Bit of an epiphany last night

[Annie99]

I saw my T. yesterday, want to get off the sleeping pills. He helped me with some meditation which didnt help much with the sleep but I did have a bit of an ephipany last night. This is pretty simple and probably seems obvious to a lot of you.

I have been struggling with how my husband, who was always a truthful, ethical person, could ever do the things he had done: lie, emotional affair, prostitutes. We have two beautiful boys and i know he loves our family very much. I've been struggling with urgent feelings that something has to be done... .and quickly. I need to leave, or he needs to get into therapy on and on - my mind does this stuff all night. And hardest of all was I knew deep inside that I loved this man that had done these terrible things that were completely against my values (and his as I had known him).

While meditating last night, I realized I did love him, which I suppose is the definition of unconditional love i.e. love him in spite of all the nasty things he has done. And I realized that is okay, in fact it's good. The love is unconditional.  The conditional part is the relationship. So its okay to love him, but I cant stay in the relationship as it is. So Im not sleeping with him, and indeed I may leave one day. Because realationships have to have conditions. But its okay to love unconditionally. And I can take my time to where I am at peace with any decision I make. 

Sounds very simple I know, but it took a lot of angst to get to this place.

[VitaminC]

And hardest of all was I knew deep inside that I loved this man that had done these terrible things that were completely against my values (and his as I had known him).

While meditating last night, I realized I did love him, which I suppose is the definition of unconditional love i.e. love him in spite of all the nasty things he has done. And I realized that is okay, in fact it's good. The love is unconditional.  The conditional part is the relationship. So its okay to love him, but I cant stay in the relationship as it is. So Im not sleeping with him, and indeed I may leave one day. Because relationships have to have conditions. But its okay to love unconditionally. And I can take my time to where I am at peace with any decision I make. 

Sounds very simple I know, but it took a lot of angst to get to this place.

How simple is E=MC² ? Distillation is never simple.

The love is unconditional.  The conditional part is the relationship.
Because relationships have to have conditions

Beautiful.

[westexy]

Beautiful. And helpful. Thank you. 

[Hmcbart]

All I can say is wow. I don't have an emoji for mind blown but I need one. Thanks for posting that. 

[Reforming]

Hi Annie,

I'm sorry that things are so tough right now. I've always been slightly cynical about epiphanies but in the middle of the all the pain, confusion and rubble you've managed to find remarkable insight.

I saw my T. yesterday, want to get off the sleeping pills. He helped me with some meditation which didnt help much with the sleep but I did have a bit of an ephipany last night. This is pretty simple and probably seems obvious to a lot of you.

I have been struggling with how my husband, who was always a truthful, ethical person, could ever do the things he had done: lie, emotional affair, prostitutes. We have two beautiful boys and i know he loves our family very much. I've been struggling with urgent feelings that something has to be done... .and quickly. I need to leave, or he needs to get into therapy on and on - my mind does this stuff all night. And hardest of all was I knew deep inside that I loved this man that had done these terrible things that were completely against my values (and his as I had known him).

Trying to reconcile the the good and (newly discovered) bad in a person we love deeply is so hard. Our entire world view is torn asunder.

While meditating last night, I realized I did love him, which I suppose is the definition of unconditional love i.e. love him in spite of all the nasty things he has done. And I realized that is okay, in fact it's good. The love is unconditional.  The conditional part is the relationship. So its okay to love him, but I cant stay in the relationship as it is. So Im not sleeping with him, and indeed I may leave one day. Because realationships have to have conditions. But its okay to love unconditionally. And I can take my time to where I am at peace with any decision I make.  

Sounds very simple I know, but it took a lot of angst to get to this place.

I don't think it's simple at all. It takes some of us years to reach that conclusion.

We need conditions in our relationships to protect us and keep us safe. If we love someone in a way that hurts us we're not loving ourselves and it can eat into our self esteem and sense of self.

I think you're showing extraordinary wisdom. Whatever happens next if you let it guide you you'll end up in a good place.

Thanks for sharing

Reforming


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[Lucky Jim]

Hey Annie, Well said.  Right, I agree: relationships require conditions, i.e., boundaries, without which one runs the risk of becoming a doormat, particularly in a BPD r/s.  As I like to say, love is one thing, but being the victim of abuse is another!  For this reason, I don't subscribe to unconditional love to the extent that it provides a justification for abuse.

