What is the purpose of forcing me to call instead of text?

[Flexion]

Okay, I have a uBPDw that has been very very abusive through text messages. I have implemented boundaries for our house and text messages. If she abuses (e.g calls names, devalues, etc) I will go stay with friends. The text bombs have subsided, but  she has also filed for a divorce. On one hand, I have done what I felt was right as far as boundaries. However, to the BPD, that caused major issues.

NOw, we have still been texting. Pics of our son and general convo. Up until yesterday when I sent her a pic of our son. NO response. I sent a text about her ingoring positive things. Then I sent a text asking her to let me know she was ok. When she got home, she said "I don't have to respond!" 

Today, she text bombed me with abuse. I returned the text and said show those to your therapist( I know). Said to only call her if  Iwanted to talk, but do not text.  This afternoon, I text her that I would be picking up our son, etc. She immediately replied "I told you to call. Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing.  I view it as it can actually help, because she text bombs me so much.

Anyhow, any input on why she would be so adiment to NOT text? Is it because of the legal stuff? Thanks

[MapleBob]

There may be an element in her request of "oh crap, text messages that aren't deleted can be admissible," but it might also just be her trying to set some kind of boundary. If you call she can also not pick up and more effectively shut you out, if that's her angle.

[livednlearned]

Are you hoping to turn the divorce around?

I sent a text about her ingoring positive things.

I wonder if she interpreted this as "BPDw, you're doing it wrong."

Texting comes up a lot on the Coparenting board because couples that are no longer together have to coordinate for the kids. Some parents opt to go to a very structured email system because texting can be so invasive. The only way to make this work is to create the boundary and make no exceptions.

Anyhow, any input on why she would be so adiment to NOT text? Is it because of the legal stuff? Thanks

What would happen if you asked her directly?

[once removed]

hey jaxfitguy  

i think its important to remember that you are both entitled to boundaries. it sounds to me like shes unhappy with yours, so she decided to set some of her own. when she didnt respond, you sent (jumped) a text about her ignoring positive things, followed by asking (perceived as telling) her to let you know she was ok. these are perceived as demands and they kind of are.

so she texts you with abuse and instead of going to stay with friends (your stated boundary) you reacted. she stated no more texting, you texted.

im not trying to beat up on you here, just to remind you that boundaries are a two way street. its likely that shes going to react to your boundaries with some tit for tat, so expect that. maplebob is right that she can just as easily not answer the phone and that might be where things are heading. she may even apply a double standard and continue to text bomb you when she feels like it. its up to you to decide how to respond or whether to react, especially if she isnt reachable when youre letting her know youre picking up your son; she could get unreasonable.

in the short term, respect her boundaries (they are to some extent probably a need to retake control of the situation; i doubt theres much more to telling you not to text) and follow through on your own

[wanttoknowmore]

pwBPD prefer texting to phone calls when they are not feeling emotionally well.  Texting is the lowest form of communication as its easy to hide and fake emotions.

She might be fully depressed but can text "I am fine and dandy... LOL" ;  pwBPDs mostly like texting also because they can control what they say to manipulate the other.

[HopefulDad]

Pick your battles.  If she doesn't want you texting, then don't.  That being said... .

You do need to establish a reliable way to communicate about issues regarding your son.  Reliable and consistent is even better.  Personally, I'm a big fan of text/email for the paper trail.  If she insists on phone calls for this, work with her and agree to do so... .until she starts lying about what was spoken.  At that point, you need to insist on text/email and if she refuses, take it up with your divorce lawyers, mediator and/or judge if needed.  Of course when you discuss the subject with her, don't accuse her of lying, but rather state that you each have your own separate recollection of what was spoken so the texting/emailing is needed to clear this up.

[Grey Kitty]

Anyhow, any input on why she would be so adiment to NOT text?

I don't know... .but I would guess that what she is doing is an attempt at matching your boundary enforcement actions.

There is a subtle point of boundary enforcement (like not responding to an abusive string of text bombing). The proper and healthy way to do it is to take action (not responding or even not reading the texts) as a way to protect yourself from the abuse.

It is possible to do something very similar where you are taking action to punish the other person or to change their behavior. The difference in intention is critical, especially because the action taken (not responding to texts) may well be the same.

Anyhow, I would guess that she is upset at your boundary enforcement against her text bombing. She's probably feeling attacked or persecuted by it, and feels justified in doing the same to you.

... .but whatever the reason she chose to do it, as HopefulDad said, pick your battles, and this one doesn't seem worth fighting right now.

[C.Stein]

Anyhow, any input on why she would be so adiment to NOT text?

