I'm lost

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Is there a way to work with someone with this disorder? Even if they are not diagnosed? Or full blown, maybe they have traits?

My GF has traits for sure.

How do you deal with them never being wrong? Or always excusing what they do? Or putting you in a double blind situation, where your options are basically to fail, or to fail?

[Lockjaw]

Is there a way to work with someone with this disorder? Even if they are not diagnosed? Or full blown, maybe they have traits?

My GF has traits for sure.

How do you deal with them never being wrong? Or always excusing what they do? Or putting you in a double blind situation, where your options are basically to fail, or to fail?

[ampersandalz]

Hi, Lockjaw.

I find myself asking the same questions constantly.  I only found out about BPD recently and was stunned by how many of the parameters my wife meets. 

First and foremost, I think it's a good thing that you're aware of the disorder itself.  This can help with objectivity.  I hope for your sake you haven't been getting beaten down for too many years by the often painful and frustrating remarks and actions that come from a BPD partner, but even if you have, some of the best advice I've received so far is that it's never too late to change yourself.

One of the biggest mistakes I find myself making when my wife makes ridiculous claims or accusations is immediately arguing back that she is wrong -- it turns into a circular argument of invalidated feelings and who's "more right or wrong."  It gets us nowhere.  Asking questions has helped these interactions a lot for me.  I try and stay calm and ask "why do you feel that way?" when she says something I find unreasonable.  This reassures her that I'm considering her feelings and may help me better understand if I've done something to "trigger" an episode, that way the "who's wrong" argument may not have to come up at all.

With that in mind, I think it's extremely important to stand your ground and not simply "comply."  I feel odd saying this because being honest, it's pretty difficult advice to follow and I'm still trying to get the courage and resiliency to follow it in my daily life, but you have to seek your own happiness and strength first.  Be confident in your decisions.  I spent so much time wanting to be "the nice guy" and cater to her every need that I lost a huge part of myself and I wouldn't wish that on anyone (or any of the thoughts that come with it).  It's bad for you AND for her - no relationship can thrive under that type of pressure.

Lastly, and this is what I've been trying my best to wrap my head around... .if you can't win in any situation, think of it as less pressure overall.  If you're not doing anything wrong, you're not doing anything wrong.  Be courteous, be respectful, but again, own your decisions and don't sacrifice your hobbies or choices simply to reaffirm her comfort.  Reaffirming your partner's comfort all day, everyday, is not your job -- nor is it a safe relationship.

I'm new to this whole thing, so I guess take my comments with a grain of salt, but I'm trying my hardest to fix my relationship and being here, amongst people who understand and want to help has been really helpful.

[Lockjaw]

Mine has this beautifully constructed defense mechanism. If I have a problem with her, I am supposed to tell her face to face. There can be no messaging or phone calls, or texts. Has to be face to face. In the meantime, until that occurs, and it could be a couple days, I am supposed to carry on as normal. Text her like I normally do, call her like I do, etc. And of course, once she apologizes, then whatever she did is off limits for later discussion.

Here is how I work. When something happens that bothers me, I go through a process of determining if its worth mentioning. So until I get to a yes answer that is a week or more out, as in, in a week, this will still bother me, I don't say anything. Now if I get fussed at for doing something that she does that I have let go, then I point out that she does it too. That is "storing up ammo". But if I bring it up immediately, she is "under a microscope".

I told her one day I needed a GF, not a manager. She was offended. She is trying to help me after all. She says I can't take criticism, and I said, oh yes I can, my best friend can tell me anything, he just does it well. He tells asks me if I want his opinion, he tells me I won't like it, and that I can tell him to shut up at anytime. Then he LOVINGLY tells me. It never comes across judgemental or condescending. What I get from her is "I NEED" to do XYZ. I hate hearing I need and told her so.

I have learned her fear is abandonment. I found this thing on line that has a question you can ask them that diffuses their defensiveness, but she figured that out. She is Ms. Google. It was funny when I asked her, and it confused her. She didn't know how to respond to it. But then she says I don't talk that way so she knew I had found it online.

She won't see a therapist either.

I am just a big fairness doctrine kind of person. We average an argument, usually over something really dumb, on a weekly basis. And most all are from her saying something that is offensive. I have done something wrong. And she has no concept of boundaries.

I am not perfect. I have my own issues and I get it.

[ampersandalz]

That third paragraph rings true for me, as well.  She told me recently that I'm far too defensive and she shouldn't have to ask me to do things more than once, so I said if she wants things done, she needs to understand that her asking me does not mean I have to get up and do XYZ the moment she asks -- I also said that I don't appreciate being talked to like a parent would talk to their child.  I am your husband, not your son.  She has said to me that I take her criticism "too personally," but the fact is that she's simply too critical.  I have close friends that have doled out any number of hard truths to me and because they do it with love and understanding, I don't take offense.  I have advised that if I come off defensive, it is simply because I find the way she approaches things to be offensive -- her response was "well, you know that's how I am, don't take it so personally." 

