Do they change or is it just a charm

[Confusedpe]

Seriously I know this is such a stupid question after a three time recycler here but has ANYONE EVER had their BPD Change for the better or AT LEAST make an improvement good enough to live with?

[JerryRG]

In my experience no, my exgf does not behave any different now than before when I was with her.

She has a different theme, nothing meaningful or real. She says she's a Christian but her behavior would certainly prove otherwise.

She's mirroring the new bf and that's all,

Everyone told me what a fake my exgf was when I was with her, she still is a fake. She's just found a new way of acting a part that she's only going through the motions but there's no substance.

In my opinion and many other also believe she's even gotten worse than ever, cutting herself off from her entire family to avoid hearing the truth.

Her bf is delusional too, everyone tells him to run but he's stuck just like everyone else was in these relationships.

[Confusedpe]

In my experience no, my exgf does not behave any different now than before when I was with her.

She has a different theme, nothing meaningful or real. She says she's a Christian but her behavior would certainly prove otherwise.

She's mirroring the new bf and that's all,

Everyone told me what a fake my exgf was when I was with her, she still is a fake. She's just found a new way of acting a part that she's only going through the motions but there's no substance.

In my opinion and many other also believe she's even gotten worse than ever, cutting herself off from her entire family to avoid hearing the truth.

Her bf is delusional too, everyone tells him to run but he's stuck just like everyone else was in these relationships.

You seem to have a lot of info on her, hearing this must have immensely helped u

[JerryRG]

I'm fortunate to have the support of her family, they are wonderful people and they have all had to deal with her, much longer so they are better equipped.

I asked my exgfs mother what to expect next, she told me to not expect anything, that way I wouldn't be surprised. Her mother has detached years ago. I'm just starting after a year, if we didn't have a child I'm sure I could just go NC and the process would move ahead quicker.

This is an opportunity for my growth, my exgf wants me as sick as her so she can justify all the horrible lies she's told about me, rape, beating and yes I even killed her.

So she's really pushing my buttons to break me so she can show the world I'm the crazy unstable one.

She's digging herself deeper into a pit, my hope is she hits bottom and finally gets the help she needs.

The more she tries to break me, the more I fight to survive, she's just helping me grow stronger actually.

I talk to her pastor too, he's very understanding and he sees right through her lies and fake illnesses. There's only 2 people who don't know the truth, my ex and her bf.

[Confusedpe]

I'm fortunate to have the support of her family, they are wonderful people and they have all had to deal with her, much longer so they are better equipped.

I asked my exgfs mother what to expect next, she told me to not expect anything, that way I wouldn't be surprised. Her mother has detached years ago. I'm just starting after a year, if we didn't have a child I'm sure I could just go NC and the process would move ahead quicker.

This is an opportunity for my growth, my exgf wants me as sick as her so she can justify all the horrible lies she's told about me, rape, beating and yes I even killed her.

So she's really pushing my buttons to break me so she can show the world I'm the crazy unstable one.

She's digging herself deeper into a pit, my hope is she hits bottom and finally gets the help she needs.

The more she tries to break me, the more I fight to survive, she's just helping me grow stronger actually.

I talk to her pastor too, he's very understanding and he sees right through her lies and fake illnesses. There's only 2 people who don't know the truth, my ex and her bf.

Must be very comforting having the support of others.

Is she diagnosed or undiagnosed?

[Curiously1]

"The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour"
Not saying they can never ever improve or finally not fit into the BPD diagnostic criteria but it would take them a lot of hard work no doubt... Most just don't in my opinion and continue the cycle. And just like what JerryRG thinks, I too think that they'll need to reach rock bottom to think of checking themselves. Change is hard for us nons already let alone someone with a personality disorder...

[JerryRG]

She was in DBT before her divorce and claims her husband cut her off her support because the insurance cost were too high. She is diagnosed BPD, she demonstrates every symptom found in the DSM as well. I was going to help her, save her, rescue her.

After being with me a while she shifted her beliefs about BPD and denied her illness.

Yes I'm very fortunate to have all this support and just realized how much I'm taking it for granted. I better acknowledge my gratefulness to her family and all the others who are helping my son and I deal with his mother's mental illness.

Better get ready for work, thanks for your post Confusedpe. You have helped me see things in a different light. Have a great day

[Confusedpe]

She was in DBT before her divorce and claims her husband cut her off her support because the insurance cost were too high. She is diagnosed BPD, she demonstrates every symptom found in the DSM as well. I was going to help her, save her, rescue her.