Perhaps she feels she can manipulate you more effectively by talking to you?  This may or may not be consciously known by her.  What do you think?

[Flexion]

Anyhow, any input on why she would be so adiment to NOT text?

Perhaps she feels she can manipulate you more effectively by talking to you?  This may or may not be consciously known by her.  What do you think?

Here is a funny story. .

All of this was hogwash. SHe text bombed me the next day with ~50 texts.  From her, nothing positive. But, she ignored positive engagements.

I don't think it was boundaries. I think she might be trying to force us to actually talk about things, instead of her hiding behind texts?

what you think?

[C.Stein]

Talking things out face to face is always the preferred method as long as it is constructive. 

[livednlearned]

What was the nature of your positive engagements to her?

Maybe we can help you understand what is happening in the communication. It is often not intuitive.

[hope2727]

Words of wisdom from both a psychologist and lawyer... .always email if that is not possible text... .if that is not possible speak with a neutral 3rd party present.

She doesn't want written evidence. Let her text her heart out. Just screen shot print and email copies to yourself to keep an accurate record in 3 safe places for future reference. Then totally ignore the bad ones.

[Flexion]

What was the nature of your positive engagements to her?

Maybe we can help you understand what is happening in the communication. It is often not intuitive.

A good example happened today. I left last night, due to an entire day of text bombs, which were very abusive. That, along with the fact that she treats me like I have the plague at home. Such hatred.

Anyhow, as she text bombed last night, I said "Good night! I will  be there to pick up L!" That meant that  I would pick up my son and take him to school. Now, I told her earlier in the day that  I would not have a permanent schedule until next week. But, I usually let her know when I can take him or pick him up.

So, when I came in the door this morning, she says "there's da da!" SO I took him into his room to get him dressed. She comes in and starts on me how that my communication sucks, I'm a fuc*king idiot... .blah blah blah. I tried to close the door, but she pushed me, so  I walked outside for a minute. I almost left, but I knew my son was upset.  As I came back up to the house, she was on the phone  with her boss (same lady last week she didnt' trust. called her sketchy, etc.) and had the "sweet innocent M voice.' at this point, I am upset. she's yelling at me, calling me a 'fuc*ing idiot, and telling me her boss said I was out of line. WOW LIVID!

I continued and got our son ready and took him to school.

I came home around 3 ( usually do) and she was home(should be working). NOt sure? I stayed in the car until  I seen her come out. I went in and noticed a bowl on the dresser with hot pizza in it. I knew she wanted it.  I decided take it and put it in her car and text her it was in there, as her work is across the road from where I conduct business. I drove through the parking lot and noticed she wasn't at work. Probably therapy. So, I text her what  I done and I had the pizza on me(because she wasn't there).

She ignores anything positive like that. However, she blows me up with abuse and I ignore that. SO, NO COMMUNICATION!

[livednlearned]

What would you like to accomplish in your relationship with her?

I get why you would feel frustrated when you do something positive, and it doesn't prevent her getting angry at you. It's as though your good task is forgotten in the moment when she is upset or angry about something else. Which I guess is how it is for many of us? and especially for people who have a hard time regulating emotions.

The interaction with her in the morning sounds very stressful. Does she respond to validation?

[Flexion]

What would you like to accomplish in your relationship with her?

I get why you would feel frustrated when you do something positive, and it doesn't prevent her getting angry at you. It's as though your good task is forgotten in the moment when she is upset or angry about something else. Which I guess is how it is for many of us? and especially for people who have a hard time regulating emotions.

The interaction with her in the morning sounds very stressful. Does she respond to validation?

Thank you all for the responses.

I have tried the validation. That will definitely just get me a quick kick in the teeth! She is just that nasty. Never seen such a thing. We can not have one issue at hand, but she is so bitter and mean.

I think I have resorted to just avoiding her until she moves out.

I would love to salvage our marriage for our son and I do love her(even though she doesn't believe that).

[C.Stein]

I have tried the validation.

Maybe try a different approach, more practice?  Something, anything to prevent the arguing and raging in front of your son.

[Grey Kitty]

I have tried the validation. That will definitely just get me a quick kick in the teeth! She is just that nasty. Never seen such a thing. We can not have one issue at hand, but she is so bitter and mean.

Two possibilities come to mind here... .one is that she just is that mean and nasty, and you are going to end up divorced no matter what.

The other is that you either didn't do validation as well as you thought, or weren't ready for it yet. Here's when and how to bring validation in:

1. Practice and learn boundary enforcement to get yourself (and dependent children if needed) out of emotionally and/or verbally abusive situations.

