It's his birthday next Saturday and I'm still wondering whether or not to send him best wishes. I will,for the vulnerable person who is in there, but at the same time I'm not forgetting the other parts that hurt me so much.

Careful L, we know how it affects you when there's communication with him, what if he responds to the wishes?  I'm not telling you not to, just please get very clear on your motives and how strong you're feeling.

[Larmoyant]

This decision is proving to be a real struggle for me FHTH, but ultimately I just can't see myself ignoring his birthday. I feel sad for him as I believe he'll be expecting some acknowledgement. He really believe no one cares for him and I can't forget that. It's not only for him either, it's for me so I can feel ok within myself that I did the right thing. At the same time, I'll admit to feeling afraid of sending anything. Scared that any response might trigger pain. The best outcome would be for him to ignore anything from me, but who knows. It's my birthday the following day so he may reciprocate. Either way I suspect I'll probably feel hurt in some way, but I'm trying to prepare myself. There will be no reason to contact him ever again after this. In that regard I feel strong.

[fromheeltoheal]

OK, there's some good processing L, and I like the part about doing it for you because it's right, and it sounds like it would be some closure too, you giving it finality, good motives.  The challenge will be how you take any reciprocation, and as you say you're preparing for that too.  You've been out long enough that you may be trusting your gut feel again, is that true?

[Curiously1]

This decision is proving to be a real struggle for me FHTH, but ultimately I just can't see myself ignoring his birthday. I feel sad for him as I believe he'll be expecting some acknowledgement. He really believe no one cares for him and I can't forget that. It's not only for him either, it's for me so I can feel ok within myself that I did the right thing. At the same time, I'll admit to feeling afraid of sending anything. Scared that any response might trigger pain. The best outcome would be for him to ignore anything from me, but who knows. It's my birthday the following day so he may reciprocate. Either way I suspect I'll probably feel hurt in some way, but I'm trying to prepare myself. There will be no reason to contact him ever again after this. In that regard I feel strong.

Hi L,
I completely understand how it feels to feel sorry for a pwBPD, especially when they take pity on themselves and believe nobody cares when clearly that is not true. I am sure that you've proven that you've cared already throughout your relationship whether he saw it or not. That is often the lasting hook for us to stay attached for longer than we should especially when we are trying to move on completely. The neverending worry for them. I am not saying do not greet him either but I am wondering why you are continuing to feel sorry for him. Perhaps it is a value of yours to acknowledge someone's birthday and it does not feel right if you don't. Know that even if you don't, ignoring him or trying to live your life without him in the picture anymore does not make you cruel or an awful person that does not care for others wellbeing. Your feelings matter too and to be honest it'll do no good if you continue to worry about him. But if it's a once off thing perhaps it'll be ok. Have a good think about why you need to reach out to someone who has hurt you. Why his expectations matter to you.

[Larmoyant]

Hi FHTH, yes, this feels like finality. One last gesture that is true to my character regardless of what he thinks of it. That will depend on his emotions of the moment and could be anything. I'm not going to try to guess his reaction and it doesn't bother me as much anymore. I agree that the challenge will be any reciprocation as I'm sure it will make me feel sad. It's all part of detaching I suppose and if I'm sad so be it. I'll handle it. I've got through the worst. Not sure if I completely trust my gut feel yet, but certainly on my way.

Hi Curiously, yes, despite all the torment I do feel sorrow for him. It's a terrible disorder. My life's still difficult, but I can get better, can rebuild, learn from all this, and go on to hopefully live a much more peaceful, less chaotic life. It's started already. He's unfortunately stuck with it, unless he gets help, destined to repeat the cycle over and over. I lost a lot through this relationship including my career, he didn't, but I wouldn't swap places.

.I am sure that you've proven that you've cared already throughout your relationship whether he saw it or not. That is often the lasting hook for us to stay attached for longer than we should especially when we are trying to move on completely.