After being with me a while she shifted her beliefs about BPD and denied her illness.

Yes I'm very fortunate to have all this support and just realized how much I'm taking it for granted. I better acknowledge my gratefulness to her family and all the others who are helping my son and I deal with his mother's mental illness.

Better get ready for work, thanks for your post Confusedpe. You have helped me see things in a different light. Have a great day

Glad I've indirectly helped you in some way
I believe that most of their family members are unaware of the full extent of the BPD, mine I believe is 75% BPD and the rest she makes up with NPD and all other cluster B disorders so in reality who knows what she is, she's a cluster B cross breed but mainly BPD minus the self harming behaviors

[Confusedpe]

"The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour"
Not saying they can never ever improve or finally not fit into the BPD diagnostic criteria but it would take them a lot of hard work no doubt... Most just don't in my opinion and continue the cycle. And just like what JerryRG thinks, I too think that they'll need to reach rock bottom to think of checking themselves. Change is hard for us nons already let alone someone with a personality disorder...

Love that first line... .thank u

[C.Stein]

"The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour"

I would generally agree with this for all people.  While I do believe people can change and I like to give someone the chance to be more than the sum of their past, one has to keep a weary eye on the past.  This applies for yourself too.   

In my exs case she repeated the same mistakes of her past, even after swearing she had learned from them.  Unfortunately I think the only thing she has learned over time is how to better hide her "dark side" and perhaps maybe restrain it a bit.  It is truly sad to see someone want to be something more yet cannot seem to find a way to be honest with themselves.

[Confusedpe]

It's always the same cycle

Love bomb, get what she wants, devalue, go crazy and then I walk away

Start back at love bomb

At the moment it's love bomb and me saying NO WAY to another round

[once removed]

hi Confusedpe,

has ANYONE EVER had their BPD Change for the better or AT LEAST make an improvement good enough to live with?

since this is the Detaching board, youre not likely to hear many cases of this.

are you wondering if your ex will change?

[SoMadSoSad]

Since my ex contacted me a few weeks ago im now left wondering if shes changed. SHe gave me what most of us dont get here and thats closure. She told me that im not a bad person and she appreciates everything me and my family did for her. She apologized for her behavior which she contributes to the stress she was going through and told me she is working on herself. All this makes me wonder if her bf has caused her to change for the better and now he is reaping the benefits of a more stable her.

[Confusedpe]

Since my ex contacted me a few weeks ago im now left wondering if shes changed. SHe gave me what most of us dont get here and thats closure. She told me that im not a bad person and she appreciates everything me and my family did for her. She apologized for her behavior which she contributes to the stress she was going through and told me she is working on herself. All this makes me wonder if her bf has caused her to change for the better and now he is reaping the benefits of a more stable her.

My one is apologizing and begging me to forgive her, it's another love bomb tactic, in fact I'd rather have Been discarded nothing at least that way u were the one who got dumped and u weren't harassed and brain fried

[Notwendy]

I think of it this way- personal change- about almost anything- takes time, effort, an internal commitment.

Think of the hard work it takes to change. To lose weight, to start an exercise program, to change professions- earn a degree- job hunt. To work on something like an addiction, co-dependency. With hard work, time, effort, people can change- but they have to want to change.

It is easier to want to change in the moment. How many of us made New Year resolutions we didn't keep, joined a gym and didn't go, started a diet and broke it. Tried to learn new habits. We may want to, but doing so is harder.

What I experienced with pw BPD is the instant change. Everything is OK now. Like most of us, they want what they want, and if it is getting you back, or a new partner, or a new friend, they can be very motivated to do that. But if the motivation is external, then keeping up that change is much harder- for anyone.

Sometimes the intimacy in a relationship is part of the challenge. A new partner, or friend, isn't aware of their issues. It can appear like starting over with a clean slate with someone else. But we take our issues with us.

I think some people with BPD are personally distressed at their behavior and in the moment do want to change, but I also think that it takes effort and hard work. I also think denial, projection and shame make it hard to truly lay their thoughts and issues out for someone like a counselor. 

I believe that change can be possible, but with time and effort. If I saw that, I would believe it. I don't think instant change is possible- not just for pw BPD but for everyone.

[Pretty Woman]

"The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour"
Spot on.  

My ex takes on the interests of whomever she is with at the time. I have met three of her exes and they are all extremely different.

I can say my ex is doing great, if you look at her public social media. She seems really happy. But I know for a fact she has cheated on every ex and has a penchant for recycling with those up for round 2 or round 20. She left me once for an ex she left several times for others.