I have also suggested therapy, but she lives in a world where she is the best judge of what she (or anyone else) needs.  She says she won't bother because she doesn't have the time and they'll just tell her things "she already knows."

We used to argue over little things, things that I look back and find more absurd, but I always said "hey, she's a few years younger, it'll pass."  Now we argue weekly -- some have been heated, almost violent, loud and disruptive and usually begin and end with me saying I'm a worthless sack of garbage and I'm terribly sorry for what I've done to her life.

[Lockjaw]

WOW, have you been a fly on my wall?

Do you know how good it feels just to know I am not alone? I mean really.

The thing I have the hardest time with is that mine cannot see things from another persons perspective. She can be stone cold WRONG, but she finds some reason she isn't.

I said you give me nothing but fail options. She said, sometimes the win is the train not jumping the tracks. It can still hit the semi tanker truck on the tracks and blow to bits and have a toxic hazmat situation, but hey, that's a win. Chalk one up for the gipper!

I tried to get her to understand that the reason I am so frustrated is because its the same thing over and over. It starts with her saying something usually. I wish I was more of a water off a ducks back kind of person. She is like, well I apologized. Ok fine, but dang... .its groundhog day over and over again. Who wouldn't get frustrated.

Just so ya'll know, if you haven't seen it, the phrase I found is this. " When you said that, it seemed like you think I did something wrong".

You can adjust it to you said something wrong. And you have to say it pretty much exactly like that. Its such a wormy innocuous statement, it defeats their defense mechanism. I plagarized it too. Some other therapist came up with it. She says usually the person will then end up telling you what they are really upset about.

Most of what I have seen says to try not to take it personally, but its really really hard.

[ampersandalz]

The most important part of my short time spent here is the feeling that I am not alone. 

My situations have gone past things being said to me that are just wrong, they have turned into statements that actually morph the past as it happened.  I have very little patience for that (and I am working on it!), but in those situations I find myself almost laughing out loud, my eyes wide, simply saying "you know that didn't even happen, right?"  She takes that as me, yet again, refusing to "take responsibility for my actions" and "taking advantage of her bad memory."  It always just turns into her looking at me like I'm absolutely insane -- the last episode of this preempted me finding out about BPD and I felt terrified and comforted all at once as soon as I did.

I've detailed it in my own post here, but the worst part for me is the fear accompanying my doing anything outside of the house (sans work).  If I want to go out to an event, go out of town with friends, etc. it is often met with "yeah, that sounds like a great idea" up until it actually happens.  I am expected to provide constant updates on my goings on and whereabouts and if I don't respond (or at least respond favorably) I am either "being sketchy" or "ignoring her."  I can't even spend two hours in the next room without her making off-handed comments about me ignoring her and not wanting to be around her and it's even more frustrating because now she knows to say it in a joking tone (but she still won't let up) so I can't get mad.  That's a common defense mechanism if I take offense to something.  "Oh come on, I was just joking, what's your problem?"

[Lockjaw]

Oh here is a good one. She had a door in her basement that needed to be replaced, and it wasn't a standard door, so we had to go find it, and bought a new one with the jamb and everything. I measured it and the door was the right size and everything.

We get it back to her house and while I am messing with it, I pulled it out of my truck and tried to put it in the hole. It didn't fit because the brick mold was a little to wide. So she comes down there and goes, why isn't the door in there. I said its to wide. She didn't believe me. She didn't believe my Lufkin tape measure was right. Had to get hers. Then was mad because she asked me to measure it 3 times, and I did. She had a come apart before I could explain to her all we had to do was pull the brick mold off and put the door in and then put brick mold back on.

Oh no, I had to put the door in the jamb so she could see for herself. She kept trying to force it in, and I said, its 1/4 inch off. She just didn't get it. I said, you need to understand how home improvement works. Nothing is exact. So anyway, she gets mad and storms off and I am putting the door in. I have it hung and screwed to one side and am working on shimming it and she comes down and goes " that edge is off. Why is that edge off? Shouldn't it be even?

I was like do you think I don't know that? Do you think I can't see that? Rather than blessing me out and questioning what I am doing, how about youtubing hanging a door? Well she was just "trying to help". So I was sent home. But I finished hanging the door and got it to close. Then she messed with it and was complaining that it didn't close properly. I said, well it was closing fine when I left.

Or this one. I cut her yard one day, with the mower in mulch mode. That leaves lines, and  l like it to look nice, so I get the blower out and am spreading the lines out. As I am walking towards the house, she comes running out all in a tizz because " I am blowing grass clippings into the flower beds". Had she watched, she would have seen I already blew the grass away from the beds and would only come towards the house so far before I stopped and went back towards the street. But again, she was only trying to help. I am 49. I worked for a landscaping company for a couple years when I was young.