Yes, this could be the last hook. I wore myself out trying to prove how much I cared. I suppose sending him birthday wishes sounds as if I'm still doing the same thing, but I don't think so. It's really for the times when he was so anxious, panicking almost, thinking no one cared even though people clearly did. How horrible this must feel. I also remember the times when he really tried to make it work with me. Sometimes he really did. It's sad for both of us and tugs at my heart strings. I'll send him wishes for these reasons, for him and for me. It is probably the only closure I'm going to get.

[Moselle]

I lost a lot through this relationship including my career, he didn't, but I wouldn't swap places.

I'm wondering about this. I also lost alot of my career. This thing has distracted me for 5 years.

How can we change this around?

[fromheeltoheal]

I lost a lot through this relationship including my career, he didn't, but I wouldn't swap places.

I'm wondering about this. I also lost alot of my career. This thing has distracted me for 5 years.

How can we change this around?

By focusing on what we've gained instead of lost, and where we're going instead of where we've been.

[Larmoyant]

Hi Moselle, I'm sorry that happened to you too. It's heartbreaking to have worked so hard to get where you want to go and have it all come tumbling down. Totally devastating. I don't quite know how I'm going to recover yet, but I really need to start trying. It's a big hurdle to overcome and I'm very afraid to take the first step, but I like what FHTH says. If I can do this I'm going to be ok, but taking that first step is proving elusive. I hope you're doing better than me Moselle.

[Moselle]

Well its a process. We've been successful before so it's a good bet to predict a recovery.

It's been the single most important thing for me actually, I have had a side business which reflected my passion since 2009. But I have been quite successful at building other people's businesses (aka a well paid employee ) for so long. A consumate professional that I never really focused on my business and brand. Through all of this I've gotten stuck into my business and brand and I'm loving the challenge of it.

The more I detached from my BPD project, the more I focused on this company. It's for me, no one else, and I'm enjoying the selfishness of it . It's my purpose - my contribution to make and I feel driven.

The energy and passion I used to have for the companies I worked for, has been turned inward. Others are beginning to notice my passion and are getting involved. It's taken some time but i now have something.

I have to thank my ex for this. Tomorrow I get up and can't wait to execute my business ambitions in my own company. Wow !

[Larmoyant]

That's so inspiring. Thank you for sharing. Your passion reminds me of what I felt like before this nightmare descended on me. You mention it being the single most important thing and I get the feeling that if I can focus on doing something again it will really help. It's just difficult fighting the negative thoughts that are holding me back. This is my next detachment step, breaking the negative thinking. I wish you all the very best and continued success with your business Moselle.

[fromheeltoheal]

Tomorrow I get up and can't wait to execute my business ambitions in my own company. Wow !

Now there's the sound of a passionate future!  WooHoo! 

Good for you Moselle.

[lovenature]

Hi L

You know that PWBPD make up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment; all of their defences boil down to it, so it only stands to reason that they are unable to maintain a stable personality and behave the way you would expect a non-disordered adult to.

Really think about what sending him birthday wishes will do for both of you; continuing contact of any kind will most likely just cause more pain for both of you. Maintaining NC is very painful, but the best way to detach and heal.

[Moselle]

That's so inspiring. Your passion reminds me of what I felt like before this nightmare descended on me. You mention it being the single most important thing and I get the feeling that if I can focus on doing something again it will really help. It's just difficult fighting the negative thoughts that are holding me back.

In a way the whole BP thing highjacks our passion and energy. The more you detach the less they can take (or more accurately, we can give) The energy and passion will return. It's still in you and a new avenue may open up unexpectedly, and take you in a different direction.

This part you're going through is like being stuck in mud while its raining. Storms are part of life and so is sunshine. Just  hang in there. The sun will come out!

[Larmoyant]

This part you're going through is like being stuck in mud while its raining. Storms are part of life and so is sunshine. Just  hang in there. The sun will come out!

I'm clinging to those words Moselle.

[Moselle]

Good. You're doing great   We're on this journey together  

I had an amazing amazing Monday Tuesday.

Walked into about 10 companies. Asked to speak to the owners and pitched my business. 3 of them are buying in.

My divorce court appearance tomorrow. Time to finally cut this thing loose after 2 years 10 months