The only exes she hasn't tried again with are ones who ripped her a new one or she tried and was horribly dejected. She gave up a baby 23 years ago and occasionally reaches out to the adopted parents. Last year they blocked her on social media. This really struck me because at one point they allowed her to see her child. When she talks about them it's like they are the best people in the world.

That is what always got me. People who want nothing to do with her, she craves and the people who love her are treated like dog shyt.

So I personally don't think they change. They can get better but getting better takes accountability. It also take support, not a team of dysfunctional enablers and professional rescuers. I don't think it's charm either though. I just think they are emotional vampires that are able to acclimate to any given situation... .at least for awhile.

[JerryRG]

Just talked to my exgf pastor, explained what happened last Friday evening with my exgf showing up at a restaurant I was at and grabbed our son from me without saying one word and ran out with him.

Pastor agrees it's crazy, feels bad for my son and told me my exgf is officially engaged as of last night to her bf. Just last week they broke up and she blocked her bf from social media.

So in my case, no my exgf hasn't changed.

She and I did this exact dance over and over until I finally seen the light.

I know my exgf is disordered but this speaks volumes about her bf as well.

Nothing helps mend a broken dysfunctional relation like getting married

[steelwork]

confusedpe: I suspect you will get different perspectives about this on the improving board. Have you checked that out? You don't need to commit to improving to hang out and read or even post your question there, I don't think. 

[One key]

They dont change.

[Infern0]

Change is possible but highly unlikely. It takes a lot of hard work and introspection which the disorder makes next to impossible.

What I would add is they CAN change to new coping mechanisms if called for. For instance my ex used to be archetype of the "waif" borderline.

Now, 3 years after I met her she seems more like a textbook narcissist.  She's swapped one awful coping mechanism for another.

This was actually to my benefit as I had real problems walking away from the depressed, broken girl. But the stuck up party girl just doesn't do it for me so I had no problems walking.

[jasmine-1234]

It sounds very frustrating. It seemed like the only way I could get my ex to take me seriously was to get very loud and upset and tell him it was over. Then he would scramble to make everything right, for a little bit, but he couldn't help but act out over and over again.  Extremely frustrating.

And yes I agree, given that they have so many challenges it would be difficult to change and take a lot of work, with professional help.

[Confused108]

Nope mine is still the same lying , manipulating , person she was as s teen. She even still uses the same phrases she did back in 1988. The only thing that has changed with her is her age and location where she now lives.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Confused-

I agree with   once removed that you're not going to find many success stories on the Detaching board, and as   steelwork mentions, the culture and message is different on the Improving board and you may find some success stories there, not necessarily that a borderline has "changed", but that the two people in that thing between them called a relationship have changed the dynamic such that it's good enough to keep the relationship together.

3 break-up/make-up cycles isn't extreme Confused, some members report 10+ recycles before the relationship ended, although it's helpful at this point, once we're committed to detaching, to look at your motivation for going back when you'd seen the behaviors repeat more than once; there's value there as you grieve, process the emotions and detach.

[Confusedpe]

Problem is that I love her so much
I love the thought of her and when she's trying to 'prove' to me that she wants to change it's so hard to step on your heart and not believe it

I've never felt this way about anyone before, since the day I met her I never wanted another woman, I only wanted her I thought I had found the love of my life, the person I had been waiting all my life to meet

The reality is something I can't accept in my heart even though I know it's the truth, it's a truth I'm struggling to accept

I know without a shadow of a doubt that she's a lying, manipulative, disordered person who will certainly repeat her bad behavior, in fact she will probably do worse then before as I noticed every recycle her behavior was actually more shocking and worse.

People tell me to move on, people think I'm crazy for allowing contact but I can't stop remembering that good period where she was my soul mate. I miss the good days so much and now she's being so good to me again!

I've never been so confused, I wish she had discarded me like most of the people here at least I would of have no regrets and no brain screwing

[Wanna Move On]

BPDs NEVER change!

[fromheeltoheal]

in fact she will probably do worse then before as I noticed every recycle her behavior was actually more shocking and worse.

That's because a borderline interprets a break-up as abandonment, regardless of what actually happened in the relationship, and abandonment is the worst thing that can happen for a borderline, so when you got back together the fear of abandonment was stronger, trust weaker, and that triggers the more extreme behaviors.