[Lockjaw]

The most important part of my short time spent here is the feeling that I am not alone. 

My situations have gone past things being said to me that are just wrong, they have turned into statements that actually morph the past as it happened.  I have very little patience for that (and I am working on it!), but in those situations I find myself almost laughing out loud, my eyes wide, simply saying "you know that didn't even happen, right?"  She takes that as me, yet again, refusing to "take responsibility for my actions" and "taking advantage of her bad memory."  It always just turns into her looking at me like I'm absolutely insane -- the last episode of this preempted me finding out about BPD and I felt terrified and comforted all at once as soon as I did.

I've detailed it in my own post here, but the worst part for me is the fear accompanying my doing anything outside of the house (sans work).  If I want to go out to an event, go out of town with friends, etc. it is often met with "yeah, that sounds like a great idea" up until it actually happens.  I am expected to provide constant updates on my goings on and whereabouts and if I don't respond (or at least respond favorably) I am either "being sketchy" or "ignoring her."  I can't even spend two hours in the next room without her making off-handed comments about me ignoring her and not wanting to be around her and it's even more frustrating because now she knows to say it in a joking tone (but she still won't let up) so I can't get mad.  That's a common defense mechanism if I take offense to something.  "Oh come on, I was just joking, what's your problem?"

That is her fear of abandonment.

You have more power than you think. The last big blow up we had, she went to my house to get her "$#@!". She was mad because I didn't want to argue with her while I was eating a meal in a restaurant. She kept blowing up my phone. When I showed up finally, it got ugly in a hurry, so I just left. I just walked out, got in my truck and left. I went down the road to a business and pulled off and just sat there. She called and begged me to come back. I said why? What is the point. Just get your stuff and go. She didn't want to do that.

I personally think they like fighting and conflict. They like to cross examine.

I can tell mine I don't want to argue about it while I am working, she will blow up my phone. She will cut off facebook messenger and then text me instead. She stalks me on facebook too.

That was another fight. If I like a woman's comment, then I am leading her on. If she says my name, lord help me. That was a fight too. I happened to like something this woman said on a page. And it was a few back and forth comments, kind of like here, but short. She was getting the wrong message. I never said one word about how she looked, I never used her name in what I said. But I was leading her on. I said, what about the other woman that used my name in a comment and the guy, was I leading them on too? Did they want me? Were they hitting on me? Crickets... .LOL!

I am learning to just walk away. Right now she is mad and says I am punishing her. She told me to go home. She told me not to call, yet I am punishing her by not calling her. I am waiting for her to tell me how exactly.

Ask you wife the question next time like I listed it, and watch her face. It may be the most fun you get to have, until she catches on.

[Lockjaw]

Oh wait I thought of another one.

I had a promo bundle on my internet, tv and phone right. SO when it expired and they wanted to jack up my rates, I called them and said give me back my deal or I will switch to another company. So we go back and forth, and finally say, nope take a hike, and switched.

Oh heck no. She had to call them, because after all, she got them to give her what she wanted. Well they wouldn't for me, even after she badgered them for over an hour. So now, all I hear about is how the internet is slower than before. Blah blah blah. I said wait til the put fiber in here, and see what happens.

But what is funny is I can run my pc side by side with hers, and mine runs faster. I can test the speed, mine is always faster, but mine is a POS compared to hers, if you ask her.

So I said, if you want, I will just call and get internet from them, and keep my tv and phone with what I have. Oh no, don't do that for me. I said if it will make you be quiet its worth it. NOPE!

There is no right way. If I would have kept old one and paid 1 cent more, I would have heard about it. There is no way to win, no way. Not one.

[ampersandalz]

I can definitely understand the frustration -- I constantly find myself in situations where I feel as if I'm doing all I can to get a matter taken care of and regardless of my efforts, she'll just insist that I'm not handling it properly and try and do it herself.

I will say, though, that one thing I've had to keep in mind (and it is sometimes easy to get carried away in my frustrations, especially when I'm out of the house and the bad brings itself to the forefront) is that this is indeed the woman I love.  We've spent many great years together and just because things are rocky, I'm trying my hardest to remember that her unkind words and irrational moments are merely a symptom of a bigger issue, something entirely out of my control. 

It may sound silly and sentimental, but when I'm feeling my worse, I look back at photos of our best moments and they remind me of who she is and how we've been able to get so far together.  We have a lot of outside stressors in both of our lives, so that certainly doesn't make things easy.  Maybe I am less patient or more defensive because of those stressors, maybe her frustrations are not all BPD and simply the things that build up during the day, but remembering that I love her and care about her makes me feel less hopeless in the whole thing.  In my mind, all I hope for is a time in the future that we can look back and say "we got through all that, now look where we are," you know?  Just imparting some positive thoughts I'm working with this morning.

[Lockjaw]

That is only reason I haven't just said bye Felicia to her. She says no one is ever there for her, and I want to just shake her and go, do you think its YOU?