2. Make sure that you are not doing or saying unnecessarily invalidating things to her. Make sure you aren't JADEing.

*NOTE* If you are talking to her and 99% of it is very validating, but 1% invalidation sneaks in somehow, the whole validation is tainted and won't work. You wouldn't tell her "You are really beautiful, except for that thing on your nose" ... .

3. Validation of her feelings when she is already hopping mad at you is olympic level validation. Don't expect to be able to nail this one the first dozen times you try. Try to validate her during relatively peaceful times first--it is more likely to work.

Can you share in detail an attempt you made at validation that went bad? We might be able to help you do it better.

[Flexion]

I have tried the validation. That will definitely just get me a quick kick in the teeth! She is just that nasty. Never seen such a thing. We can not have one issue at hand, but she is so bitter and mean.

Two possibilities come to mind here... .one is that she just is that mean and nasty, and you are going to end up divorced no matter what.

The other is that you either didn't do validation as well as you thought, or weren't ready for it yet. Here's when and how to bring validation in:

1. Practice and learn boundary enforcement to get yourself (and dependent children if needed) out of emotionally and/or verbally abusive situations.

2. Make sure that you are not doing or saying unnecessarily invalidating things to her. Make sure you aren't JADEing.

*NOTE* If you are talking to her and 99% of it is very validating, but 1% invalidation sneaks in somehow, the whole validation is tainted and won't work. You wouldn't tell her "You are really beautiful, except for that thing on your nose" ... .

3. Validation of her feelings when she is already hopping mad at you is olympic level validation. Don't expect to be able to nail this one the first dozen times you try. Try to validate her during relatively peaceful times first--it is more likely to work.

Can you share in detail an attempt you made at validation that went bad? We might be able to help you do it better.

I have tried the validation. That will definitely just get me a quick kick in the teeth! She is just that nasty. Never seen such a thing. We can not have one issue at hand, but she is so bitter and mean.

Two possibilities come to mind here... .one is that she just is that mean and nasty, and you are going to end up divorced no matter what.

The other is that you either didn't do validation as well as you thought, or weren't ready for it yet. Here's when and how to bring validation in:

1. Practice and learn boundary enforcement to get yourself (and dependent children if needed) out of emotionally and/or verbally abusive situations.

2. Make sure that you are not doing or saying unnecessarily invalidating things to her. Make sure you aren't JADEing.

*NOTE* If you are talking to her and 99% of it is very validating, but 1% invalidation sneaks in somehow, the whole validation is tainted and won't work. You wouldn't tell her "You are really beautiful, except for that thing on your nose" ... .

3. Validation of her feelings when she is already hopping mad at you is olympic level validation. Don't expect to be able to nail this one the first dozen times you try. Try to validate her during relatively peaceful times first--it is more likely to work.

Can you share in detail an attempt you made at validation that went bad? We might be able to help you do it better.

One example is when she is raging, I will say "babe, I just love you! That's it!" and walk away. She will say, "you are a lying piece of sh*t." or is some form of that .

I have tried the "joking" way as well. When she is raging, once I said " does this mean sex is out tonight?" I laughed out loud to display my lightheartedness . again, as she knew I was joking, she raged again about how that is all I think about! . NOt true, but that is her  reality.

[C.Stein]

One example is when she is raging, I will say "babe, I just love you! That's it!" and walk away. She will say, "you are a lying piece of sh*t." or is some form of that .

I have tried the "joking" way as well. When she is raging, once I said " does this mean sex is out tonight?" I laughed out loud to display my lightheartedness . again, as she knew I was joking, she raged again about how that is all I think about! . NOt true, but that is her  reality.

I think both of these will be seen as being dismissive and invalidating.

[Grey Kitty]

One example is when she is raging, I will say "babe, I just love you! That's it!" and walk away. She will say, "you are a lying piece of sh*t." or is some form of that .

I have tried the "joking" way as well. When she is raging, once I said " does this mean sex is out tonight?" I laughed out loud to display my lightheartedness . again, as she knew I was joking, she raged again about how that is all I think about! . NOt true, but that is her  reality.

What you are doing there is pretty reasonable as far as boundary enforcement -- removing yourself quickly from raging and verbal abuse.

Ex: 1. She is angry at you, not feeling loved by you. So you telling her you love her is actually invalidating.

Ex: 2. This is actually closer to being validating--it is acknowledging that she is angry with you right now. It is also teasing her, which is still kinda invalidating to her anger... .as before, she is feeling angry.

Those are times I wouldn't even try to validate.

First off, enforcing a boundary is intrinsically invalidating, so that will spoil any validation you attempt at the time. She is angry at you, and wants to rage at you. Removing yourself so she cannot do that is invalidating... .