I've never felt this way about anyone before, since the day I met her I never wanted another woman, I only wanted her I thought I had found the love of my life, the person I had been waiting all my life to meet

I can't stop remembering that good period where she was my soul mate. I miss the good days so much and now she's being so good to me again!

So here's something cool: a borderline attaches to someone by mirroring them, by showing them the good they see in them, to create the emotional attachment yes, a borderline must have an attachment, but also to take on that good as their own; the disorder is such that a borderline is psychically fusing with someone else to create a whole person, which is not what we expect generally, what we expect is two autonomous individuals with their own selves creating a partnership between them called a relationship.  So point is that love of your life, that soul mate, might have been the good she saw in you reflected back to you, the you you've always wanted, so the person you fell in love with was yourself.  Ain't that cool?

I've never been so confused, I wish she had discarded me like most of the people here at least I would of have no regrets and no brain screwing

Revisited recycle attempts can be a good thing Confused.  As you commit to your detachment and work through the process she will have less power over you, in fact a large part of detachment is taking your power back, so contact attempts are a great way to get immediate feedback as to how your detachment is going, and with that information you can decide to change something or just stay the course.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?

[Confusedpe]

in fact she will probably do worse then before as I noticed every recycle her behavior was actually more shocking and worse.

That's because a borderline interprets a break-up as abandonment, regardless of what actually happened in the relationship, and abandonment is the worst thing that can happen for a borderline, so when you got back together the fear of abandonment was stronger, trust weaker, and that triggers the more extreme behaviors.

I've never felt this way about anyone before, since the day I met her I never wanted another woman, I only wanted her I thought I had found the love of my life, the person I had been waiting all my life to meet

I can't stop remembering that good period where she was my soul mate. I miss the good days so much and now she's being so good to me again!

So here's something cool: a borderline attaches to someone by mirroring them, by showing them the good they see in them, to create the emotional attachment yes, a borderline must have an attachment, but also to take on that good as their own; the disorder is such that a borderline is psychically fusing with someone else to create a whole person, which is not what we expect generally, what we expect is two autonomous individuals with their own selves creating a partnership between them called a relationship.  So point is that love of your life, that soul mate, might have been the good she saw in you reflected back to you, the you you've always wanted, so the person you fell in love with was yourself.  Ain't that cool?

I've never been so confused, I wish she had discarded me like most of the people here at least I would of have no regrets and no brain screwing

Revisited recycle attempts can be a good thing Confused.  As you commit to your detachment and work through the process she will have less power over you, in fact a large part of detachment is taking your power back, so contact attempts are a great way to get immediate feedback as to how your detachment is going, and with that information you can decide to change something or just stay the course.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?

I've read all this before actually especially about the borderline mimicking us hence we fall in love with ourselves

[earlgrey]

love the question... .because despite all my reading and work I still ask it myself... .

We recycled a couple of times and I got lost in the charm while it lasted, but slowly we resumed 'normal'.

I was fed up with normal (regular BPD stuff) so with much effort on my side I initated divorce, which is what is happening at present.

But because of my general optimistic outlook and indeed memories of better times which my more rational brain says  , I'm open to rekindling. There is though a bit of reality in my fantasy world and while I appreciate the charm offensive, I don't think she will be able to admit what really needs to be looked at. She is smart, got me down to a tee, and most others that we know, but when it comes to shining that very illuminating light into her own inner workings the goddam thing goes out. Nothing to see.

So my optimism takes a hit and I get a bit down... .and then stbex fires off at D7, and I realise despite my recent best efforts to spark reflection, divorce pending, nothing has changed. (the crisis that is divorce I kind of hoped might have opened new discusssions - nothing, just blame)

I suppose the other way to approach this is to make it one's mission to stay the course and see what realisations/improvements can be made. And I still consider this option (circumstances may help decisions here I'm 59 and D7 make staying not totally unreasonable) but even with circumstances in favour of a stay the levels of frustration, futility, little upside, and the dents in the wall (made by my head) make it a tough option.

Divorce is no picnic either btw... .

[Confusedpe]

Takes guts divorcing at 50-60 years old
I'm 30 not married and still attached to an ex girlfriend not even a wife

[earlgrey]

Takes guts divorcing at 50-60 years old

Thanks confused I'll happily take that as a compliment. 

I think though it is more about actually living a life that meets one's own values. Generally i'm a pushover, rarely take a stand, but fundamental choices about the quality of one's life is an item not to be overlooked IMO.

I too was struggling at 30 (1987)... .took me till 2013 to find help with bpdfamily. You are already here, you will thrive