LuckyJim

[Kelli Cornett]

There are endless things that are confusing, painful and tormenting about BPD r/s. One of them is, who is it that we really loved?

It's usually based on the premise that we love/loved the person we initially met and fell in love with. With pwBPD that person we met during the idealization phase was mirroring what they saw coming from us, and that's why it seemed like such a perfect love and that person felt like our true soulmate.

What most people come to find out when they finally come out the other side of their BPD r/s (and is just another crazymaking part of these r/s) is that they never really knew their partner at all (after all their partner has no true sense of self, so they don't even know who they are themselves), so it makes them question the love they felt for their partner and the love they thought they were receiving.

[icky]

. The love is unconditional.  The conditional part is the relationship. Because realationships have to have conditions. But its okay to love unconditionally. Sounds very simple I know, but it took a lot of angst to get to this place. .

. annie, that is an amazing insight  : ). you've put in into words so beautifully. i will use your epihphany to explain this concept to my BPD partner, who badgers me constantly, saying that if i make our relationship conditional, that's proof that i don't love him (unconditionally). thank you so much for this valuable contribution of yours. keep meditating! : ). maybe there'll be more insights like this : ). and yeah, i know how much angst is involved in getting to these insights. well done.  Hi!

[icky]

i dunno if we're allowed to share/ recommend resources here, but for sleep issues i found steven gurgevich's "deep sleep with medical hypnosis" cd incredibly helpful (available on audible.com etc). also, i overcame 20+ years of insomnia with the help of the free website insomnialand.com . i have to say it was because of the excellent information available there and the fantastic fellow insomnia suffers that were hanging out in the forum at the same time - we really helped each other do the insomnia work and recover from it. i'm still sleeping GREAT 4 years later : ). (i wouldn't bother buying the audio stuff that's available on the website tho - i tried it and found it made zero difference). it's the information and the support available on the website that helps you identify your insomnia issues and overcome the anxiety-patterns involved re falling asleep

[Notwendy]

I think we can have conditions on relationships. Even marriage vows are conditions. One is to be faithful.

Unconditional love is often confused with being OK with whatever the other person does and agreeing with what the other person wants. I think the closest form of unconditional love is between a parent and a child. It is a given that the parent loves the child, but sometimes that love means doing what is in the best interest of that child, not what the child wants. A child might want candy for dinner, but the parent will say "no" because of unconditional love. The child on the other hand may cry and say "if you loved me you'd let me have candy".

Your husband may say " if you loved me, you'd take me back, even if I continue to cheat on you" but it isn't in his best interest to allow him to break his marriage vows. Unconditional love also means valuing you- your feelings, your values. Somehow we seem to forget that we need to have unconditional love for ourselves.

People have all kinds of deal breakers and conditions for choosing a marriage partner. One person's choices may not be someone else's. Someone may only want to be married to someone from their own religion. Someone may only want to be married to someone who does not drink, or smoke. We choose a partner according to our values.

I think it is important for you to be clear on your conditions for a marriage. If one of them is being faithful, then you can make that a condition. However, we have to be aware that people make their own choices. One can not marry an atheist and expect that person to convert to their religion, or marry a smoker and expect that person to quit when married. People get to choose, be, who they are.

You can request that your husband be faithful but you not make your husband not cheat if he chooses to. All you can do is be clear about what you will do about that.

[forgump]

Who is it that we really loved?

I've thought so much about this. I wondered where is the person that I knew? Where did she go? How could this have happened? Was she ever there?

We would all like to think that behind all our exhibited behaviors and choices, there is some immovable thing called a person. But in reality every person has beliefs, values and behaviors that evolve and shift over time. These changes are much more radical and sudden in pwBPD. This perspective doesn't give me a clear answer on who is it that I loved, but it gives me a little more peace about the life I spent with my wife. As fleeting as her personality may seem during our marriage, that's who she was at the time, and -- unless she chooses to accept treatment and thereby find a more stable basis of personality -- she will continue in her evolving and shifting. At this point, I don't think she herself knows very well who she is. She is on a road to discover herself.