Second, if you wanted to validate her, you need to do it while you are still feeling compassionate and caring, not when you, yourself are getting flooded with negative emotions. (And that is exactly why you chose to enforce that boundary at the time.)

Third, as I said before, validation when she is that angry at YOU is olympic level validation. Even people who are really good at it expect it to fail more often than it suceeds.

[livednlearned]

Second, if you wanted to validate her, you need to do it while you are still feeling compassionate and caring, not when you, yourself are getting flooded with negative emotions.

Do you have moments together when you are both able to feel close and caring?

If so, that is also a time to bring up how you feel about the fighting, and explain how you are going to enforce a boundary and why (to protect yourself, to protect your son).

And to be clear that it's about protecting you, not punishing her.

[Hmcbart]

Jax, I was reading your posts and realized how similar our situations are.  Not sure if the answer to your main question was answered, "why does she want you to call instead of text?"  I am not sure if my answer helps any or not but this is what I'm slowly learning.  There are no real emotions conveyed in text form. I think someone even mentioned that one.  But it's a big reason in my book.  They are all about emotion and without the ability to show it and in some cases use it to get what they want, they don't want to do it. I've learned that with my wife over the years.  I started texting a lot to help me come out of the FOG.  I wouldn't really remember something I did or didn't say and always assumed I said what ever she told me I said.  Now I can look back at a conversation and see exactly what I did say.  The other reason I like it is because it does keep a written record of things she has said to me.  

That being said, when she is raging (like 3 days ago) she will try and get me to talk instead of text.  I will speak with her until she starts beating me up verbally, then I tell her I can't talk to her when's she's doing this and I hang up.  

I would love more than anything to be able to have an actual verbal conversation about our marriage.  Unfortunately when it's a topic that triggers her (affection, sex, intimacy) we can't speak about it without her blowing up. Sadly that makes any chance of a real productive conversation a mute point.  

I'm still learning to validate as you are and I do fail miserably most days but I'm trying.  It is hard to do, especially when your already armored up set for battle. I get told I'm speaking down to her or acting like I'm better than her.  

I don't know if anything I wrote helped or if it is the same as what the others have said but I hope it does.  Will it make things easier, maybe not right now, but in the long run. Maybe not with her but possibly with someone else in the future if that's how things end up.

[BrokenButterfly]

pwBPD prefer texting to phone calls when they are not feeling emotionally well.  Texting is the lowest form of communication as its easy to hide and fake emotions.

She might be fully depressed but can text "I am fine and dandy... LOL" ;  pwBPDs mostly like texting also because they can control what they say to manipulate the other.

Yes, you have summed up my husband EXACTLY.

In his case he suffers from avoidant personality disorder as well.  Actually the avoidant personality disorder is his primary problem even more so than the BPD.  Texting means he doesn't have to face issues he's avoiding.  Same as going non-contact, ending the conversation and walking away when face to face (without any warning).  Even when we have serious issues that need discussion, he will not discuss them.

For my husband, refusing to take calls and insisting only texts or communication via other people, is just his way to be manipulative and control the situation.  He doesn't have to face the damage he has done to me and our children when  he has done something abusive and controlling, especially when it's something that hurts the kids.

He also uses texting precisely because it's written (and therefore recorded) to manipulate how other people will see the situation.  I know I'm not perfect and after having survived one marriage for nearly a decade to a severe BPD sufferer, my patience for abusive behaviour caused by BPD  is not endless.  He knows he can abuse me on the phone and then turn off calls on his phone and up until recently I've made the mistake of texting him back the impact he has had on the kids. And he then uses that to convince people I'm the bad guy because there are no texts from him, because all of the things he has called me (full of swear words so I won't repeat them) have been said verbally.

He likes to "hit and run" as I describe it. Verbally abuse in person or on the phone, and then block calls (and take off if it was in person).  And he specifically targets situations in which ignoring him altogether is not an option as he controls all our money.

When he does text, he is extremely careful to write in such a way to manipulate things to make it sound like he is the victim.  So I decided enough is enough, and I refuse to take texts from him.  You can set it up on my phone in such a way that you can get phone calls but not texts from a person.  As I have said to him - if he is too immature and selfish to speak verbally, where he has to hear the effects he is having on the kids  and I with his abusive controlling behaviour and where he doesn't have time to come up with something too manipulative (ie in texts he has time to reword things to make him sound like the good guy and me the bad guy), well then I'm not interested in talking to him.   Yes there are negative effects, but it's better than putting up with the abuse from him and then him manipulating others into thinking I'm the bad guy for texting him that his abusive behaviour is not okay. 

Some pwBPD do prefer texts because it gets them out of facing the consequences of their borderline behaviours